04-16-14 05:19 PM
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  1. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Another one bites the dust...

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    04-08-14 10:18 AM
  2. donnation's Avatar
    Sorry to point out the obvious but if the employer pays for it it's no longer "bring your own device" scenario


    #believeinfilm
    Now that I think about it I guess you are right. We get to choose the phone we want and its ours to keep but I guess if they are paying for it it doesn't fit into that category. My mistake, I guess I misunderstood byod meaning that it applied to paying and using for what phone you want.
    04-08-14 10:19 AM
  3. qbnkelt's Avatar
    They won't approve BYOD for us. They procure them and LOCK.THEM.DOWN.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    04-08-14 10:20 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Here it is.




    Sent from my AWESOME gold 64G iPhone 5s via Tapatalk
    04-08-14 10:23 AM
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Yes, I know, that was a typo. The point still stands though
    Not really, because it's missing some structural problems. BlackBerry's total number grew because of entrance into new markets where smartphones were growing and growth of the whole market. BlackBerry OSes structural weaknesses were shown long, long, long before BlackBerry 10 hit the market. The first and most obvious was in the US, where the user base hit its peak at about 22 million users in the fall of 2010 ... and then began to atrophy at about a million users a quarter as people defected elsewhere. It's hovering around the 5 million mark now ... as 17 million users jumped ship. This was despite new models (6 and 7) being released. Even while the user base was still growing, there were structural weaknesses shown when shipments started coming in below expectations and iPhone and Android kept growing at a much faster rate. When the churn happened in the US it hit hard. Then it spread! The trend started to replicate itself in other regions until even places like Indonesia and Nigeria could not offset the churn in other markets.

    No amount of you putting your fingers in your ears and saying, "They should have kept with BlackBerry OS" and justifying it by saying "well BlackBerry 10 is a failure" negates this fact. The data is there. BlackBerry OS was not enough to sustain the company.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 04-08-14 at 10:47 AM.
    extisis and kbz1960 like this.
    04-08-14 10:24 AM
  6. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    When looking at BlackBerry the last two years and their precipitous decline, agencies and corporations have decided to pursue other options. I can't blame them.
    And therein lies one of the painful, painful truths. My last company was a huge BlackBerry shop. While you could get iPhones, it had to be approved by the business head and was typically only allowed if you were a VP or you worked on iPhone apps. In fact, BlackBerry 10 (!) became the default issued device moving forward. But ...

    They started to look at a contingency plan. Despite liking and wanting to support BlackBerry, and employees generally liking the Z10 and Q10, there was simply the concern that BlackBerry might not live long enough or remain in the hardware game long enough to justify ongoing investment.
    kbz1960 and Shadowyugi like this.
    04-08-14 10:28 AM
  7. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Except if there was no BB10 there would've been a new generation of BBOS devices, perhaps BB8.
    And look at what would have happened.

    Let's take the US for example.

    In September 2010, BlackBerry ownership in the US peaked. At that time, 58.7 million americans had smartphones. 22 million of them were BlackBerrys. The company's marketshare had already started declining because iOS and Android were growing at a faster rate, but the raw number of total BlackBerry users (of BBOS devices) peaked in the US here.

    Fast forward to December 2012, the month before the launch of BlackBerry 10. During this time period, the number of smartphone owners in the US had more than doubled to 126 million. However, despite the launch of a host of BlackBerry 6 and 7 devices, 14 million Americans gave up their BlackBerrys for something else, leaving about 8 million in the US. million users.

    You can debate the merits of BlackBerry 10 and that strategy all you want, but the reality is BlackBerry OS devices had massive churn. The US is where it started, but it was replicated in other regions. Read the financial reports over time and you'll see it. This was not the path forward.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-08-14 10:46 AM
  8. donnation's Avatar
    Here it is.



    Sent from my AWESOME gold 64G iPhone 5s via Tapatalk
    SG5?
    04-08-14 10:49 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And look at what would have happened.

    Let's take the US for example.

    In September 2010, BlackBerry ownership in the US peaked. At that time, 58.7 million americans had smartphones. 22 million of them were BlackBerrys. The company's marketshare had already started declining because iOS and Android were growing at a faster rate, but the raw number of total BlackBerry users (of BBOS devices) peaked in the US here.

    Fast forward to December 2012, the month before the launch of BlackBerry 10. During this time period, the number of smartphone owners in the US had more than doubled to 126 million. However, despite the launch of a host of BlackBerry 6 and 7 devices, 14 million Americans gave up their BlackBerrys for something else, leaving about 8 million in the US. million users.

    You can debate the merits of BlackBerry 10 and that strategy all you want, but the reality is BlackBerry OS devices had massive churn. The US is where it started, but it was replicated in other regions. Read the financial reports over time and you'll see it. This was not the path forward.
    I never said it was the path forward, I said they would've been in a better financial position, BB10 clearly isn't the path forward either.


    #believeinfilm
    04-08-14 10:50 AM
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I never said it was the path forward
    You've certainly been pretty vocal about them continuing to release BlackBerry 8 and new BBOS devices instead of BlackBerry 10.

    I said they would've been in a better financial position
    Maybe, maybe not. I've certainly heard of a number of situations where people held off giving up their BlackBerry OS devices for something else until they had a chance to look at BlackBerry 10. My last company would have dropped BLackBerry altogether had BlackBerry 10 not come out. But that's not really the point

    BB10 clearly isn't the path forward either.
    Then what is?
    #believeinfilm[/QUOTE]
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-08-14 10:54 AM
  11. donnation's Avatar

    Then what is?
    Maybe its both. If OS7 sales help BB then what does it matter as long as they keep making new BB10 devices as well as continuing to move forward with the OS. I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing deal. I think BB underestimated the amount of people who used Legacy devices due to the cheap data plans. Its a huge draw for a lot of people, especially in emerging markets. I know that's not the only reason (Belfast is proof of that), but I have to think thats a big reason why a lot of people are still buying and using those devices.
    RubberChicken76 likes this.
    04-08-14 10:59 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You've certainly been pretty vocal about them continuing to release BlackBerry 8 and new BBOS devices instead of BlackBerry 10.



    Maybe, maybe not. I've certainly heard of a number of situations where people held off giving up their BlackBerry OS devices for something else until they had a chance to look at BlackBerry 10. My last company would have dropped BLackBerry altogether had BlackBerry 10 not come out. But that's not really the point



    Then what is?
    #believeinfilm
    [/QUOTE]

    Rebuilding BBOS on top of QNX, fix all BBOS problems and have all the benefits BB10 brings.

    Swapping to BB10 meant everything had to be rebuilt from scratch with all the knowledge accumulated over the years forgotten.




    #believeinfilm
    04-08-14 11:00 AM
  13. qbnkelt's Avatar
    SG5?
    Note 2.

    It's actually VERY efficient.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    04-08-14 11:10 AM
  14. donnation's Avatar
    Ah, thought maybe you picked up one. I'm debating it, just to see how it is. I really like the Note 3 and am on the fence of with waiting for the 4 or maybe trying out the SG5.
    04-08-14 11:12 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I'm jumping on the next Note. I'm very pleasantly surprised with the Note 2 we deployed. It's a beast.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    04-08-14 11:13 AM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Rebuilding BBOS on top of QNX, fix all BBOS problems and have all the benefits BB10 brings.
    So in the end, we actually 'agree'?! :-)

    Swapping to BB10 meant everything had to be rebuilt from scratch with all the knowledge accumulated over the years forgotten.
    Everything would still need to be rebuilt likely from an implementation perspective. Perhaps a different UX, but it BBOS likely wasn't directly portable. Under the hood, it would have been an all new, QNX based codebase for those features.



    #believeinfilm[/QUOTE]
    04-08-14 11:44 AM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    No, there was no BlackBerry OS decline, the user base kept growing up to 90 million, they sold more and more devices to well over 10 million a quarter.

    The decline was in profits and that's partly because the huge investment in BB10 at around the same time buying QNX and all other companies.

    Of course, eventually the bb7 line up got too old and started declining with no replacements in sight.


    #believeinfilm
    ASP was declining. Average Service Revenue per customer was declining before BB10. From BBOS 6 on this was occurring. We know the growth was in emerging markets, and those markets are moving to cheap Android as they mature. BBOS is not suited for developed markets where customers expect more from their phones.

    Mike L, the same guy who made BBOS, saw what could be done with QNX and decided it was a better way to go for security certifications, radio certifications, etc. What he was tragically wrong on was the time to get a QNX phone to market, and how much damage BBOS did to the brand perception in the meantime. I guarantee you that more than 50% of people issued BBOS work devices have a negative perception of the device. You can look at the dev blogs and see all the limitations of BBOS. New platform was needed.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-14 06:36 PM
  18. David Murray1's Avatar
    So much hatred for BlackBerry right here on a popular BlackBerry website. Soo sad and depressing.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-14 07:47 PM
  19. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    You just made the argument for the existence of a learning curve.



    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    No. I'm saying that people want to skip the learning curve.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    04-08-14 08:10 PM
  20. mnc76's Avatar
    ASP was declining. Average Service Revenue per customer was declining before BB10. From BBOS 6 on this was occurring. We know the growth was in emerging markets, and those markets are moving to cheap Android as they mature. BBOS is not suited for developed markets where customers expect more from their phones.

    Mike L, the same guy who made BBOS, saw what could be done with QNX and decided it was a better way to go for security certifications, radio certifications, etc. What he was tragically wrong on was the time to get a QNX phone to market, and how much damage BBOS did to the brand perception in the meantime. I guarantee you that more than 50% of people issued BBOS work devices have a negative perception of the device. You can look at the dev blogs and see all the limitations of BBOS. New platform was needed.

    Posted via CB10
    In my opinion, it was the fact they stayed with BBOS so long that made so few people care about BB10 when it finally did arrive.

    It WASN'T moving away from BBOS that put BlackBerry in this position. It was STAYING with BBOS TOO LONG that put BlackBerry in this position.

    BBOS, even in 2010, was already outdated (and was installed onto slow, under performing hardware with embarrassingly small screens) and this left users embarrassed to own a BlackBerry while their friends zipped around the Web with their comparatively lightning-speed iPhone's and Galaxy phones that had great graphics, video, and camera performance.

    This embarrassment led to an anti-bb backlash that has never really gone away.

    Posted via CB10
    CHIP72, Shadowyugi and web99 like this.
    04-08-14 08:25 PM
  21. stlscott18's Avatar
    Can somebody tell me who powers the Toyota on-board? Is that QNX software?!


    Posted via CB10
    04-08-14 08:31 PM
  22. SmellWhole's Avatar
    ... BBOS, even in 2010, was already outdated (and was installed onto slow, under performing hardware with embarrassingly small screens) and this left users embarrassed to own a BlackBerry while their friends zipped around the Web with their comparatively lightning-speed iPhone's and Galaxy phones that had great graphics, video, and camera performance.

    This embarrassment led to an anti-bb backlash that has never really gone away ...
    Only a loser would be embarrassed by something like this.
    neoberry99 likes this.
    04-08-14 09:20 PM
  23. Coffee Shampoo's Avatar
    I sometimes feel like they should've just remade OS7 with a QNX base. Just some changes in the UI and the hub. Apps would be nicer.

    Star Wars fan? Come join us C00121E8E
    04-08-14 09:38 PM
  24. neoberry99's Avatar
    I know I'm in the minority here but I think for the most part bb did everything right. When I first heard of RIM it was when they released the 900 series pager. The only reason I didn't buy it was because it wasn't backlit but you knew then that these guys were not trying to cater to the everyday pager carrying Joe Blow.

    They basically stumbled into the consumer market and they're leaving...going back to their roots. BlackBerry will always be synonymous with corporate. Period.
    04-09-14 12:04 AM
  25. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I know I'm in the minority here but I think for the most part bb did everything right. When I first heard of RIM it was when they released the 900 series pager. The only reason I didn't buy it was because it wasn't backlit but you knew then that these guys were not trying to cater to the everyday pager carrying Joe Blow.

    They basically stumbled into the consumer market and they're leaving...going back to their roots. BlackBerry will always be synonymous with corporate. Period.
    They aren't leaving. They are sidestepping. They obviously want to focus on enterprise to regain stability before coming back at full force with consumers.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    04-09-14 12:15 AM
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