[Droidophobe]

This thread has made it obvious that BlackBerry Traffic is the killer app that Android, iOS, etc. can't match. I'm amazed.

Is that all you were able to grasp from this thread?

[cbvinh]

Is that all you were able to grasp from this thread?

Well, that, and legacy BlackBerry users love their devices so much that they're willing to leave BlackBerry for a completely foreign experience, rather than move to BlackBerry 10, where efforts have been made to accommodate them.

[BLAZEDv3]

Well, that, and legacy BlackBerry users love their devices so much that they're willing to leave BlackBerry for a completely foreign experience, rather than move to BlackBerry 10, where efforts have been made to accommodate them.

Lol. Do you really think legacy BlackBerry users just jumped ship without giving bb10 a try? Every legacy user I've spoken to in person owns a bb10 device or has previously owned one. Gotta give it up to Android and Apple for always increasing the number of features and apps rather than decreasing them.

Posted via CB10

[diehardbbuser]

Well, that, and legacy BlackBerry users love their devices so much that they're willing to leave BlackBerry for a completely foreign experience, rather than move to BlackBerry 10, where efforts have been made to accommodate them.

Omg lol.

Really, most blackberry users have tablets that are probably iOS or android so not a far leap to understand what a phone would be like. Most have scene or heard about the user experience on bb10 and except for email, it faills behind significantly from iOS. That said, if you want a keyboard, really no other good option out there. My gf really needs and wants a keyboard, people I know with z10 hate them and only held on due to contracts and seeing what the classic and passport were like. Most of them jumped or will be to a keyboard device and most are going to the classic when out of contract because we all hate virtual keyboards. Most appreciate the passport but the size is just to big.

Without keyboard phones, I believe bb would official be dead by now in device manufacturing.

[cbvinh]

Lol. Do you really think legacy BlackBerry users just jumped ship without giving bb10 a try? Every legacy user I've spoken to in person owns a bb10 device or has previously owned one. Gotta give it up to Android and Apple for always increasing the number of features and apps rather than decreasing them.

The legacy users' main complaint is that BB10 isn't like BBOS7. They want another BBOS7 device, only faster, with updated hardware. However, if they can't have that, they'd rather go to something completely different, where the OS doesn't even attempt to mimic BBOS7 in any way. BlackBerry, at least, is trying to put BBOS7 features back in. Tool belt anyone? Android and iOS may be adding new features and apps all the time, but what BBOS7 features have they incorporated that makes their devices efficient to use to a Bold user?

[cbvinh]

Omg lol.

I was being facetious.

Really, most blackberry users have tablets that are probably iOS or android so not a far leap to understand what a phone would be like. Most have scene or heard about the user experience on bb10 and except for email, it faills behind significantly from iOS.

What user experience am I missing? I make phone calls, txt messages, use FB, Twitter, weather, email, browse, and most recently, play around with a fitness band.

That said, if you want a keyboard, really no other good option out there. My gf really needs and wants a keyboard, people I know with z10 hate them and only held on due to contracts and seeing what the classic and passport were like. Most of them jumped or will be to a keyboard device and most are going to the classic when out of contract because we all hate virtual keyboards. Most appreciate the passport but the size is just to big.

Without keyboard phones, I believe bb would official be dead by now in device manufacturing.

And yet there's been arguments that BlackBerry should abandon keyboards altogether and "get modern" with full touch only devices from now on...

[Droidophobe]

Most people have some specific things they want from a phone, whether it's a keyboard, or working with Outlook, or a zillion games, or facebooking with their friends. I don't understand the reluctance of some posters here to understand that BB's current phones and OS don't fulfill everyone's needs, and that becomes most obvious when the things that brought us to BB in the first place are eliminated. OS7 users main complaint isn't that we want better hardware, it's that we don't want things that are useful to us taken away. And I'm glad someone brought up phone size. The Passport is ludicrous, as is the latest iPhone, and it's a huge issue, no pun intended, for female customers who can't fit these bricks in their pockets or purses.

[Rahwscoe]

Blackberry Traffic is (for a few more days at least) the prime traffic app of all. It has voice turn by turn, express or collectors. A bar graph showing current traffic in two routes, you could choose your preference, constant updating of route if you deviated, and best of all the ability to predict your travel time based on existing traffic patterns. TomTom comes close, but side by side, Blackberry Traffic outperforms the TomTom traffic. Ease of use, set current location as a destination, the list goes on and on.

Eliminating Traffic is a backward step.

Currently we are evaluating Waze, however if the current Traffic is end of life, perhaps someone can get the code, update it to 10 and sell it on Amazon?

[Boattown Jim]

Do people here understand what crowd-sourcing means?

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I think that more than a few of us here understand what crowd sourcing means. The issue is that BB does not understand what using a situation like the obvious loyalty many of us had to the BB Traffic means as a business opportunity for themselves. They choose to anger many long-time users and cause us to go to Android and other devices rather than seeing this as an opportunity for new revenue from longtime users.

Example -- I know that I would be happy with paying a one time fee of around $50 to continue using BB Traffic. From reading this thread I think that there are likely quite a few others that would do the same. This would be new revenue from existing technology.....no build it and they will come like was done with 10. That thinking did not work for GM in the 80s..........and it will not work for BB now. Dictating to the market simply does not work! Alienating loyal customers is always a bad idea!
Instead of seizing this opportunity BB chooses to try to dictate to the market of existing users......a dwindling crowd at this point....and risk losing them for all time. NOT smart business.

BB customers on the older platform could generate a new revenue opportunity then as their devices meet the customers definition of EOL they would look on BB favorably and likely by another BB device in the future. They could create loyal customers will into the future by making BB Traffic available on a one time fee basis even if they lost the prior BB customer to Android or the like.

BB says they want to be a service company in the future.......and they **** away an opportunity for current revenue from an existing customer base......burn bridges with long-time users.....miss future revenue opportunities and wonder why they are having financial difficulties?

[conite]

I think that more than a few of us here understand what crowd sourcing means. The issue is that BB does not understand what using a situation like the obvious loyalty many of us had to the BB Traffic means as a business opportunity for themselves. They choose to anger many long-time users and cause us to go to Android and other devices rather than seeing this as an opportunity for new revenue from longtime users.

Example -- I know that I would be happy with paying a one time fee of around $50 to continue using BB Traffic. From reading this thread I think that there are likely quite a few others that would do the same. This would be new revenue from existing technology.....no build it and they will come like was done with 10. That thinking did not work for GM in the 80s..........and it will not work for BB now. Dictating to the market simply does not work! Alienating loyal customers is always a bad idea!
Instead of seizing this opportunity BB chooses to try to dictate to the market of existing users......a dwindling crowd at this point....and risk losing them for all time. NOT smart business.

BB customers on the older platform could generate a new revenue opportunity then as their devices meet the customers definition of EOL they would look on BB favorably and likely by another BB device in the future. They could create loyal customers will into the future by making BB Traffic available on a one time fee basis even if they lost the prior BB customer to Android or the like.

BB says they want to be a service company in the future.......and they **** away an opportunity for current revenue from an existing customer base......burn bridges with long-time users.....miss future revenue opportunities and wonder why they are having financial difficulties?

But a crowd-source app when almost no crowd exists any longer is useless. The whole point of the app was to select routes based on traffic data provided by other BlackBerry Traffic users. When there are almost no other users, the information is faulty.

Even ignoring the fact that the app no longer provides useful information, the costs of maintaining a service for a few hundred (or maybe a few thousand) people is prohibitive. Setting up an infrastructure to obtain subscription fees from a few hundred users would probably be even more expensive.

As a comparable, the iPhone 3gs, that was sold between 2010 and 2012 is barely functional now. The kids won't even touch it. It is completely unsupported and almost nothing works on it anymore. There are people demanding support for their 2011 Curves here that are prepared to burn BlackBerry's HQ down. Silly.

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[Boattown Jim]

But a crowd-source app when almost no crowd exists any longer is useless. The whole point of the app was to select routes based on traffic data provided by other BlackBerry Traffic users. When there are almost no other users, the information is faulty.

Even ignoring the fact that the app no longer provides useful information, the costs of maintaining a service for a few hundred (or maybe a few thousand) people is prohibitive. Setting up an infrastructure to obtain subscription fees from a few hundred users would probably be even more expensive.

As a comparable, the iPhone 3gs, that was sold between 2010 and 2012 is barely functional now. The kids won't even touch it. It is completely unsupported and almost nothing works on it anymore. There are people demanding support for their 2011 Curves here that are prepared to burn BlackBerry's HQ down. Silly.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.2267

You are missing the entire point......just like BB.

Many people use their BB for things other than toys. That is common thread in BB client base. If I wanted a toy I certainly would not be a BB user. You also seem to be hung up on the age of the device. Many people don't feel compelled to keep up with the flavor of the day. They want something that is functional and reliable as my BBs have been going back to 2008 or so.

The BB Traffic application is a good one and has loyal followers as demonstrated by some of the comments here. The crowd that you reference will grow much smaller when treated poorly by the vendor....BB. You should study marketing numbers regarding the cost of acquiring new customers as opposed to maintaining new ones. Once customer is alienated by a vendor the typically do not come back and if they do it is a long way down the road.

You also suggest a market size of a few hundred to a few thousand. Are you using an actual reliable market analysis tool as a source for these numbers or are you using your best guess? Fees could be adjusted to market size. You might be surprised what the perceived value might.

The BB Traffic application could be a profit center if marketed correctly. It is fully integrated with the operating system. Charging a modest fee to willing subscribers to maintain and enhance the service could make sense. BB should have an actual projection of potential market size.....if they don't there are in bigger trouble that any of us might think. They could have at least done a survey along with the EOL announcement.


BB is trying to be more of a service provider.....deals with car companies providing software that links the car based communication system....ala Ford. They have other initiatives that promote and provide software based solutions in the corporate environment.....yet they don't hesitate to burn bridges with long-time customers.

[cbvinh]

The BB Traffic application could be a profit center if marketed correctly.

Is this a joke? Some exisitng users will pay for it and some will not. Charging a fee, right there, will reduce the number of users. Then, charging an ongoing fee will turn away the users that only want to pay a one-time fee, like they're used to for GPS devices. The user base will only go down, and as that base goes down, the quality of the data to get users around traffic will diminish to the point of it being worthless. Would people still pay for that?

It is fully integrated with the operating system. Charging a modest fee to willing subscribers to maintain and enhance the service could make sense. BB should have an actual projection of potential market size.....if they don't there are in bigger trouble that any of us might think. They could have at least done a survey along with the EOL announcement.

Why not get a new device with BlackBerry Maps and suggest BlackBerry Traffic features you want on it? At this point, you've gotten your money's worth out of BlackBerry Traffic; that is, you've paid none.

[conite]

@boattownjim:
You want to set up a service infrastructure for a platform that essentially went eol over two years ago?

The devices themselves will cease to function within a couple of years as they physically fall apart. Even BIS will be dropped by the carriers before that.

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[HershL]

It appears that BB Traffic also uses historical traffic data, that it's not just a crowd-sourced app:
BlackBerry Traffic App Comes Out Of Beta - BerryReview
Seems to work for me based on whatever algorithm it's using.

I'm one of those legacy users that haven't upgraded because 1) I haven't found something that I really need over my bold, and 2) I don't want to deal with ATT, right now I'm month by month, no contract, and I don't want to pay a fortune for a new phone.

I received the email from BB, and have started looking at BB 10 phones, and disappointed that even if I upgrade, I won't have the same functionality. I use this app every day, and it's really nice to see the graphical display of the traffic that Maps doesn't have.

Reading about some of the issues with the new BB's, I'm definitely going to be looking at the other phones. And that makes me sad. I've been a BB user for over a decade. Now that I know that Traffic isn't available on BB 10, I'm certainly in no hurry to make this decision. Disappointed to hear about the calendar issues too, since that's a main use for my current cell - I really appreciate not having to go through something like gmail, and something that works with Outlook at work. Not sure what I'm going to do with a phone that no longer fits in my back pocket....

[conite]

It appears that BB Traffic also uses historical traffic data, that it's not just a crowd-sourced app:
BlackBerry Traffic App Comes Out Of Beta - BerryReview
Seems to work for me based on whatever algorithm it's using.

I'm one of those legacy users that haven't upgraded because 1) I haven't found something that I really need over my bold, and 2) I don't want to deal with ATT, right now I'm month by month, no contract, and I don't want to pay a fortune for a new phone.

I received the email from BB, and have started looking at BB 10 phones, and disappointed that even if I upgrade, I won't have the same functionality. I use this app every day, and it's really nice to see the graphical display of the traffic that Maps doesn't have.

Reading about some of the issues with the new BB's, I'm definitely going to be looking at the other phones. And that makes me sad. I've been a BB user for over a decade. Now that I know that Traffic isn't available on BB 10, I'm certainly in no hurry to make this decision. Disappointed to hear about the calendar issues too, since that's a main use for my current cell - I really appreciate not having to go through something like gmail, and something that works with Outlook at work. Not sure what I'm going to do with a phone that no longer fits in my back pocket....

No need to feel sad. You'll get used to whatever device you end up with, regardless of the brand. I will say that BB10 is still very much a "BlackBerry" experience. I have been using BlackBerry since 2006. Yes there is a transition. Yes things don't work exactly the same. Yes some features did not make it to BB10. But after all is said and done, BB10 is far superior to BBOS overall. It is still the most BlackBerry'ish of any of the modern platforms.

Waze is the best crowd-source traffic app on the planet (Google paid millions to buy it), and works great. BlackBerry maps does a decent job too. I sometimes miss the clean, simple UI of BlackBerry Traffic, but the world moves on. The new apps are so much more feature rich.

I sometimes think back and wonder how I was able to get by on BBOS as I have since expanded what I do on a smartphone by a substantial margin.

As far as the gripes about the latest 10.3.1 update: it's the same story after any major update on any platform. There are always a percentage of people who don't like the changes and a percentage of people who experience problems with the OTA process. Don't let that stop you.

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[John Crist]

There will always be "that thread" that dismisses OS7 because of age.

I've been using BB10 since it's launch. I'm in the process of switching back to OS7. I, along with many other legacy users, see the benefits of BB10 and it indeed is the future of BlackBerry.

There's an atmosphere among iOS users and Android users that I've talked about in a past post. iOS users tend to be far more snobbier than anyone else when I meet them. I don't think I've found one iOS user that hasn't tried to convert me on some cool factor. The second they see the Berry logo on my phone, I'm suddenly a heathen that needs cleansed in the Temple of Apple. Android users are all about their ROMs and pushing the envelope. I'm a fairly active developer and former ROM developer. I started with 1.4 and stopped right after Lollipop launched. Jesus, if another Android user tries to talk me down from my Berry on the basis of customization I'll smack a kitten. Put an iOS user and an Android user in the same thread and grab some popcorn.

BlackBerry users tend to crowd, but in a healthy communal way. I like to think of the crowd as your classic Mayberry crowd. Same with Windows Phone users. We keep to ourselves, we tend not to bother anyone, and we only talk our devices up when asked about them. We don't go out of our way to smack people down on their choice of device.

Sadly that Mayberry feel is coming to an end, much like the early days where you could post on a bulletin board with like-minded people and be left the hell alone. People had respect then. These last few generations of human seem to have forgotten what that is.

OS7 is proven. It works, and it works extremely reliably. It's the evolution of an OS that represents mastery in it's function.

BB10 is a move to make use of QNX. That experiment started with the Playbook. I hope you haven't forgotten how that turned out. BB10 is an attempt to catch up with the rest of the world and stay relevant. It gets better and better, but it's also trying to please an alarming number of demographics and in doing so it is a jack of all trades, but master of none.

I love Hub. I love my Z30's virtual keyboard. I love the Classic's physical keyboard.

The toolbelt feels like an afterthought, and truly it is. It was thrown in with an OS that wasn't designed with it in mind and that shows in it's function.

Lastly, as was stated earlier -- It isn't my responsibility to keep up with devices from a company just because they release new devices. It's the company's responsibility to release devices I would actually want to buy. After exploring the wide plethora of BB10 devices, there isn't a single BB10 device I want. If you enjoy BB10, great! I'm really happy about that, because we should be using the devices we like. I hope with that you'll eventually learn to respect the views of those who feel their old Bold 9900's are the superior device. Afterall, the 9900s were the most sturdy and well build of them all, at least in my opinion. Those devices were meant to be broken in, not broken down, to quote.

[cbvinh]

There will always be "that thread" that dismisses OS7 because of age.

I've been using BB10 since it's launch. I'm in the process of switching back to OS7. I, along with many other legacy users, see the benefits of BB10 and it indeed is the future of BlackBerry.

There's an atmosphere among iOS users and Android users that I've talked about in a past post. iOS users tend to be far more snobbier than anyone else when I meet them. I don't think I've found one iOS user that hasn't tried to convert me on some cool factor. The second they see the Berry logo on my phone, I'm suddenly a heathen that needs cleansed in the Temple of Apple. Android users are all about their ROMs and pushing the envelope. I'm a fairly active developer and former ROM developer. I started with 1.4 and stopped right after Lollipop launched. Jesus, if another Android user tries to talk me down from my Berry on the basis of customization I'll smack a kitten. Put an iOS user and an Android user in the same thread and grab some popcorn.

BlackBerry users tend to crowd, but in a healthy communal way. I like to think of the crowd as your classic Mayberry crowd. Same with Windows Phone users. We keep to ourselves, we tend not to bother anyone, and we only talk our devices up when asked about them. We don't go out of our way to smack people down on their choice of device.

Sadly that Mayberry feel is coming to an end, much like the early days where you could post on a bulletin board with like-minded people and be left the hell alone. People had respect then. These last few generations of human seem to have forgotten what that is.

OS7 is proven. It works, and it works extremely reliably. It's the evolution of an OS that represents mastery in it's function.

BB10 is a move to make use of QNX. That experiment started with the Playbook. I hope you haven't forgotten how that turned out. BB10 is an attempt to catch up with the rest of the world and stay relevant. It gets better and better, but it's also trying to please an alarming number of demographics and in doing so it is a jack of all trades, but master of none.

I love Hub. I love my Z30's virtual keyboard. I love the Classic's physical keyboard.

The toolbelt feels like an afterthought, and truly it is. It was thrown in with an OS that wasn't designed with it in mind and that shows in it's function.

Lastly, as was stated earlier -- It isn't my responsibility to keep up with devices from a company just because they release new devices. It's the company's responsibility to release devices I would actually want to buy. After exploring the wide plethora of BB10 devices, there isn't a single BB10 device I want. If you enjoy BB10, great! I'm really happy about that, because we should be using the devices we like. I hope with that you'll eventually learn to respect the views of those who feel their old Bold 9900's are the superior device. Afterall, the 9900s were the most sturdy and well build of them all, at least in my opinion. Those devices were meant to be broken in, not broken down, to quote.

I think some Symbian users feel the same way as you. The year Nokia pulled the plug on Symbian, to go all Windows Phone, Symbian was at its height, with the Belle OS release and the release of the Nokia 808 with PureView.

I haven't been using BlackBerry that long, only since the 9850, but it was my first jump to smartphones from a flip phone. While the 9850 wasn't necessarily the most advanced smartphone at the time, it did have the high resolution display I was waiting for (at least 800 x 480) and OTA updates (which for a person using GNU/Linux, meant I didn't need Windows or MacOS to update, which was definitely the case with iOS, and I think Android at the time). I guess I'm saying that I didn't really didn't have that much time with BBOS7 before BB10. However, I did have enough experience to say that I appreciate the improvements of BB10 over BBOS7, mainly with the browser. I definitely don't miss the battery pulls to fix things, the long boot times, and the reboots necessary after app installs.

[conite]

OS7 is proven. It works, and it works extremely reliably. It's the evolution of an OS that represents mastery in it's function.

That's all well and good. I don't disagree that if it works for you then fine.

What we're discussing here is the expectation that BlackBerry should continue to support and perhaps even develop new infrastructure to support BBOS7 - a product that has been EOL for over two years - a product that relies on BIS (something that carriers will soon be dropping) - a product where the 3, 4, and 5 year old devices (although well made in their day) will start to fall apart.

Like it our not, 10.3.1 is where BB10 is at. The Classic is as close as BlackBerry will ever come to court BBOS users. If you don't want to support BlackBerry and get the closest thing out there to the traditional BlackBerry experience, then don't - go Android or iOS. If you want to help BlackBerry survive and keep the BlackBerry experience alive (in the form it has become), then get a BB10 phone. But I think it is time to pee or get off the pot. We don't owe BlackBerry anything - this is about being self-serving.

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[John Crist]

Right, and I don't disagree at all on any point. You're absolutely right that the Classic and 10.3.1 is, at current, the closest a BBOS user will get to an OS7-like device. If we want to support BBRY, that's the direction we need to go.

The problem is that even though it's the closest we will get, that doesn't make the cost/benefit worth it for a lot of users. For the prosumer this isn't as big of a deal, but there are professionals in the world that either A) Literally have 0 time to dedicate to the learning curve because they truly are that busy, or B) Their company hasn't yet made the transition so OS7 devices are as good as it's going to get and that's not something they can help.

I personally fall in camp C) The prosumer that came, saw, and left. I know that my choice isn't conductive to supporting BBRY and I accept that. My reasons for going back were stated earlier so it's not something I'll regurgitate again and insult your intelligence with. To be honest I'm sitting here typing this post wondering if I should say to hell with all and get a Classic again, because your points have merit. At the same time I realize that my last experience with the Classic lasted a month, with the latest OS, and was cut short because even though BB10 truly, and I'm being serious, is all that and a bag of chips, to me it wasn't a master of anything, particularly the things I personally would expect it to be the master of. Yes, I could switch to iLand or Android, but why do that when I could just switch to what works, EOL or not.


Sidebar, and I'm not saying you're fibbing, but do you have sources you can link stating that BIS will be loosing support in the short term? Reason I ask is that if that is the case and it's as imminent as that, that's something I need to spread around work and something I personally would like to read up on.

Posted via CB10

[mdmullis]

Several versions of Google maps from other than Google are available and solid for use.

Check th out in BlackBerry World.

Michael

Posted via CB10

[John Crist]

Several versions of Google maps from other than Google are available and solid for use.

Check th out in BlackBerry World.

Michael

Posted via CB10

Can you report that Google Maps apps support TbT Directions?

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Sidebar, and I'm not saying you're fibbing, but do you have sources you can link stating that BIS will be loosing support in the short term? Reason I ask is that if that is the case and it's as imminent as that, that's something I need to spread around work and something I personally would like to read up on.

Posted via CB10

I wish I could point you to an article on it, but I can't. It's more rumblings I'm hearing. The countries with larger BBOS usage rates will obviously hold out the longest, but other areas will start dropping.

In any event, moving from BBOS will ultimately become a necessity. The question is whether it will be easier to do later than it is today. I don't think it will.

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[conite]

Can you report that Google Maps apps support TbT Directions?

Posted via CB10

First off, I have no problem with Google Maps itself. But if you want to stay native, BeMaps Pro uses Google's data, and shunts to BlackBerry Maps for the turn by turn navigation.

I still prefer Waze over all of them.

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[tgriv]

TomTom should come close: RIM partners with TomTom for real-time traffic data and mapping (By Adam Zeis on 8 May 2012 09:32 am EDT)

[mad_mdx]

Uhh it gets the job done and better and more efficiently and duh legacy duh they should've never gone with bb10 and legacy makes me a super multitasking android from the 4th millennium and it makes me look like the professional business man I obviously am

Yeah!