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12-21-17 07:40 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    ie: greedy shareholders killed the company (mainly the institutional ones)

    Posted via CBX
    What shareholder (big or small), director, manager, or employee can stay viable after loosing billions and billions of dollars on a failed product?
    12-11-17 05:06 PM
  2. Invictus0's Avatar
    if fender was going bankrupt and they hired chen, and he had them stop making guitars and get into fidget spinners...would he be hailed as a hero?
    chen ruined the company we loved. f the shareholders. do what you know and do it well or dont bother. capitalism killed the company.

    Posted via CBX
    If fender was going bankrupt because no one bought their guitars anymore but they had a small but renowned fidget spinner business on the side. Sure?
    12-11-17 05:07 PM
  3. aodash's Avatar
    ie: greedy shareholders killed the company (mainly the institutional ones)

    Posted via CBX
    BlackBerry killed themselves - Chen gave them a viable way out. The greedy shareholders merely forced their hand. A hand which would have otherwise been forced to have been played later. Not much would have changed had they played it later other than Windows Phone would have been out of the market. Could BlackBerry have absorbed some of those WP customers later on? Sure. Would it have been enough to save them? No.

    I'm happy with what Chen did - at least some of the BlackBerry DNA lives on their Android handsets.
    Last edited by aodash; 12-11-17 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Typo.
    12-11-17 05:10 PM
  4. wingnut666's Avatar
    If the guitar product itself was consistently loosing billions of dollars, but they had an opportunity to expand its profitable guitar tuning software and guitar band management software, I hope they would have done the same thing - as the alternative is bankruptcy.
    so you would support a fender that ceases to make guitars. so long as they put money in your pocket. i do own some stocks but i have different criteria. i try to own companies that do things i like, and conduct themselves responsibly too.

    Posted via CBX
    12-11-17 05:11 PM
  5. wingnut666's Avatar
    BlackBerry killed themselves - Chen gave them a viable way out. The greedy shareholders merely forced their hand. A hand which would have otherwise been forced to have been played later. Not much would have changed had they played it later other than Windows Phone would have been out of the market. Could BlackBerry have absorbed some of those WP customers later on? Sure, would it have been enough to save them? No.

    I'm happy with what Chen did - at least some of the BlackBerry DNA lives on their Android handsets.
    why do people always reference the windows phone?
    for one, i have never seen a windows phone in my life.
    for two, i'm certain that they are/were a deplorable product, much like windows itself.

    ?

    there is no 'blackberry' in the new blackberry-branded phones.
    this has been covered ad nauseam.

    Posted via CBX
    rayporsche likes this.
    12-11-17 05:13 PM
  6. aodash's Avatar
    why do people always reference the windows phone?
    for one, i have never seen a windows phone in my life.
    for two, i'm certain that they are/were a deplorable product, much like windows itself.

    ?

    Posted via CBX
    People always reference them? I wasn't aware of that. I've actually seen them on flights and whatnot.

    I just referenced them because they were struggling much like BB10 was, and they were the only other player to drop out of the race in the past couple of years.
    12-11-17 05:16 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    so you would support a fender that ceases to make guitars. so long as they put money in your pocket. i do own some stocks but i have different criteria. i try to own companies that do things i like, and conduct themselves responsibly too.

    Posted via CBX
    Would I prefer to ask them to continue making guitars at astonishing losses to make me happy, even when it would ultimately send the company into bankruptcy and have all the employees lose their jobs? And after all that get no more guitars anyway?

    No.
    12-11-17 05:17 PM
  8. wingnut666's Avatar
    again do it well or dont do it. there is obviously a market for fender guitars. much like there was a market for blackberry handsets. loyal fans and a worldwide distribution network. a superior product. if a company cant manage that scenario then yes they should just throw in the towel. downsize. rethink priorites. ditch expensive know-nothing consultants and suit-fillers. hiring a billion-dollar bureaucrat with no credibility in the industry is lunacy. ..and thats what we got.

    Posted via CBX
    12-11-17 05:24 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    again do it well or dont do it. there is obviously a market for fender guitars. much like there was a market for blackberry handsets. loyal fans and a worldwide distribution network. a superior product. if a company cant manage that scenario then yes they should just throw in the towel. downsize. rethink priorites. ditch expensive know-nothing consultants and suit-fillers. hiring a billion-dollar bureaucrat with no credibility in the industry is lunacy. ..and thats what we got.

    Posted via CBX
    In 2013, that "scenario" was unmanageable. There were too few loyal fans, and no market. BlackBerry was 5 years too late by then, and bankruptcy was a foregone conclusion.

    Even if they WERE ready with a new product in 2008, we already know in hindsight it would probably have failed too. Clearly, BlackBerry could not have financially competed with the likes of Google and Android - who each spend many billions a year on OS development, support, and advertising.
    12-11-17 05:30 PM
  10. wingnut666's Avatar
    In 2013, that "scenario" was unmanageable. There were too few loyal fans, and no market. BlackBerry was 5 years too late by then, and bankruptcy was a foregone conclusion.

    Even if they WERE ready with a new product in 2008, we already know in hindsight it would probably have failed too. Clearly, BlackBerry could not have financially competed with the likes of Google and Android.
    but maybe they didnt have to.

    Posted via CBX
    12-11-17 05:34 PM
  11. leeiling's Avatar
    Why the Passport? Why not a 9900 that still provides revenue to BlackBerry? That's real authentic BlackBerry if you think about it.
    Why should I? I don't think they care about their customers.
    I have had the process of Z10(4), Q10(2), Z30(3), Q30(4) and Q20(1), and oh yes Priv(1).
    I believe I have done my part.
    And I am done with BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-17 05:37 PM
  12. wingnut666's Avatar
    i also believe, that if they had held on and found some creative ways to get the word out (not the f'n superbowl) they would have seen a resurgence.
    we are left with no options in the market and distrust of the big two is growing daily.

    Posted via CBX
    12-11-17 05:38 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Why should I? I don't think they care about their customers.
    I have had the process of Z10(4), Q10(2), Z30(3), Q30(4) and Q20(1), and oh yes Priv(1).
    I believe I have done my part.
    And I am done with BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry only has 3 customers with respect to devices of any kind - TCL, PT BB Merah Putih, and Optiemus Infracom.
    12-11-17 05:42 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    ie: greedy shareholders killed the company (mainly the institutional ones)

    Posted via CBX
    You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about. It was the institutional shareholders willing to put more cash into company and backing each other with cohesive strategy instead of forcing BlackBerry into bankruptcy liquidation.
    12-11-17 05:43 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    i also believe, that if they had held on and found some creative ways to get the word out (not the f'n superbowl) they would have seen a resurgence.
    we are left with no options in the market and distrust of the big two is growing daily.

    Posted via CBX
    In 2013? Not a chance in the world. By that point it was only a matter of whether they would last 18 or 24 months until complete insolvency. Rearranging the deck chairs only.
    12-11-17 05:43 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    capitalism killed the company.

    Posted via CBX
    Capitalism saved the company..... It would help if you understood basic economic principles.
    12-11-17 05:47 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    so you would support a fender that ceases to make guitars. so long as they put money in your pocket. i do own some stocks but i have different criteria. i try to own companies that do things i like, and conduct themselves responsibly too.

    Posted via CBX
    But if times change, the company has to change with them or your shares will be worthless..
    12-11-17 05:49 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Capitalism saved the company..... It would help if you understood basic economic principles.
    Without Prem, his billion dollars, and his hire of Chen (the software turnaround guy), BlackBerry would have been toast by early 2014. The very definition of capitalism.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    12-11-17 05:50 PM
  19. leeiling's Avatar
    BlackBerry only has 3 customers with respect to devices of any kind - TCL, PT BB Merah Putih, and Optiemus Infracom.
    Good point.
    That is the only word I can think of as of the moment.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-17 05:51 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    again do it well or dont do it. there is obviously a market for fender guitars. much like there was a market for blackberry handsets. loyal fans and a worldwide distribution network. a superior product. if a company cant manage that scenario then yes they should just throw in the towel. downsize. rethink priorites. ditch expensive know-nothing consultants and suit-fillers. hiring a billion-dollar bureaucrat with no credibility in the industry is lunacy. ..and thats what we got.

    Posted via CBX
    BB10 was never superior as it NEVER offered a viable replacement for BIS revenue. BlackBerry was on the wrong side of the entire industry...
    12-11-17 05:52 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    BB10 was never superior as it NEVER offered a viable replacement for BIS revenue. BlackBerry was on the wrong side of the entire industry...
    Agreed. Device revenue is not enough. Both Apple and Google have massive services/advertising/content revenue models - where devices are almost incidental and/or gravy.
    12-11-17 05:54 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Why should I? I don't think they care about their customers.
    I have had the process of Z10(4), Q10(2), Z30(3), Q30(4) and Q20(1), and oh yes Priv(1).
    I believe I have done my part.
    And I am done with BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    You missed the entire point. You bought all money losing technology late in the game. You placed all your bets on dead horses. LMAO... That was my reference to real BlackBerry and Conite's reference as well.
    12-11-17 05:55 PM
  23. leeiling's Avatar
    You missed the entire point. You bought all money losing technology late in the game. You placed all your bets on dead horses. LMAO... That was my reference to real BlackBerry and Conite's reference as well.
    Again, good point, that's all I can say.


    Posted via CB10
    12-11-17 05:58 PM
  24. wingnut666's Avatar
    i know this thread is entirely pointless, i just wish the world valued products over profits. it does not. perhaps in a parallel universe.

    Posted via CBX
    12-11-17 06:00 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    i know this thread is entirely pointless, i just wish the world valued products over profits. it does not. perhaps in a parallel universe.

    Posted via CBX
    But how do you make things without positive earnings? How do you pay your employees? Your rent? Your hydro?

    How do you pay back your investors and the banks when you have no positive earnings? Money is expensive to get, so if you offer no returns to your potential investors, why would they give you any to start your business?

    Are you advocating some kind of state-run economy that doesn't value innovation? Hasn't worked too well for North Korea.

    Capitalism sucks, but is by far the best system we have.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-11-17 06:03 PM
332 12345 ...

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