[travelingfool]

...dingle nuts.

I want to change my crackberry name to dingle nuts.

Hilarious.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

Your point would be correct if we were discussing 'talk time' but no company at all ever does when talking specifically about battery life because the scenario that is far more important to most of their users is how long the battery will last under normal usage and when you compare the 9700 to the 9000 which both use the same battery then you can see that rim have managed to do a great job with the improvements they have made over a phone that was still good in the first place.

I agree. Comparing those two, the battery life is an improvement during average use of the handset (i.e. during identical useability tests.). However, I wouldn't go crazy and call it "state of the art" power management just like I wouldn't call Android or iPhone state of the art UI. The power advances on the 9700 in comparison to the 9000 are there due to some hardware advances that RIM made due to availability of chipset components that weren't there when the 9000 was made. Couple that with the crappy 3G radio power issues they had on the original Bold and you can see where the problems stemmed from. In reality, the power management on the 9700 vs 9000 are very similar to what happened between the S1 and S2. The one thing to remember however is that RIM's made some big changes to the base PL software on all BB models and each of them improves on battery life with each new release. It's part of development, nothing more. Certainly nothing to call home about and rant and rave about state of the art this or that. It's to be expected... it's why I get better battery life today on an S1 then I did a year ago with the same hardware and dame battery.

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[i7guy]

ROFL on the dingle nuts. +1000 go to the iphone already.

BTW I thought the subway like the tunnels had cell phone service? MTA is looking to opt wireless down there.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

I want to change my crackberry name to dingle nuts.

Hilarious.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Unfortunately, that may not be "family friendly" enough to allow. Anymore censorship on here and I'll have to refer to 50's style language.... "Aw darn it" and "oopsy daisy" lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[travelingfool]

Unfortunately, that may not be "family friendly" enough to allow. Anymore censorship on here and I'll have to refer to 50's style language.... "Aw darn it" and "oopsy daisy" lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well, you're pretty good at finding new and creative ways around it. I think you're the one who started the whole "isht" thing, lol. Now everyone's doing it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

ROFL on the dingle nuts. +1000 go to the iphone already.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

When the new one comes out (if available on my carrier) it will be evaluated for consideration. I've come to the conclusion that all the stars must line up in the cosmos for me to find that next handset. This is honestly the biggest reason I'm still on my Storm. I like it, despite the small platform issues I have with Blackberry as a whole. But that won't stop me from expecting better development on the platform.

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[mikeplus1]

Unfortunately, that may not be "family friendly" enough to allow. Anymore censorship on here and I'll have to refer to 50's style language.... "Aw darn it" and "oopsy daisy" lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I completely agree with this, dang it all.

[ipodtouch1234]

**** that. I can't believe it isn't for the Tour. Last blackberry ill ever purchase. I haven't even had it for 8 months.

[sivan]

A lot of email services don't support IMAP idle dingle nuts. Carrier POP3 mailboxes don't. Some schools for student accounts don't, etc.

There is no practical instant push solution for mailboxes that don't support it. BIS still takes the load of the mobile device and polls and compresses messages even for those mailboxes. There is no extra charge for it, it's still better to have push service even when it's not instant.

What's unreasonable is to be expected to pay large sums of money in addition to the cost of a handset and the monthly service charges to support proper push on something as basic as Exchange enterprise email. THAT'S what's unreasonable here. If you measure email speed on different handsets between RIM and ActiveSync capable ones you'd see that it's more cost and time efficient to have ActiveSync vs BIS, battery life be damned (since it's the only thing you keep harping on).

You're not paying for BIS, why are you making stuff up?

BIS = 15 minute poll delays (sometimes more) depending on mailbox activity. Checks on active mailboxes however are never faster then 5-8 minutes for ANYTHING other then IMAP.

ActiveSync = Instant push for Exchange mailboxes with full mailbox sync (something BIS can't do). The same handsets that do this also support instant email on IMAP accounts which is the same as BIS and in ALL cases support 5 minute minimum polls of POP3 type accounts which is faster then BIS even for accounts that aren't very active.

Right, you need a BES service to have instant push with Exchange, not ActiveSync. You already have a BES account, is there any problem with it?

The only offset is battery life and even that's a bit of a stretch in some cases and blown out of proportion by you. It's not as bad as you make it seem dude and it's sure of a lot cheaper then BES services, licensing for BES, etc. I think you've had some bad experiences with past devices and that's left a subjective bad taste in your mouth. You've set your mind up that nothing but your current handset is worth a damn and you don't want to hear otherwise. I on the other hand deal with different platforms EVERY DAY and know what works better for different individuals on the go, and I'll tell you one thing. Not one has honestly come up and complained about battery life on a handset that was configured properly.... except for couple of iPhone users who had bad 3G coverage in an area and the constant switching tore up their batteries from time to time, which is no different then a BB constantly trying to boost radio power to hit towers for those people that take the subway or something else.

I expect about a weekend's worth of battery life under regular usage. I've had phones like the G1 and Palm Pre that required me to keep them plugged in everywhere and ration my usage. I look at my colleagues with iPhones, they always keep it plugged in, I never even worry about it. Friends who use iPhones are always checking their battery and think twice before browsing or doing anything online. That's a ridiculous user experience from mobile device, there is no way I'm going back to that.

Given the right conditions, ALL platforms out there have both negatives and positives and a lot of these issues are easily shared across all the platforms. The only thing needed is the right set of variables and soon each platforms starts to show their weakness. So, blindly defending Blackberry regardless of the facts is just you drinking the koolaid.

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Not blindly defending anything. You have some beef with RIM and you are trying to drum up support for your pet peeves with FUD and made up stuff. You are using a phone that you say fails to meet your expectations, but at the same time you refuse to use anything else. I think you should explain this contradiction and what it says about the validity of your arguments.

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[GlitchZero]

BIS = 15 minute poll delays (sometimes more) depending on mailbox activity. Checks on active mailboxes however are never faster then 5-8 minutes for ANYTHING other then IMAP.

Really? I don't know much about email tech support and whatnot, but isn't hotmail POP3? I usually get my emails on my phone (main account is a hotmail one) within seconds of it hitting my actual inbox using the webmail. I thought polling only alerted you to new messages every time it checked? Unless I'm very, very sorely mistaken on the differences between poll / push.

[shinbone]

it was entertaining for a minute, but now I'm getting bored with: "who's a bigger nerd, JRSCCivic98 vs Synthmole" debate. Thats what this thread has turned into...

Move on kids

[Skeevecr]

it was entertaining for a minute, but now I'm getting bored with: "who's a bigger nerd, JRSCCivic98 vs Synthmole" debate. Thats what this thread has turned into...

That's what this board has turned into, I think it's secretly unrequited love on their part really.

[JRSCCivic98]

Really? I don't know much about email tech support and whatnot, but isn't hotmail POP3? I usually get my emails on my phone (main account is a hotmail one) within seconds of it hitting my actual inbox using the webmail. I thought polling only alerted you to new messages every time it checked? Unless I'm very, very sorely mistaken on the differences between poll / push.

Not for RIM. They entered an agreement a while back to help push the email faster... most likely the protocol being used is IMAP for them under your hotmail config in BIS. Check it via the BIS carrier portal. POP3 will not be instant, if that was the case, then people with POP3 boxes and a BB would get their email quicker, which doesn't seem to be happening now... I know it doesn't happen for me and some people I know.

[i7guy]

We'll this thread is doomed.

[sivan]

I wasn't talking about BIS. I was talking about having to pay for BES to have instant push for enterprise emails when others have it out of the box via ActiveSync support.

There is when your company has to pay 10k+ for the server software and licenses and you have to pay extra for the monthly service. Remember, BIS is $30 and BES is $40 or more depending on carrier pricing.

Your company pays for your BES account, you're not paying anything. You're not even paying for BIS.

You're being rediculous. I know plenty of IT people with other smartphones and they don't have the earth shattering battery issues you seem fixated on. I think you're the one spreading FUD about bullisht like this.

Everyone I see in the office has their iPhone plugged in all day. They accept it as a fact of life with the iPhone. I've been through this and it sucks. There were times I even carried a wall charger with me to the neighborhood cafe just to use the web.

I told you and everybody this before. Right now, this is what marginally works for me!!! Let me outline it again for the upteenth time for the ***** inside your mind.

WinMo = BS devices (win7phone might fix this lack of steller hardware)
iPhone = Not on Verizon (one may eventually be released)
Android = insufficient ActiveSync security policies support (hopefully Google will address this soon for "native" support)
Palm = sucky hardware
Nokia/Sym based = lack of steller email support (I don't play the IMAP game)

Now, you tell me... what does that leave? Humm, I don't know... let me check... ummmm.... Blackberry?

Obviously no manufacturer cares about your niche market. Why should RIM then, what's special about RIM that it's held to standards no one else cares about?

The clear meaning of the text you quoted should have told you I was relating to the need to spend extra for BES on top of BIS (i.e. the data plan) to make use of full instant push for enterprise email.

The company you're working for pays for your account, not you. You have no reason to whine about it.

Aside from your BES account which works just as expected, what you are trying to do is connect to multiple Exchange account, which is hardly possible on any device, not just BlackBerries.

RIM DOES NOT HAVE FULL INSTANT ENTERPRISE PUSH SERVICE WITHOUT ANTIQUATED IMAP4 SUPPORT IF YOU'RE UNWILLING TO PAY EXTRA FOR IT FOR ONE SOFTWARE PACKAGE OR ANOTHER ON TOP OF REGULAR DATA PLAN FROM CARRIER!!! Take it or leave it, I don't give a isht!

That's not true, it's just your weird work situation.

Lets say you bought an iPhone and used it with ActiveSync instead of your BES account with your company's Exchange account. Congratulations. Now, what do you do with the other Exchange accounts at other companies you need to connect to? That's right: you resort to using the same antiquated IMAP because you can only connect to a single Exchange account from the iPhone. You'd be in the same situation on Android devices.

So what do want from RIM? Accept the reality that your work situation is not being served by the market at the present. This has nothing to do with RIM in particular.

[scboffspring]

Hope it'll run on my 8900

[JRSCCivic98]

Your company pays for your BES account, you're not paying anything. You're not even paying for BIS.

No, the user pays for their own BB phones and account. Fact is some companies even ask the user to cover the $100 BES client access license for their personal BB. Seems kind of arrogant on your part to dictate what a company does or doesn't do for their employees. Again, you think your answer is right, but it's WRONG.

Obviously no manufacturer cares about your niche market. Why should RIM then, what's special about RIM that it's held to standards no one else cares about?

Palm allows for multiple Exchange ActiveSync accounts on the Pre and Pixi. A jailbroken current iPhone does the same thing. Again, you are wrong on your assumptions.

The company you're working for pays for your account, not you. You have no reason to whine about it.

Incorrect and certainly not the case for all BES users in the world. Some pay for it all out of their own pocket. See the first quote here. It all depends on the individual company.

Aside from your BES account which works just as expected, what you are trying to do is connect to multiple Exchange account, which is hardly possible on any device, not just BlackBerries.

Again, incorrect. Current Palm devices allow multiple ActiveSync attachments to multiple servers/accounts while keeping multiple mailboxes, calendars, etc organized and color coded on the handset. Current iPhones can also do this if Jailbroken. All iPhones running OS4+ will have this same capability out of the box without the need for Jailbreaking.

Again, you are/were wrong in your assumptions.

Lets say you bought an iPhone and used it with ActiveSync instead of your BES account with your company's Exchange account. Congratulations. Now, what do you do with the other Exchange accounts at other companies you need to connect to? That's right: you resort to using the same antiquated IMAP because you can only connect to a single Exchange account from the iPhone.

Wrong again. See above for the correct info.


BTW, thanks RIM for one thing... finally leaking a Storm OS without the collapsing keyboard typing bug in the browser so I can pOwn synthmole from my BB instead of a PC. Lol

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[sivan]

No, the user pays for their own BB phones and account. Fact is some companies even ask the user to cover the $100 BES client access license for their personal BB. Seems kind of arrogant on your part to dictate what a company does or doesn't do for their employees. Again, you think your answer is right, but it's WRONG.

Simple question, do you pay a dime out of pocket for your BES or BIS accounts or are you just complaining on behalf of some users who want a personal BlackBerry for work?

Palm allows for multiple Exchange ActiveSync accounts on the Pre and Pixi. A jailbroken current iPhone does the same thing. Again, you are wrong on your assumptions.

Yeah but you said you don't want a Palm device and jailbreaking doesn't count, no business would rely on jailbreaking.

Why aren't you complaining about Apple and Android? I know Apple announced it, but 3 years without it and you haven't complained about their greed all this time?

You're wasting your time and everyone else's asking for ActiveSync. That's not how BlackBerries work and it's a entirely competing business. It's not the end of the world, just buy something else. I prefer RIM's push service and with BESX many more companies can use it.

Incorrect and certainly not the case for all BES users in the world. Some pay for it all out of their own pocket. See the first quote here. It all depends on the individual company.

Nonsense. Either a company uses BES or they don't. And when they do, if some employees don't have a company provided BlackBerry it's not RIM's fault, but the company assessment of the role of the employee. RIM sells a product, what the company does with it is the company's business. Nobody owes you anything.

Again, incorrect. Current Palm devices allow multiple ActiveSync attachments to multiple servers/accounts while keeping multiple mailboxes, calendars, etc organized and color coded on the handset. Current iPhones can also do this if Jailbroken. All iPhones running OS4+ will have this same capability out of the box without the need for Jailbreaking.

Again, how come you're not using a Palm or a jailbroken iPhone then instead of whining on the forums? They all have their issues so you complain that RIM is evil and greedy because it's a phone you want to use but it's not perfect enough. That looks like a sense of entitlement to me.

BTW, thanks RIM for one thing... finally leaking a Storm OS without the collapsing keyboard typing bug in the browser so I can pOwn synthmole from my BB instead of a PC. Lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I'll give you that. At least you're actually using your phone to debate unlike the other sissies.

[JRSCCivic98]

Simple question, do you pay a dime out of pocket for your BES or BIS accounts or are you just complaining on behalf of some users who want a personal BlackBerry for work?

Yes I pay for it. And 90% of small businesses I deal with offset their BES costs by having the user pay for the BES license they take up. If they don't want to pay, they can BIS it or ActiveSync for free. Guess what happens? Lol

Again, I respect that things are easier for you on a BB and you seem content with it, but don't lose yourself in that and pretend what your company does for you or what your situation is depicts the rest of the BB community.

Trust me, there are a lot of users out there who want and would benefit from RIM changing just a few things with their platform to really shake things up. Like it or not, if they plan on hitting 100 million users, they better change a few things... starting with beefing up that NOC a bit more. The more users RIM has, the more they can negatively impact global happenings if they were to have future outages. That's something a small company of 12k employees should take very seriously.

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[i7guy]

Jailbreaking doesn't count abd furthmore its irrelevant. Does your company force you to carry a phone or do you elect to carry a phone? If you are forced to carry a phone and your employer does not reimburse your expenses, its a tax deduction. So you are not paying for it out of pocket.

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[JRSCCivic98]

Why is Jailbreaking irrelevant and doesn't count? Because you want it not to? Are you going to come up with another excuse in June when OS4 enables this capability nativly?

BTW, even if you tax deduct it, it's still out of pocket expense until you file yearly and get it back. Just saying...

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[sivan]

Yes I pay for it. And 90% of small businesses I deal with offset their BES costs by having the user pay for the BES license they take up. If they don't want to pay, they can BIS it or ActiveSync for free. Guess what happens? Lol

I understand and I'm sure RIM understands this too, which is why BESX is out. ActiveSync is a competing technology so I don't see what good options RIM have here.

Again, I respect that things are easier for you on a BB and you seem content with it, but don't lose yourself in that and pretend what your company does for you or what your situation is depicts the rest of the BB community.

I don't. My company doesn't want any personal phones accessing email whatever the technology.

But I don't understand your situation. Are you saying that the company decided to use BES with personal BlackBerries? That's odd. It sounds to me that you are not required to have a BlackBerry but are trying to use a personal one anyway. If that's the case, while I understand your frustration, it's really between you and the company, not RIM.

Trust me, there are a lot of users out there who want and would benefit from RIM changing just a few things with their platform to really shake things up.

These are not just a few changes. ActiveSync is a problem for RIM, not a solution. As a user of course I'd like to see ActiveSync on BIS, but I doubt it would be financially feasible for RIM not to mention the business implications for BES.

I think BESX shows they are trying to provide an answer to the ActiveSync challenge.

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[sivan]

Jailbreak doesn't count because it's not a solution by Apple. So when arguing that RIM is withholding something from you, you can't compare it to what Apple is providing by using jailbreaking as an example.

And no business will buy an iPhone to use a feature available via jailbreaking.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[grahamf]

Also, Apple has a tendency to kill phones that have been Jailbroken by issuing an update.

[JRSCCivic98]

I don't. My company doesn't want any personal phones accessing email whatever the technology.

But I don't understand your situation. Are you saying that the company decided to use BES with personal BlackBerries? That's odd. It sounds to me that you are not required to have a BlackBerry but are trying to use a personal one anyway. If that's the case, while I understand your frustration, it's really between you and the company, not RIM.

It's not odd. As a matter of fact, it happens more often then you think. The problem is that all your know of BB and enterprise BES email and support is what you've seen in your company, which is fairly large. There are companies out there with less then 100 employees which employ BES but don't follow the SOP you're accustomed to. For those, it not uncommon for personal BBs and other smartphones to be used for work email as long as they're on the approved lists. These same companies also have fairly open BES policies that push to the BBs, but that depends on the company and the user in question.

It's not as black and white out there as you think it is synth. Always try to keep an open mind to different possibilities. After all, there's no written rule that says only company issues BBs can be BES activated. (Well, maybe at your company, lol)

Also, when I discuss and fight foe these issues, I don't always do it only for my own personal needs. There are others out there that share my viewpoints and want the same thing. (This is probably why you don't understand why I'm still on a BB.)

These are not just a few changes. ActiveSync is a problem for RIM, not a solution. As a user of course I'd like to see ActiveSync on BIS, but I doubt it would be financially feasible for RIM not to mention the business implications for BES.

I think BESX shows they are trying to provide an answer to the ActiveSync challenge.

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I think this is the first humble quote I've seen from you.

And I agree that full mailbox sync via BIS would murder BES practically overnight. However, I would have liked to see BESX implemented in the cloud rather then locally. Unfortunately, RIM lacks the software technology to do this yet without putting the BES server internal to the enterprise network to facilitate their mail server attachment and outgoing private tunneling back to the NOC.

What I'd like to see is a lightweight conduit plugin that can load on email servers to facilitate the needed protocol tunneling, but move the BES administration to the cloud. That would greatly remove the costs associated with extra servers to run BES and the maintenance hours to maintain/upgrade it.

I think you can agree that this would be a good thing for the end users (companies and admins included). As a matter of fact, I think we will see a trend of such transitions with the next BIS upgrade that will bring non-BES users cloud (BIS portal website) controls for wiping and locking devices as needed.... something only BES admins/users have had the privilege to use up till now.

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