12-21-17 07:40 PM
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  1. panopticon's Avatar
    Samsung only supports 3 years of updates on their Enterprise Edition devices (currently just the Note 8), they certainly don't have monthly updates across all of their devices like BlackBerry does.
    "Only". Lol. I never said Samsung supported all their devices this way. But guess what? I owned both an S7 and S7 Edge for several months this year, neither of which are Samsung's current flagship nor 'enterprise edition' devices...and both devices, despite being carrier locked, were consistently a whopping one update behind only the most up to date BlackBerry Android (and ahead of many others particularly some of the carier variants). And that's their flagship from almost two years ago. I've had enough of the BlackBerry Cool-Aid on the updates issue. I challenge others here to go out and research what other brands offer and are actively doing to support their devices...and you will soon find out BlackBerry is anywhere but at the front of the pack in this regard.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-15-17 10:50 AM
  2. Invictus0's Avatar
    "Only". Lol. I never said Samsung supported all their devices this way. But guess what? I owned both an S7 and S7 Edge for several months this year, neither of which are Samsung's current flagship nor 'enterprise edition' devices...and both devices, despite being carrier locked, were consistently a whopping one update behind only the most up to date BlackBerry Android (and ahead of many others particularly some of the carier variants). And that's their flagship from almost two years ago. I've had enough of the BlackBerry Cool-Aid on the updates issue. I challenge others here to go out and research what other brands offer and are actively doing to support their devices...and you will soon find out BlackBerry is anywhere but at the front of the pack in this regard.
    "Only" meaning you have to pay extra for a special edition of the Note 8 for 3 years of updates. You can probably count on one hand the number of OEM's that support monthly updates for all of their devices.
    12-15-17 10:54 AM
  3. panopticon's Avatar
    "Only" meaning you have to pay extra for a special edition of the Note 8 for 3 years of updates. You can probably count on one hand the number of OEM's that support monthly updates for all of their devices.
    Are you serious? The Note 8 is probably going to get three years of updates anyway. Even the S6 is getting Oreo! Lol.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-15-17 11:28 AM
  4. Invictus0's Avatar
    Are you serious? The Note 8 is probably going to get three years of updates anyway. Even the S6 is getting Oreo! Lol.
    It's literally a selling point for Enterprise Edition,

    Devices receive regular monthly security updates for up to three years, and purchase assurance that they can buy the same device model up to two years from availability.
    https://news.samsung.com/us/galaxy-n...prise-edition/

    We'll see if the S6 gets Oreo, past Galaxy S devices have usually only gotten 2 major updates.
    12-15-17 12:01 PM
  5. panopticon's Avatar
    We'll see if the S6 gets Oreo, past Galaxy S devices have usually only gotten 2 major updates.
    Only two, lol. Versus BlackBerry's maximum one...or zero? And BTW when (not if) the S6 gets Oreo that will be four major OS updates since release in Spring 2015 not three...and it started on Lollipop just like the PRIV. Shall we continue the discussion with Nexus and Pixel? Motorola? Essential? I think it's probably better to leave BlackBerry diehards in the dark on this one, and keep them believing that maximum one OS update and maximum two years of patching is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-15-17 12:30 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Only two, lol. Versus BlackBerry's maximum one...or zero? And BTW when (not if) the S6 gets Oreo that will be four major OS updates since release in Spring 2015 not three...and it started on Lollipop just like the PRIV. Shall we continue the discussion with Nexus and Pixel? Motorola? Essential? I think it's probably better to leave BlackBerry diehards in the dark on this one, and keep them believing that maximum one OS update and maximum two years of patching is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    Three years is 50% better than two years, and both are completely inadequate, IMO. Over the past 20 years, I've kept each of my phones a minimum of three years and an average of a little more than 4 (five phones since 1997).

    I'm not poor, and I'm not cheap, but I refuse to throw away perfectly good hardware just because the manufacturer wants me to buy a new one. Now, Google is enshrining this planned obsolescence model with its two year patch model.

    It just supports my belief that, in 2017, mobile phones have largely already outlived their usefulness for business. Just as I was an early adopter of mobile phones for work, I'll move on to the next generation of more powerful mobile devices: lighter, always on, LTE tablets and laptops running VOIP.

    Meanwhile, my BB10 phones are still better than my KEYone for actually getting my work done, and now it looks like my Z10 might make it to almost seven years old, and still as snappy as I want for the work I care about.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-15-17 01:56 PM
  7. Invictus0's Avatar
    Only two, lol. Versus BlackBerry's maximum one...or zero? And BTW when (not if) the S6 gets Oreo that will be four major OS updates since release in Spring 2015 not three...and it started on Lollipop just like the PRIV. Shall we continue the discussion with Nexus and Pixel? Motorola? Essential? I think it's probably better to leave BlackBerry diehards in the dark on this one, and keep them believing that maximum one OS update and maximum two years of patching is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    I've been pretty critical of BlackBerry's update policy on BB Android so I'm not defending them. My issue was you cited Samsung (and now, Motorola) as examples of OEM's that do security updates better than BlackBerry when they both essentially have the same 2 year policy, BlackBerry only benefits as they have timely monthly updates (Samsung is usually behind and Motorola is quarterly).

    For the record, the Galaxy S6 launched on 5.x and is currently on 7.x, that's considered two major updates. Smaller updates like 6.0.1 or 7.1.x aren't considered major updates on Android. It would be great if the S6 gets Oreo but Samsung hasn't officially commented on it and we haven't seen any leaks or benchmarks that show Oreo is running on an actual S6 device so I wouldn't count on it.
    12-15-17 02:11 PM
  8. panopticon's Avatar
    Three years is 50% better than two years, and both are completely inadequate, IMO. Over the past 20 years, I've kept each of my phones a minimum of three years and an average of a little more than 4 (five phones since 1997).

    I'm not poor, and I'm not cheap, but I refuse to throw away perfectly good hardware just because the manufacturer wants me to buy a new one. Now, Google is enshrining this planned obsolescence model with its two year patch model.

    It just supports my belief that, in 2017, mobile phones have largely already outlived their usefulness for business. Just as I was an early adopter of mobile phones for work, I'll move on to the next generation of more powerful mobile devices: lighter, always on, LTE tablets and laptops running VOIP.

    Meanwhile, my BB10 phones are still better than my KEYone for actually getting my work done, and now it looks like my Z10 might make it to almost seven years old, and still as snappy as I want for the work I care about.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Seven years eh? And yet you still bought a KEYone...why, to stay two years ahead of the BlackBerry upgrade curve? Lol. That's a very special Z10 you have indeed. I hope it makes it. I don't have a doubt that if CB still exists in 2019 there will be some members here comparing notes on how well their obsolete BB products are still working...and where to buy $1000 audio cables. Ha ha.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-15-17 02:24 PM
  9. panopticon's Avatar
    I've been pretty critical of BlackBerry's update policy on BB Android so I'm not defending them. My issue was you cited Samsung (and now, Motorola) as examples of OEM's that do security updates better than BlackBerry when they both essentially have the same 2 year policy, BlackBerry only benefits as they have timely monthly updates (Samsung is usually behind and Motorola is quarterly).

    For the record, the Galaxy S6 launched on 5.x and is currently on 7.x, that's considered two major updates. Smaller updates like 6.0.1 or 7.1.x aren't considered major updates on Android. It would be great if the S6 gets Oreo but Samsung hasn't officially commented on it and we haven't seen any leaks or benchmarks that show Oreo is running on an actual S6 device so I wouldn't count on it.
    Oh come on...now you're splitting hairs!
    12-15-17 02:25 PM
  10. Invictus0's Avatar
    Oh come on...now you're splitting hairs!
    If we want Android OEM's to do better then we need accuracy so people can vote with their wallets and support OEM's that do.
    12-15-17 02:30 PM
  11. panopticon's Avatar
    If we want Android OEM's to do better then we need accuracy so people can vote with their wallets and support OEM's that do.
    I have to say since BlackBerry abandoned BB10 and its device business, I'm still torn. I'm underwhelmed by BBMo's devices and not too happy with BlackBerry's continued smugness about its unproven security features, lack of transparency about updates, etc. I'm not even convinced 'hardened Amdroid' serves any real purpose. For now I'll stick with BlackBerry apps and Android, and wait to see it BBMo comes up with anything more interesting in the meantime.

    One thing is for certain, if BlackBerry's experimental foray into Android turns out to be a failure, I'll most likely switch to iOS and give up on Android once and for all. I can't say I see much about Android that is convincingly superior to Apple and iOS, other than (arguably) the price point.
    12-15-17 02:54 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Seven years eh? And yet you still bought a KEYone...why, to stay two years ahead of the BlackBerry upgrade curve? Lol. That's a very special Z10 you have indeed. I hope it makes it. I don't have a doubt that if CB still exists in 2019 there will be some members here comparing notes on how well their obsolete BB products are still working...and where to buy $1000 audio cables. Ha ha.
    I bought a KEYone because I needed a secure Android phone for one client, and I really hate the Samsung phone's look and feel. It's annoying that it may only get 2 years of patches, but I'd be only slightly less annoyed at getting only three years, and I'd have to use a phone I really dislike. This makes me much happier.

    And, the whole point about the speaker cables is that spending more money and caring about tech specs doesn't make one special or superior. It just proves one has a passion for that particular technology.

    I drive a 15 year old car with 180,000 miles because I don't care about cars. I have a $15,000 audio system because I care A LOT about music. I get a lot more pleasure from my $1,000 speaker cables than I would get from a $1,000 phone.

    Besides, $1,000 is modest. A twenty foot pair of AudioQuest Tree Series WEL Signature speaker cables (www.audioquest.com/tree-series/wel-signature will set you back close to $80K.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-15-17 02:55 PM
  13. Invictus0's Avatar
    I have to say since BlackBerry abandoned BB10 and its device business, I'm still torn. I'm underwhelmed by BBMo's devices and not too happy with BlackBerry's continued smugness about its unproven security features, lack of transparency about updates, etc. I'm not even convinced 'hardened Amdroid' serves any real purpose. For now I'll stick with BlackBerry apps and Android, and wait to see it BBMo comes up with anything more interesting in the meantime.

    One thing is for certain, if BlackBerry's experimental foray into Android turns out to be a failure, I'll most likely switch to iOS and give up on Android once and for all. I can't say I see much about Android that is convincingly superior to Apple and iOS, other than (arguably) the price point.
    The QuadRooter exploit proves that BB Android's security features are real and more than just hype IMO but I think we have to keep in mind that BlackBerry can only change so much about Android before it breaks compatibility with the standard OS which negates the purpose of going with Android in the first place (as opposed to continuing runtime development).
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-15-17 03:46 PM
  14. panopticon's Avatar
    The QuadRooter exploit proves that BB Android's security features are real and more than just hype IMO but I think we have to keep in mind that BlackBerry can only change so much about Android before it breaks compatibility with the standard OS which negates the purpose of going with Android in the first place (as opposed to continuing runtime development).
    Well, yes and no. BlackBerry was the first to patch three of four quadrooter vulnerabilities and the fourth, to which it was allegedly immune thanks to the kernel, was still patched almost immediately. In other words it may have been in their best interest to have done this quickly and swept under the rug, as it were. I'm not saying they misled anyone, but I'm not one to take corporate spin at face value either.

    http://blogs.blackberry.com/2016/08/...lnerabilities/
    12-15-17 04:28 PM
  15. panopticon's Avatar
    I bought a KEYone because I needed a secure Android phone for one client, and I really hate the Samsung phone's look and feel. It's annoying that it may only get 2 years of patches, but I'd be only slightly less annoyed at getting only three years, and I'd have to use a phone I really dislike. This makes me much happier.

    And, the whole point about the speaker cables is that spending more money and caring about tech specs doesn't make one special or superior. It just proves one has a passion for that particular technology.

    I drive a 15 year old car with 180,000 miles because I don't care about cars. I have a $15,000 audio system because I care A LOT about music. I get a lot more pleasure from my $1,000 speaker cables than I would get from a $1,000 phone.

    Besides, $1,000 is modest. A twenty foot pair of AudioQuest Tree Series WEL Signature speaker cables (www.audioquest.com/tree-series/wel-signature will set you back close to $80K.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    So for you, the choice was between a Samsung and a BlackBerry for a secure Android...and BlackBerry won out thanks to the hardware? That's an interesting take, not just due to the false dichotomy it presents. I went with Essential this time, also for hardware and the pure Android build. I'm still disappointed the KEYone couldn't hold my interest for more than a month or so...ultimately I think it's because it's too much like a Classic...too mid-range for my tastes and just like the Classic, from a hardware perspective it felt like a PKB remake of a previous model (in this case, the DTEK50...which I never particularly liked either).
    12-15-17 04:41 PM
  16. Invictus0's Avatar
    Well, yes and no. BlackBerry was the first to patch three of four quadrooter vulnerabilities and the fourth, to which it was allegedly immune thanks to the kernel, was still patched almost immediately. In other words it may have been in their best interest to have done this quickly and swept under the rug, as it were. I'm not saying they misled anyone, but I'm not one to take corporate spin at face value either.

    BlackBerry Becomes First Major Manufacturer to Patch QuadRooter Vulnerabilities | Inside BlackBerry
    The Knowledge Base article is a better source, check out the Mitigations section. On an unpatched device security would be restored on reboot.

    BSRT-2016-007 Vulnerability in Qualcomm kernel driver impacts BlackBerry powered by Android smartphones
    12-15-17 04:51 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So for you, the choice was between a Samsung and a BlackBerry for a secure Android...and BlackBerry won out thanks to the hardware? That's an interesting take, not just due to the false dichotomy it presents. I went with Essential this time, also for hardware and the pure Android build. I'm still disappointed the KEYone couldn't hold my interest for more than a month or so...ultimately I think it's because it's too much like a Classic...too mid-range for my tastes and just like the Classic, from a hardware perspective it felt like a PKB remake of a previous model (in this case, the DTEK50...which I never particularly liked either).
    Yes. The only choices my client (a Healthcare research company) would allow to connect to their network resources was iPhone, BlackBerry or Samsung, due to the need for hardware layer protection. They run both Knox for containerization and BlackBerry UEM for device management.

    Beyond my liking the design better, my preference for the KEYone wasn't even a close call. The things that I felt the Samsung does better than the KEYone (hardware specs) did not matter to me at all, while the KEYone's strengths (battery life, keyboard shortcuts, launcher, BlackBerry Hub pre-installed, productivity tab and DTEK) were features I believed I would actually use and value.

    I have nothing bad to say about Samsung except that I don't like them, personally, my biggest complaints being the display, launcher, fragility, and slippery back.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-15-17 05:28 PM
  18. panopticon's Avatar
    The Knowledge Base article is a better source, check out the Mitigations section. On an unpatched device security would be restored on reboot.

    BSRT-2016-007 Vulnerability in Qualcomm kernel driver impacts BlackBerry powered by Android smartphones
    Ha ha, I see we are back to splitting hairs. I guess you might consider an 'immunity' that clears a fault upon reboot a protection of sorts...but it still had to be patched. Perhaps it is a glass 'half empty' approach, but I would characterize 3/4 vulnerabilities requiring patching and 4/4 still requiring patching regardless of the kernel to be a rather uninspiring security performance. The only truly impressive aspect of that situation was the speed with which they patched the flaw relative to the competition.
    12-15-17 06:11 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So for you, the choice was between a Samsung and a BlackBerry for a secure Android...and BlackBerry won out thanks to the hardware? That's an interesting take, not just due to the false dichotomy it presents. I went with Essential this time, also for hardware and the pure Android build. I'm still disappointed the KEYone couldn't hold my interest for more than a month or so...ultimately I think it's because it's too much like a Classic...too mid-range for my tastes and just like the Classic, from a hardware perspective it felt like a PKB remake of a previous model (in this case, the DTEK50...which I never particularly liked either).
    In all but one deal-breaking respect, the Essential is the phone I would probably pick if I wanted a personal Android phone to play with and use for app development and media. It holds no interest for me as a work device, but that's not what it's supposed to be, either.

    Unfortunately, the Essential has no headphone jack, which is an absolute requirement for me. For that reason alone, I would have to choose the LG G6, with its best in class DAC, if I was looking for a personal Android phone (which I'm definitely not!)

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-15-17 06:30 PM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    Ha ha, I see we are back to splitting hairs. I guess you might consider an 'immunity' that clears a fault upon reboot a protection of sorts...but it still had to be patched. Perhaps it is a glass 'half empty' approach, but I would characterize 3/4 vulnerabilities requiring patching and 4/4 still requiring patching regardless of the kernel to be a rather uninspiring security performance. The only truly impressive aspect of that situation was the speed with which they patched the flaw relative to the competition.
    That's still more than you're getting on stock Android and possibly even Knox based devices (I don't know if Samsung provides an official way to restore root). BlackBerry makes a very compelling product for people that care about root protection on Android.
    12-15-17 06:59 PM
  21. panopticon's Avatar
    In all but one deal-breaking respect, the Essential is the phone I would probably pick if I wanted a personal Android phone to play with and use for app development and media. It holds no interest for me as a work device, but that's not what it's supposed to be, either.

    Unfortunately, the Essential has no headphone jack, which is an absolute requirement for me. For that reason alone, I would have to choose the LG G6, with its best in class DAC, if I was looking for a personal Android phone (which I'm definitely not!)

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I almost always use bluetooth for headphones these days. FWIW I heard Essential was coming out with an attachable audio / DAC accessory but no details as of yet. For me the Essential is perfect because I get a nice clean and non-invasive software experience to run my BlackBerry Hub+, great hardware, and regular security patches. I realize it's probably not quite as robust as a BlackBerry in terms of security but honestly I can live without a couple of extra (and relatively minor) security perks, and with 128GB of internal storage I don't need an SD card either. Simple is good!

    And on top of all that, the titanium and ceramic build is gorgeously done. It looks and feels like an object worth spending hundreds of dollars to own. Easily the closest in build quality, design, and durability to an iPhone I have ever seen in an Android.
    12-15-17 07:31 PM
  22. aodash's Avatar
    Three years is 50% better than two years, and both are completely inadequate, IMO. Over the past 20 years, I've kept each of my phones a minimum of three years and an average of a little more than 4 (five phones since 1997).

    I'm not poor, and I'm not cheap, but I refuse to throw away perfectly good hardware just because the manufacturer wants me to buy a new one. Now, Google is enshrining this planned obsolescence model with its two year patch model.
    Yes, in general, Android patching/updating/lifecycle sucks. By comparison, I look at my work issued phone (iPhone 5S), which came out in 2013 with iOS 7, and it is still supported and still getting updates (currently on iOS 11).
    12-15-17 08:00 PM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yes, in general, Android patching/updating/lifecycle sucks. By comparison, I look at my work issued phone (iPhone 5S), which came out in 2013 with iOS 7, and it is still supported and still getting updates (currently on iOS 11).
    Yes. I'm surprised that Android is willing to give up such a huge advantage to Apple in terms of longevity. If I were buying a fleet of devices for a business, I'd probably have to go with Apple. I'm glad I'm not though, since I personally really dislike using iOS and HATE the closed Apple system.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-15-17 09:35 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    Yes. I'm surprised that Android is willing to give up such a huge advantage to Apple in terms of longevity. If I were buying a fleet of devices for a business, I'd probably have to go with Apple. I'm glad I'm not though, since I personally really dislike using iOS and HATE the closed Apple system.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Because Apple controls the entire supply chain.

    Android vendors have to rely on all of its component suppliers to provide patches.
    12-15-17 11:18 PM
  25. Mojarch's Avatar
    Certification means a neutral third party has validated and tested the technology and held it up to highest standard. Without it, you are simply relying on the claims of the vendor. I have never said I don't believe BlackBerry but on the other hand, if you are going to make a play in the secure devices market (some here are claiming it is the entire 'raison d'etre' for BlackBerry Android) and have no certifications to back it up, it certainly raises a lot of red flags. Security is not something you pay a premium for on a whim, and the support issue also a big question mark when it comes to BlackBerry Android. Just look at the DTEKs.

    Today we heard BlackBerry is discontinuing security updates for the PRIV. While this was somewhat expected, it shows that when you spend extra money on a BlackBerry Android device you are rewarded with (at least) one less OS update and a year less of security updates as competing brands such as Pixel, Samsung, Essential, and others. Every single one of which, incidentally, runs the BlackBerry app suite better than any BlackBerry branded device...and in some cases, for less money.

    I don't believe BlackBerry is making a very wise decision by abandoning their Android products so quickly, while at the same time extending support for BB10 and even BBOS for another two years. It shows BlackBerry Android is at the bottom of their device support priority list, even after their own devices and OS have been abandoned for two years, and it certainly makes one wonder if they truly believe their licensing strategy has a future.
    OK all you said true but what the he'll that 3rd party was doing when they tested knox?(all they have done was giving it certification which is useless cause it is easy to go around the knox even on very latest Samsung devices! The whole idea of security is no one else than company himself has full control of device isn't it? )
    I rather to get a demand which there is nothing to prove it is wrong than just looking at certificated feature which has been proven it can be cracked!

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-17 01:09 AM
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