[wizzbang3]

I have a BlackBerry bold 9000 with the latest v5 firmware and only a regular 3G DATA plan / package. This is regular, honest to goodness normal 3G data, I don't have a proprietary RIM / BES / BIS plan (and frankly, shouldn't have to for third party apps!)

This is probably a horrible sin on a blackberry forum but in my mind, TCP data and a connection to the internet, is surprisingly TCP data / connection to the internet. Forcing traffic through a particular protocol and ignoring wifi or regular 3g data is frankly ridiculous!

Anyhow, my rant aside, you've probably seen this problem before, it's mentioned here and across the web - such as the google forums.


I know the official Facebook application has the same problem, (error message is)
"You are currently on a service plan that does not support this application. If you want to use this application, please contact your service provider to upgrade your data plan"

but pleasantly surprisingly you can use an app like snaptu without the silly restriction.
Also the official twitter app works on the BB also - as does Google Contact and Calendar sync.

My exact error message from the official gmail app is
"This program requires a working data connection" "please check your signal strength"
I know this isn't an APN thing, I'm trying to just use plain old wifi.
Google maps produces the error
"This application requires a data connection, and some blackberry devices require reconfiguration to work properly"


I have heard of an application which tricks apps into thinking they are using the BES / BIS data plan, does that exist? or is there an older version of Google Gmail and Google maps to get around this? I find it frustrating and silly

[skfreak]

but in my mind, TCP data and a connection to the internet, is surprisingly TCP data / connection to the internet. Forcing traffic through a particular protocol and ignoring wifi or regular 3g data is frankly ridiculous!

I agree 100% - eh no, wait! 1.000.000% !
I haven't found a solution though, except constantly rebooting the phone. This solves the problem for a short while until the exception strikes back ;(
I've read about a solution with different Servicebooks from Anworm but some people reported that the browser does not work with WiFi then and apps that require APN (like Google's Apps) may or may not work.
So in the end it seems there is no solution.

And regarding the terrible sin you mentioned: Yes, it seems to be a sin. At least I have read it about 234.985 times
But still: I am on a prepaid plan. I pay for a data flat rate. I have WiFi.
Hence, why should I not be able to use e.G. Seesmic, SocialScope or G-Mail?

I can live with "you don't get premium features like e.G. the BBM or the official Twitter und Facebook app if you do not have a BES/BIS data plan".
For as long as everything else works. Android and Iphone are miles ahead, there. But I do love my BB so I don't want to change to a different phone.

[ste1164]

Rim use the plan because it goes through their servers which is more secure. The blackberry was originally intended for business users so needed to be secure for emails etc. No you can't trick it. Either get a plan or live without one or get a phone that doesnt need one.

[wizzbang3]

I agree 100% - eh no, wait! 1.000.000% !
I haven't found a solution though, except constantly rebooting the phone. This solves the problem for a short while until the exception strikes back ;(
I've read about a solution with different Servicebooks from Anworm but some people reported that the browser does not work with WiFi then and apps that require APN (like Google's Apps) may or may not work.
So in the end it seems there is no solution.

And regarding the terrible sin you mentioned: Yes, it seems to be a sin. At least I have read it about 234.985 times
But still: I am on a prepaid plan. I pay for a data flat rate. I have WiFi.
Hence, why should I not be able to use e.G. Seesmic, SocialScope or G-Mail?

I can live with "you don't get premium features like e.G. the BBM or the official Twitter und Facebook app if you do not have a BES/BIS data plan".
For as long as everything else works. Android and Iphone are miles ahead, there. But I do love my BB so I don't want to change to a different phone.

So glad you replied, I was warming up to have a giant fight about this with zealot BB fans.
The fact is - as I stated and you agreed, internet is goddamned internet, who cares where it comes from?!

I agree 100% that a BB with a proper BES / BIS account is needed for their mail service (although it's a crappy implimentation) but I see why it works that way - but some people DO use a BB just as a regular phone with a data plan. In Australia they aren't too common at all. I have data on my SIM - I have WIFI @ home and in the Office, I just want my gmail / twitter / facebook with me.

I've found LogicMail, I've got Snaptu, Twitter, Google Sync and Xenozu - so my facebook, twitter, gmail, google calendar / contact sync is all covered that being said it would be nice to use the 'proper' programs by the original authors. Also - Google maps, no go, and no known alternative.

We shouldn't have to hack files, install trickery just to use an app on a phone with the internet!
Anyhow - I installed Aerize "Wifix" and that did not work with a V5 firmware. So at this point I'm stuck.

What surprises me most is someone hasn't got the Gmail, Facebook and Google maps applications and pulled them apart and released 'fixed' versions!

Anyone else? -this problem is discussed all over the internet, surely Google know about it - I'm speculating they simply don't care because RIM force (?) them to do this for the sake of $ or security or some silly rule?

EDIT: and I read about the special servicebooks from Anworm a long long time ago - I think they are for only V4 firmware, not V5.
It's such a damned shame - because as a 'basic phone' the BlackBerry has great battery life, good speakerphone, strong build etc - as an 'internet phone' it pales in comparison to an iphone or Android - yet they hamper it even more with these dopey arbitrary rules.

[wizzbang3]

Hi All,

A quick apology from me, I should've made this clear but I was confused and frustrated.
Google actually DO allow you to use "regular data" with Gmail and Google maps but do NOT allow you to use WIFI for them.
In Australia on Telstra, if you manually set the APN to "telstra.internet" it does actually work for both gmail and google maps.

Facebook however is HARD coded for BIS / BES
Regardless, forcing "3G data or BIS only" is still stupid on googles behalf.
(Also why is the BlackBerry the only smartphone I know of, where you have to manually set the APN? My Android and Iphone just kind of 'know' what to do and it works)

Anyhow - facebook still needs to be shamed for the forced BIS / BES rubbish.

[skfreak]

Rim use the plan because it goes through their servers which is more secure. The blackberry was originally intended for business users so needed to be secure for emails etc. No you can't trick it. Either get a plan or live without one or get a phone that doesnt need one.

But the original intention is long gone. I mean: Why do I need games, Multimedia Support, Podcast and so on on a business phone?
More and more people use a BB because it is rocksolid and the damn keyboard rocks everything away!
I love my BB for everything it can and does.
But forcing applications to not get an internet connection because it can not be forced to be secure is stupid and unneccessary.

And regarding BES/BIS plan: I do not know of any provider that does offer a plan while you are on prepaid.

[wizzbang3]

I think I've started a revoloution.

[skfreak]

I think I've started a revoloution.

Nah, Blackberry needs to start a revolution.
I have been searching for this problem for a long while and there are a lot of threads in different boards from different people.
We are not the only ones with this problem

[wiggy1]

I have found several apps that don't work with the phone radio off, even. They require access to the celular network on initial startup (just after install) and then you can turn the radio off and they will work. Extremely frustrating when in an area that doesn't have service coverage, but does have WI-FI.

[wizzbang3]

It's pretty terrible in 2011 that we need to fiddle with options in menus to get data moving over the phone.
I guess I've got almost all the functionality out of my 9000 that I need, is there an old version of Google Maps which works over 3G and wifi? If we can't find another alternative.

[skfreak]

is there an old version of Google Maps which works over 3G and wifi?

That would not matter. Apps that work exclusively via WiFi will not work all the same.

As it seems (but I still haven't figured it out completely): Once you reboot the phone all apps will work via TCP, WAP, WiFi but the phone still tries to connect via APN to blackberry.net.
After a while it figures out that there is no reliable secure connection and therefore neither TCP not WiFi will work any longer.
Only the Browser does - but I never figured out why only the browser works but nothing else.

[Tiassa]

I'm actually willing to throw some of the blame for this on the Telcos. Back in the day Blackberries used more data than the average phone, so the upcharge for using a BB was kind of justified. With the proliferation of data gobbling phones that aren't blackberries the upcharge makes no sense. I know that the telcos have to pay RIM to use their servers, but one can make the case that the charge is offset by not having the phones use (part of) the carriers data network.

[T�nis]

Why are some smart phone users always crying about paying for BIS? I love BIS, and I don't mind paying for it. Really, it's no big deal. I'm glad RIM (together with the carriers) isn't allowing unsecure applications to run on BlackBerry's secure platform just so cheapos can run every dumbass entertainment application under the sun without letting moths escape from their wallets.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[skfreak]

Why are some smart phone users always crying about paying for BIS?

They are not. They are just using Android, Nokia, Iphone.
To rephrase this question: Why is only Blackberry insisting on BIS?

I love BIS, and I don't mind paying for it. Really, it's no big deal.

Okay, then could you let me know which provider offers BES/BIS on a prepaid plan? Thank you very much in advance!

I'm glad RIM (together with the carriers) isn't allowing unsecure applications to run on BlackBerry's secure platform just so cheapos can run every dumbass entertainment application under the sun without letting moths escape from their wallets.

I am a Cheapo and a Dumbass because I am willing to pay for apps but not BES / BIS? Could you explain your logic, if there is any logic aside from flames that is

[GTWalling]

I think TMobile will do BIS on prepaid. Everyone keeps calling it and error and a problem. It is neither. It is by design, just the way it works.

[wizzbang3]

They are not. They are just using Android, Nokia, Iphone.
To rephrase this question: Why is only Blackberry insisting on BIS?



Okay, then could you let me know which provider offers BES/BIS on a prepaid plan? Thank you very much in advance!



I am a Cheapo and a Dumbass because I am willing to pay for apps but not BES / BIS? Could you explain your logic, if there is any logic aside from flames that is

Thanks for replying to his troll, I was about to get all wound up and reply but you've covered it. Some people don't understand that a BlackBerry might be someones secondary phone and they don't want to fork out all this money for arbitrary rules.

Also what does SSL mean? What does a username and password mean? Security? ridiculous reason, data is data.

[LasseStorgaard]

Here's another question: do you need a BIS plan if you have a BES server? In currently in the process of setting up a BES Express with Google Apps, just for fun of course.

[ADGrant]

I think TMobile will do BIS on prepaid. Everyone keeps calling it and error and a problem. It is neither. It is by design, just the way it works.

It a poor design IMHO and a very good reason to chose a different smartphone platform.

[NetworkGuy]

Here's another question: do you need a BIS plan if you have a BES server? In currently in the process of setting up a BES Express with Google Apps, just for fun of course.

BESX will require a BIS plan to work correctly.

[mobibiz]

Hi friends,

I am afraid the discussion here is going on the wrong direction, when a person.. any person buys a BlackBerry he invests in a secure, reliable and dependable communication device, Which also acts as a smartphone. If you wish to play games surf, or use third party applications alone then there is no point in purchasing a BlackBerry. Use them same securely and reliably on a blackberry then it starts to make sense for every extra bit spent on the BIS plans. I have supported corporate Iphones and Androids over Exchange and I have seen the way they fail. BlackBerry was the only reliable secure solution for the corporate house I worked for, now if you want a phone rich on multimedia content, on social networking and other things and buy a BlackBerry you will be disappointed. Asking BlackBerry to make unsecured consumer toys... does not make sense, as there are already solutions available. But trust me when it comes to secure communications in the corporate environment nothing, absolutely nothing can beat a BlackBerry. Now, let's say you love your car, you Park it in the best possible place - your garage (pay extra, or could have rented out the place) service it (spend money) same way if you want security ( BlackBerry ) you pay for BIS

[Rootbrian]

There is no possible way to circumvent, either you've got BIS, or BES, or no data at all.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ADGrant]

Hi friends,

I am afraid the discussion here is going on the wrong direction, when a person.. any person buys a BlackBerry he invests in a secure, reliable and dependable communication device, Which also acts as a smartphone. If you wish to play games surf, or use third party applications alone then there is no point in purchasing a BlackBerry. Use them same securely and reliably on a blackberry then it starts to make sense for every extra bit spent on the BIS plans. I have supported corporate Iphones and Androids over Exchange and I have seen the way they fail. BlackBerry was the only reliable secure solution for the corporate house I worked for, now if you want a phone rich on multimedia content, on social networking and other things and buy a BlackBerry you will be disappointed. Asking BlackBerry to make unsecured consumer toys... does not make sense, as there are already solutions available. But trust me when it comes to secure communications in the corporate environment nothing, absolutely nothing can beat a BlackBerry. Now, let's say you love your car, you Park it in the best possible place - your garage (pay extra, or could have rented out the place) service it (spend money) same way if you want security ( BlackBerry ) you pay for BIS

So what you are saying is consumers shouldn't buy Blackberries?

[T�nis]

So what you are saying is consumers shouldn't buy Blackberries?

I'm a consumer and I would never buy apple or android. Just because I'm a consumer doesn't mean I like games and want "apps."

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[NetworkGuy]

So what you are saying is consumers shouldn't buy Blackberries?

No, what he is saying is that each platform has things it is good at and things it isn't good at. Most consumers want a smartphone that will let them play "Angry Birds" and they don't care anything about security. They just want to get their mail and text messages and data streams. Blackberry is not a solution for these consumers. The consumers or corporations who want security and the peace of mind that their data is secure and encrypted, then the Blackberry is the solution.

For most consumers.. Blackberry is not the smartphone they should be considering.

[T�nis]

For most consumers.. Blackberry is not the smartphone they should be considering.

Agreed. And THOSE consumers should just get something else and stop crying and demanding that RIM transforms BlackBerry to suit THEIR needs.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com