[misko016]

If a free BIS lot of people will reuse BB 7 devices ... Maximize sales and would like to solve a lot of problems!

[johnnyuk]

That isn't an excuse. BlackBerry shouldn't be acting like newbs in the smartphone business. After all, the BlackBerry Pearl 8100, a device that is older than the first generation iPhone, could run headless apps. Including call blocking apps.

If they could figure it out 8 years ago, why in the world can't they do it now?

But it's OK for Apple to wait 6 years until they "get around to it"?

I don't know if you've read about the development of BB10 a couple of years ago but it was two separate teams within BlackBerry with little interaction between the BBOS team and the BB10 team. That's pointed to as why some long standing BBOS features didn't appear straight away in BB10 and why some are not today.

It's not a great way to work, BlackBerry had many management problems at the time, but that's where we are. Whining and moaning doesn't change history.

BlackBerry have made avenues for people to suggest features, so go tell them what you want to see yourself :

https://blackberry.icanmakeitbetter.com

https://beta.webapps.blackberry.com/...scussions/1158


Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[BitPusher2600]

If a free BIS lot of people will reuse BB 7 devices ... Maximize sales and would like to solve a lot of problems!

Agreed. Taking money anywhere they can make it, so goes my opinion, is not exactly a bad business practice eh?

[johnnyuk]

It sucks that BlackBerry 10 doesn't have many headless apps.

Star Wars fan? Come join us C00121E8E

O/T:

I just found a great headless cellular and wifi data monitor app, at last! Been waiting a year! It used to be called Fire Chest Usage, now it's called Usage Pro.

Worth the money if you have no carrier provided way to track your data usage, call minutes and texts. And you can see how much WiFi you're gobbling up too if it's of interest.

I'm not the developer by the way or associated in any way, but it's the first app of its type to go headless so I thought I'd mention it.

http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/51754893

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[TgeekB]

iPhone only got this feature six months ago in iOS 7. Give BlackBerry a break, they are adding features to BB10 constantly, this one will come.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

I hope so. Its very basic, especially for a business phone.

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[RubberChicken76]

Have you wondered why? Most carriers only sell the 9720 and 9320 and the ones that still sell the 9900 have it seriously overpriced.

However, BB7 is not the problem, if BB10 was good enough everybody would've forgotten about BB7.

You know, Belfast, I think you and I actually agree on many things despite appearances.

When it comes to BlackBerry 10, I agree with you in that a) It's not differentiated enough compared to other things out there; b) that it's too jarring of a difference for legacy customers; and c) it's still missing some aspects that some people liked about the BBOS devices.

Where we diverge however, is it feels like you gloss over the problems that led BlackBerry to create BlackBerry 10 in the first place. Whether they chose the BB10 path, the Android path or the Windows Phone path is up for debate, but what isn't in my mind is that they needed a new path.

BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform. They kept enhancing it and it kept running up against its architectural limitations from another time. No matter how much emphasis they put on things like "Liquid Graphics" and the "Torch browser", it still ultimately presented itself as an old, tired OS with a foundation designed for a cottage being asked to support an office tower. If it was a platform that *could* have been brought forward, it would have. But nothing they did with BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 was able to overcome the major architectural problems it presented.

And BlackBerry 10 or not, BlackBerry OS sales are in decline. They've been declining every quarter for how long now? I can see the relevance in debating whether they should have invested in BlackBerry 10 as a platform or not. What I can't see is even considering the option of moving forward with BlackBerry OS. So what if it's out-selling BlackBerry 10? There are two problems - not one. BlackBerry 10's struggle to stand up is only part of the issue - BlackBerry OSes steep decline is the other. So what if it's the bulk of the customer revenue right now?

Do you seriously think they can stay alive if they focus on new BlackBerry OS models and OS udates? They are declining themselves ... 2.3 million this quarter from 3.2 million last quarter.

What do you think the reviews will say if they do an about face and suddenly put BlackBerry 8 on the Q20 and try to sell it? I think it will be a lot of "it's a step backward in UI, performance, apps ... compared to iOS, Android, Windows Phone and even BlackBerry 10". Do you think carriers all over the world are going to clammer to pick it up and that it will turn the tide on shipments and cause them to move back up?

I know you'll probably make some retort that says, "Yeah - well BlackBerry 10 hasn't succeeded/was a resource drain/was a failure", but that's not really the point. I know BlackBerry 10 isn't succeeding. But what led to the creation of BlackBerry 10 in the first place? Limitations in BlackBerry OS! Dislike of BlackBerry OS in the market! Carrier resistance to BlackBerry OS! Bad reviews of BlackBerry OS! Churn on BlackBerry OS!

[kbz1960]

You know, Belfast, I think you and I actually agree on many things despite appearances.

When it comes to BlackBerry 10, I agree with you in that a) It's not differentiated enough compared to other things out there; b) that it's too jarring of a difference for legacy customers; and c) it's still missing some aspects that some people liked about the BBOS devices.

Where we diverge however, is it feels like you gloss over the problems that led BlackBerry to create BlackBerry 10 in the first place. Whether they chose the BB10 path, the Android path or the Windows Phone path is up for debate, but what isn't in my mind is that they needed a new path.

BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform. They kept enhancing it and it kept running up against its architectural limitations from another time. No matter how much emphasis they put on things like "Liquid Graphics" and the "Torch browser", it still ultimately presented itself as an old, tired OS with a foundation designed for a cottage being asked to support an office tower. If it was a platform that *could* have been brought forward, it would have. But nothing they did with BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 was able to overcome the major architectural problems it presented.

And BlackBerry 10 or not, BlackBerry OS sales are in decline. They've been declining every quarter for how long now? I can see the relevance in debating whether they should have invested in BlackBerry 10 as a platform or not. What I can't see is even considering the option of moving forward with BlackBerry OS. So what if it's out-selling BlackBerry 10? There are two problems - not one. BlackBerry 10's struggle to stand up is only part of the issue - BlackBerry OSes steep decline is the other. So what if it's the bulk of the customer revenue right now?

Do you seriously think they can stay alive if they focus on new BlackBerry OS models and OS udates? They are declining themselves ... 2.3 million this quarter from 3.2 million last quarter.

What do you think the reviews will say if they do an about face and suddenly put BlackBerry 8 on the Q20 and try to sell it? I think it will be a lot of "it's a step backward in UI, performance, apps ... compared to iOS, Android, Windows Phone and even BlackBerry 10". Do you think carriers all over the world are going to clammer to pick it up and that it will turn the tide on shipments and cause them to move back up?

I know you'll probably make some retort that says, "Yeah - well BlackBerry 10 hasn't succeeded/was a resource drain/was a failure", but that's not really the point. I know BlackBerry 10 isn't succeeding. But what led to the creation of BlackBerry 10 in the first place? Limitations in BlackBerry OS! Dislike of BlackBerry OS in the market! Carrier resistance to BlackBerry OS! Bad reviews of BlackBerry OS! Churn on BlackBerry OS!

Agreed.

[belfastdispatcher]

You know, Belfast, I think you and I actually agree on many things despite appearances.

When it comes to BlackBerry 10, I agree with you in that a) It's not differentiated enough compared to other things out there; b) that it's too jarring of a difference for legacy customers; and c) it's still missing some aspects that some people liked about the BBOS devices.

Where we diverge however, is it feels like you gloss over the problems that led BlackBerry to create BlackBerry 10 in the first place. Whether they chose the BB10 path, the Android path or the Windows Phone path is up for debate, but what isn't in my mind is that they needed a new path.

BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform. They kept enhancing it and it kept running up against its architectural limitations from another time. No matter how much emphasis they put on things like "Liquid Graphics" and the "Torch browser", it still ultimately presented itself as an old, tired OS with a foundation designed for a cottage being asked to support an office tower. If it was a platform that *could* have been brought forward, it would have. But nothing they did with BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 was able to overcome the major architectural problems it presented.

And BlackBerry 10 or not, BlackBerry OS sales are in decline. They've been declining every quarter for how long now? I can see the relevance in debating whether they should have invested in BlackBerry 10 as a platform or not. What I can't see is even considering the option of moving forward with BlackBerry OS. So what if it's out-selling BlackBerry 10? There are two problems - not one. BlackBerry 10's struggle to stand up is only part of the issue - BlackBerry OSes steep decline is the other. So what if it's the bulk of the customer revenue right now?

Do you seriously think they can stay alive if they focus on new BlackBerry OS models and OS udates? They are declining themselves ... 2.3 million this quarter from 3.2 million last quarter.

What do you think the reviews will say if they do an about face and suddenly put BlackBerry 8 on the Q20 and try to sell it? I think it will be a lot of "it's a step backward in UI, performance, apps ... compared to iOS, Android, Windows Phone and even BlackBerry 10". Do you think carriers all over the world are going to clammer to pick it up and that it will turn the tide on shipments and cause them to move back up?

I know you'll probably make some retort that says, "Yeah - well BlackBerry 10 hasn't succeeded/was a resource drain/was a failure", but that's not really the point. I know BlackBerry 10 isn't succeeding. But what led to the creation of BlackBerry 10 in the first place? Limitations in BlackBerry OS! Dislike of BlackBerry OS in the market! Carrier resistance to BlackBerry OS! Bad reviews of BlackBerry OS! Churn on BlackBerry OS!

Actually BB bought QNX in 2010 and they worked with them on the PB OS before the deal was done, the intention to start a new OS was always there. BB7 was more of a stop gap product and initially it was going to be run on much lower hardware, at the last minute they improved it a bit.

Let's not forget the history. BB didn't put all the effort they could into BBOS, far from it.


#believeinfilm

[BitPusher2600]

You know, Belfast, I think you and I actually agree on many things despite appearances.

When it comes to BlackBerry 10, I agree with you in that a) It's not differentiated enough compared to other things out there; b) that it's too jarring of a difference for legacy customers; and c) it's still missing some aspects that some people liked about the BBOS devices.

Where we diverge however, is it feels like you gloss over the problems that led BlackBerry to create BlackBerry 10 in the first place. Whether they chose the BB10 path, the Android path or the Windows Phone path is up for debate, but what isn't in my mind is that they needed a new path.

BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform. They kept enhancing it and it kept running up against its architectural limitations from another time. No matter how much emphasis they put on things like "Liquid Graphics" and the "Torch browser", it still ultimately presented itself as an old, tired OS with a foundation designed for a cottage being asked to support an office tower. If it was a platform that *could* have been brought forward, it would have. But nothing they did with BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 was able to overcome the major architectural problems it presented.

And BlackBerry 10 or not, BlackBerry OS sales are in decline. They've been declining every quarter for how long now? I can see the relevance in debating whether they should have invested in BlackBerry 10 as a platform or not. What I can't see is even considering the option of moving forward with BlackBerry OS. So what if it's out-selling BlackBerry 10? There are two problems - not one. BlackBerry 10's struggle to stand up is only part of the issue - BlackBerry OSes steep decline is the other. So what if it's the bulk of the customer revenue right now?

Do you seriously think they can stay alive if they focus on new BlackBerry OS models and OS udates? They are declining themselves ... 2.3 million this quarter from 3.2 million last quarter.

What do you think the reviews will say if they do an about face and suddenly put BlackBerry 8 on the Q20 and try to sell it? I think it will be a lot of "it's a step backward in UI, performance, apps ... compared to iOS, Android, Windows Phone and even BlackBerry 10". Do you think carriers all over the world are going to clammer to pick it up and that it will turn the tide on shipments and cause them to move back up?

I know you'll probably make some retort that says, "Yeah - well BlackBerry 10 hasn't succeeded/was a resource drain/was a failure", but that's not really the point. I know BlackBerry 10 isn't succeeding. But what led to the creation of BlackBerry 10 in the first place? Limitations in BlackBerry OS! Dislike of BlackBerry OS in the market! Carrier resistance to BlackBerry OS! Bad reviews of BlackBerry OS! Churn on BlackBerry OS!

H*ll of a post sir, well constructed.

Everything you're pointing out is true from my vantage as well but the question that's been debated thru this whole thread is "what now" and apparently, Chen's answer is to play both sides of the fence and see what pans out. I don't know about you folks but this struggle period BlackBerry is in right now is fascinating almost to the point of exciting for me
Like most of us though, I hope BlackBerry doesn't end up sinking because of it, but I won't accept that they will and I rather maintain some faith in John Chen's business acumen here. Being he's worth a good deal, I doubt he's aching to start finding another job eh.

[kbz1960]

Actually BB bought QNX in 2010 and they worked with them on the PB OS before the deal was done, the intention to start a new OS was always there. BB7 was more of a stop gap product and initially it was going to be run on much lower hardware, at the last minute they improved it a bit.

Let's not forget the history. BB didn't put all the effort they could into BBOS, far from it.


#believeinfilm

I don't know. I think they put everything in they could and it wasn't enough.

[Raddin]

I don't know. I think they put everything in they could and it wasn't enough.

A proper theme builder release (something that was once announced as "coming soon") could have helped out some.

Geez, how I still miss themes and having customibility options other than deciding on a wallpaper and the order of icons.

[belfastdispatcher]

I don't know. I think they put everything in they could and it wasn't enough.

Let's look at the facts:

PlayBook launched before BB7 with a brand new OS based on QNX that will later become BB10. Which means they started work on the new OS in 2009 or earlier.

So don't tell me they didn't have the intention to drop BBOS, they probably thought they could do it sooner.

BB7 was an afterthought, it was a last minute half arsed effort. It was supposed to be OS6.1 and on lower hardware.

There is no evidence to show they did all they could with BBOS, they planned long ago to switch to BB10 or BBX as they used to call it.




#believeinfilm

[kbz1960]

Let's look at the facts:

PlayBook launched before BB7 with a brand new OS based on QNX that will later become BB10. Which means they started work on the new OS in 2009 or earlier.

So don't tell me they didn't have the intention to drop BBOS, they probably thought they could do it sooner.

BB7 was an afterthought, it was a last minute half arsed effort. It was supposed to be OS6.1 and on lower hardware.

There is no evidence to show they did all they could with BBOS, they planned long ago to switch to BB10 or BBX as they used to call it.




#believeinfilm

They exactly did intend to replace bobs because they already knew it was maxed out and there was no future in it unless all of their customers wanted to stay in the past.

[Alain_A]

Integrated with OS or its a app ?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

integrated in os

[belfastdispatcher]

They exactly did intend to replace bobs because they already knew it was maxed out and there was no future in it unless all of their customers wanted to stay in the past.

Them why did you agree when the other posted said this? You replied with "agreed"

"BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform."

Make up your mind!


#believeinfilm

[gruv4u]

Please let it go so bB10 can take off.

Z10 (STL 100-3) Superphone with vitamin 10.2.1.1925

[belfastdispatcher]

Please let it go so bB10 can take off.

Z10 (STL 100-3) Superphone with vitamin 10.2.1.1925

Yeah, because BBOS is what's holding BB10 back


#believeinfilm

[extisis]

Yeah, because BBOS is what's holding BB10 back


#believeinfilm

you're finally getting the clear picture. i'm proud of you.

[anon(6038817)]

Yeah, because BBOS is what's holding BB10 back


#believeinfilm

Can't tell if serious.

But let's face it, people. There are many reasons BB10 hasn't caught on with the masses. BBOS may be one of them, but I think there are other more prominent reasons. Like the fact that BB's marketing of BB10 devices to the public has been virtually non-existent, and the little marketing it has done is terrible.

[TgeekB]

Can't tell if serious.

But let's face it, people. There are many reasons BB10 hasn't caught on with the masses. BBOS may be one of them, but I think there are other more prominent reasons. Like the fact that BB's marketing of BB10 devices to the public has been virtually non-existent, and the little marketing it has done is terrible.

And timing.

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[Alain_A]

I begin to wonder even with marketing if that would of made a difference.

1- BB10 OS was not ready. too many problems when it first came out = High return
2- Learning curve = probably return because of that.
3- What they should have done was to put the content of the BBOS on top of OS 10 then fading it out slowly = Q20

[lnichols]

Let's look at the facts:

PlayBook launched before BB7 with a brand new OS based on QNX that will later become BB10. Which means they started work on the new OS in 2009 or earlier.

So don't tell me they didn't have the intention to drop BBOS, they probably thought they could do it sooner.

BB7 was an afterthought, it was a last minute half arsed effort. It was supposed to be OS6.1 and on lower hardware.

There is no evidence to show they did all they could with BBOS, they planned long ago to switch to BB10 or BBX as they used to call it.




#believeinfilm

Yes and the fact is that they went to this new OS because they knew that BBOS couldn't be turned into the the modern smartphone OS that the market was moving too. They were missing deadlines with BBOS deliveries, not wowing the market with BBOS or the devices and the prices, devices were having to be rebooted often due to memory leaks, it was creating a negative brand perception. People don't want to have to choose between great communications and a device with great apps or personal phone features, they want their cake and eat it too, and are showing they will comprise on one to have the other. BBOS had too many limitations on the app front that would cause developers to have to do a lot of work arounds to make larger apps work. With BB10 they can now use something like the Unity engine and make an app for iOS, Android and BB10 all at the same time. They can make multi Gig sized apparently.

What BlackBerry must do now is get the features that are the biggest holdup for people migrating and get them implemented into BB10 ASAP. This won't be BIS, that is a dead concept now with modern networks, but the OS features that are missing. Right now I don't see anything that I'm missing but obviously some do. They must also rehab the brand image as this is a huge barrier right now to adoption.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

Them why did you agree when the other posted said this? You replied with "agreed"

"BlackBerry OS led them here between 2007 and 2012. Remember - their first instinct was not to build a new platform - it was to try and make BlackBerry OS work as the existing platform."

Make up your mind!


#believeinfilm

You're not making sense.

[Dave Bourque]

I begin to wonder even with marketing if that would of made a difference.

1- BB10 OS was not ready. too many problems when it first came out = High return
2- Learning curve = probably return because of that.
3- What they should have done was to put the content of the BBOS on top of OS 10 then fading it out slowly = Q20

I don't buy the high return argument even learning curve is a insult to people's intelligence...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[belfastdispatcher]

I don't buy the high return argument even learning curve is a insult to people's intelligence...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

Don't buy the high return argument? Why do you think Vodafone UK is selling "nearly new" Z10s and Q10s?

Didn't Chen acknowledge that the learning curve is a problem in a recent interview?

#believeinfilm