07-13-14 01:32 PM
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  1. arvind1983's Avatar
    Its funny, I see you on almost all the Passport threads. Nothing wrong at all

    Has anyone noticed a trend that all of the top threads in the Passport subforum are slagman5, II ARROWS, and 018125 slapping each other on the rear end? Not picking at anyone, just wanted to point out that it's really funny...
    07-09-14 08:28 AM
  2. undone's Avatar
    Where in publications has it shown three rows of virtual keys? If there are, you have eliminated any advantage the screen size has. So valid point of screen real estate gone. But that is just an assumption (unless I missed the pub showing the virtual).

    If I am not mistaken, the keyboard will act as a trackpad as well (or that's that I inferred from what I read), I could be wrong here. Anyway, so that means navigation should be 'simple' and without interacting with the screen.

    Just boils down to how the numbers/special characters (virtual keyboard) look and how you can interact with them. If they have created a method that is both easy to learn and master, alt will be a thing of the past.
    07-09-14 09:06 AM
  3. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Incredible. This thread is now 6 pages and so many people here still can't rap their heads around the fact that a fully featured and full functional hardware QWERTY keyboard would trounce the crippled QWERTY keyboard that the Passport was announced with.

    This discussion was over from the get go. The OP is 100% correct in asserting that a proper hardware QWERTY keyboard would give the user an overall better experience without sacrificing screen real-estate in every way other than extended symbols input.

    Wake up, open your eyes. You don't have to use the Passport to know it has a crippled hardware keyboard; BlackBerry themselves is showing you as much already.

    Posted via CB10
    Not all of us view it as "crippled". If you look at it as a virtual keyboard with some physical keys it makes more sense.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    07-09-14 09:15 AM
  4. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Just boils down to how the numbers/special characters (virtual keyboard) look and how you can interact with them. If they have created a method that is both easy to learn and master, alt will be a thing of the past.
    The "ALT" key is not the problem. The problem is how the symbols are presented.
    The swipe down gesture can be fast or faster (you can do that even with the right thumb, you cannot do that right now), but the issue is the lack of symbols on key (that require a virtual keyboard) and the absence of most used punctuation like comma, question mark and dots, available with the press of a key.

    Or, with BB10 you can hold the 0 button to start voice recognition.

    If the swipe up gesture is dedicated to the word prediction, depending on where you do on the keyboard, and swipe left means "delete word"... they are good shortcut.

    But the real problem comes with capitalization, or those languages that use a lot of accents or symbols (like German), and number (like on spreadsheet). At best, it's confusing because you don't have them on the keys.
    07-09-14 09:30 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Not all of us view it as "crippled". If you look at it as a virtual keyboard with some physical keys it makes more sense.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    No, that doesn't make sense at all.
    You go for a physical keyboard because you want a better typing experience and because you don't want to type on glass.
    You get tactile feedback on a PKB you will never be able to get on a VKB (until they get touchscreens to emulate surfaces).
    This comes with the trade-off of a smaller screen size, because the keyboard is permanently up.

    A VKB on the other hand isn't always there. So it gives you more screen real-estate.
    It it dynamic and can change what characters it displays.
    You don't get a precise tactile feedback though.

    So yeah, it doesn't make sense to "enhance" a phone that already *could* have a completely usable physical keyboard, with a virtual keyboard.
    You don't gain anything by doing that, you just lose out.
    On usability, screen real-estate and typing experience (sliders being the obvious exception).

    Posted via CB10
    anon1727506 likes this.
    07-09-14 09:33 AM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    Incredible. This thread is now 6 pages and so many people here still can't rap their heads around the fact that a fully featured and full functional hardware QWERTY keyboard would trounce the crippled QWERTY keyboard that the Passport was announced with.

    This discussion was over from the get go. The OP is 100% correct in asserting that a proper hardware QWERTY keyboard would give the user an overall better experience without sacrificing screen real-estate in every way other than extended symbols input.

    Wake up, open your eyes. You don't have to use the Passport to know it has a crippled hardware keyboard; BlackBerry themselves is showing you as much already.

    Posted via CB10
    Since we're done can we close this thread?

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-09-14 09:35 AM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Really, it's a keyboard where the keys change in context. It works great in the BB10 vkb. To me, the Passport augments that clever design with three rows of physical keys that double as a big touchpad.

    This is not intended to be a traditional BlackBerry keyboard experience. Users who need that would be looking at a Q10 or a Classic.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    sleepngbear and grover5 like this.
    07-09-14 09:43 AM
  8. playbook_swiper1's Avatar
    I agree. I'd be more impressed if BlackBerry released an app that could better view and edit spreadsheets on mobile. Docs to Go is just Excel on a smaller screen. The whole spreadsheet navigation has to be re imagined for mobile.

    Posted via CB10
    Not even close. Basic formula's don't work, editing is a pain the a$$, and corruption isa regular occurence. Docs to Go is crap.
    07-09-14 10:02 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Really, it's a keyboard where the keys change in context. It works great in the BB10 vkb. To me, the Passport augments that clever design with three rows of physical keys that double as a big touchpad.

    This is not intended to be a traditional BlackBerry keyboard experience. Users who need that would be looking at a Q10 or a Classic.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    I got that it's not traditional.
    Hard to miss.

    The point is though, that it doesn't make sense.
    Who buys a physical keyboard phone, to type on a touchscreen?
    The concept makes no sense whatsoever.

    And no, they keys of the keyboard don't change depending on the context.
    It's just one virtual row that will do that. A virtual row that is completely unneeded.

    I asked you a number of times already:
    What do I gain, through giving up a physical 4th row?
    Or let's forget about the row, just the alt/sym/shift keys?
    What do I gain, apart from less screen estate?

    Nobody was able to answer that question.

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 10:08 AM
  10. freedomx20a's Avatar
    I dont think you have to press the screen for the symbols. Just the physical button corrisponding to the location of the virtual button.


    So if your symbol was #

    you would swipe down to activate symbols and push "Q"

    almost like holding shift and bringing your other thumb all the way across to try to hit the "Q"

    This will increase my speed.
    07-09-14 10:21 AM
  11. Timbosaurus's Avatar
    Out of curiosity, has anybody tried the android version of Microsoft Office on a late build of 10.3 yet?
    07-09-14 10:24 AM
  12. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Same shizz, different thread...

    Time to grasp the FACT that this IS the Passport's keyboard. Embrace it or reject it, but you're not going to change it no matter how many threads you guys whine about it in...
    anon1727506 and grover5 like this.
    07-09-14 10:32 AM
  13. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    No thanks. I have a laptop that lets me get work done without awkwardly needing to touch the screen or carry an external mouse and keyboard to do any real work.

    Posted via CB10
    You don't have to carry mouse with the Surface Pro 3, and the Keyboard/TouchPad is in the device cover, which weight almost nothing and carrying it is no different than carrying the device itself. If you want the lightest package and still want the full Excel Experience, you have two choices: Surface Pro 3 and Surface 2 (Runs RT, but comes with the full Excel). Right behind them would be the MacBook Air and other similar Windows UltraBooks, but they aren't as portable as the tablets and are unusable without the keyboard (except maybe a few UltraBooks that can flip around and have Multi-Touch Displays).
    07-09-14 10:43 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Same shizz, different thread...

    Time to grasp the FACT that this IS the Passport's keyboard. Embrace it or reject it, but you're not going to change it no matter how many threads you guys whine about it in...
    I just want that someone explains me what's the advantage from a keyboard with 3 rows, no physical alt/sym/shift that is paired with a virtual keyboard, over a normal physical keyboard.

    In 5 threads, 100s of pages and 1000s of comments, nobody was able to do that.
    I just wonder, if there might be a reason for it (as in, there is no advantage).

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 10:47 AM
  15. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    The Passport picture with the fully functional keyboard its the way Passport should be. Currently the Passport isn't efficient at all if people don't have a fully functional keyboard, adding the keyboard they have on it now adds extra steps which turns into money loss by the companies who deploy or the users typing.

    I know the Samsung Note 4 will be far more efficient than the Passport will ever be.
    07-09-14 11:00 AM
  16. DueNorthBB's Avatar
    Thanks for the civil dissenting reply. What a breath of fresh air. And actually I know about the whole rectangular limitations of digitizers, LCD and LED screens have that same limitation (well, they are working on tech to remove that, should be out very soon) but it's still doable. They could simply make it a rectangle tall enough to cover the fourth row, but the corners are just covered with the plastic so only the exposed shift, 0, space, and the other shift key would be usable. Or they could simply make the bottom row keys slightly wider with a wider space bar and that'll easily make it rectangular. Never hurts to have a nice sized space bar because that's the key you hit the most often. Or just extend the shift keys out to the edge and keep everything else the same. Either way, there are many options that, in my opinion, are better than what they ended up with...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Actually a larger digitizer would mean:
    a) higher costs (size of the digitizer, total size of device, and extra row of keys)
    b) it would also also use more power. This could be partly offsetted by a larger battery which would go to point a) again... higher costs.

    There must have been an engineering decision made with regards to this.
    In an ideal world, we would have everything we want, however in reality there are compromises to be made.

    I believe there must have been cases where they need to justify the costs vs. benefits of using a touch sensitive keyboard (besides another method to scroll and select items). One of those cases could be the ability to remove one row of keys.
    07-09-14 11:20 AM
  17. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I believe there must have been cases where they need to justify the costs vs. benefits of using a touch sensitive keyboard (besides another method to scroll and select items). One of those cases could be the ability to remove one row of keys.
    But why remove it, to then make that row virtual?
    While at the same time, including that huge VKB?

    Also, we know that the Passport won't be cheap anyhow...
    You really think that an additional 10$ on the MSRP would change their ability to sell THAT phone?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 11:37 AM
  18. anon1727506's Avatar
    I just want that someone explains me what's the advantage from a keyboard with 3 rows, no physical alt/sym/shift that is paired with a virtual keyboard, over a normal physical keyboard.

    In 5 threads, 100s of pages and 1000s of comments, nobody was able to do that.
    I just wonder, if there might be a reason for it (as in, there is no advantage).

    Posted via CB10
    Come on.... by owning this you will stand out like a banana in a monkey cage. Who wouldn't want that?







    I often wondered why BlackBerry hasn't given us tactile feedback with our virtual keyboards. Maybe in 10.3 that will finally arrive for the Passport (and other devices).
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 12:02 PM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Come on.... by owning this you will stand out like a banana in a monkey cage. Who wouldn't want that?







    I often wondered why BlackBerry hasn't given us tactile feedback with our virtual keyboards. Maybe in 10.3 that will finally arrive for the Passport (and other devices).
    1) Good one.
    Standing out is definitely a feature (if positive or negative, is another question).
    But I wonder about it from a usability standpoint.
    What do I gain in terms of usability?

    2) Very interesting question, as it's a pretty old and well known feature...
    Would habe probably killed the Z10 battery in minutes, instead of hours?
    No idea, good question.

    I wonder the same about text-reflow btw.

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 12:20 PM
  20. II ARROWS's Avatar
    I dont think you have to press the screen for the symbols. Just the physical button corrisponding to the location of the virtual button.
    Then you are wrong.
    No physical key is mapped to comma, question mark, exclamation mark.
    And removed the symmetric quotes from extended symbols (which are not fundamental anyway).
    You still cannot insert the symbol, but it's not a regression.

    The dot is in the second set of symbols (sometimes you don't need it at the end of a sentence when you can press space twice).

    And this is just for english...
    07-09-14 12:24 PM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Then you are wrong.
    No physical key is mapped to comma, question mark, exclamation mark.
    And removed the symmetric quotes from extended symbols (which are not fundamental anyway).
    You still cannot insert the symbol, but it's not a regression.

    The dot is in the second set of symbols (sometimes you don't need it at the end of a sentence when you can press space twice).

    And this is just for english...
    Are we sure that the virtual symbols on the VKB won't be mapped onto a physical key?
    Because my understanding is, that will be the case.
    As in, I want a # sign. To get it I have to press the sym key / swipe down and can then press a physical button corresponding to it?
    (would be the C on my Z10 keyboard)

    Because if this is not the case, then the concept is just hilariously bad.

    Posted via CB10
    currentodysseys likes this.
    07-09-14 12:33 PM
  22. nah.uhh's Avatar
    Are we sure that the virtual symbols on the VKB won't be mapped onto a physical key?
    Because my understanding is, that will be the case.
    As in, I want a # sign. To get it I have to press the sym key / swipe down and can then press a physical button corresponding to it?
    (would be the C on my Z10 keyboard)

    Because if this is not the case, then the concept is just hilariously bad.

    Posted via CB10
    It is hilariously bad ^
    07-09-14 12:45 PM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    It is hilariously bad ^
    We are not talking past each other and actually mean the same different thing?

    I have to double check on that...
    It won't work like it did with a legacy BlackBerry, where a virtual keyboard only came up when you pressed the "sym" key and you were able to press a physical key to get a symbol that was ONLY displayed on the VKB?
    Because that was how my Torch worked.

    We are sure by now, that we have to use the touchscreen for every symbol that is not displayed on the physical keyboard itself?
    I can't press buttons to get them?
    Like it worked on the legacy BlackBerries and the Q Series?
    (use, not as in being displayed even though that will be the case, but use, as in tapping the touchscreen)

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 12:54 PM
  24. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Are we sure that the virtual symbols on the VKB won't be mapped onto a physical key?
    Because my understanding is, that will be the case.
    Read again...
    07-09-14 01:04 PM
  25. tomsobon's Avatar
    slagman5,

    I'm tired of reading your negative posts or comments! what the hell man, what do you eat in the morning?
    Every post I see from you are aimed at complaining about something...

    You're now criticizing a device that is not yet out? come on man. seriously...
    07-09-14 01:06 PM
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