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12-21-10 11:43 AM
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  1. syb0rg's Avatar
    But essentially this hurts / punishes users who purchase an app, with some sort of expectation to privacy, yet find their info being distributed just the same as one who pirates the same software?

    It comes down to the developer, vs the user. If the developer is pushing out shady apps, strike them down / dont support the developer. If a user pirates an app, same deal, strike em down. Dont lump everyone in together, and allow the excuse of recouping losses due to pirates, in order to breach privacy of all users.

    Maybe the system needs a change, in that developers should be required to have a section explaining what preferences/requirements have to be set to allow, and the reasoning behind it. Then users can make a more informed decision to purchase and support developers who put that time and effort into full disclosure (a pain in the arse for them I am sure). That would focus my purchase habits to developers that go the extra mile in distinguishing themselves further from a more shifty J-Co like situation.
    IT doesn't really hurt the end users of the applications. 9 out of 10 times, the developer doesn't care who is on your phone address book, nor do they care who you e-mail. The only thing they are worried about is what you surf on the web so they can target advertisements that attract your attention. That's it no more, no less. And if you read the reviews of the application you can easily find out if anyone else was complaining about leached information, or what ever else is out there.

    One of the plus sides to open source, i can/you can/anyone can download the source for the application and see if there is anything shady going on, and if there is the can remove that coding and resubmit the program.... makes things really nice, and a added sense of security because even you you or I cannot read a coding someone out there is looking out for the little guys. Instead of eating whatever is put on our plate w/o knowing exactly what is in it.
    12-20-10 08:05 AM
  2. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Was already posted in news and rumors: http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/app...ission-568768/

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-20-10 10:25 AM
  3. syb0rg's Avatar
    Was already posted in news and rumors: http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/app...ission-568768/

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Actually this was posted Yesterday, the one you linked to was started today.
    12-20-10 10:52 AM
  4. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    IT doesn't really hurt the end users of the applications. 9 out of 10 times, the developer doesn't care who is on your phone address book, nor do they care who you e-mail. The only thing they are worried about is what you surf on the web so they can target advertisements that attract your attention. That's it no more, no less. And if you read the reviews of the application you can easily find out if anyone else was complaining about leached information, or what ever else is out there.

    One of the plus sides to open source, i can/you can/anyone can download the source for the application and see if there is anything shady going on, and if there is the can remove that coding and resubmit the program.... makes things really nice, and a added sense of security because even you you or I cannot read a coding someone out there is looking out for the little guys. Instead of eating whatever is put on our plate w/o knowing exactly what is in it.
    And that helps consumers how? Even tailored Google ads that work off cookies from other sites, all they do is throw up an ad for the places you visit regularly anyway, so WTF good is that to the consumer. If I visit a particular site to buy something or read up on stuff and then see stupid Google ads that are about that site on Forums or other news sites, WTF good is that to me? How does that help me?! It doens't, because I already visit those sites and there's no way in **** I'll be clicking on those ads anyway, so no click, no revenue.

    Again, tailored ads are bullisht... they don't do anything good for the consumer because they don't advertise "similar goods" they advertise the sites you're already visiting on a regular basis, so they're useless!
    12-20-10 11:46 AM
  5. syb0rg's Avatar
    And that helps consumers how? Even tailored Google ads that work off cookies from other sites, all they do is throw up an ad for the places you visit regularly anyway, so WTF good is that to the consumer. If I visit a particular site to buy something or read up on stuff and then see stupid Google ads that are about that site on Forums or other news sites, WTF good is that to me? How does that help me?! It doens't, because I already visit those sites and there's no way in **** I'll be clicking on those ads anyway, so no click, no revenue.

    Again, tailored ads are bullisht... they don't do anything good for the consumer because they don't advertise "similar goods" they advertise the sites you're already visiting on a regular basis, so they're useless!
    I never said it HELPS the end consumer. IF i did please quote me on it and i'll retract my statement.

    But it's not worth running around screaming "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING ME, THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END" and feeling the back of your neck wondering if there is a chip that has manifested it self by virtue of shots you get at the Doctors office.

    And just for the record those ads do generate revenue even if you do not click on them. Just like Ad on TV generate revenue, and you cannot click on those.

    and i do agree they are pointless to put on the screen. only if they advertise to the site you visit commonly.
    amazinglygraceless likes this.
    12-20-10 12:18 PM
  6. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    I never said it HELPS the end consumer. IF i did please quote me on it and i'll retract my statement.

    But it's not worth running around screaming "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING ME, THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END"
    Earns my vote for smartest guy in the room.
    syb0rg likes this.
    12-20-10 12:40 PM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just want to make a point, dsoesnt matter if they are harmless or not, to collect your data they are using your data plan which you pay for.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-20-10 12:56 PM
  8. syb0rg's Avatar
    Just want to make a point, dsoesnt matter if they are harmless or not, to collect your data they are using your data plan which you pay for.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You do make a valid point, and one that cannot be argued on. How ever, the amount of information they are leaching cannot be all that much. If that they are wanting to an round about age / sex/ and how much time you spend on the application itself. The advertisements via the browser cookies cannot be to much either.
    12-20-10 01:54 PM
  9. stackberry369's Avatar
    Anyone remember the rockwell song featuring micheal jackson?that applies to life in general."I always feel like,somebody's watching me".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-20-10 02:02 PM
  10. hexwulf's Avatar
    IT doesn't really hurt the end users of the applications. 9 out of 10 times, the developer doesn't care who is on your phone address book, nor do they care who you e-mail. The only thing they are worried about is what you surf on the web so they can target advertisements that attract your attention. That's it no more, no less. And if you read the reviews of the application you can easily find out if anyone else was complaining about leached information, or what ever else is out there.
    My response stating it hurt the end user/consumer was more directed in response to the quoted text. It seemed to be saying it was ok to send out personal info (no specific levels of how deep were mentioned) to counter piracy.

    One of the plus sides to open source, i can/you can/anyone can download the source for the application and see if there is anything shady going on, and if there is the can remove that coding and resubmit the program.... makes things really nice, and a added sense of security because even you you or I cannot read a coding someone out there is looking out for the little guys. Instead of eating whatever is put on our plate w/o knowing exactly what is in it.
    Agree 100%, alas I dont see that playing out in the mobile world, let alone the Blackberry platform. My suggestion later on was a pipe/daydream as an alternative.
    12-20-10 02:38 PM
  11. hexwulf's Avatar
    You do make a valid point, and one that cannot be argued on. How ever, the amount of information they are leaching cannot be all that much. If that they are wanting to an round about age / sex/ and how much time you spend on the application itself. The advertisements via the browser cookies cannot be to much either.
    True, however, if someone steals a few cents from each bank transaction, or defrauds/misleads/tricks someone into paying for something they dont actually need, there is still a cost to that, and it's wrong (in my book at least).

    As for not running around claiming the world is ending, true, however, one should not discount it as 100% crazy ramblings, nor should one be contented with the "Just relax" / soft whispers from the "shifty devs" in the other ear stating your privacy is in no danger. Both sides need to be taken into account, and find a middle-ground.

    Apologies for what seems to be me targeting your posts, unintentional. Must be cuz you're the smart kid present

    Cheers
    12-20-10 02:44 PM
  12. syb0rg's Avatar
    True, however, if someone steals a few cents from each bank transaction, or defrauds/misleads/tricks someone into paying for something they dont actually need, there is still a cost to that, and it's wrong (in my book at least).

    As for not running around claiming the world is ending, true, however, one should not discount it as 100% crazy ramblings, nor should one be contented with the "Just relax" / soft whispers from the "shifty devs" in the other ear stating your privacy is in no danger. Both sides need to be taken into account, and find a middle-ground.

    Apologies for what seems to be me targeting your posts, unintentional. Must be cuz you're the smart kid present

    Cheers
    I have no ill feelings, like i've said before if you want to make me mad tell me Popeye's Chicken is out of business.

    I agree with your. Stealing is stealing if you agree to it or not. However here lies the problem.
    Attachment 78950

    When you go to install a program, that program ask for your permission to access certain features of your phone. Now in this case i went do download WinAmp for my android which is a Music player for music with on my phone. Why in the world would that applications want access to my phone records, or need internet access??? Who really care. The question lies in "Do i want to give WinAmp permission to access those features of my phone?". People give permission like this all day long and then run and scream when they find out their information gets leached. It's called Common Sense, not the book by Glenn Beck, but a thought process that spans more than "WOW Justin Bieber will sound good on my phone now YES I WANT WINAMP! ! ! "
    12-20-10 03:00 PM
  13. syb0rg's Avatar
    My response stating it hurt the end user/consumer was more directed in response to the quoted text. It seemed to be saying it was ok to send out personal info (no specific levels of how deep were mentioned) to counter piracy.


    Agree 100%, alas I dont see that playing out in the mobile world, let alone the Blackberry platform. My suggestion later on was a pipe/daydream as an alternative.
    I have no problem will anyone accessing my phone checking on piracy applications. I don't do it and will not advocate doing it. to many risk lay in the unknown of what someone may have added to the program. my only problem is this. There is a program for Androids called SetCPU, which the developer gives out for free on the XDA forums, for testing purposes in exchange for log reports. But whenever their is an official update Google Market thinks i've pirated the program because they have no record of me buying it. but in all honesty i didn't need to by it since i got it from XDA Developers. So who is in the wrong the developer for giving his program out. Or the Market denying me from upgrading that way.
    12-20-10 03:06 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You do make a valid point, and one that cannot be argued on. How ever, the amount of information they are leaching cannot be all that much. If that they are wanting to an round about age / sex/ and how much time you spend on the application itself. The advertisements via the browser cookies cannot be to much either.
    Put yourself in a roaming situation and that app will actually cost you money in extra data charges.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-20-10 03:46 PM
  15. syb0rg's Avatar
    Put yourself in a roaming situation and that app will actually cost you money in extra data charges.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    When i travel. Which i admit i don't do frequently. I turn off my phone's data for that very reason. I don't want to be charged for my buddies contacting me via Google talk or sending me a @mention on twitter.
    12-20-10 03:52 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    When i travel. Which i admit i don't do frequently. I turn off my phone's data for that very reason. I don't want to be charged for my buddies contacting me via Google talk or sending me a @mention on twitter.
    Ha, you should get a blackberry then, 250-300 bbms, 20 photos and a few voicenotes resulted in only 1.84mb of roaming data when my wife was in NY for a week.
    12-20-10 04:21 PM
  17. syb0rg's Avatar
    Ha, you should get a blackberry then, 250-300 bbms, 20 photos and a few voicenotes resulted in only 1.84mb of roaming data when my wife was in NY for a week.
    I'll stay away from Blackberry, I sold my 9700 for a cool 100.00USD (3 months old) and felt like i was ripping her off. Different discussion for a different thread.
    Last edited by syb0rg; 12-20-10 at 04:27 PM.
    12-20-10 04:25 PM
  18. BB 4 me's Avatar
    People give permission like this all day long and then run and scream when they find out their information gets leached. It's called Common Sense... I WANT WINAMP! ! ! "
    It is not hard to imagine most people are oblivious to issues of internet and mobile phone use. It might be time for them to wake up for a moment.

    We are loosing our privacy and freedoms a little piece at a time. I am grateful for groups like Crackberry where I can learn how to protect myself and help others that are also concerned. I'm looking forward to reading some constructive posts that can help with smartphone use.
    Last edited by BB 4 me; 12-20-10 at 10:47 PM.
    12-20-10 05:00 PM
  19. woodworthjohnca's Avatar
    As a new BB user I was surprised to see a lot of apps ask me to leave my phone wide open to tracking (and what else?) "Quick pull 5.0.2" which I downloaded for free seems to need a lot of information about me just to reboot my phone.

    From The Wall Street Journal:

    December 18, 2010

    Your Apps Are Watching You

    The results of an investigation of smartphones are disturbing.

    By Scott Thurm and Yukari Iwatani Kane


    Few devices know more personal details about people than the smartphones in their pockets: phone numbers, current location, often the owner's real nameeven a unique ID number that can never be changed or turned off.

    These phones don't keep secrets. They are sharing this personal data widely and regularly, a Wall Street Journal investigation has found.

    An examination of 101 popular smartphone "apps"games and other software applications for iPhone and Android phonesshowed that 56 transmitted the phone's unique device ID to other companies without users' awareness or consent. Forty-seven apps transmitted the phone's location in some way. Five sent age, gender and other personal details to outsiders.

    The findings reveal the intrusive effort by online-tracking companies to gather personal data about people in order to flesh out detailed dossiers on them.

    Among the apps tested, the iPhone apps transmitted more data than the apps on phones using Google Inc.'s Android operating system. Because of the test's size, it's not known if the pattern holds among the hundreds of thousands of apps available.

    Apps sharing the most information included TextPlus 4, a popular iPhone app for text messaging. It sent the phone's unique ID number to eight ad companies and the phone's zip code, along with the user's age and gender, to two of them.

    Both the Android and iPhone versions of Pandora, a popular music app, sent age, gender, location and phone identifiers to various ad networks. iPhone and Android versions of a game called Paper Tossplayers try to throw paper wads into a trash caneach sent the phone's ID number to at least five ad companies. Grindr, an iPhone app for meeting gay men, sent gender, location and phone ID to three ad companies.

    "In the world of mobile, there is no anonymity," says Michael Becker of the Mobile Marketing Association, an industry trade group. A cellphone is "always with us. It's always on."

    Alt, shift, Del works faster anyway.

    OK, start flaming the newbie
    You are right on with this. Not only is there a ton of information about you--a dossier about YOU that you don't have any access or insight into--but it can be around for an indefinite time and used for unknown purposes. Possibly it will be possessed by someone for the rest of your life. Maybe you think there can be nothing incriminating in it, or nothing wrong, or nothing that is not naive or innocent, or maybe someone else used your phone and you will prove it when the time comes (won't you)... But then again, some day a door (figurative or literal) may shut on you somewhere and you may never know why.

    This is a major invasion of privacy and few seem worried about its implications.
    12-20-10 08:15 PM
  20. SCrid2000's Avatar
    I certainly don't want my info being given out. But with BlackBerry, it seems like the worst that has ever happened is that I've gotten some junk mail - is much more even possible on BlackBerry?
    12-21-10 12:49 AM
  21. syb0rg's Avatar
    It is not hard to imagine most people are oblivious to issues of internet and mobile phone use. It might be time for them to wake up for a moment.

    We are loosing our privacy and freedoms a little piece at a time. I am grateful for groups like Crackberry where I can learn how to protect myself and help others that are also concerned. I'm looking forward to reading some constructive posts that can help with smartphone use.
    True i hope this is a wake up call. And for many it might be, for me it's really not a wake up. But i think it's that people have used smart phones for YEARS and just now realizing that some of the applications they are downloading wants full internet access, when the applications have nothing to do with needing the internet. Such as this WinAmp player i mentioned.
    12-21-10 08:00 AM
  22. syb0rg's Avatar
    I certainly don't want my info being given out. But with BlackBerry, it seems like the worst that has ever happened is that I've gotten some junk mail - is much more even possible on BlackBerry?
    It really depends on how the developer programed the applications you use. I am not a coder, nor to i claim to be one. but i do tinker around with it pre-existing protocols out there. Just to see how stuff works. Some of the applications might pull stuff like application usage time. They might read the browser cookies to see what web-sites you visit and suggest like minded sites. It really depends on the developer. and if you give permission for it, anything is possible.
    12-21-10 08:04 AM
  23. BBMINI's Avatar
    I heard about this study a few weeks ago. Thought it was interesting but, unfortunately, not surprising.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-21-10 11:43 AM
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