[Old_Mil]

Well, here are my thoughts. I have used an iPhone and when that broke, Android. The reason I switched was security. I switched to a Curve 9330 because it was cheap and I wanted to try it out. It was OK. In the modern world BBOS is significantly inferior to competing platforms in all aspects except for security. I am willing to give up those features for security. I imagine that most consumers would not.

As for business, some businesses will be willing to sacrifice features for security. However as the capabilities of competing platforms continue to evolve fewer will make that choice. At some point the costs of maintaining the BIS/BBOS platform will outweigh the revenue generated by it as more people move to BB10 or competing platforms. This will kill the company. So like it or not the future is a BB10 only future - if there is a future (and I hope there is).

Since coming to Blackberry I have switched to the z10. I think this is a fantastic phone - good enough to move our two other family lines from Android. Don't really understand why it seems to be disliked. That is a switch that the other two phone users in the house would not have agreed to if it involved switching to BBOS.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

And these I believe are precisely the reason why BBRY resurrected production of legacy BBOS models. If not the only reason.

Yes, that's what this is all about, keeping Enterprises in the BlackBerry camp until everything is aligned just right for them to move on to BB10 and BES12.

If the re-manufactured 99xx phones end up in the hands of consumers too then so be it, short term quick win profit is the good stuff BlackBerry needs to go for right now.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[Bbnivende]

Have you wondered why? Most carriers only sell the 9720 and 9320 and the ones that still sell the 9900 have it seriously overpriced.

However, BB7 is not the problem, if BB10 was good enough everybody would've forgotten about BB7.

Let's concentrate on what the real problem is, for the time being BBOS is really the backbone of the company with over 55 million subscribers that bring in revenue monthly.

The 30 million lost did not make the change to BB10, that's the real problem.

(I'm assuming BB10 has 5 million subscribers)


#believeinfilm

The backbone is not BBOS per se, the backbone are the users who prefer or need an appliance phone. Essentially Blackberry phones are currently owned by people - businesses who mainly use their phones to text and e-mail. The user base is dropping at a time when iPhone and android user bases are increasing. Is it really BB10 that is the issue or is it that the world has moved on from physical keyboard limited use phones?

Even so, the BlackBerry classic style phone should be selling better. The BB10 version has not sold well because very few consumers have wanted to pay high prices for a phone with only a 3.1 inch screen. They need a $200 version of the Q20 just to maintain the base of the 55 million BB Classic format. I agree with BD that BlackBerry was very foolish in not improving and refining their Classic designs all along even as they were developing BB10. They should have and could have had a 3.5 inch screen bigger battery Curve and Bold back in 2012.

As for the all touch phones - there really has not been a compelling reason to buy one. People do not buy phones because of the OS. They just want them to work. The Z10 might have worked had it been priced at the same or lower than a Nexus 4 and it had a simple Playbook like OS that was nearly bug free and a larger battery as well. The Z30 might have worked if it had come out at the same time and was truly a flagship phone.

I guess they can turn the ship around yet if they can convince carriers to sell a really cheap but at the same time high quality phone and get an app store that sells android apps directly to the phone.

[RubberChicken76]

Hmm there will be straggler Enterprises still struggling on with BBOS this time next year, the ones that buy up these "new" Bold 99xx's for example!

Yeah - but they're going to be immaterial in volume for the most part. Which begs the bigger question - what happens then? It will be pretty clear something big will happen to BlackBerry. Either BlackBerry 10 starts to rise and more enterprises convert to it; or they convert to another platform altogether and BlackBerry stops making BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry OS handsets for the most part and does something else ... either android/windows phones or no phones at all.
someone.

[Dave Bourque]

Debatable - sales have been largely static (and low very low) and we are now seeing carrier support collapse - I would expect to see BB10 decrease in the next quarter as they finish burning off stock of sales duds like the Z30, Q5, Q10. Yes there will be be new phones but they will not be sold in enough places to make a difference - plus we are now in a timeframe where we will see some original z10 users churn away to other platforms.

That's your usual pessimistic perspective. Z3 is about to release and could very well save BB10 in sales numbers.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[TgeekB]

That's your usual pessimistic perspective. Z3 is about to release and could very well save BB10 in sales numbers.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I think people are being cautious. The Z10 was supposed to save Blackberry, then the Z30. We will have to wait and see if the Z3 is any different.

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[belfastdispatcher]

That's your usual pessimistic perspective. Z3 is about to release and could very well save BB10 in sales numbers.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

What's the Z3 USP against cheap androids?


#believeinfilm

[cgk]

That's your usual pessimistic perspective. Z3 is about to release and could very well save BB10 in sales numbers.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

Which has been pretty right all along? when the boosters get one right, I guess I'll reassess my view - as Belfast asks, what's the actual selling point of the z3? Now maybe are going to say "cheap" but we know there are whole raft of cheap Android and WP devices as cheap if not cheaper, maybe you are going to say security? But that hasn't made a differences to sales either? OS? No sign that makes any difference?

So what's actually new?

[Dave Bourque]

Which has been pretty right all along? when the boosters get one right, I guess I'll reassess my view - as Belfast asks, what's the actual selling point of the z3? Now maybe are going to say "cheap" but we know there are whole raft of cheap Android and WP devices as cheap if not cheaper, maybe you are going to say security? But that hasn't made a differences to sales either? OS? No sign that makes any difference?

So what's actually new?

Z3's battery life alone is huge. Lasts longer on one charge compared to the Z10. Is loaded with a adreno 305 vs Z10s adreno 225. Will release with a refined 10.2.1 OS which not many have witnessed yet so it is new for those people.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[belfastdispatcher]

Z3's battery life alone is huge. Lasts longer on one charge compared to the Z10. Is loaded with a adreno 305 vs Z10s adreno 225. Will release with a refined 10.2.1 OS which not many have witnessed yet so it is new for those people.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

So just battery? What if a cheap android comes out with a big battery?


#believeinfilm

[SmellWhole]

Non-bickering, off topic question:

Are the antennas and network technology the same on these two unlocked BB10 devices available from BlackBerry? Why does the Q10 spec say only "GSM" whereas the Z10 spec says "worldwide compatible GSM phone"? Is this Q10 not "worldwide compatible"?

[johnnyuk]

Yeah - but they're going to be immaterial in volume for the most part. Which begs the bigger question - what happens then? It will be pretty clear something big will happen to BlackBerry. Either BlackBerry 10 starts to rise and more enterprises convert to it; or they convert to another platform altogether and BlackBerry stops making BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry OS handsets for the most part and does something else ... either android/windows phones or no phones at all.
someone.

Everything BlackBerry is selling is immaterial in volume at the moment, that's the trouble. Let's hope the Z3 reverses the downward trend of BlackBerry handset sales regardless of the OS they run.

I can only see BlackBerry getting out of the hardware and OS market altogether to become a cross platform software and services company if BlackBerry 10 adoption doesn't become profitable in the next year or two. They had an opportunity to go down the secure Android fork route years ago and decided against it. I don't believe they have the resources, money or the time to a try a secure Android fork after all another year or two down the line from now. I also don't believe that Enterprise or consumers would give BlackBerry a 3rd chance to get their platform and Ecosystem sorted out by the time they had a secure Android product ready.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[johnnyuk]

That's your usual pessimistic perspective. Z3 is about to release and could very well save BB10 in sales numbers.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

The Z3 absolutely has to be pushed by BlackBerry with a marketing campaign for it to be a success in its intended consumer markets.

It can't be treated like the excellent Z30 which thanks to no marketing whatsoever from day one almost nobody knows even exists.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[cgk]

I can only see BlackBerry getting out of the hardware and OS market altogether and become a cross platform software and services company if BlackBerry 10 adoption doesn't become profitable in the next year or two.

Looks like Chen feels the same:

Chen made it clear that the production run for the Bold and introduction of the Classic should not be interpreted as a wholesale return to the smartphone business. Hardware and handsets will be part of the equation for at least two years, but after that it is anyone's guess.

"I hope it's not confusing to others that all of a sudden, 90 days later, I shift gears," Chen said. "It is nothing to do with that. I mean software and services going forward are still going to be where the growth engine is going to come from, and messaging."

Chen travelling the world to promote BlackBerry

[belfastdispatcher]

Looks like Chen feels the same:



Chen travelling the world to promote BlackBerry

I found this part scary, what the hell were they thinking?

"As part of cost-cutting, BlackBerry dismantled its enterprise sales teams. Chen is rebuilding the sales force, with teams set up to focus on government, financial, defence, security and corporate sectors. In the future, a sales team devoted to the medical sector will be organized."


#believeinfilm

[Dave Bourque]

I found this part scary, what the hell were they thinking?

"As part of cost-cutting, BlackBerry dismantled its enterprise sales teams. Chen is rebuilding the sales force, with teams set up to focus on government, financial, defence, security and corporate sectors. In the future, a sales team devoted to the medical sector will be organized."


#believeinfilm

Firing the people that failed in the first place ? Hiring new fresh people To replace ?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[belfastdispatcher]

Firing the people that failed in the first place ? Hiring new fresh people To replace ?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

Yeah, only after Chen took over, Thor dismantled it altogether.


#believeinfilm

[Dave Bourque]

Yeah, only after Chen took over, Thor dismantled it altogether.


#believeinfilm

I see. Yea that's incredibly dumb on Thors part... the more I look back on what he did the more screwed up it is.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[anon(6038817)]

I see. Yea that's incredibly dumb on Thors part... the more I look back on what he did the more screwed up it is.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I really think TH was put into a terrible situation and that we will never really know the full extent of how much his actions (or inaction) really impacted things for good or bad given the state of the company when he took the helm.

I do think Chen is one of the best people to be in the position now. If anyone can turn things around, he can. But I do things are going to get worse before they get better.

[anon(8063781)]

The more I learn about Chen, the more I like him. Great perspective. As he says, you're not going to win market share by downsizing. It's hard to believe that any CEO would dismantle the marketing division of a company, but it's pretty easy to tell that they did. I never saw a Z30 product launch or promotional campaign. It's the "Carlton the doorman" of smartphones.

[belfastdispatcher]

I see. Yea that's incredibly dumb on Thors part... the more I look back on what he did the more screwed up it is.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I have a feeling Thor was aiming BB10 mostly at the consumer market.


#believeinfilm

[dvarnai]

unfortunately os7 still has a lot of superior features that are highly anticipated in bb10, for example blocking specific phone calls...

[coldRooster]

unfortunately os7 still has a lot of superior features that are highly anticipated in bb10, for example blocking specific phone calls...

BB10 has that.


Posted via 10.3 on Verizon

[Superfly_FR]

After reading pages and pages... IMHO

Is it bad for BB10 that Bold get a re-producrion ? No.
Is that bad for BBOS that BB10 came ? No.

Is it good - today - for BlackBerry to offer a choice opportunity to ancient consumers ? Yes.

Will it capture new customers ? No.

Finally : Is there a problem ? No.


Posted via CB10

[TgeekB]

BB10 has that.


Posted via 10.3 on Verizon

I don't believe you can block specific calls. At least I haven't found a solution.

Posted via my Nexus 10.