[JRSCCivic98]

Jailbreak doesn't count because it's not a solution by Apple. So when arguing that RIM is withholding something from you, you can't compare it to what Apple is providing by using jailbreaking as an example.

And no business will buy an iPhone to use a feature available via jailbreaking.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Subjectively agree, but OS4 will make this moot anyway.

Besides, you've seen people on here post that they use Jailbroken iPhones on their company's email servers. A few of those users own those companies too. Again, it's all subjective to what applies. Not everyone lives in synthmole land. I will say this.... I find it interesting you justify certain things as the only possible valid viewpoint because Mike L. and most RIM people see it the same way. You guys have this thing about things in the field only happening one way and you cannot break from that mentality. This is one of the major reasons why RIM's not making great leaps in advancement. It's like you guys are stuck following a set of prime directives and you can't just come up with an out of box solution to something on the spot.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[travelingfool]

If you are forced to carry a phone and your employer does not reimburse your expenses, its a tax deduction. So you are not paying for it out of pocket.

True, yet not entirely true. A tax deduction isn't a reimbursement of expenses. You don't recoup 100% of an expense by claiming it as a tax deduction.

This is a simplistic example for brevity's sake, but for instance, if you are claiming an expense of $1000.00 and you are in a 35% tax bracket, a tax deduction means that you don't pay taxes on that $1000.00. 35% of $1000.00 is $350.00. So in this example, your real-world "reimbursement" on a $1000.00 expenditure is only $350.00.

It is a common misconception that tax deduction/reimbursement is a 1:1 ratio, but it's not.



Edit: To clarify, when you claim a tax deduction, you are only saving the taxes that you would have paid on the amount you are claiming, not the entire amount of the deduction itself. This is why it drives me nuts when I hear friends who own businesses say that they need to buy something they don't really need before January because their tax bill is going to be too large. This is in essence saying you need to spend 10 grand so you can save $3500.00 on your tax bill. If it's something you need, that's one thing, but to do it solely for the purpose of reducing your tax liability is illogical, and any accountant worth his salt will tell you so.

[i7guy]

True, yet not entirely true. A tax deduction isn't a reimbursement of expenses. You don't recoup 100% of an expense by claiming it as a tax deduction.

This is a simplistic example for brevity's sake, but for instance, if you are claiming an expense of $1000.00 and you are in a 35% tax bracket, a tax deduction means that you don't pay taxes on that $1000.00. 35% of $1000.00 is $350.00. So in this example, your real-world "reimbursement" on a $1000.00 expenditure is only $350.00.

It is a common misconception that tax deduction/reimbursement is a 1:1 ratio, but it's not.

Edit: To clarify, when you claim a tax deduction, you are only saving the taxes that you would have paid on the amount you are claiming, not the entire amount of the deduction itself. This is why it drives me nuts when I hear friends who own businesses say that they need to buy something they don't really need before January because their tax bill is going to be too large. This is in essence saying you need to spend 10 grand so you can save $3500.00 on your tax bill. If it's something you need, that's one thing, but to do it solely for the purpose of reducing your tax liability is illogical, and any accountant worth his salt will tell you so.

The amount of the expense should directly reduce your tax liability.

[travelingfool]

The amount of the expense should directly reduce your tax liability.

I'm not sure you read what I posted. It does reduce it...by the amount of your tax rate. It's not a one to one correlation. I'm not talking about "should," I'm talking about "does." When you claim a deduction, the amount of the deduction is subtracted from your taxable income, so your taxable income is reduced by the amount of the deduction. Please reread my example above.

You do not pay $1000 less in taxes if you claim a $1000 deduction. You are really only getting about a 3rd (or whatever your tax bracket is) back.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[i7guy]

It's not odd. As a matter of fact, it happens more often then you think. The problem is that all your know of BB and enterprise BES email and support is what you've seen in your company, which is fairly large. There are companies out there with less then 100 employees which employ BES but don't follow the SOP you're accustomed to. For those, it not uncommon for personal BBs and other smartphones to be used for work email as long as they're on the approved lists. These same companies also have fairly open BES policies that push to the BBs, but that depends on the company and the user in question.

It's not as black and white out there as you think it is synth. Always try to keep an open mind to different possibilities. After all, there's no written rule that says only company issues BBs can be BES activated. (Well, maybe at your company, lol)

Also, when I discuss and fight foe these issues, I don't always do it only for my own personal needs. There are others out there that share my viewpoints and want the same thing. (This is probably why you don't understand why I'm still on a BB.)



I think this is the first humble quote I've seen from you.

And I agree that full mailbox sync via BIS would murder BES practically overnight. However, I would have liked to see BESX implemented in the cloud rather then locally. Unfortunately, RIM lacks the software technology to do this yet without putting the BES server internal to the enterprise network to facilitate their mail server attachment and outgoing private tunneling back to the NOC.

What I'd like to see is a lightweight conduit plugin that can load on email servers to facilitate the needed protocol tunneling, but move the BES administration to the cloud. That would greatly remove the costs associated with extra servers to run BES and the maintenance hours to maintain/upgrade it.

I think you can agree that this would be a good thing for the end users (companies and admins included). As a matter of fact, I think we will see a trend of such transitions with the next BIS upgrade that will bring non-BES users cloud (BIS portal website) controls for wiping and locking devices as needed.... something only BES admins/users have had the privilege to use up till now.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

BES is more than pushing email as you know. It's a security structure, that is not being killed of overnight. You are right a business of less than 100 employees with pirated software and jailbroken phones might not care might not care about SOP.

But 99.99% do not have your issue either.

[i7guy]

I'm not sure you read what I posted. It does reduce it...by the amount of your tax rate. It's not a one to one correlation. I'm not talking about "should," I'm talking about "does." When you claim a deduction, the amount of the deduction is subtracted from your taxable income, so your taxable income is reduced by the amount of the deduction. Please reread my example above.

You do not pay $1000 less in taxes if you claim a $1000 deduction. You are really only getting about a 3rd (or whatever your tax bracket is) back.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

With these business expenses you should be able to reduce your tax liability dollar for dollar. I had a situation like this with a former employer.

[i7guy]

Why is Jailbreaking irrelevant and doesn't count? Because you want it not to? Are you going to come up with another excuse in June when OS4 enables this capability nativly?

BTW, even if you tax deduct it, it's still out of pocket expense until you file yearly and get it back. Just saying...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Lol. This thread is now going be a fervent discussion about the IRS Tax Code.

@travellingfool...just sayin', it's what I did.

[travelingfool]

Lol. This thread is now going be a fervent discussion about the IRS Tax Code.

@travellingfool...just sayin', it's what I did.

Lol, sorry, I don't want it to digress into that either, but let's just say I hope there's not an audit in your near future. It would get ugly

I'll leave you with this and then I'll back off.

I think this is the best way to describe it. If you claim a $1000 deduction, you don't pay $1000 less in taxes, rather, you pay taxes on $1000 less; big difference.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[i7guy]

Lol, sorry, I don't want it to digress into that either, but let's just say I hope there's not an audit in your near future. It would get ugly

I'll leave you with this and then I'll back off.

I think this is the best way to describe it. If you claim a $1000 deduction, you don't pay $1000 less in taxes, rather, you pay taxes on $1000 less; big difference.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It was over 7 years ago, probably not. Not saying any more either.

[JRSCCivic98]

Not to mention that if you're really using the thing you're deducting as a business expese for personal use as well, you cannot realistically deduct the full amount either. Tax law sucks, but the rule of thumb is... unless it's all business, don't try and deduct it as uncle Sam will get ya eventually. It's like if you drove your own car for a delivery business. You can deduct whatever is used for business alone, but you couldn't deduct personal use of the vehicle after work hours and weekend. And that's when it gets to be a pain because you have to keep maticulous milage records in case you do get audited. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Anyway, that's enough about taxes. lol



BTW i7, how exactly does a company with less then 100 employees that might have some with jailbroken iPhones all of a sudden sink to using pirated software? lol

Some of you guys really make me laugh. You think that anything or anybody that doesn't fly like you is all of a sudden malitious and up to no good.

Also, I agree that BES won't be going away anytime soon, but there are ways for RIM to improve upon it (like I discussed above) and still be able to charge an arm and a leg for it.

[i7guy]

Not to mention that if you're really using the thing you're deducting as a business expese for personal use as well, you cannot realistically deduct the full amount either. Tax law sucks, but the rule of thumb is... unless it's all business, don't try and deduct it as uncle Sam will get ya eventually. It's like if you drove your own car for a delivery business. You can deduct whatever is used for business alone, but you couldn't deduct personal use of the vehicle after work hours and weekend. And that's when it gets to be a pain because you have to keep maticulous milage records in case you do get audited. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Anyway, that's enough about taxes. lol



BTW i7, how exactly does a company with less then 100 employees that might have some with jailbroken iPhones all of a sudden sink to using pirated software? lol

Some of you guys really make me laugh. You think that anything or anybody that doesn't fly like you is all of a sudden malitious and up to no good.

Also, I agree that BES won't be going away anytime soon, but there are ways for RIM to improve upon it (like I discussed above) and still be able to charge an arm and a leg for it.

If you mix business and personal that is between you, your company and the IRS. Many people carry two phones around for that purpose. The IRS is even attempting to add a value tax to phones given to employees by their companies...but I digress.

My point was that small companies can be very lax in a lot of aspects. Some have huge operational risks that could sink their businesses. Imagine your doctor using his jailbroken iphone with patient information on it, hacked. Or your jailbroken iphone with your ssn and banking information subject to a drive by hack. I digress even further into the pit of /OT.

It sounds like the new iphone OS will solve your operational issues. You could keep your BES account on your BBery and the other multiple exchange servers on your iphone. You will have the best of both worlds.

[JRSCCivic98]

My point was that small companies can be very lax in a lot of aspects. Some have huge operational risks that could sink their businesses. Imagine your doctor using his jailbroken iphone with patient information on it, hacked. Or your jailbroken iphone with your ssn and banking information subject to a drive by hack. I digress even further into the pit of /OT.

OK, first of all, Jailbreaking an iPhone makes it no less secure then leaving it locked from the sense of the overall security of the device. Yes, it's true, that stupid users who Jailbreak 9 times out of 10 leave SSH open and the default password set after that, but that's "the stupid user". That same user is probably the same one that sets up wireless at their home or business and leave it wide open. To generalize and say that a Jailbroken iPhone is unsecure from the pure fact that it's Jailbroken is no less stupid then generalizing that a Blackberry is unsecure if it's not password locked. Come on... you have to agree with me on that one. Not only that, but we know full well there's info phishing programs that can be installed on a BB to make them just as unsecure. Sure, not everyone would install such programs, but you get the idea I'm trying to pass on here. We can sit back and argue about what's more secure until the cows come home, and not get anywhere. Heck, for that matter, I know IT individuals who swear that a BB that's not on BES is not secure at all. As you can see, different people have different view on what is and isn't secure. A loaded gun is secure to one person while not secure to the other... same thing here, just different subject matter.

There comes a responsibility with using "open" technology. Generalizing it and saying something installed on an open iPhone because it's not off the official Apple app store is unsecure is no different then getting a BB app from a 3rd party that's malitious. Sure, signed apps on BB are the only ones that can access certain user stored data, but there's really nothing stopping a person from obtaining a signature license from RIM and signing the app to make it work. In the end, that would be more hassle then it's worth and easily trackable to the orignial coder or their accomplices, but the possibility is there to wreak havoc via this means. Does that mean the BB platform is any less secure... no... same thing really for other platforms. It's the ease of hacks and the stupidity of the end users that tickles the minds of the hackers. Why bother with BB (when most of them may be on locked down BES infrastructures anyway that can't user install anything) when the iPhone and Android platforms are easier to use and get to more "non savvy" users who might fall for whatever hack you may have, be it social engineerd or direct.

[i7guy]

OK, first of all, Jailbreaking an iPhone makes it no less secure then leaving it locked from the sense of the overall security of the device. Yes, it's true, that stupid users who Jailbreak 9 times out of 10 leave SSH open and the default password set after that, but that's "the stupid user". That same user is probably the same one that sets up wireless at their home or business and leave it wide open. To generalize and say that a Jailbroken iPhone is unsecure from the pure fact that it's Jailbroken is no less stupid then generalizing that a Blackberry is unsecure if it's not password locked. Come on... you have to agree with me on that one. Not only that, but we know full well there's info phishing programs that can be installed on a BB to make them just as unsecure. Sure, not everyone would install such programs, but you get the idea I'm trying to pass on here. We can sit back and argue about what's more secure until the cows come home, and not get anywhere. Heck, for that matter, I know IT individuals who swear that a BB that's not on BES is not secure at all. As you can see, different people have different view on what is and isn't secure. A loaded gun is secure to one person while not secure to the other... same thing here, just different subject matter.

There comes a responsibility with using "open" technology. Generalizing it and saying something installed on an open iPhone because it's not off the official Apple app store is unsecure is no different then getting a BB app from a 3rd party that's malitious. Sure, signed apps on BB are the only ones that can access certain user stored data, but there's really nothing stopping a person from obtaining a signature license from RIM and signing the app to make it work. In the end, that would be more hassle then it's worth and easily trackable to the orignial coder or their accomplices, but the possibility is there to wreak havoc via this means. Does that mean the BB platform is any less secure... no... same thing really for other platforms. It's the ease of hacks and the stupidity of the end users that tickles the minds of the hackers. Why bother with BB (when most of them may be on locked down BES infrastructures anyway that can't user install anything) when the iPhone and Android platforms are easier to use and get to more "non savvy" users who might fall for whatever hack you may have, be it social engineerd or direct.

I have to disagree with you. Users who leave their Blackberries unlocked do not have their BBs become vulnerable due to operating system default password hacks. They are the same type of users who run everything in administrator on pcs or have zero type of anti-virus or malware protection.

You can not do a drive by, or least I am not aware of any, on a Blackberry. In addition, you know all about BES and those security features. You might be able hack a blackberry through 'social engineering' techniques, as was warned about the Olympics, but you can't walk through the back door. The most sophisticated security system in the world won't protect your home if you don't turn it on.

The fact that an iphone can even be jailbroken, might not matter to a business with a small number of employees, where the owner or ceo wears every hat. But the CTOs for large BES accounts, the multinational corporations, will not let iphone into their fold for that very reason. (IMHO)

While I'm sure some enterprising person can invisibly hack a Blackberry on BIS without the users knowledge, it would be virtually impossibile to do on BES.

[Jake Storm]

It hardly looks like an upgrade. Look at the screenshot of the homescreen. How does that look any different than now???

Just because it looks familiar doesn't mean it's not improved.
I think the engineering team at RIM were aiming to keep it looking familiar. If it was totally different, people would be complaining about that too.

[stuaw11]

I have to disagree with you. Users who leave their Blackberries unlocked do not have their BBs become vulnerable due to operating system default password hacks. They are the same type of users who run everything in administrator on pcs or have zero type of anti-virus or malware protection.

the jailbreak backdoor isnt a curcunvention of the iphone password. Its when the SSH is left open and done wirelessly by someone who is sophisticated in programming. The average person even with medium to advanced computer skills wont be able to accomplish this, it takes a sophisticated programmer to even get in this SSH method.

Its a totally different type of hole, that as Civic said, if youre dumb enough to leave open then its like not password protecting your device and leaving it in a crowded room. The iphone password lock works just fine as in-person protection and will only be better in 4.0 where you can enter any word/phrase/number/etc or combination of those. Its still no better or worse than BB's password protection.

The most sophisticated security system in the world won't protect your home if you don't turn it on.

Exactly, and if people leave the SSH password as the default, which is the root of this hole, then whos fault is that? If you dont change the default password then you havent enabled security fully. If you do change it, theres no way someone will access your phone through this hole.

While I'm sure some enterprising person can invisibly hack a Blackberry on BIS without the users knowledge, it would be virtually impossibile to do on BES.

But you have to remember only 50% or so of RIM's business is corporate or BES customers. Lots of smaller to medium size businesses simply cant afford the costs of BES and therefore arent using that security.



Security is all how you use it, and BB on BIS, iphone, Android etc are all just as secure as the next if you use the security features of the platform (and change the default SSH on a jailbroken phone)

[Jake Storm]

...Now, the device it was on I think was the slider. Reason? Storm series is tied to Verizon and has a bad reputation, yet an ATT rep was showing this OS off supposedly. The only touchscreen device we know of that is not a Storm is the slider. What do y'all think?

Or the Storm3

[i7guy]

the jailbreak backdoor isnt a curcunvention of the iphone password. Its when the SSH is left open and done wirelessly by someone who is sophisticated in programming. The average person even with medium to advanced computer skills wont be able to accomplish this, it takes a sophisticated programmer to even get in this SSH method.

Its a totally different type of hole, that as Civic said, if youre dumb enough to leave open then its like not password protecting your device and leaving it in a crowded room. The iphone password lock works just fine as in-person protection and will only be better in 4.0 where you can enter any word/phrase/number/etc or combination of those. Its still no better or worse than BB's password protection.



Exactly, and if people leave the SSH password as the default, which is the root of this hole, then whos fault is that? If you dont change the default password then you havent enabled security fully. If you do change it, theres no way someone will access your phone through this hole.





But you have to remember only 50% or so of RIM's business is corporate or BES customers. Lots of smaller to medium size businesses simply cant afford the costs of BES and therefore arent using that security.



Security is all how you use it, and BB on BIS, iphone, Android etc are all just as secure as the next if you use the security features of the platform (and change the default SSH on a jailbroken phone)

That an iphone can be jailbroken and hacked is the issue to begin with. For that fact alone in many places iphone users will still be limited to webmail.exchange.com.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

That an iphone can be jailbroken and hacked is the issue to begin with. For that fact alone in many places iphone users will still be limited to webmail.exchange.com.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Anything can be hacked thats the main point, just BB hasnt YET.

Its no different than hacking into a PC, which all corporations and governments use. Its the security tools and measures that you implement in your whole operation, not just the phone, to keep them secure which are the barrier.

By your reasoning then, no company or government should use Windows, or any computers at that, because they can be hacked.

[i7guy]

Anything can be hacked thats the main point, just BB hasnt YET.

Its no different than hacking into a PC, which all corporations and governments use. Its the security tools and measures that you implement in your whole operation, not just the phone, to keep them secure which are the barrier.

By your reasoning then, no company or government should use Windows, or any computers at that, because they can be hacked.

Your a little off base. Nobody is jail breaking Windows. Mostly they are tied down with group policy and security cables. I think by your reasoning any hacked secure secure device should be used and is as secure as every other non hacked device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

Your a little off base. Nobody is jail breaking Windows. Mostly they are tied down with group policy and security cables. I think by your reasoning any hacked secure secure device should be used and is as secure as every other non hacked device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You really dont think Windows can be hacked or malicious things put in it? It doesnt need to be "jailbroken" of sorts, its already plenty vulnerable out of the box. Again, its the way you treat it and the tools you use on TOP of the OS which secure it, as you even pointed out with group policies and security cables.

Furthermore there are multiple steps to get this SSH entry way. SSH is NOT installed natively with the jailbreak. You have to physically download it in Cydia manually, and most downlaod it because they know what theyre doing (and will change the default password). I highly doubt many out there are randomly downloading SSH.

And its a moot point anyways, if youre paranoid dont jailbreak in the first place!! No legit security risk job is using jailbroken phones to begin with anyways. Less than 10% of iphones are even jailbroken- most likely mostly general consumer users where security isnt an issue.

[bjones521]

Does the os look very touch screen oriented to you guys?? I hope this works well with the bold!

[i7guy]

You really dont think Windows can be hacked or malicious things put in it? It doesnt need to be "jailbroken" of sorts, its already plenty vulnerable out of the box. Again, its the way you treat it and the tools you use on TOP of the OS which secure it, as you even pointed out with group policies and security cables.

Furthermore there are multiple steps to get this SSH entry way. SSH is NOT installed natively with the jailbreak. You have to physically download it in Cydia manually, and most downlaod it because they know what theyre doing (and will change the default password). I highly doubt many out there are randomly downloading SSH.

And its a moot point anyways, if youre paranoid dont jailbreak in the first place!! No legit security risk job is using jailbroken phones to begin with anyways. Less than 10% of iphones are even jailbroken- most likely mostly general consumer users where security isnt an issue.

You in fact can do whatever you want to whatever version of Windows is running on your PC. That is not my point. My point is the version of windows running on my desktop at work has very limited capability tied down with advanced software. I'm not doing anything to it. I'm not jailbreaking it. I'm not installing anything I don't get advanced permission to do. Highly unlikely I will ever get a virus.

You also in fact can do whatever you want to your iphone I don't care. Apple may care for warranty service, but I don't... I hold no emotional attachment to doing whatever you can do to your iphone.

Just don't ask me if you can attach your iphone or any iphone in any way shape or form to my network. The answer is no, has been no and will be no for the foreseeable future. At this point in time the same policy applies to Driod.

[stuaw11]

You in fact can do whatever you want to whatever version of Windows is running on your PC. That is not my point. My point is the version of windows running on my desktop at work has very limited capability tied down with advanced software. I'm not doing anything to it. I'm not jailbreaking it. I'm not installing anything I don't get advanced permission to do. Highly unlikely I will ever get a virus.

You also in fact can do whatever you want to your iphone I don't care. Apple may care for warranty service, but I don't... I hold no emotional attachment to doing whatever you can do to your iphone.

Just don't ask me if you can attach your iphone or any iphone in any way shape or form to my network. The answer is no, has been no and will be no. At this point the same policy applies to Driod.

I forgot "your" security policy is the only one out there

[i7guy]

I forgot "your" security policy is the only one out there

Well it does rival those of a number fortune 500 companies. It clearly isn't the let me attach any ol' jailbroken iphone to my companies network and let the chips fall where they may, security policy.

[sivan]

It's not odd. As a matter of fact, it happens more often then you think. The problem is that all your know of BB and enterprise BES email and support is what you've seen in your company, which is fairly large. There are companies out there with less then 100 employees which employ BES but don't follow the SOP you're accustomed to. For those, it not uncommon for personal BBs and other smartphones to be used for work email as long as they're on the approved lists. These same companies also have fairly open BES policies that push to the BBs, but that depends on the company and the user in question.

It's not as black and white out there as you think it is synth. Always try to keep an open mind to different possibilities. After all, there's no written rule that says only company issues BBs can be BES activated. (Well, maybe at your company, lol)

Also, when I discuss and fight foe these issues, I don't always do it only for my own personal needs. There are others out there that share my viewpoints and want the same thing. (This is probably why you don't understand why I'm still on a BB.)

Right, but the company chose BES. BES requires that fees are paid for each user. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a product for which fees are charged by the number of users. The company has a group of users for which this product was purchased, most commonly management and critical infrastructure personnel, and they deem it worthwhile to pay for each of these users to be on BES.

It sounds to me that you are not one of those users, but your company is still flexible enough to grant you an account, using your own device, and with you paying your own fees. That sounds fair to me. If you personally believe you role would benefit from a BES account, pay your own way.

From the tone of your posts, you make it sound like RIM is to blame for your exploitation. But what I understand is that the company didn't require you to buy a personal BlackBerry and pay for a BES account, you did it on your own initiative.

So I think the question is, if you chose to use a personal BlackBerry, why did you? RIM didn't force itself on you, you could buy something else, maybe a Windows Mobile phone. I'm trying to understand how you chose a BlackBerry but now describe it as something akin to exploitation.

And I agree that full mailbox sync via BIS would murder BES practically overnight.

See, that's the problem with the way you discuss what RIM should do. It's a business, and they need to make money. BIS is already a great benefit for users, although it's poorly understood.

Your ideas below about BESX are more constructive and something I'd be interested in reading. But demanding that RIM be an entirely different business altogether just begs the question. If you don't think their service is useful, why are you using it?

Or just convince your company to change its policy. I'm sure your company's policy is far easier to change than trying to get RIM to change their business model by posting on public forums.

However, I would have liked to see BESX implemented in the cloud rather then locally. Unfortunately, RIM lacks the software technology to do this yet without putting the BES server internal to the enterprise network to facilitate their mail server attachment and outgoing private tunneling back to the NOC.

What I'd like to see is a lightweight conduit plugin that can load on email servers to facilitate the needed protocol tunneling, but move the BES administration to the cloud. That would greatly remove the costs associated with extra servers to run BES and the maintenance hours to maintain/upgrade it.

I think you can agree that this would be a good thing for the end users (companies and admins included). As a matter of fact, I think we will see a trend of such transitions with the next BIS upgrade that will bring non-BES users cloud (BIS portal website) controls for wiping and locking devices as needed.... something only BES admins/users have had the privilege to use up till now.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yes, those features would be nice. We all know that BlackBerries originated in the corporate environment so there are some migration pains when it comes to consumers using this technology. So it's not for everyone, particularly those that need to connect to multiple enterprise accounts, something that RIM hasn't served in the past. Maybe they will figure out a way to serve that need, but it's easy to see why things are the way they are for historic reasons. There is no need for the drama and exaggerations.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com