12-21-17 07:40 PM
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  1. panopticon's Avatar
    The SoC is a design CHOICE. The KEYᵒⁿᵉ could have been given an 835 and another 1GB of memory and sold for the price of the Priv, but that adds very little value, and forces compromises in other areas - like battery life.
    Wrong. 835 is very efficient. The only difference is that TCL can't skim as much off the top by going high end. So instead they inflate a mid-tier kit and hope the value of the BlackBerry namesake carries it. Typical approach one would expect from a licensee.
    12-11-17 10:16 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Wrong. 835 is very efficient, trust me. The only difference is that TCL can't skim as much off the top by going high end. So instead they inflate a mid-tier kit and hope the value of the BlackBerry namesake carries it. Typical approach one would expect from a licensee.
    Your theory requires the belief that TCL is not in this for the long haul, is not trying to build the brand, is intentionally trying to gouge its customers, is not trying to maximize long-term profitability, and is generally behaving stupidly.

    My version says building the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is expensive, and they are charging what they need to in order to make the exercise worthwhile.

    Btw, yes, the 835 is efficient, but all else being equal, you'll get further with the 625. Personally I hope the next one comes with the 660 (which is the rumour), because that's the ultimate sweet spot. I would refuse the 835 at the same price if I could have the 660.
    12-11-17 10:19 PM
  3. panopticon's Avatar
    Your theory requires the belief that TCL is not in this for the long haul, is not trying to build the brand, is intentionally trying to gouge its customers, is not trying to maximize long-term profitability, and is generally behaving stupidly.

    My version says building the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is expensive, and they are charging what they need to in order to make the exercise worthwhile.

    Btw, yes, the 835 is efficient, but all else being equal, you'll get further with the 625. Personally I hope the next one comes with the 660 (which is the rumour), because that's the ultimate sweet spot. I would refuse the 835 at the same price if I could have the 660.
    It would be better to have two variants. TCL has already proven they can run off multiple versions fairly efficiently...how hard would it be to bump up the SOC and perhaps the screen for an upper end model?
    12-11-17 10:32 PM
  4. Invictus0's Avatar
    Sorry, but that's not the case. 10M units/year was the minimum number of BB10 phones required to break even - and no one invests billions of dollars in a project over several years with thousands of employees to break even. The truth is that Mike believed he would be able to sell 40M or more phones per year - which made his plan viable, as with that volume, the high costs of supporting an entire platform could be spread across enough devices that BB could be competitive and still make a decent profit. And, had that volume been realized, he'd have been right. But BB10's best year (calendar Q213-Q114) only sold something like 4.7M devices (6M and change total when BBOS devices were included). That's an epic miss, and why BB put themselves up for sale only 2 quarters after release - they'd pushed "all in" and got crushed, and they needed big help just to survive.
    10 million was Chen's figure in 2014 and relied on their enterprise/regulated industries push at that time (detailed below, this is what I'm referring to with "niche"), you have to keep in mind that BlackBerry would be a much smaller company at this point compared to BB10's launch.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...A3822M20140410

    As a mainstream consumer OS I totally agree, the amount of sales they'd need to maintain an OS that I think many here and in the consumer market would want is unsustainable with the sales they got.
    12-11-17 11:03 PM
  5. BlackBerryPassport's Avatar
    [QUOTE=conite;13090914]In 2013, that "scenario" was unmanageable. There were too few loyal fans, and no market. BlackBerry was 5 years too late by then, and bankruptcy was a foregone conclusion.

    How many Loyal fan left after BlackBerry switch to Android. ??
    Did the sale of BlackBerry android bought them back to market ??
    And after Going android did the market share rise even to 2% ???
    Why BlackBerry stopped making phones even after going Android ??


    Posted via CB10
    12-11-17 11:46 PM
  6. conite's Avatar

    How many Loyal fan left after BlackBerry switch to Android. ??
    Did the sale of BlackBerry android bought them back to market ??
    And after Going android did the market share rise even to 2% ???
    Why BlackBerry stopped making phones even after going Android ??


    Posted via CB10
    Again, you don't seem to understand something. None of that is relevant.

    BlackBerry did NOT switch from BB10 to Android. BlackBerry was shutting down BB10 EITHER way.

    Android was a last ditch attempt to remain in the device business.

    BlackBerry discovered they could get rid of the low margin portion (hardware), and keep the high margin portion (software) via a licencing model.
    12-11-17 11:50 PM
  7. krazyatom's Avatar
    I absolutely disagree on both counts.

    KEYᵒⁿᵉ is in no way overpriced. People who say that, don't place value on what it offers, so even $200 would be overpriced.

    I've owned almost every BlackBerry ever built, and many other devices too - including iPhone and Nexus. My 6 month old KEYᵒⁿᵉ is as well-built (or better) than anything I've ever used. Everything fits perfectly together without gaps, notches, or seams. Finish is consistent, and keyboard is simply the best to date.
    What was your last iphone/Nexus you had? It seems like you had one 5-6 years ago.
    12-12-17 01:21 AM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It would be better to have two variants. TCL has already proven they can run off multiple versions fairly efficiently...how hard would it be to bump up the SOC and perhaps the screen for an upper end model?
    How much more would you be willing to pay for the 835 with 4 GB RAM? $650 US? $750?

    BlackBerry Mobile is not a high volume shop and so will always be more expensive than the equivalent Samsung or LG phone on specs alone. Their whole thesis is that a few million users will pay a reasonable premium for the BlackBerry version of Android and a more practical design emphasizing durability and battery life.

    There are plenty of commodity choices for Android phones if you want to pay for hardware specs at the best price. But BlackBerry Mobile will not compete for your business in that area.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 01:39 AM
  9. Trouveur's Avatar
    Keeping us, loyalist, updated/informed would have been the best option here (IMO). That's as well how branding works. You build smth with your audience. You create a relationship.

    But who cares, lol
    But informed of what ? The last BB10 device was launched in 2015, we are almost in 2018 !

    You don't need an official announcement to know that old devices from three years ago are no longer sold.

    Do you think Samsung made an announcement about the Galaxy S5 end ?


    Posted via CB10
    12-12-17 03:38 AM
  10. panopticon's Avatar
    Android was a last ditch attempt to remain in the device business.
    Another Chen lie. I think in hindsight it's quite apparent he started dismantling the hardware division the minute he took office.

    He probably met with the CEO of TCL within the first year of his mandate.
    12-12-17 07:09 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Another Chen lie. I think in hindsight it's quite apparent he started dismantling the hardware division the minute he took office.
    We already know he was hired specifically to soft-land BB10 while fulfilling supplier and customer obligations.

    Louks convinced him Android was worth a try, as it was low-risk, and low-cost. But Chen kept it on a short leash and never took is eye off the real ball.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-12-17 07:10 AM
  12. panopticon's Avatar
    How much more would you be willing to pay for the 835 with 4 GB RAM? $650 US? $750?

    BlackBerry Mobile is not a high volume shop and so will always be more expensive than the equivalent Samsung or LG phone on specs alone. Their whole thesis is that a few million users will pay a reasonable premium for the BlackBerry version of Android and a more practical design emphasizing durability and battery life.

    There are plenty of commodity choices for Android phones if you want to pay for hardware specs at the best price. But BlackBerry Mobile will not compete for your business in that area.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Every product is a commodity...and just because BlackBerry mobile does it that way, doesn't mean it's the right choice. The middle of the road approach is not without risk. When millions of people are willing to pay $1000+ for the latest iPhone or Samsung, is it really so unrealistic for BlackBerry mobile to shoot a little higher for their corporate and government well-to-do's? Since when did 'niche' translate into overpriced mid-tier hardware with a huge battery?
    12-12-17 07:18 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Every product is a commodity...and just because BlackBerry mobile does it that way, doesn't mean it's the right choice. The middle of the road approach is not without risk. When millions of people are willing to pay $1000+ for the latest iPhone or Samsung, is it really so unrealistic for BlackBerry mobile to shoot a little higher for their corporate and government well-to-do's? Since when did 'niche' translate into overpriced mid-tier hardware with a huge battery?
    Sure it's unrealistic because from a resource standpoint, BBMo doesn't have the resources to compete in the high-end space. BBMo would have to spend 100% revenue on advertising budget alone. Still they would be out spent by the flagship OEMs.

    Have you noticed that not a single Chinese OEM is a big player in NA/Europe?

    Licensing the Nokia and BlackBerry names are the path that Chinese OEMs are trying. TCL bought the Palm brand only to realize that brand is ancient. Unknown to most people on the planet.

    The flagship OEMs are not sitting on their hands waiting for Chinese OEMs to win marketshare. Apple, Google and Microsoft are backing their chosen winners and BlackBerry isn't even a thought. If anything, BlackBerry is on the wrong side of the war.
    12-12-17 07:41 AM
  14. panopticon's Avatar
    Sure it's unrealistic because from a resource standpoint, BBMo doesn't have the resources to compete in the high-end space. BBMo would have to spend 100% revenue on advertising budget alone. Still they would be out spent by the flagship OEMs.

    Have you noticed that not a single Chinese OEM is a big player in NA/Europe?

    Licensing the Nokia and BlackBerry names are the path that Chinese OEMs are trying. TCL bought the Palm brand only to realize that brand is ancient. Unknown to most people on the planet.

    The flagship OEMs are not sitting on their hands waiting for Chinese OEMs to win marketshare. Apple, Google and Microsoft are backing their chosen winners and BlackBerry isn't even a thought. If anything, BlackBerry is on the wrong side of the war.
    Sure, that sounds like a convincing argument. Until you realize there are real people and real customers at the other side of this equation. People that are BlackBerry customers, past and present, that have needs and wants that exceed discount SOC's and oversized batteries dressed up in a decently constructed BlackBerry branded case. Casting a big net into an empty sea won't net you any more fish. Lol.
    12-12-17 08:09 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    [mid-range, power sipping] SOCs and oversized batteries dressed up in a decent exterior build.
    Wow. Sign me up!
    12-12-17 08:12 AM
  16. panopticon's Avatar
    We already know he was hired specifically to soft-land BB10 while fulfilling supplier and customer obligations.

    Louks convinced him Android was worth a try, as it was low-risk, and low-cost. But Chen kept it on a short leash and never took is eye off the real ball.
    We know Chen was hired to kill the hardware division. Poor Louks was getting fired anyway but Chen made sure he left wearing the shame of PRIV's failure... including the switch to Android which was really just another phase of Chen's pivot to a licensing strategy.
    12-12-17 08:12 AM
  17. panopticon's Avatar
    Wow. Sign me up!
    Lol. We could sign you up fo a wooden replica with a BlackBerry logo on it and you would still buy it.
    12-12-17 08:16 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Lol. We could sign you up fo a wooden replica with a BlackBerry logo on it and you would still buy it.
    I'll take 2.
    12-12-17 08:21 AM
  19. wingnut666's Avatar
    Lol. We could sign you up fo a wooden replica with a BlackBerry logo on it and you would still buy it.
    i would like one

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:27 AM
  20. panopticon's Avatar
    I'll take 2.
    Hey since you seem to enjoy trying out so many different phones I suggest you try an Essential. Pure Android with an 835 and cheaper than a Motion or a KEYone. Not to switch to as your main driver of course, just for sh!ts and giggles.
    12-12-17 08:28 AM
  21. panopticon's Avatar
    i would like one

    Posted via CBX
    But bad news, it won't run BB10. Ha ha..
    12-12-17 08:30 AM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Hey since you seem to enjoy trying out so many different phones I suggest you try an Essential. Pure Android with an 835 and cheaper than a Motion or a KEYone. Not to switch to as your main driver of course, just for sh!ts and giggles.
    I keep going back and forth between the OnePlus 5T and Essential. I was giving the Essential some time to figure out its software issues.
    12-12-17 08:33 AM
  23. wingnut666's Avatar
    it would look good on my wall and remind me of the glory days of smartphones

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:34 AM
  24. wingnut666's Avatar
    explain how a bull**** company with a name like one plus five can make a business out of smartphones as a newcomer please

    other than child labour

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:35 AM
  25. panopticon's Avatar
    I keep going back and forth between the OnePlus 5T and Essential. I was giving the Essential some time to figure out its software issues.
    Essential has updated the camera a few times already. It now has a portrait mode which is pretty cool. Otherwise software is running great so far including my Hub+ subscription and BlackBerry keyboard. Other than a few quirky issued with the Launcher and certain apps I pointed out in another thread...it seems to be running fine and it's on the November security patch also.
    12-12-17 08:37 AM
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