BB advertises the Passport more efficient than competition in using spreadsheets...

BlackBerry was advertising the form factor. Of the phone. They just use the spreadsheet as an example of how a high resolution square could come in handy

Response crafted in seconds on a Z30

Originally Posted by II ARROWS

Read again...

Yeah, I am not talking about them being printed on the keys, just mapped to them.
I hope my reading is just fine, because that was what I read.

I ask 5 times, because I can't believe that, if it's true.

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Originally Posted by MarsupilamiX

Yeah, I am not talking about them being printed on the keys, just mapped to them.
I hope my reading is just fine, because that was what I read.

I ask 5 times, because I can't believe that, if it's true.

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That is what I understand/deduct/guess/makes sense also:
Even though the vk will pop up (not the virtual row), by pressing on the corresponding key one would register the symbol input.

This would be the most logical transition from the current phkb on the Q series to the capacitive kb of the passport.

Damn... with each thread a new speculation is born page by page... we are doomed to a visceral back and forth of endless "cyber battles" on speculation... it kind of starts feeling a bit masochistic to keep it up :P

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Originally Posted by Timbosaurus

My point exactly! Many of the people on here who don't like the Passport keyboard seem to think that their view is the only correct one, and that those of us who are either undecided, don't care either way, or (heaven forbid) even like the new design must be delusional fanbois or non-QWERTY users. It's what is known as the 'no true Scotsman' logical fallacy.

Um, actually, it's quite the opposite. Go ahead and go back and reread it. My original comment made absolutely no assertion that the Passport is "bad" or "worse" the the competing phones. I merely point out that I think it could have potentially been even better. Then look at the responses from the majority of the people who disagreed with me. Hostile, calling me a whiner, calling me a troll, saying I'm crying, etc. Etc. So stop making it seem like you are the victim here. Any bad attitude toward dissenters is a RESPONSE to their first antagonistic comments toward me and others who agree with what I've said. Get your order of events straight. Thanks.

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Originally Posted by DueNorthBB

Actually a larger digitizer would mean:
a) higher costs (size of the digitizer, total size of device, and extra row of keys)
b) it would also also use more power. This could be partly offsetted by a larger battery which would go to point a) again... higher costs.

There must have been an engineering decision made with regards to this.
In an ideal world, we would have everything we want, however in reality there are compromises to be made.

I believe there must have been cases where they need to justify the costs vs. benefits of using a touch sensitive keyboard (besides another method to scroll and select items). One of those cases could be the ability to remove one row of keys.

The difference in a few mm's will be a difference in mere cents... I'm sure their profit margin for selling each device more than covers that. And if that's the reason, are you happy that they are cutting corners to make more profit rather than packing the phone with as much goodies as needed to maximize your experience?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Originally Posted by tomsobon

slagman5,

I'm tired of reading your negative posts or comments! what the hell man, what do you eat in the morning?
Every post I see from you are aimed at complaining about something...

You're now criticizing a device that is not yet out? come on man. seriously...

Tomsobon,

Then stop reading my posts. I'll miss you greatly. ;-)

And it's funny because at this very same time I'm being called a fanboy in another thread for saying good things about my Q10... smh

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Originally Posted by II ARROWS

Then you can add the virtual keyboard on the Galaxy Note. You'll see that the screen is bigger, even with keyboard enabled.

Nope. If the Note 3's keyboard takes up half of its screen the remaining screen above the VKB is 31% smaller than that of the Passport.

Originally Posted by II ARROWS

Then you are wrong.
No physical key is mapped to comma, question mark, exclamation mark.

Because those sit on the 4th row. But that doesn't mean that the full list pop up doesn't map to the hardware keys. Of course they are.

It would be tremendous if BlackBerry improve Doc To Go suite. I'm patiently waiting.

Using Z10, wanting Z30, eyeing Windermere

Originally Posted by --TommesJay--

Because those sit on the 4th row. But that doesn't mean that the full list pop up doesn't map to the hardware keys. Of course they are.

I'm surprised to see that people are still debating this.

If you were going to buy your ideal physical keyboard device, how would you like to select symbols/numbers?

Here are the options:

1) You can use the physical keys or the vkb to select symbols/numbers. A vkb will pop up and cover much of the content on the screen every time you need a non-contextual number or symbol. When typing an email which contains lots of numbers or symbols, the vkb will be constantly popping up and down getting in the way, even though you may be using the physical keys.

2) The symbols/numbers are printed on the physical keys. There is no requirement to look at the screen to learn symbol/number position. No vkb is popping up and getting in the way. The vkb may still be used for extended/uncommon symbols.

I would really struggle to justify option 1 over option 2. Can you?

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Originally Posted by slagman5

The difference in a few mm's will be a difference in mere cents... I'm sure their profit margin for selling each device more than covers that. And if that's the reason, are you happy that they are cutting corners to make more profit rather than packing the phone with as much goodies as needed to maximize your experience?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

No, you are wrong here. It is part of making a viable product. There is probably a price point selected where they deem will provide the maximum sales. Otherwise, all the BlackBerry phones will be like their Porsche designed one.

You want an oversized Q10 with a bigger and higher resolution screen plus capacitive keyboard. They wanted to make something different. The Passport as currently designed, is something different. Whenever there is something different, there is a learning curve to get used to it. I just hope it wouldn't be too bad. Remember for MOST of the time, the device will still be a media consumption device. The high resolution screen will allow this to happen with a good experience. What the keyboard will add is better content creation experience over a pure touch device. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but it should be better than what is currently out there.

Originally Posted by DueNorthBB

No, you are wrong here. It is part of making a viable product. There is probably a price point selected where they deem will provide the maximum sales. Otherwise, all the BlackBerry phones will be like their Porsche designed one.

You want an oversized Q10 with a bigger and higher resolution screen plus capacitive keyboard. They wanted to make something different. The Passport as currently designed, is something different. Whenever there is something different, there is a learning curve to get used to it. I just hope it wouldn't be too bad. Remember for MOST of the time, the device will still be a media consumption device. The high resolution screen will allow this to happen with a good experience. What the keyboard will add is better content creation experience over a pure touch device. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but it should be better than what is currently out there.

I understand price/demand elasticities.
And where you are probably wrong, is to assert that few more dollars would make a difference for the Passport.

It's such a special device, that a few dollars more or less shouldn't influence buyers that much.

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Originally Posted by 018125

I'm surprised to see that people are still debating this.

If you were going to buy your ideal physical keyboard device, how would you like to select symbols/numbers?

Here are the options:

1) You can use the physical keys or the vkb to select symbols/numbers. A vkb will pop up and cover much of the content on the screen every time you need a non-contextual number or symbol. When typing an email which contains lots of numbers or symbols, the vkb will be constantly popping up and down getting in the way, even though you may be using the physical keys.

2) The symbols/numbers are printed on the physical keys. There is no requirement to look at the screen to learn symbol/number position. No vkb is popping up and getting in the way. The vkb may still be used for extended/uncommon symbols.

I would really struggle to justify option 1 over option 2. Can you?

Perhaps the version shown hasn't had the symbols/numbers printed on it /yet/...

Here's a Nordic version of the Q10 keyboard, just to show not all Q10's have the same printed keys:

http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...ard-os-q10.jpg

Or perhaps BlackBerry is saving on costs and not producing a bunch of keyboard variations...

Originally Posted by slagman5

The difference in a few mm's will be a difference in mere cents... I'm sure their profit margin for selling each device more than covers that. And if that's the reason, are you happy that they are cutting corners to make more profit rather than packing the phone with as much goodies as needed to maximize your experience?

How do you know the new mix Kb is not going to maximize your experience, I don't even use a BB anymore, but you have based all this long and boring thread in speculation, maybe is time for Mods to close it, the only fact here is that the biggest screen and the 1:1 ratio allows you to have a better visual experience (spreadsheets) with the Passport than with any other smartphone in the market, we cant say anything about Kb "experience" because this product hasn't even reached the market.

Originally Posted by MarsupilamiX

I got that it's not traditional.
Hard to miss.

The point is though, that it doesn't make sense.
Who buys a physical keyboard phone, to type on a touchscreen?
The concept makes no sense whatsoever.

And no, they keys of the keyboard don't change depending on the context.
It's just one virtual row that will do that. A virtual row that is completely unneeded.

I asked you a number of times already:
What do I gain, through giving up a physical 4th row?
Or let's forget about the row, just the alt/sym/shift keys?
What do I gain, apart from less screen estate?

Nobody was able to answer that question.

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You gain the one virtual row that changes depending on what type of entry you are doing so that the symbols most needed are always right there, negating the need to swipe down / hit alt.

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Originally Posted by 018125

I'm surprised to see that people are still debating this.

If you were going to buy your ideal physical keyboard device, how would you like to select symbols/numbers?

Here are the options:

1) You can use the physical keys or the vkb to select symbols/numbers. A vkb will pop up and cover much of the content on the screen every time you need a non-contextual number or symbol. When typing an email which contains lots of numbers or symbols, the vkb will be constantly popping up and down getting in the way, even though you may be using the physical keys.

2) The symbols/numbers are printed on the physical keys. There is no requirement to look at the screen to learn symbol/number position. No vkb is popping up and getting in the way. The vkb may still be used for extended/uncommon symbols.

I would really struggle to justify option 1 over option 2. Can you?

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We weren't debating that. He claimed you'd have to type the pop up symbols on glass and that those aren't mapped to the hardware keys, using the punctuation marks on the 4th row as evidence, since those aren't mapped to hardware keys.

Originally Posted by MarsupilamiX

Yeah, I am not talking about them being printed on the keys, just mapped to them.
I hope my reading is just fine, because that was what I read.

Originally Posted by --TommesJay--

Because those sit on the 4th row. But that doesn't mean that the full list pop up doesn't map to the hardware keys. Of course they are.

Not from the pictures we saw from Bla1ze (http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...yboard-941720/).
The character I listed , ? ! “ ” are not mapped to physical keys (and dot only on second page) .
They only appear on the fourth virtual row.

Originally Posted by --TommesJay--

We weren't debating that. He claimed you'd have to type the pop up symbols on glass and that those aren't mapped to the hardware keys, using the punctuation marks on the 4th row as evidence, since those aren't mapped to hardware keys.

Oh, I thought he was just saying that common punctuation like full stops and commas can only be selected from the vkb and are not mapped to physical keys. Which, as far as I can tell from the leaked screenshots, appears to be accurate.

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Originally Posted by 018125

Oh, I thought he was just saying that common punctuation like full stops and commas can only be selected from the vkb and are not mapped to physical keys. Which, as far as I can tell from the leaked screenshots, appears to be accurate.

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Yes, communication can be confusing and complicated.
That was something I didn't even consider.
Thanks, that makes sense

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Here's another http://news.investors.com/070914-707...lled&ven=yahoo

Fat Mexican with a Z10 in CB10

Originally Posted by MarsupilamiX

I just want that someone explains me what's the advantage from a keyboard with 3 rows, no physical alt/sym/shift that is paired with a virtual keyboard, over a normal physical keyboard.

In 5 threads, 100s of pages and 1000s of comments, nobody was able to do that.
I just wonder, if there might be a reason for it (as in, there is no advantage).

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But just because nobody here posting on CB knows the answer, it doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable answer.

Originally Posted by DueNorthBB

No, you are wrong here. It is part of making a viable product. There is probably a price point selected where they deem will provide the maximum sales. Otherwise, all the BlackBerry phones will be like their Porsche designed one.

You want an oversized Q10 with a bigger and higher resolution screen plus capacitive keyboard. They wanted to make something different. The Passport as currently designed, is something different. Whenever there is something different, there is a learning curve to get used to it. I just hope it wouldn't be too bad. Remember for MOST of the time, the device will still be a media consumption device. The high resolution screen will allow this to happen with a good experience. What the keyboard will add is better content creation experience over a pure touch device. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but it should be better than what is currently out there.

Uh, the Porsche design phones are expensive mainly due to the name attached to them. The little bit of added hardware don't account for much. You really need to get updated on just how cheap these electronic components are now-a-days...

Originally Posted by 018125

Oh, I thought he was just saying that common punctuation like full stops and commas can only be selected from the vkb and are not mapped to physical keys. Which, as far as I can tell from the leaked screenshots, appears to be accurate.

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I thought he took this as evidence for all the rest of the symbols to be neither mapped.

Don't know why that would be a deal anyway. I prefer hitting the 4th row directly over a pop up for "!?".

I can't see anything other than letters on the physical keyboard in all the prototype images. I don't know if BB wanted a slightly shorter phone with a 3-row KB than a 4-row one but they should have added Alt, Shift and multiple keys per button e.g. numbers and punctuation. Having to use a VKB for numbers and punctuation totally defeats the purpose of having such a large square screen to begin with, not to mention being slower because of the user context switching. The upside is you only need QWERTY/AZERTY/QWERTZ variants instead of a bunch of language variants.

A Galaxy Note probably has more screen area for content with the VKB up compared to a Passport with both hard KB and VKB. A Nokia E61i - an ancient phone with the best keyboard in the business - looks a lot more efficient for typing than the Passport. If BB are pitching the Passport as something different for more productivity, I think they're missing out on the productivity part.

I think the symbols can be toggled down to just one row with the most useful symbols. The one shown on the picture is actually kind of intrusive but hey we don't know how it really works anyway. I just want docs2go to become a priority with blackberry. I mean come on a business phone should an feature rich office app.

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