[slagman5]

To be honest, I use spreadsheets for basically 90% of my work and I really don't see the big deal here. Personally, I would only use symbols if I was editing a formula and in my experience I would prefer to put a gun in my mouth then edit an excel formula on my phone. Well, that has been my experience with basically any phone thus far I have tried to use a spreadsheet on, so if the passport is an improvement in anyway I really don't see the gripe.

It seems to me, in my humble opinion, that this whole thread is just nit picking small details because you don't like the keyboard to begin with. Trying to run around waving a big flag screaming "look spreadsheets isn't really as good as they say it is or could be" doesn't have me convinced BB messed up the keyboard design. And, quite honestly, I am fairly certain BB's not going to change the keyboard at this point.

So, this is the second thread I've read by the OP with the exact same point being made but this time it's about how bad spreadsheets will be

Seriously, I know the standards in our schools have been quite low, but come on, learn to read on your own time. Where did I ever say that the experience is a bad one? I've stated in the original comment, and about 2 dozen times already in the comments and replies that I feel the Passport even in the worst-case scenario that it's a full virtual keyboard like in my mock-up, is still better than the competition. My point is simply that it isn't as good as it COULD POTENTIALLY BE if there was no need for ANY virtual buttons at all... Seriously guys, I'm getting really tired of repeating this and then seeing yet another reply about how I'm saying the Passport sucks or how using spreadsheets on the Passport looks so terrible... I hate to sound mean, but it's simple reading comprehension!

I mean, really:

"That's all I'm arguing, that it could potentially be that much more of an improvement, both while viewing, AND while editing. The way it is now, it's only a big improvement over the competition while viewing. Once you need to edit, it becomes pretty close..."

"Notice my original comment states that it makes the difference to be "not much" meaning I still think even with the virtual keyboard the Passport is still better, but just not nearly as much as it could have been had they kept the numbers and symbols on the physical keyboard."

"it will be "slightly" better than the competition. My point was never that it would be worse. My point is that it could have been A LOT better than the competition rather than only slightly better had they gone with a full keyboard..."

"I was never making the argument that even in my worst-case scenario of this example mock-up that the Passport is inferior to either of the competing phones, I was simply saying that it could have potentially been much better if NO virtual keyboard, whether full like that or even a one line virtual keyboard, was needed to get the job done."

"nowhere did I say that it is worse or bad, just not as good as it could be."

"nowhere did I imply that the phone is in anyway worse than the competition, but that it just isn't as good as it potentially could have been."

"just stating how much better it could be if NO virtual buttons would be needed at all. :-)"

I would break it down further, but I simply don't know how to make it more clear or more simple what I'm trying to state here...

[slagman5]

Here's the easy way out for Blackberry, A Physical Keyboard that has virtual numbers and letters appear as needed.
Problem solved... Next!

Um, that's exactly how it is, and that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out... *scratches head*

[ramxx]

I am sorry, but at this point i don't think that will EVER replace my lovely Microsoft Excel.

I tried every single app, but nothing replaces the computer excel sheet. Maybe it will be a nice addition to have on the phone incase i need to work on the go.

[hazarder]

And exactly how useful is your comment? Here's the same advice thrown back at you:

Don't read my posts

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Quit being butthurt. My comment can be as useful as you need it to be. Point is, you keep questioning and looking for answers that you will not find... and you know this, so why, why must you persist

Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30

[slagman5]

I am sorry, but at this point i don't think that will EVER replace my lovely Microsoft Excel.

I tried every single app, but nothing replaces the computer excel sheet. Maybe it will be a nice addition to have on the phone incase i need to work on the go.

Definitely nothing can replace your experience on the PC. But it'll be nice to actually have a phone where you can do some edits on the fly when you absolutely need to. The Passport is nice and wide for exactly that. Would have been even better if there was no need for any virtual keys though, but still nicer than before with the other phones available...

[matt4pack]

Well, then I guess it's safe to assume that means there is no merit to what I have brought up. Funny how you haven't stepped up to actually dispel any of the concerns. I'm sure you're just holding back, keeping up the mystery of course. And no, pointing out how it's "still better" isn't any kind of response since I never claimed that it wasn't better...

I find it hilarious when I mention something positive about BB, I'm all of a sudden a fanboy, then when I bring up a concern about a BB now I'm a troll. Can't you guys make up your mind? Or maybe get it through your thick skulls that I'll point out what I'm observing whether it is positive or negative? It's like small minds can't think in anything more complicated than black or white... smh

Maybe if you 3 would change the tone of your criticism people would be more open to discussing your opinions. The whole I know what's best and you better listen to me or it's doomed attitude.

When you have a attitude in your posts which seems to be a pattern then people are going to have an attitude back. If you lay out your points in a less condescending way like an adult to the people who like the device the way it is maybe you will get a better response. I think the responses you 3 get is the intent though.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

Quit being butthurt. My comment can be as useful as you need it to be. Point is, you keep questioning and looking for answers that you will not find... and you know this, so why, why must you persist

Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30

LMAO, butthurt is going into a thread you have absolutely no interest in reading just to point out how little interest you have in reading it... Remind you of someone? ;-)

[slagman5]

Maybe if you 3 would change the tone of your criticism people would be more open to discussing your opinions. The whole I know what's best and you better listen to me or it's doomed attitude.

When you have a attitude in your posts which seems to be a pattern then people are going to have an attitude back. If you lay out your points in a less condescending way to the people who like the device the way it is maybe you will get a better response. I think the response you 3 get is the intent though.

Posted via CB10

Really? What attitude? Read my original comment. How many times did I reclarify my position that I think it's still better than the competition, and how I just think they could have INCREASED the amount of improvement over the competition had they gone a different route? Where was there some super negative attitude? I'm acknowledging that if you buy a Passport you still will have a superior experience with spreadsheets over the competition... Yes, very negative... The only "attitude" came when people who cannot hear a single non-praise said about anything BB comes in here claiming all I'm doing is bashing BB and insinuating that I'm some Android fanboy... Funny, since I don't have a single Android device, or a single Apple device, but I have 3 BB devices... Then on another thread where I'm trying to say my "Cue10" (apparently spelling out how you pronounce the letters is the cool thing to do now so I'll jump on that bandwagon) has better battery life than my friend's Galaxy S4, now they are calling me a BB fanboy... Seriously, WTF? It's like you can't state an opinion without someone assuming you're either totally for or against something... Stop seeing everything in black and white already people...

[matt4pack]

Buy Surface Pro 3.

No thanks. I have a laptop that lets me get work done without awkwardly needing to touch the screen or carry an external mouse and keyboard to do any real work.

Posted via CB10

[last_attempt]

Um, that's exactly how it is, and that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out... *scratches head*

Just "pie in the sky speculating", I was trying to describe physical keys that actually changed themselves to what was needed through some type of virtual membrane on the key surface.
(if this technology isn't invented yet, I lay claim to it!)

[matt4pack]

Really? What attitude? Read my original comment. How many times did I reclarify my position that I think it's still better than the competition, and how I just think they could have INCREASED the amount of improvement over the competition had they gone a different route? Where was there some super negative attitude? I'm acknowledging that if you buy a Passport you still will have a superior experience with spreadsheets over the competition... Yes, very negative... The only "attitude" came when people who cannot hear a single non-praise said about anything BB comes in here claiming all I'm doing is bashing BB and insinuating that I'm some Android fanboy... Funny, since I don't have a single Android device, or a single Apple device, but I have 3 BB devices... Then on another thread where I'm trying to say my "Cue10" (apparently spelling out how you pronounce the letters is the cool thing to do now so I'll jump on that bandwagon) has better battery life than my friend's Galaxy S4, now they are calling me a BB fanboy... Seriously, WTF? It's like you can't state an opinion without someone assuming you're either totally for or against something... Stop seeing everything in black and white already people...

Well maybe that was directed more at the other 2. You did make your point well in the original post and then they jumped in. I can see your point but as some else said it will still be better for viewing but maybe not editing which is a concern.

Posted via CB10

[nah.uhh]

All fair points, but I rarely input numbers into spreadsheet on the phone, I mosty use it for reviewing spreadsheet, in which case Passport's screen will still be huge advantage over competition.

Interesting comparison of the keyboards... I wonder how would it look like if they keep the new keyboard layout but print numbers and commonly used special characters on it, allowing direct input from the physical keys.


Posted via CB10

:'(!! Never even thought about this! Most of my spreadsheets are used for calculations! In other words, anytime I edit a spreadsheet, I'm using the number pad... so yea.. smh

[slagman5]

No thanks. I have a laptop that lets me get work done without awkwardly needing to touch the screen or carry an external mouse and keyboard to do any real work.

Posted via CB10

I just sold my laptop, wouldn't mind a Surface Pro 3, but WAY too expensive now... I really don't like the whole metro UI of Windows 8, but with the Surface Pro, it works out for me because of the pen/stylus. I need something I can quickly scribble on, taking notes that involve a lot of symbols and even some diagrams, too quickly for a device without a touchscreen and stylus to keep up with. I also like how portable the Surface is compared to a full fledged laptop. But that's really about it, I don't like anything else about the whole touchscreen interface of the new windows... Thus why my home Desktop is still sporting Windows 7 Professional... The Ultimate version was like twice the price when I bought it, and the only real difference is the ability to quickly swap languages, which isn't something I need anyway...

[slagman5]

Just "pie in the sky speculating", I was trying to describe physical keys that actually changed themselves to what was needed through some type of virtual membrane on the key surface.
(if this technology isn't invented yet, I lay claim to it!)

That would be cool. I'm sure the technology is at the very least close to being there...

[slagman5]

Well maybe that was directed more at the other 2. You did make your point well in the original post and then they jumped in. I can see your point but as some else said it will still be better for viewing but maybe not editing which is a concern.

Posted via CB10

Even for editing I still think it'll be better, since the Passport is wider than the rest, and using the others in landscape is even worse because then their keyboard will take up like 3/4 of the screen, lol. So no matter what, I think the Passport is better than the competition in both editing and viewing spreadsheets, but just think how awesome it could have been if there was no virtual keys at all...

[DueNorthBB]

Slagman5, I believe the reason they left it out is due to technical issue with the touch keyboard. If you check out the development spec, the touch area is a direct mapping on top of the normal keyboard.

Your golden passport to BlackBerry 10.3 | BlackBerry Developer Blog

It is shaped as a rectangle to make it easier for the technology to function. This could be why MOST capacitive screens are rectangle in shape.

With that in mind, if we use your mock up with 4 rows. the last row will have SHIFT, 0, SPACE, PERIOD(.), and SHIFT only. 5 keys. If we remove one of the SHIFT (since it does the same thing), it would be 4. That's a lot of space for only 4 keys.

So what they did is move the Space bar up and removed the ALT on the 3rd row.

The 4 missing physical keys would be SHIFT, 0, Period, and ALT which the virtual screen is setup to help with.

Now the key is for people to start to memorize the location of the keys. That could take a bit of time. Once you learned it, you wouldn't need the virtual screens anymore (and free up the screen space).

What I would like to see is:
- The ability to turn OFF the virtual keyboard help screen after you use it for a while... or a way to quick toggle it when needed.
- The pop up help shouldn't resize the screen content (like what you mocked up). It should be an overlay with perhaps degrees of transparency offered.

[BlackberryFan777]

No, I meant exactly what I said. Thanks.

This thread is about BlackBerry advertising a better Spreadsheet experience versus the competition.

But, MS Office Mobile for both iOS and Android is awful. A little better than Docs2Go, but still nearly worthless.

If Docs2Go was updated to work well with Cloud services, specifically Google Apps, I might even prefer it.

-- B.



Posted via CB10

[FCSC]

With that in mind, if we use your mock up with 4 rows. the last row will have SHIFT, 0, SPACE, PERIOD(.), and SHIFT only. 5 keys. If we remove one of the SHIFT (since it does the same thing), it would be 4. That's a lot of space for only 4 keys.

So what they did is move the Space bar up and removed the ALT on the 3rd row.

good point and that makes sense, no point in having a row with only 4 keys... that being said, what would have stopped them from making 2 extra keys on either side of the bottom row?

Make them either programmable shortcut buttons, OR, super revolutionary.. make the left one the short cut for the phone app and pick up / disconnect, and the right one camera. (granted the last option would mean the passport would need its own software since the on screen shortcuts would be duplicated, but i'm sure if blackberry can make BB10, they can make it an option to show those on screen shortcuts or not)

[slagman5]

Slagman5, I believe the reason they left it out is due to technical issue with the touch keyboard. If you check out the development spec, the touch area is a direct mapping on top of the normal keyboard.

Your golden passport to BlackBerry 10.3 | BlackBerry Developer Blog

It is shaped as a rectangle to make it easier for the technology to function. This could be why MOST capacitive screens are rectangle in shape.

With that in mind, if we use your mock up with 4 rows. the last row will have SHIFT, 0, SPACE, PERIOD(.), and SHIFT only. 5 keys. If we remove one of the SHIFT (since it does the same thing), it would be 4. That's a lot of space for only 4 keys.

So what they did is move the Space bar up and removed the ALT on the 3rd row.

The 4 missing physical keys would be SHIFT, 0, Period, and ALT which the virtual screen is setup to help with.

Now the key is for people to start to memorize the location of the keys. That could take a bit of time. Once you learned it, you wouldn't need the virtual screens anymore (and free up the screen space).

What I would like to see is:
- The ability to turn OFF the virtual keyboard help screen after you use it for a while... or a way to quick toggle it when needed.
- The pop up help shouldn't resize the screen content (like what you mocked up). It should be an overlay with perhaps degrees of transparency offered.

Thanks for the civil dissenting reply. What a breath of fresh air. And actually I know about the whole rectangular limitations of digitizers, LCD and LED screens have that same limitation (well, they are working on tech to remove that, should be out very soon) but it's still doable. They could simply make it a rectangle tall enough to cover the fourth row, but the corners are just covered with the plastic so only the exposed shift, 0, space, and the other shift key would be usable. Or they could simply make the bottom row keys slightly wider with a wider space bar and that'll easily make it rectangular. Never hurts to have a nice sized space bar because that's the key you hit the most often. Or just extend the shift keys out to the edge and keep everything else the same. Either way, there are many options that, in my opinion, are better than what they ended up with...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

But, MS Office Mobile for both iOS and Android is awful. A little better than Docs2Go, but still nearly worthless.

If Docs2Go was updated to work well with Cloud services, specifically Google Apps, I might even prefer it.

-- B.



Posted via CB10

Docs2Go doesn't recognize all of the equations and functions from excel. One of my spreadsheets that I made to keep track of hours and pay doesn't work when loaded with docs2go, if it works with excel, then that'll make a whole world of difference. Once the Classic comes out and if I decide to get it, I might side load it to see if it works... Or hopefully they improve docs2go soon...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[dejanh]

Even for editing I still think it'll be better, since the Passport is wider than the rest, and using the others in landscape is even worse because then their keyboard will take up like 3/4 of the screen, lol. So no matter what, I think the Passport is better than the competition in both editing and viewing spreadsheets, but just think how awesome it could have been if there was no virtual keys at all...

This is the first comment you made that I can actually agree to...I still have faith in the current design but let's see how it plays out.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[slagman5]

This is the first comment you made that I can actually agree to...I still have faith in the current design but let's see how it plays out.

Posted via CrackBerry App

In that case, I change my mind. I'm not really sure which part of that comment, but I change my mind about something...

Edit: But seriously though, the most hilarious part about this is, this is the point I've been saying this entire post. So somehow, you disagree with it the first 20 times I say it, then agree with it on the 21st... :-D

[Jiggy1971]

"Whaaa Whaaa Whaaa I hate something I haven't even used yet."

It's like a child telling you they don't like something to eat without trying it. Come on folks. Open your mind and try it before you knock it.

[slagman5]

"Whaaa Whaaa Whaaa I hate something I haven't even used yet."

It's like a child telling you they don't like something to eat without trying it. Come on folks. Open your mind and try it before you knock it.

Maybe you could open your eyes and learn how to read. Where do you read anyone saying they hate anything or think that anything is bad?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[hazarder]

LMAO, butthurt is going into a thread you have absolutely no interest in reading just to point out how little interest you have in reading it... Remind you of someone? ;-)

I actually did have interest in reading this thread, and I did. But after seeing it's you, yet again, with the same gripe about the keyboard; I then chose not to read past the first page. I never pointed anything out other than the fact that there's not much point in trying to argue your view point or your questions. Like I've said before, unless Chen himself or a BlackBerry employee chooses to come on here to clear things up(doubt it), your questions will not be answered.
This thread will be endless with argument/speculation/opinion until September.

Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30