[belfastdispatcher]

Is the data plan that you're using at the moment that much cheaper then a BIS data plan? In most of the world it's the same price, some maybe not, but regardless what country you're in you will pay for data. So what's the big deal?

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[blue81to]

I plan on getting a Virgin Mobile USA prepaid phone on the $25 per month plan. BIS is an additional $10. But if I get another smartphone it will just be $25 per month.

There should be an option for people who don't want or need BIS. If they're not using any of the BIS features that BIS provides(bbm, etc) than why force people to use BIS?

If I wasn't specifically looking to use BIS features than it would be a factor for me. $10 is 40% of what my $25 bill would of been without BIS.

[NetworkGuy]

I plan on getting a Virgin Mobile USA prepaid phone on the $25 per month plan. BIS is an additional $10. But if I get another smartphone it will just be $25 per month.

There should be an option for people who don't want or need BIS. If they're not using any of the BIS features that BIS provides(bbm, etc) than why force people to use BIS?

If I wasn't specifically looking to use BIS features than it would be a factor for me. $10 is 40% of what my $25 bill would of been without BIS.

My question to you: Why even get a Blackberry if you don't want BIS? If you aren't worried about the security that BIS gives your messages coming/going to you then you should be looking/using a Droid or iPhone IMO.

[Rootbrian]

My question to you: Why even get a Blackberry if you don't want BIS? If you aren't worried about the security that BIS gives your messages coming/going to you then you should be looking/using a Droid or iPhone IMO.

Or a feature phone.

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[ADGrant]

No, what he is saying is that each platform has things it is good at and things it isn't good at. Most consumers want a smartphone that will let them play "Angry Birds" and they don't care anything about security. They just want to get their mail and text messages and data streams. Blackberry is not a solution for these consumers. The consumers or corporations who want security and the peace of mind that their data is secure and encrypted, then the Blackberry is the solution.

For most consumers.. Blackberry is not the smartphone they should be considering.

Most consumers have their email accounts on services like gmail which offer no security. Very few consumers want the kind of security a BES Blackberry provides.

[ADGrant]

My question to you: Why even get a Blackberry if you don't want BIS? If you aren't worried about the security that BIS gives your messages coming/going to you then you should be looking/using a Droid or iPhone IMO.

I am, problem is I love the form factor and keyboard/phone buttons that a Bold provides.

[liestarter]

I have found several apps that don't work with the phone radio off, even. They require access to the celular network on initial startup (just after install) and then you can turn the radio off and they will work. Extremely frustrating when in an area that doesn't have service coverage, but does have WI-FI.

I feel your pain.

[belfastdispatcher]

I am, problem is I love the form factor and keyboard/phone buttons that a Bold provides.

Like it or not, it's what it is. It's not like you really have a choice about it.

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[blue81to]

My question to you: Why even get a Blackberry if you don't want BIS? If you aren't worried about the security that BIS gives your messages coming/going to you then you should be looking/using a Droid or iPhone IMO.

I actually do plan on getting BIS. The point I was making is that if I didn't want BIS than there should be an option for people to use Blackberries without BIS if they don't plan on using any of the BIS services.

[belfastdispatcher]

Can you even buy a blackberry from any carrier without a data plan? I have a feeling you can't, unless if you pay full price for it, but then why would you pay so much for a smartphone to use it as a dumb phone.

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[NetworkGuy]

I actually do plan on getting BIS. The point I was making is that if I didn't want BIS than there should be an option for people to use Blackberries without BIS if they don't plan on using any of the BIS services.

It was stated either on either this thread or another one talking about the same thing that RIM is not going to change what they do for consumers. Their main demographics that they market to is the business user / corporations that wants/needs the security.

To make an OS that doesn't use BIS would take many man hours of programming time as a completely different OS would need to be made. This OS would still need to run the same apps that today's blackberries run. If you think about it, RIM just won't put the hours into something like that when most of their customers don't want it and it would be a major undertaking that would probably take several years.

[beebeeman]

It a poor design IMHO and a very good reason to chose a different smartphone platform.

Bye bye then.

O2 offers data plan on pre paid for just a fiver.

[belfastdispatcher]

Bye bye then.

O2 offers data plan on pre paid for just a fiver.

Pre paid BIS data plan from Orange/Vodafone/Tmobile is just �5 as well

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[beebeeman]

Not sure why people waste time on this thread as if it was the smallest chance of RIM changing their core design structure.... get a life, enjoy your berry

[HATEPOLICY]

Just replying to the topic...
"No BIS or BES plan Gmail, Facebook, Google maps errors. Bypass or alternative?"

Yes, you have a bypass or alternative for your 9000,
At least for Gmail, Gmaps, I have no idea about Facebook, but I see no reason why not.

Follow my post:
hxxp://forums.crackberry.com/f2/how-get-everything-working-out-rim-623260/
( I can not post links yet )

[ADGrant]

Bye bye then.

O2 offers data plan on pre paid for just a fiver.

I am in the US so thatvdoesn't help too much? When I visit the UK, I want to call back to the US. O2 is not the best option for that.

[belfastdispatcher]

I am in the US so thatvdoesn't help too much? When I visit the UK, I want to call back to the US. O2 is not the best option for that.

You want tmobile uma then, find a hotspot and call back to usa for free.

[wizzbang3]

Secure Socket Layer. And no, data is not data. Security matters greatly to MANY people. Even the President of the United States uses a BB because of how secure it is. A username and password alone is NOT secure. With BIS your data is encrypted, which makes it completely private. Many companies depend on this. You don't get it, fine. It doesn't mean you have to attack those that do.

Don't be ridiculous.
Do you think if you work for Coca Cola that you can ONLY dial in to the office for network access? If you work for Ford you can only use FORD (tm) internet to be "sure you're secure?"

No - that's why secure protocols exist, VPN's, encryption, etc. BIS and BES is not real security, it's security by obscurity. You can still perfectly maintain a secure connection without these plans.

You can try and defend them for many reasons, from a money perspective, they work for RIM, from the perspective of the Telcos - as someone on page one said, yes it used to subsidize excess usage (no longer really an issue) - but as a defense security, that's just not true - implying it's the only way to be secure is simply false

[wizzbang3]

Most consumers have their email accounts on services like gmail which offer no security. Very few consumers want the kind of security a BES Blackberry provides.

Quotes like this pretty much show your lack of knowledge on this entire topic.

[wizzbang3]

To make an OS that doesn't use BIS would take many man hours of programming time as a completely different OS would need to be made.

We're not asking for no BIS or BES, we're asking for our damned applications by THIRD PARTIES to not follow the utterly insane programming rules / suggestions from RIM regarding BIS and BES.

Why can Google Maps and Google Email App work on 3G data?
Why can Google Sync work on 3G data AND wifi?
Why can Snaptu work on 3G data or wifi?

Why does Facebook REQUIRE BES or BIS? - ugh lame (and google maps and email being 3G at minimum sucks too)

[T�nis]

Data stored on a BlackBerry handset, if proper encryption settings are in use, is most secure. Iphone and Android handsets don't even come close to providing the level of security that BlackBerry does.

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[wizzbang3]

I'm not talking about handset security, this thread has NOTHING to do with handset security, we're talking about NETWORK security. Stay on topic.

[T�nis]

I am, problem is I love the form factor and keyboard/phone buttons that a Bold provides.

This is like crying about android and iphone because they don't come with the option of having BIS.
"But I love iphone form factor!" Why not demand that apple change it's os to support BIS?
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[wizzbang3]

The thread has gone off topic - the primary concern is applications not using a network connection due to stupid, arbitrary rules - not handset stuff.

I'm fine with a Bold 9000 being a bold 9000, I'm happy for 'enterprise' mail to be BIS or BES - but I'd like my apps to damn well work over wifi, thanks to simple things like SSL, encryption, VPNs etc.

It's not rocket science, iphones, ipads, macs, android, pc's all manage to access facebook fine.

[belfastdispatcher]

From a business point of view why should Rim make things easy for anybody that A probably bought the handset second hand(no proffit for Rim) and B can't afford/not willing to pay for a BIS data plan(no profit for Rim)

Nokia, motorola, htc, samsung make phones with the same form factor.

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