04-16-14 05:19 PM
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  1. Raddin's Avatar
    He knocked me for never using legacy devices. I have my reasons to never have used it. I'm not a fan of qwerty on smartphones and full touch on legacy was not good.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    I don't think I knocked you. I certainly wasn't trying to do that and I apologize if I have offended you in any way.

    I just take issue to people saying one thing is better than the other when they have only experienced one of the two choices. You seem to spend an awful lot of time talking about the legacy devices on this site and it always struck me as a little odd. Especially when you consider that you yourself have taken issue with people claiming that Android or iOS is better than BlackBerry 10 when they haven't tried BB10 for themselves.

    If you feel that it is wrong when other's do it, then why do you continue to say things like BlackBerry 10 is a better platform than legacy?
    04-02-14 07:35 PM
  2. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I don't think I knocked you. I certainly wasn't trying to do that and I apologize if I have offended you in any way.

    I just take issue to people saying one thing is better than the other when they have only experienced one of the two choices. You seem to spend an awful lot of time talking about the legacy devices on this site and it always struck me as a little odd. Especially when you consider that you yourself have taken issue with people claiming that Android or iOS is better than BlackBerry 10 when they haven't tried BB10 for themselves.

    If you feel that it is wrong when other's do it, then why do you continue to say things like BlackBerry 10 is a better platform than legacy?
    Because I've actually used these platforms. legacy puts me off in 2 seconds because I'm not a qwerty fan in the first place.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    04-02-14 07:37 PM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I mean no disrespect here, but how would you know?
    I've heard this a lot from purely a developer perspective ... and I've worked with devs who've created apps on both. BlackBerry 10 as a development platform anyway - it usually considered to be quite modern compared to BlackBerry OS. It supports all the latest game engines making game porting a snap. It has a more robust, consistent UI framework, whereas there were a lot of custom controls with the original platform. So far anyway, there are only three screen sizes/aspect ratios to worry about vs. many, many, many on BlackBerry OS. All of the devices have GPUs that support OpenGL where BlackBerry OS this was seldom the case until BlackBerry 7. The app sizes can be a lot bigger given the COD limitations in BlackBerry OS and there aren't hundreds of slow simulators to download in order to make sure it works across device/os/carrier. There's also the option to quickly get an Android app to run. In the web apps we did, there were a lot of problems getting it to work on BlackBerry OS, even 7.x. BlackBerry 10 had a much easier time.

    Just a few things. I'm sure a few devs here can point out other differences
    Dave Bourque and kbz1960 like this.
    04-02-14 07:53 PM
  4. lnichols's Avatar
    I think the move with T-Mobile USA shows that carriers, and BlackBerry, are going to be going away from carrier hosted BIS. Neither want to keep supporting the system IMHO for longer than necessary.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-02-14 09:07 PM
  5. ubizmo's Avatar
    @unizmo, one important factor you missed, it will be built by a new company, so tooling/retooling has to be done either way. Plus do you really thing all the exact same third party parts are still available for BB to buy in order to build the exact same 9900 or 9790?


    #believeinfilm
    I'm not sure how these things are built. I think the actual "build" process is mainly assembly of parts mass produced by other manufacturers, testing, QC, etc. If so, the new company will be using parts tooled by others.

    My dad was a toolmaker, and I know very well that manufacturers don't throw away tool sets if there is any possibility they will be needed again. The very fact that Chen has made this announcement strongly implies that the part stream for the unspecified Bold device is still in place, or it would just be too costly. I think the term "production run" was carefully chosen. A new Bold design wouldn't be just a production run; it would be a product launch.

    I really think it just means "were going to build a million 9xxx devices because we know we have buyers for them," where xxx are numbers we've already seen.


    Sent via Tapatalk
    Last edited by ubizmo; 04-03-14 at 07:58 AM.
    southlander and kbz1960 like this.
    04-02-14 10:19 PM
  6. BigManRonnie's Avatar
    You just proved my point smellwhole. Keep up the good fight.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-14 12:51 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Because I've actually used these platforms. legacy puts me off in 2 seconds because I'm not a qwerty fan in the first place.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Hold the phone, you never used BBOS? That means you don't have a clue what the company was build on in the first place and what it became famous for.

    It's not just the legacy products, it's the whole history of BlackBerry you're ignoring.

    Don't forget where you're coming from or you might forget where you're going never rang more true in BB's case.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 02:36 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ah, I see.

    I wonder how many other people here are like Dave and are constantly knocking the legacy OS without even having used it.

    Oh well. I'll let you happily get back to knocking the only thing that has been keeping BlackBerry alive now.
    I know another one that does it an never tried BB7, all opinions are based on BB6.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 02:38 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I'm not knocking... I'm telling you BB7 isn't the future and BB10 needs to be pushed greatly.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    The future is what product BLackBerry actually sells. Just because you build it doesn't mean everybody will come.

    Google glass for example, you can say it's the future but that product has been met with such hostility.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 02:40 AM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Is there any doubt Foxconn will build the re-stock (or new) BBOS7 device ? I'm quite sure not.
    04-03-14 04:40 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Is there any doubt Foxconn will build the re-stock (or new) BBOS7 device ? I'm quite sure not.
    It's not Foxconn, it's Wistron a long standing manufacturing partner, but from what I understand it wasn't them that built the Bolds in the first place.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 04:58 AM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    I know another one that does it an never tried BB7, all opinions are based on BB6.


    #believeinfilm
    I used 4.5 through 7. Never want to go back to that archaic OS, or a PKB. BBOS was more costly for certifications, and every version had to be tested on every device. BB10 certification process is much easier, broader and cheaper making it easier for BlackBerry to get new devices out and they are certified day one. BB10 devices do not require a massive, expensive data center on the backend to function properly. You guys aren't looking at the bigger picture. Apple has one data center I believe to support iOS, BlackBerry has many for BBOS,and a massive network. Those are not free to operate or maintain.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-03-14 06:24 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I used 4.5 through 7. Never want to go back to that archaic OS, or a PKB. BBOS was more costly for certifications, and every version had to be tested on every device. BB10 certification process is much easier, broader and cheaper making it easier for BlackBerry to get new devices out and they are certified day one. BB10 devices do not require a massive, expensive data center on the backend to function properly. You guys aren't looking at the bigger picture. Apple has one data center I believe to support iOS, BlackBerry has many for BBOS,and a massive network. Those are not free to operate or maintain.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes it does, when you put in your email name and password it's the NOC that pulls the correct settings, BBM is still powered by the NOC, BB10 still relies a lot on the NOCs, probably BES too. BB Protect is another one. And so on.

    BB10 is not NOC free.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 07:16 AM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    Yes it does, when you put in your email name and password it's the NOC that pulls the correct settings, BBM is still powered by the NOC, BB10 still relies a lot on the NOCs, probably BES too. BB Protect is another one. And so on.

    BB10 is not NOC free.


    #believeinfilm
    And if the settings are not there you can add them in yourself. If the NOC is down, everything works except BlackBerry World, BBM, and Protect. BBOS relies on constant computing power from the NOC to function, BB10 uses it much less, which means you need much less computing power at the NOC to support BB10, which means you can have a smaller footprint, which means you can save money.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and johnnyuk like this.
    04-03-14 07:35 AM
  15. coldRooster's Avatar
    The future is what product BLackBerry actually sells. Just because you build it doesn't mean everybody will come.

    Google glass for example, you can say it's the future but that product has been met with such hostility.


    #believeinfilm
    By other businesses. Not consumers. Everyone I know thinks it ******* awesome

    Posted via 10.3 on Verizon
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-03-14 08:20 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And if the settings are not there you can add them in yourself. If the NOC is down, everything works except BlackBerry World, BBM, and Protect. BBOS relies on constant computing power from the NOC to function, BB10 uses it much less, which means you need much less computing power at the NOC to support BB10, which means you can have a smaller footprint, which means you can save money.

    Posted via CB10


    That's all very nice but you're forgetting over half of BB's revenue comes from BBOS+NOCs, sure BBOS is more intensive on the NOC but it actually produces revenue, LOTS of it.

    BB10 on the other hand is using the NOC and produces feck all.




    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 08:32 AM
  17. coldRooster's Avatar
    That's all very nice but you're forgetting over half of BB's revenue comes from BBOS+NOCs, sure BBOS is more intensive on the NOC but it actually produces revenue, LOTS of it.

    BB10 on the other hand is using the NOC and produces feck all.




    #believeinfilm
    That seems to be the only argument you and other OS7 users have. It makes money. Which still, compared other competitions is not a lot.

    Posted via 10.3 on Verizon
    04-03-14 08:38 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That seems to be the only argument you and other OS7 users have. It makes money. Which still, compared other competitions is not a lot.

    Posted via 10.3 on Verizon
    Yeah but compared to BB10 it's a lot and it's pretty much all BB has at the moment.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 08:41 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The best way to explain it would be this:

    BB10 is a parasite to the NOC, it uses it and produces nothing.

    BBOS has long paid for the NOCs and continue to pay for the NOCs.


    #believeinfilm
    riss89 likes this.
    04-03-14 08:43 AM
  20. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    The best way to explain it would be this:

    BB10 is a parasite to the NOC, it uses it and produces nothing.

    BBOS has long paid for the NOCs and continue to pay for the NOCs.
    I'm enjoying the discussion, and still use BBOS but will eventually migrate to BB10. I never need the latest greatest, and my Bold 9900 does everything I need it to do. I have to say though, as a consumer, arguments that rely on permanent ongoing payments to a company don't really resonate with me. My Bold is BIS-free, and I'm happy that way, because I'm cheap I have no idea what a NOC is, but I'm not paying for it I'm off to look up NOCs now ...
    coldRooster likes this.
    04-03-14 09:10 AM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    I'm enjoying the discussion, and still use BBOS but will eventually migrate to BB10. I never need the latest greatest, and my Bold 9900 does everything I need it to do. I have to say though, as a consumer, arguments that rely on permanent ongoing payments to a company don't really resonate with me. My Bold is BIS-free, and I'm happy that way, because I'm cheap I have no idea what a NOC is, but I'm not paying for it I'm off to look up NOCs now ...
    In the states we don't pay extra for BIS but the carriers do pay BBRY for the NOC. I've heard that the carriers do not like paying BBRY this NOC fee but do not want to pass the cost onto their customers. So the carriers in the USA make less off bb customers because they charge them no more but still have to pay BBRY. I can see where they don't want it, I'm not sure if they started charging extra to have a bb how many would pay more for it, I wouldn't.

    So your bold is BIS free? Then you have no email, BBM or browser unless you're using opera mini or something.
    04-03-14 09:44 AM
  22. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    In the states we don't pay extra for BIS but the carriers do pay BBRY for the NOC. I've heard that the carriers do not like paying BBRY this NOC fee but do not want to pass the cost onto their customers. So the carriers in the USA make less off bb customers because they charge them no more but still have to pay BBRY. I can see where they don't want it, I'm not sure if they started charging extra to have a bb how many would pay more for it, I wouldn't.

    So your bold is BIS free? Then you have no email, BBM or browser unless you're using opera mini or something.
    I have email through LogicMail, no BBM (but do have WhatsApp, Kik, IM+, and SMS), and the browser works fine. I'm using the 02 UK OS image and my phone's on Speakout in Canada.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-03-14 10:33 AM
  23. Rello's Avatar
    The best way to explain it would be this:

    BB10 is a parasite to the NOC, it uses it and produces nothing.

    BBOS has long paid for the NOCs and continue to pay for the NOCs.


    #believeinfilm
    Hey.....hey.....dont sell us Bb10 users short. we got stickers in bbm now lol. BBOS does too but we can somewhat contribute if we choose to lol

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and Raddin like this.
    04-03-14 10:51 AM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    That's all very nice but you're forgetting over half of BB's revenue comes from BBOS+NOCs, sure BBOS is more intensive on the NOC but it actually produces revenue, LOTS of it.

    BB10 on the other hand is using the NOC and produces feck all.




    #believeinfilm
    And you are forgetting that that getting that revenue is taking revenue away from the carriers, who don't have to share that revenue with alternative devices, and are pushing those other devices because of this. Carriers don't want to split revenue anymore now that they don't have to. They don't want people using less data when they are building networks with massive amounts of capacity.

    BlackBerry must move to a model where BIS isn't the thing generating the revenue. They are trying, they are just really bad at almost everything they try.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-03-14 11:17 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And you are forgetting that that getting that revenue is taking revenue away from the carriers, who don't have to share that revenue with alternative devices, and are pushing those other devices because of this. Carriers don't want to split revenue anymore now that they don't have to. They don't want people using less data when they are building networks with massive amounts of capacity.

    BlackBerry must move to a model where BIS isn't the thing generating the revenue. They are trying, they are just really bad at almost everything they try.

    Posted via CB10
    Sounds like you're more worried about the carriers instead of BB and their users.

    The fact that some carriers (3 Mobile UK) have stopped selling BB10 devices but still sell two BBOS models disproves your carriers not wanting BIS theory don't you think?

    It would be the other way around if it were true.


    #believeinfilm
    04-03-14 12:01 PM
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