07-13-14 01:32 PM
226 ... 78910
tools
  1. currentodysseys's Avatar
    That is one style of blind typing, but on traditional BlackBerry QWERTY keyboards you can also completely blind type. I and many proficient BlackBerry QWERTY keyboard users can and do type without looking at the device at all. I mostly do this at work since I'm always on the move, so I walk and type while looking forward and quickly proof read when I get a chance (nobody and nothing around me to bump into).

    This is possible because of how the keys are shaped and the because of the smooth material the keys are made of that allow the user to lightly slide their thumbs around the keyboard to feel each curve, crevice and dimple; and of course a lot of muscle memory as well.

    I don't think this style of blind typing will be easy or even possible on the Passport. The keys so far shown do not seem to have the traditional BlackBerry curves, crevices and dimples. Plus the material seems to be rubbery and might provide more resistance than the traditional BlackBerry QWERTY keyboards. Add to this the fact that swiping your fingers across the keyboard will scroll the content on the screen and you can imagine that it becomes even more difficult unless BlackBerry disables scrolling via touch sensitive keyboard whenever the focus is on a typing field. In fact this is probably what BlackBerry did to avoid the user scrolling all over the place while typing; whenever the contextual keyboard is on screen the ability to scroll via the touch sensitive keyboard is locked and to scroll again you must tap somewhere outside the typing field.

    I also don't believe anyone will be able to blind type in any way shape or form on the contextual virtual row. No matter how much you practice it is just impossible to differentiate between 2 small virtual keys that are right next to each other. So everyone will stop t look at the contextual keyboard to type their symbol of choice (if it's on the contextual keyboard at all when you need it).

    I'm not saying I'm 100% right and that the Passport won't be a good device for at least a few users; but we don't all have to wait to take all the information we've been given and use a little common sense and some logical thinking to figure out with a certain degree of precision how all of the pieces seem to work. This is why we even discuss these type of topics on this forum. This isn't the love and agree with everything BlackBerry no matter how wrong or broken something seems to be.


    Posted via CB10
    I get your point. I also do completely blind type, but the point is, I do check from time to time what I am writing and revise; anyhow, you need to do so if the message is not a simple standard answer to something, in which case maybe I just pawn on the keys and hit send. Or even talk to someone while you type away... I really know what that means, I 've been on phkb since 2007-8 with the Palm Treo and iPaq and then to BB since 2009.

    So, although I might have not expressed myself eloquently enough, we are not too far apart regarding user typology. I put thousands of words each day on my Q10 and share the same traits you mention.

    My posture on the matter is based on what you call "seem to work". I talked about "educated guess" which is what you are in essence talking about in your last paragraph as well and of course it is welcome and the common trend of us all interacting in the forums in a way; it is conversation and conversation is really good and useful, when done in a constructive way.

    The point I was trying to convey though, is that the Passport is a whole new proposition on the user input methodology and interaction. Thus I only draw attention to the fact that this may very well mean that our estimated guesses here may disregard counter-measures or alternative propositions included in the input/interaction methodology design of the phone. It is thus imo, one more, serious, reason that asks for a more cautious approach in evaluating, even if everything seems pretty clear.

    I agree on many of the points and am almost sure that many will be validated on both cons and pros aspect, as in:
    but we don't all have to wait to take all the information we've been given and use a little common sense and some logical thinking to figure out with a certain degree of precision how all of the pieces seem to work.
    But I still think that before we get to see the whole "value proposition" that the phone aims to present with the new capacitive phkb +vkb, our educated guesses and conclusions, tend to disregard that we leave out possible positive aspects that might actually make the proposal more interesting or more productive than we think or the contrary; maybe make it an unbearable phone to have. I think it looks promising, but if I get hands on it, maybe it is a tiny bit bigger than what I would be willing to handle on the keyboard side or what ever... (just find any scenario, it would be plausible).

    Just exposing another way of approaching this. At the end of the day it is about change management on a personal level, compromise and personal opinions, preferences, interpretations. But either we select to discuss on the personal evaluation (meaning "for me as a user") and maintain that framework or we accept that if we try to analyze the business perspective, we need to distance ourselves from personal perspective and try to find out Blackberry's whys and hows. Some tend to mix the two frames and try to validate our personal perception via our interpretation of business decisions. This is completely wrong and imo incompatible.

    To put it clearer: a) one thing is what each thinks and likes about their use of the phone, b) another is what we "think" or deduct about why Blackberry does it, and c) another is how we think the Passport works and really will do and d) another of how c+a or c+b ok, but c+b+a=FACT is not OK because it will not take us anywhere;

    it is apples and oranges and gravy on top.


    . I am quite sure that some, will have made up their mind towards a No, as you say (or a Yes) and they will stick on that, due to a clear aspect or feature that does not suit them. But in that, they may disregard a still unknown added value proposition that possibly will be carried by the device

    I also think that those "some" apart, many from these threads, will, deep down, admit that they rushed to judge when the whole package is revealed, be it that they were against or "for" previously.

    Just that (we are not in disagreement actually, I just propose a bit more "restrain" until we have the full picture -like a clear detailed video for instance- for the above mentioned reasons).

    Thanks for your answer and conversation!
    Last edited by currentodysseys; 07-11-14 at 02:24 PM.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-11-14 01:58 PM
  2. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I still think important to voice our opinions whether personal as a user and from a business perspective so that hopefully BlackBerry listens to our feedback and eventually makes the right choices in building a device that can suit the majority of users.

    Look at how microsoft handled Windows 8 and the XBOX One. They tried to shove something down users throats without any consideration to their concerns and opinions and as an overall both products have suffered because of it.

    So for BlackBerry I think it is just as important, and that's why some of us are voicing these concerns.

    Posted via CB10
    07-11-14 03:27 PM
  3. currentodysseys's Avatar
    I still think important to voice our opinions whether personal as a user and from a business perspective so that hopefully BlackBerry listens to our feedback and eventually makes the right choices in building a device that can suit the majority of users.

    Look at how microsoft handled Windows 8 and the XBOX One. They tried to shove something down users throats without any consideration to their concerns and opinions and as an overall both products have suffered because of it.

    So for BlackBerry I think it is just as important, and that's why some of us are voicing these concerns.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed; it is important and constructive to voice opinions and a pleasure discussing them.

    What I actually pointed out though is the following: we cannot pretend to try and "analyze" or "interpret" Blackberry's strategic positioning, goal and proposition from a business stand point regarding the Passport, based on personalized guesses and interpretations, whilst not having complete and objective knowledge of the full User interface proposition and added value that the passport is supposed to deliver as per BB's strategy. We need the 'what' and the 'how' on their complete versions to efficiently proceed in such discussion in a meaningful way; and we do not have that.

    Of course feedback is important to them as are our reactions to the interpretation of the the aspects of the UI available to us up now. This info and reactions may be contextualized by BB.

    I also voice my concerns as well as my positive impressions. That though is different to considering that those impressions constitute absolute factors in order to discuss a strategic positioning of the company on the aforementioned basis and framework.

    another way to say it is, we have some details; many of those we guess how they work and interpret or may be quite apparent to deduct and suppose from. We of course can voice opinion and contrast that info against our personal preference to attribute value of the phone (its perceptions) on a personal level.

    We can also try to project and integrate those details of usability, productivity, UI new model etc, in BB strategic planning. It makes a nice exercise all together. What we cannot do though imo is:

    a) project personal beliefs and 'wants' as global deciding factors on a business analysis and consider our perception to be the baseline from which BB should design their product (also in doing that some people were really in essence, even unwillingly discrediting a whole team - or group of teams- of professionals).

    b) we cannot ignore the fact that we may miss some details (some more important than others), that BB is on purpose holding back on keyboard use info for the passport

    c) we do not know how those details work together (the ones we kind of know, others we are "certain" about and others we do not even have disclosure on). All these aspects/ details together, form a uniform, interwoven and complete system of user experience. I am saying that this complete image we do not have it. Maybe, just maybe, the complete image and the complementary combination of those details to a system, do deliver to an extent greater/lower than what we currently are able to perceive.

    I say it again, I also have my doubts and impressions and although I am positively inclined to the phone in total, the kb makes me wonder, so I ll wait and see how it all works out as a system and then view and compare the cons and pros that will lead me to a personal decision on how to evaluate and benchmark the device.

    I hope cleared things up a bit.
    Cheers.
    07-11-14 03:51 PM
  4. dejanh's Avatar
    Agreed; it is important and constructive to voice opinions and a pleasure discussing them.

    What I actually pointed out though is the following: we cannot pretend to try and "analyze" or "interpret" Blackberry's strategic positioning, goal and proposition from a business stand point regarding the Passport, based on personalized guesses and interpretations, whilst not having complete and objective knowledge of the full User interface proposition and added value that the passport is supposed to deliver as per BB's strategy. We need the 'what' and the 'how' on their complete versions to efficiently proceed in such discussion in a meaningful way; and we do not have that.

    Of course feedback is important to them as are our reactions to the interpretation of the the aspects of the UI available to us up now. This info and reactions may be contextualized by BB.

    I also voice my concerns as well as my positive impressions. That though is different to considering that those impressions constitute absolute factors in order to discuss a strategic positioning of the company on the aforementioned basis and framework.

    another way to say it is, we have some details; many of those we guess how they work and interpret or may be quite apparent to deduct and suppose from. We of course can voice opinion and contrast that info against our personal preference to attribute value of the phone (its perceptions) on a personal level.

    We can also try to project and integrate those details of usability, productivity, UI new model etc, in BB strategic planning. It makes a nice exercise all together. What we cannot do though imo is:

    a) project personal beliefs and 'wants' as global deciding factors on a business analysis and consider our perception to be the baseline from which BB should design their product (also in doing that some people were really in essence, even unwillingly discrediting a whole team - or group of teams- of professionals).

    b) we cannot ignore the fact that we may miss some details (some more important than others), that BB is on purpose holding back on keyboard use info for the passport

    c) we do not know how those details work together (the ones we kind of know, others we are "certain" about and others we do not even have disclosure on). All these aspects/ details together, form a uniform, interwoven and complete system of user experience. I am saying that this complete image we do not have it. Maybe, just maybe, the complete image and the complementary combination of those details to a system, do deliver to an extent greater/lower than what we currently are able to perceive.

    I say it again, I also have my doubts and impressions and although I am positively inclined to the phone in total, the kb makes me wonder, so I ll wait and see how it all works out as a system and then view and compare the cons and pros that will lead me to a personal decision on how to evaluate and benchmark the device.

    I hope cleared things up a bit.
    Cheers.
    Well thought out post. I enjoyed reading it. It really hits the nail on the head in that we have very limited information right now and certainly not enough to draw any conclusions about the effectiveness or efficiency of the new design.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-11-14 04:45 PM
  5. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Please consider my observation; it may not work like that for everyone but I tried on the Q10 as "simulation exercise and works for me. I do also write without visual feedback on the kb or screen some times for short intervals. I think most phkb users do that to an extent.

    Reading your comment got me thinking the following:

    in order to "blindly" type, I use the tactile feedback of course. As reference to that we have the keys' volume and shape. normally, from the key we are at, we calculate the distance (by experience and repetition) to the next key of choice for input, departing as reference from the physical key that has marked the last input (most of the time this is double checked by visual confirmation - watching the screen) .

    So, what I realized is that, the vk row is solely 1key distance from the top row of the phkb and aligned with the keys of the phk (look photo below). That means that I still have a reference key do depart from or use as reference point (transitioning from the phk to the vk) and that if I use keys in the other rows I have to master the distance of each row and learn to move accordingly on the y axis, calculating a 4th row. So in reality I do not need the tactile feedback on the vk to verify entry, I need to learn and use the phk key aligned to the vk key placed above it. It is one row and one key distance that I need to learn to "calculate" and position my finger with precision, and get used to a tactile feedback from the screen just for this row. (also coupled with the edge of the phk feedback I actually have one more reference point to help me learn). I am not saying it is ideal, by any means, but it may be designed to provide some added value that I lack the info or experience in order to appreciate it yet. That is why I prefer to be on the "wait & see" bottom line: If with the passport I end up writing faster and easier than with my Q10 and the phone serves me better in multiple levels... I have not much more to think about. (until an improved or other, better option for my needs, comes out, be it who it may that produces it)
    Finally someone who is explaining it, and not just telling to wait and try.
    Even if it's a good "strategy" for blind typing, it's still limited by the hybrid nature. For example, you can easily blind reaching the shift and alt virtual key, but it's not the same thing. How can you be certain to have press it? Sure, the phone could vibrate to send you a feedback, but it's not the same feedback as a click or the thumb moving down closing the switch.

    And you could have all the cool things using a full qwerty. There is enough space on the phone, it's the largest BB ever made, they could fit those button on the side.
    currentodysseys likes this.
    07-11-14 05:32 PM
  6. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Reasons may vary and I give some possibilities voiced in the threads (from the silly to serious ones):

    1. the engineers and the whole product design team of BlackBerry are a bunch of fools who know nothing and we all definitely know better

    2. Because it reduces costs and helps from a design/ production perspective sacrificing on user experience

    3. Because the whole input method and input system proposal of the Passport with the capacitive phkb is bringing a new proposal of user-mobile interaction that someone studied in order to try and give a more efficient way of alphanumeric input and control.

    4... etc, etc...

    The only of the above that one can answer definitely is number 1: NOT possible.
    Sadly it is possible, not exactly how is written.
    Let's try with this:

    4. the designer of BlackBerry are a bunch of fools who know nothing about user experience and typing ergonomics, they made the Passport with the goal to look cool and the engineers had to fight with that stupid design.

    It's very plausible, apple is founded on that, they made what they made with look and brain washing over functionality.
    07-11-14 05:37 PM
  7. currentodysseys's Avatar
    Finally someone who is explaining it, and not just telling to wait and try.
    Even if it's a good "strategy" for blind typing, it's still limited by the hybrid nature. For example, you can easily blind reaching the shift and alt virtual key, but it's not the same thing. How can you be certain to have press it? Sure, the phone could vibrate to send you a feedback, but it's not the same feedback as a click or the thumb moving down closing the switch.

    And you could have all the cool things using a full qwerty. There is enough space on the phone, it's the largest BB ever made, they could fit those button on the side.
    Thank you for reading my long posts .

    I hear you and an honest answer is that I can understand this worrying you even if for me it is not a concern of the same magnitude. My simplified answer would be: " I do not know for sure, I note your concerns and add them in my evaluation process, but still, only a hands on would give me a real chance of answering knowledgeably and essentially your question or doubts".

    And all this, I base on my honest perception of how to appreciate, evaluate and perform my decision making regarding the phone.

    I hope that explains my stance. Me having that opinion, does not take away credit from yours in any way. Once we can reach this understanding (i mean that in general, not between the two of us), I think the discussion can become much more constructive.

    As a final point for this post, maybe we should all consider that instead of proving or trying to prove other people wrong, at the end, when a contrary opinion is based with structure and logic, embracing it -as in really considering it- can only provide views that otherwise we might have been unable to see from our stand point. Everyone is biased even if we try not to be .

    So, thank you!
    Elite1 likes this.
    07-11-14 05:48 PM
  8. currentodysseys's Avatar
    Sadly it is possible, not exactly how is written.
    Let's try with this:

    4. the designer of BlackBerry are a bunch of fools who know nothing about user experience and typing ergonomics, they made the Passport with the goal to look cool and the engineers had to fight with that stupid design.

    It's very plausible, apple is founded on that, they made what they made with look and brain washing over functionality.
    I am sorry but I refrain, on principal, as a professional and a person, from passing judgment on the professional qualities and personal aptitudes of people I do not know (them or their work -like really know the why's and how's) and teams of experts I have no knowledge of based on first hand experience; Never at least based on my general "perceptions" and on "generalizations". I am more factual. Especially, when this is a procedure that has nothing to do with me. (In my work environment I do, but not on a personal level and always based on analysis of data, output and quantified and quality metrics).

    I may discuss my perception of their work output, or speculate on their strategy as they provide fertile ground for scenarios and business exercise models (in the context of the forums here), but I will not move on to pass judgments of that type.

    Also, based on pure mathematics, the chances of the whole R+D, engineer, product development and management teams involved in the work behind launching a device, being all fools, is extremely low .

    The apple statement at the end just works as a counter argument to your very own assumption: if Apple if founded on that (a dispute between a bunch of fools and engineers), judging on the success (commercially) of the iphone(s), then success and functionality should not be traits of the iphone. I would never use an iphone, I do not like them for my use, but to try and prove that they are not functional... good luck, because they are, to many people...

    and this brings the parameter of "for whom" are things made?
    07-11-14 06:03 PM
  9. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Also, based on pure mathematics, the chances of the whole R+D, engineer, product development and management teams involved in the work behind launching a device, being all fools, is extremely low
    No, the only fool are the one on the design team. The rest just had to accept it and work around those limitation.
    It won't be a new thing, as many, many things are made with that principle in mind, and not only in IT.

    The new apple is founded on that (not the old one), it started with a big lie: computers don't have a keyboard but only screen and mouse. The os was a complete disaster, a slightly updated iPod, none appreciated it and it was light years after everyone else, and it still is on many aspects. But the marketing team, the most important in apple, told to every ignorant that it was the best and they believed it, bought it because someone told them it's cool.

    And now, we have millions of people with phones that costs hundreds of (your currency here) that cannot use it, don't have any idea of what they are capable of, how they could help them, how they works or why they bought it.
    And I'm not talking only about iphone here. Yesterday a new colleague sent me an SMS while she could have sent me an email (she has an Android and a corporate Windows Phone), today I found that a friend disabled the email from his LG. My uncle doesn't know that if he closes the messaging apps of his iphone, he stops receiving messages. A colleague told me that his wife's sister didn't have any clue about iCloud and never touched her ipad in 3 months after buying it.
    My sister, BlackBerry user before me, thinks Whatsapp is better because the background is colored while on her Q10 BBM's background is black. Nothing more.

    They made a billionaire marked, composed by people who don't know anything about what they bought. Do you still think that is important that things work well before they look well?
    07-11-14 06:31 PM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    I get your concern about "registering" a tap on the screen vk. I know other people that (I do not know why) have a much harder time registering a tap (physiology maybe, really do not know), no matter what phone they use. I see how this might be the case, but this has nothing to do with the design of the phone in general. It has to do with your use and your particular situation-experience. As such, it is respectable but not a general concern or decision parameter.

    On the other hand, you say there would not be ANY need for virtual rows. So, since it is a three row phkb + vk row, I say there must be a reason for it, as someone made a conscious decision to make that happen.

    Reasons may vary and I give some possibilities voiced in the threads (from the silly to serious ones):

    1. the engineers and the whole product design team of BlackBerry are a bunch of fools who know nothing and we all definitely know better

    2. Because it reduces costs and helps from a design/ production perspective sacrificing on user experience

    3. Because the whole input method and input system proposal of the Passport with the capacitive phkb is bringing a new proposal of user-mobile interaction that someone studied in order to try and give a more efficient way of alphanumeric input and control.

    4... etc, etc...


    The only of the above that one can answer definitely is number 1: NOT possible.

    Another issue to keep in mind is: on a low volume production model (it is not meant to be produced by the 100s of milions), I think that the actual R+D to change the user interface and design, test it and implement it, has a quite higher cost, than putting in the keys. So I (guessing again, take it with a pinch of salt, or a lot of..) think that cost cutting may also not have been the case. (Just to add to the speculation conversation, aiming it to be a constructive comment).

    The others are speculations from our part. So, please why not wait, see the proposal made by the passport with the full features and UI shown and tried out, obtain measurable metrics on input-output and then try ourselves, before we get stuck in choosing between 2, 3, 4 ...etc and defending it as if it was a bloody religious relic?
    There are a lot of times where a lot of work was put into the R&D for a new design to where even if it's determined that it's not the best change, they use it anyway so they don't feel like they've spent all of that time and money into designing it without using it... I've seen things like that happen in every industry. One good example is Ford, they spent a lot of time and money designing this infotainment system that controlled everything, from the radio, to the a/c, all on the touchscreen. Of course, people who don't suffer from "if it's newer it has to be better" syndrome said that somethings, such as a/c controls, are actually better with physical buttons/knobs since you don't need to wait for the system to boot up to make changes. Well, they kept this touchscreen method for several years, knowing that it's less efficient, but guess what, now they're going back to physical controls for the a/c and some other things. Why did they use touchscreen controls for so long? Mainly because they spent a lot of time developing it, so they had to use it...
    07-11-14 08:38 PM
  11. guygardner73's Avatar
    Just a thought: why doesn't BlackBerry develop a work oriented Google Glass type ocular device? That way, you could be on the subway and edit spreadsheets on the perceived equivalent of a 50" screen lol.

    God, I so should be in R & D!

    Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.3247 O2 UK
    07-12-14 02:14 AM
  12. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I'm pretty certain that a transition from PKB to VKB during typing is impossibly seamless. I remember my Bold days very good and pressing a physical ALT or SHIFT key in between felt just seamless. On my Bold I wrote with more than 5 keystrokes per second on average and I think that's only possible if the haptics of any keystroke is consistent. Going between virtual and physical constantly will always throw in a subjective STOP - RETHINK - delay of at least a few hundred milliseconds. I know it sounda incremental but I think it will make for an overall typing experience that's totally different from that of a Bold or Q series and I fear not for the better.
    07-12-14 05:57 AM
  13. CeCoQ's Avatar
    Sorry OP, but that's quite a stupid bashing. From all what we know, there will be only one row of numbers if you want to fill your spreadsheet. Welcome the Classic if you allready know that the keyboard has to stay the same for you, or wait and let's see how the new design performs.
    This thread is pretty much a, "BlackBerry it's still time to fix the Passport keyboard - Part 2" let the madness begin. Mod close this thread when needed. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-14 06:31 AM
  14. currentodysseys's Avatar
    No, the only fool are the one on the design team. The rest just had to accept it and work around those limitation.
    It won't be a new thing, as many, many things are made with that principle in mind, and not only in IT.

    The new apple is founded on that (not the old one), it started with a big lie: computers don't have a keyboard but only screen and mouse. The os was a complete disaster, a slightly updated iPod, none appreciated it and it was light years after everyone else, and it still is on many aspects. But the marketing team, the most important in apple, told to every ignorant that it was the best and they believed it, bought it because someone told them it's cool.

    And now, we have millions of people with phones that costs hundreds of (your currency here) that cannot use it, don't have any idea of what they are capable of, how they could help them, how they works or why they bought it.
    And I'm not talking only about iphone here. Yesterday a new colleague sent me an SMS while she could have sent me an email (she has an Android and a corporate Windows Phone), today I found that a friend disabled the email from his LG. My uncle doesn't know that if he closes the messaging apps of his iphone, he stops receiving messages. A colleague told me that his wife's sister didn't have any clue about iCloud and never touched her ipad in 3 months after buying it.
    My sister, BlackBerry user before me, thinks Whatsapp is better because the background is colored while on her Q10 BBM's background is black. Nothing more.

    They made a billionaire marked, composed by people who don't know anything about what they bought. Do you still think that is important that things work well before they look well?

    From a personal, consumer stand point, yes, I prefer practicality and put "working well" before "looking well' in my list. Ideally I would prefer both (based on my aesthetics appreciation subjectively), but if I had to choose on a black & white scenario?: give me something that works.

    Now if you want to discuss this from a Strategic and Promotional Marketing point of view... I think this is a whole different discussion all together. Also you touch upon IT user illiteracy or low user comprehension (put is as you like).

    As much as I acknowledge this as a phenomenon to exist, It does not formulate part of my worries within the purpose of this thread. If we tried integrating this to the conversation, in order to contextualise, I would consider it, but I believe it will take us nowhere, since this applies to users from all Os and all platforms and also you need to give me relevance towards the passports effectiveness. If we go there, then maybe Blackberry is doing it right if your argument that "they crippled productivity" stands, since you are saying basically that design does not matter and that all that matters is marketing and market perception manipulation in order to achieve sales. I do not agree.

    Coming back to the point of designer teams and engineers though, I said it before, I will say it again, I am not a fan of generalization, especially when it qualifies and attacks people and professionals and I abstain from it as much as I can control it (always in conscious, essential, serious setups at least). So I am sorry, I will not agree with you on the basis of my stance.

    For the issue of common perception and how people perceive consumer goods and interact with the market, read my signature .

    All the best.
    Last edited by currentodysseys; 07-12-14 at 11:32 AM.
    07-12-14 08:55 AM
  15. currentodysseys's Avatar
    There are a lot of times where a lot of work was put into the R&D for a new design to where even if it's determined that it's not the best change, they use it anyway so they don't feel like they've spent all of that time and money into designing it without using it... I've seen things like that happen in every industry. One good example is Ford, they spent a lot of time and money designing this infotainment system that controlled everything, from the radio, to the a/c, all on the touchscreen. Of course, people who don't suffer from "if it's newer it has to be better" syndrome said that somethings, such as a/c controls, are actually better with physical buttons/knobs since you don't need to wait for the system to boot up to make changes. Well, they kept this touchscreen method for several years, knowing that it's less efficient, but guess what, now they're going back to physical controls for the a/c and some other things. Why did they use touchscreen controls for so long? Mainly because they spent a lot of time developing it, so they had to use it...

    Ok, for the shake of the argument, I will accept a general application of your statement; so, let us say that

    "a lot of times where a lot of work was put into the R&D for a new design to where even if it's determined that it's not the best change, they use it anyway so they don't feel like they've spent all of that time and money into designing it without using it... I've seen things like that happen in every industry".

    Although I need to voice my objection to that logic of generalization (see my posts in this and past couple of pages), even if I accepted your statement as a general fact I still have questions:

    How can you or me or anyone prove that this is the case with the passport anyway? The general argument serves to acknowledge that this does happen some times. Doing that serves as a basis to invite people in the conversation to investigate if that is the case in blackberry. So, you now my friend, have to prove that in Blackberry's teams involved with the design and the passport, what actually happens is that (brackets are my words:

    "a lot of work was put into the R&D for [the] design [of the passport]to where even if it's determined that it's not the best change, they use it anyway so they don't feel like they've spent all of that time and money into designing it without using it"

    To begin with I do not know any multi-million company that bases strategy on pure "feelings"... too expensive... This impression is part of marketing and movies but in the real world, as far as I know, just in order "not to feel like spending time and not using it" is not admissible in any board of directors meeting. (FACT)

    For me, your perception based on your appreciation of the device, prior to its launch or disclosure of information regarding its output level on productivity, is not argument enough to accept your point. Sorry, I considered it but I am not convinced. So if you can bring tangible facts of the overall user interface and productivity in the device being a failure (not the aspects isolated, the whole aded value proposition and input / productivity system), then I will listen up closely!
    07-12-14 09:04 AM
  16. BBFunGuy's Avatar
    tl:dr

    So, the main objection to the prospective keyboard is that it makes people angry?
    07-12-14 10:36 AM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    tl:dr

    So, the main objection to the prospective keyboard is that it makes people angry?
    Hahaha, I guess so. Lol!

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-12-14 11:19 AM
  18. II ARROWS's Avatar
    since you are saying basically that design does not matter and that all that matters is marketing and market perception manipulation in order to achieve sales. I do not agree.
    No, I'm saying that design, combined with marketing, is often more important than engineering.
    Marketing cannot do much without design. But both doesn't need engineering to succeed.

    So, it's not important how the keyboard work for mass success, but only how it looks and what marketing can do (and BB marketing department is not doing a good job).
    07-12-14 12:36 PM
  19. imcrackedout's Avatar
    I like the full key board version you made up. It does even have to be any bigger really however, even though op's rendition looks great, bb simply has to use the wasted real estate that they are notorious for at the top of the phone, there's so much useable space there, Just make the blackberry logo smaller or move it higher up.
    07-12-14 11:26 PM
  20. slagman5's Avatar
    I like the full key board version you made up. It does even have to be any bigger really however, even though op's rendition looks great, bb simply has to use the wasted real estate that they are notorious for at the top of the phone, there's so much useable space there, Just make the blackberry logo smaller or move it higher up.
    You mean like this? ;-)
    BB advertises the Passport more efficient than competition in using spreadsheets...-passport-fullkeyboard02.jpg
    07-12-14 11:48 PM
  21. 018125's Avatar
    You mean like this? ;-)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	passport-fullkeyboard02.jpg 
Views:	285 
Size:	160.8 KB 
ID:	284687
    Honestly I hate your versions. Blackberry's is a million times more classy (except for the weird stretched font).

    I just need them to print common symbols on the keys and stop the vkb from popping up for all but extended symbols. I will accept swipe as an alternative to ALT.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-14 06:45 AM
  22. deadcowboy's Avatar
    You don't even need a full keyboard. Just adding secondary characters to the keys and allowing alt and shift to be activated with a swipe would have been enough.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-14 08:09 AM
  23. imcrackedout's Avatar
    You mean like this? ;-)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	passport-fullkeyboard02.jpg 
Views:	285 
Size:	160.8 KB 
ID:	284687
    Bingo! looks great with 4 rows as well.
    I also like the look of the 3 rows, but I don't want to give up screen size when I'm typing.
    07-13-14 08:17 AM
  24. slagman5's Avatar
    Honestly I hate your versions. Blackberry's is a million times more classy (except for the weird stretched font).

    I just need them to print common symbols on the keys and stop the vkb from popping up for all but extended symbols. I will accept swipe as an alternative to ALT.

    Posted via CB10
    Considering all I'm doing is cutting and pasting that takes me like 5 minutes to do, that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. I'm not doing anything complicated at all, lol. :-D

    Maybe someone who is an actual artist can craft some nice looking renders of these. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    07-13-14 09:44 AM
  25. slagman5's Avatar
    Bingo! looks great with 4 rows as well.
    I also like the look of the 3 rows, but I don't want to give up screen size when I'm typing.
    Yah, although it's unlikely they'll ever go that route, I think they usually like to keep the chin clear for carrier markings...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    07-13-14 09:46 AM
226 ... 78910

Similar Threads

  1. Love the BlackBerry Z30 but my eyes!
    By Qaddafi in forum BlackBerry Z30
    Replies: 88
    Last Post: 07-31-14, 03:46 PM
  2. BlackBerrys last bullet: Learning from the Super Bowl disaster
    By Fistmaster in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-18-14, 08:56 AM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-10-14, 12:32 PM
  4. Find recording in 'Remember'?
    By aussie99 in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-09-14, 06:28 PM
  5. Is the passport wide enough ?
    By tgtallinn in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-08-14, 03:21 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD