1. mchaywood83's Avatar
    I know there are a lot of discussions about different phone os(es), and it seems to me like the number one problem that everyone has with RIM is the lack of apps on the platform. However, I think most people tend to agree that the hardware is not really that lacking on Blackberry and the messaging/phone capabilities are excellent. RIM has recently acquired a cloud services company and I think it is safe to assume that something like iCloud is coming to the Blackberry platform soon. That being said, I think there has been a lot of positive news being reported on that RIM is starting to do some very smart things were the critics argue that they are lacking. RIM seems to be looking for apps in all the right places by targeting Android developers to port their apps, using a scaling format that will transfer between devices easily, and targeting universities where students can get their first shot at app development using he Blackberry platform. All in all, I think things are looking up for Blackberry. What do you think?
    jkomo001 likes this.
    03-20-12 10:33 PM
  2. mark-d's Avatar
    The app availability is poor.
    BIS email is poor and has evolved so little over time
    The hardware on my Torch (9800) is also poor in comparison to the HTC Desire (approx same age) and then iPhone 3GS (approx same age). Take screen resolutions for example, the Android and Apple devices are both way ahead of the Torch.

    There are positive things being said about BB10 but I fear that for me it will all be too little too late. When my contract is up for renewal rather than staying blindly loyal to Blackberry I'll be seriously considering a phone that can meet me needs right now rather than waiting for BB10 which may (or probably) may not actually meet my needs in the same way that my current BB phone doesn't
    03-21-12 07:31 AM
  3. anthogag's Avatar
    The app availability is poor.
    BIS email is poor and has evolved so little over time
    The hardware on my Torch (9800) is also poor in comparison to the HTC Desire (approx same age) and then iPhone 3GS (approx same age). Take screen resolutions for example, the Android and Apple devices are both way ahead of the Torch.

    There are positive things being said about BB10 but I fear that for me it will all be too little too late. When my contract is up for renewal rather than staying blindly loyal to Blackberry I'll be seriously considering a phone that can meet me needs right now rather than waiting for BB10 which may (or probably) may not actually meet my needs in the same way that my current BB phone doesn't


    Why can't you pay a penalty (fine) and cancel your contract early in the UK? You obviously want something else.

    I recently upgraded from the 9800 to the 9810 and the 9810 is much better. The phone is lag-free and quick, I have wireless hotspot, and web browsing is great. The 9810 is a 3G+ phone and I'm now on the 4G network.

    Web browsing on the playbook through bridge is also much faster.

    For me email has always been excellent.

    If you want to compare screens you should look at current phones. The screen on the 9810 is much better. The ppi on your 9800 is about 189, ppi for the 9810 is 254.

    ppi for iPhone 3GS is 163 (less than the 9800's 189)
    jkomo001 likes this.
    03-21-12 08:52 AM
  4. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    Why can't you pay a penalty (fine) and cancel your contract early in the UK? You obviously want something else.
    Not everyone can afford it. I don't know about the UK, but here in the States, some ETFs can run you $350 or more.
    03-21-12 09:09 AM
  5. mark-d's Avatar
    Why can't you pay a penalty (fine) and cancel your contract early in the UK? You obviously want something else.

    I recently upgraded from the 9800 to the 9810 and the 9810 is much better. The phone is lag-free and quick, I have wireless hotspot, and web browsing is great. The 9810 is a 3G+ phone and I'm now on the 4G network.

    Web browsing on the playbook through bridge is also much faster.

    For me email has always been excellent.

    If you want to compare screens you should look at current phones. The screen on the 9810 is much better. The ppi on your 9800 is about 189, ppi for the 9810 is 254.

    ppi for iPhone 3GS is 163 (less than the 9800's 189)
    To a degree you've agreed with my point.

    Your 9810 is a much newer phone that then HTC Desire which I am now also using with a PAYG SIM yet the specs aren't that much different.

    HTC Desire [released March 2010] 480 x 800 pixels, 3.7 inches (~252 ppi pixel density)
    Torch 9800 [released August 2010] 360 x 480 pixels, 3.2 inches (~188 ppi pixel density)
    Torch 9810 [released August 2011] 480 x 640 pixels, 3.2 inches (~250 ppi pixel density)

    All three specs taken from GSMArena.com - GSM phone reviews, news, opinions, votes, manuals and more...

    That's not a good comparison at all with both the BBs being newer than the Desire but neither yet reaching the same screen quality. Let's not even bother comparing a modern Android into that mix as the 2 year old has already been both of Blackberry's offerings since

    HTC has wireless hotspot - BB's very latest phone caught up approx 18 months later

    Even though the 9810 runs OS7 does it still have the app availability of Android or iPhone which is what this post was initially referring to? I'd guess not. Lots of apps not available at all or lots that are available are scaled down and lacking functionality in comparison to their other platform's versions.

    The app problem has seen a lot of people leave BB for other platforms and now that I've compared like for like (time of release wise) hardware I can also see that the hardware of BB hasn't evolved the same way it has for Apple or HTC.

    As other platforms now also offer push email that does proper two way sync way ahead of BIS it's difficult to imagine that the only problem facing BB is a lack of app availability.
    03-21-12 09:22 AM
  6. mchaywood83's Avatar
    The app availability is poor.
    BIS email is poor and has evolved so little over time
    The hardware on my Torch (9800) is also poor in comparison to the HTC Desire (approx same age) and then iPhone 3GS (approx same age). Take screen resolutions for example, the Android and Apple devices are both way ahead of the Torch.

    There are positive things being said about BB10 but I fear that for me it will all be too little too late. When my contract is up for renewal rather than staying blindly loyal to Blackberry I'll be seriously considering a phone that can meet me needs right now rather than waiting for BB10 which may (or probably) may not actually meet my needs in the same way that my current BB phone doesn't
    I totally understand what you are saying. I agree and I have wrestled with the decision to stay or leave myself in December. I had a Playbook and felt that it was not performing as it should even for the 300 price I paid given the lack of apps. Now that I look back on it, it did do a lot of things well, but I must say that my iPad 2 does them better. There are only a few areas where it does not excel over the Playbook (i.e. gestures). I do love the quick access on my Bold to shortcuts for apps that are built into the phone using keyboard shortcuts, but overall the apps are basic and just get by. I find that Facebook "can't connect to the server" as many times as it can.

    That being said, I do think that RIM has learned a valuable lesson here. They felt that apps were not the future and to begin with they may have been right. However, when Apple decided to use apps to reach consumers, I feel that business people saw what consumer apps were available and wanted them too. I know that a majority of people are not fortunate enough to pay full retail for a second device and do not want to carry two devices. Since that is the case, I think many people switched to Apple or Android and now RIM is behind the playing field.

    If this is the case, how do you catch up? The only way to do this is to realize that you need to fix the problem, which is lack of apps. If I were RIM the only chance I had at fixing the problems is to listen to developers' complaints and start implementing the desired ecosystems to make them happy and willing to develop apps. I believe that with QNX allowing developers to code their app in any language (say for example they make an Android App) but then allow them to convert the existing app to Blackberry, they get the best of both Platforms. This could be a happy partnership into the future. Only time will tell, so I guess it is good that I can't do anything until December.
    03-21-12 09:40 AM
  7. anthogag's Avatar
    You don't have to go to a website to calculate the ppi, just take the number (Ex. 480) and divide it by the length of the screen (not the diagonal) in inches...

    Like so many other posters in this forum you need to give examples. You think app selection sucks and I don't, it can always be better but it doesn't suck. My desktop computer is a mac and I have access to a larger app catalog and I don't use it that much...most of the apps are boring.

    Compare current android phone ppi to current BB phones. Ppi for the 9900 is higher at 287.
    Last edited by anthogag; 03-21-12 at 08:04 PM.
    03-21-12 09:48 AM
  8. anthogag's Avatar
    I totally understand what you are saying. I agree and I have wrestled with the decision to stay or leave myself in December. I had a Playbook and felt that it was not performing as it should even for the 300 price I paid given the lack of apps. Now that I look back on it, it did do a lot of things well, but I must say that my iPad 2 does them better. There are only a few areas where it does not excel over the Playbook (i.e. gestures). I do love the quick access on my Bold to shortcuts for apps that are built into the phone using keyboard shortcuts, but overall the apps are basic and just get by. I find that Facebook "can't connect to the server" as many times as it can.

    That being said, I do think that RIM has learned a valuable lesson here. They felt that apps were not the future and to begin with they may have been right. However, when Apple decided to use apps to reach consumers, I feel that business people saw what consumer apps were available and wanted them too. I know that a majority of people are not fortunate enough to pay full retail for a second device and do not want to carry two devices. Since that is the case, I think many people switched to Apple or Android and now RIM is behind the playing field.

    If this is the case, how do you catch up? The only way to do this is to realize that you need to fix the problem, which is lack of apps. If I were RIM the only chance I had at fixing the problems is to listen to developers' complaints and start implementing the desired ecosystems to make them happy and willing to develop apps. I believe that with QNX allowing developers to code their app in any language (say for example they make an Android App) but then allow them to convert the existing app to Blackberry, they get the best of both Platforms. This could be a happy partnership into the future. Only time will tell, so I guess it is good that I can't do anything until December.

    If you're RIM you don't catch-up, you make something better...and they are
    03-21-12 09:55 AM
  9. voltaire's Avatar
    I don't get the big deal regarding icloud. The way I understand it is you pay $27 per year to be able to access music, photos and videos on any idevice world wide. Fine if u have unlimited data and you are in your country of origin but is this really that useful if you are out of country and have to pay roaming charges?
    Dropbox free version works fine for me whether sharing a doc, pic internationally or small vid locally.
    03-21-12 01:16 PM
  10. anthogag's Avatar
    I don't get the big deal regarding icloud. The way I understand it is you pay $27 per year to be able to access music, photos and videos on any idevice world wide. Fine if u have unlimited data and you are in your country of origin but is this really that useful if you are out of country and have to pay roaming charges?
    Dropbox free version works fine for me whether sharing a doc, pic internationally or small vid locally.

    I contacted Dropbox. I mentioned BB users should have the option of saving pictures and other files from the menu...a simple "save to dropbox" and Ex. The picture saves to the picture folder in dropbox.

    They sent me a message stating they're working on it
    03-21-12 05:00 PM
  11. BoldPreza's Avatar
    I don't have a problem with app quality, but for my phone in particular there is very little that is available compared to the other phones. Even themes are hard to come by.
    03-21-12 05:43 PM
  12. mark-d's Avatar
    Compare current android phone ppi to current BB phones. Ppi for the 9900 is higher at 287.
    Current phones out

    Google Nexus 480 x 800 pixels, 4.0 inches (~233 ppi pixel density)
    BB 9810 480 x 640 pixels, 3.2 inches (~250 ppi pixel density)
    Phone 4S 640 x 960 pixels, 3.5 inches (~330 ppi pixel density)

    Based on the full touhscreen models the BB has the smallest screen by far in size and resolution but does have the 2nd best ppi

    Like so many other posters in this forum you need to give examples. You think app selection sucks and I don't, it can always be better but it doesn't suck.
    Examples:
    How many apps can you simply not get for BB that are readily available on iPhone or Android?
    Skype? Sky+? Teamviewer? Adobe Reader? Seesmic? Tweetdeck? Teamviewer? Wi-Fi analyser? DMX calculator?

    These are just apps that I've searched for but cannot get on my BB for example.

    Then look at some of the apps available on BB and compare them to their counterparts.

    Facebook is way short on functionality compared to Android or iPhone
    Hootsuite is way short of functionality compared to the iPhone version which does push notifications
    When Seesmic had a BB app it didn't share the functionality of it's other counterparts.

    For years I have stayed loyal to the BB platform but I refuse to look at things through blinkers. There are alternatives available to BB and I'm saying that while the lack of apps does prove, certainly for me, a massive issue there are also hardware differences between the platforms.

    I have lost count of the number of people I have recommended Blackberry phones to over the years but the simple truth is I no longer do.

    It seems that RIM's focus is developing BBM connected apps which may or may not appease some users. The fact is that I would rather RIM developed decent comparable apps to those available on other platforms, such as Facebook. They also need to get outsiders developing for BB again so the platform is comparable.

    The facts are that mobile tech has moved on rapidly. Average businesses no longer need to have BBs as all mobile platforms now do push email. If they need high security then BB would be the way to go. For consumers phones will be about fun as much as functionality and while the BB is still function it's lacking in some apps mean it's not as fun as other platforms are.

    I hope that's enough examples to illustrate my point.

    The problem as I see it is that RIM innovated but then others caught up and overtook and RIM just weren't quick enough to react and take back their leading position. App developers left the platform and the truth is it's a long way back.
    03-21-12 05:54 PM
  13. anthogag's Avatar
    Current phones out

    Google Nexus 480 x 800 pixels, 4.0 inches (~233 ppi pixel density)
    BB 9810 480 x 640 pixels, 3.2 inches (~250 ppi pixel density)
    Phone 4S 640 x 960 pixels, 3.5 inches (~330 ppi pixel density)

    Based on the full touhscreen models the BB has the smallest screen by far in size and resolution but does have the 2nd best ppi



    Examples:
    How many apps can you simply not get for BB that are readily available on iPhone or Android?
    Skype? Sky+? Teamviewer? Adobe Reader? Seesmic? Tweetdeck? Teamviewer? Wi-Fi analyser? DMX calculator?

    These are just apps that I've searched for but cannot get on my BB for example.

    Then look at some of the apps available on BB and compare them to their counterparts.

    Facebook is way short on functionality compared to Android or iPhone
    Hootsuite is way short of functionality compared to the iPhone version which does push notifications
    When Seesmic had a BB app it didn't share the functionality of it's other counterparts.

    For years I have stayed loyal to the BB platform but I refuse to look at things through blinkers. There are alternatives available to BB and I'm saying that while the lack of apps does prove, certainly for me, a massive issue there are also hardware differences between the platforms.

    I have lost count of the number of people I have recommended Blackberry phones to over the years but the simple truth is I no longer do.

    It seems that RIM's focus is developing BBM connected apps which may or may not appease some users. The fact is that I would rather RIM developed decent comparable apps to those available on other platforms, such as Facebook. They also need to get outsiders developing for BB again so the platform is comparable.

    The facts are that mobile tech has moved on rapidly. Average businesses no longer need to have BBs as all mobile platforms now do push email. If they need high security then BB would be the way to go. For consumers phones will be about fun as much as functionality and while the BB is still function it's lacking in some apps mean it's not as fun as other platforms are.

    I hope that's enough examples to illustrate my point.

    The problem as I see it is that RIM innovated but then others caught up and overtook and RIM just weren't quick enough to react and take back their leading position. App developers left the platform and the truth is it's a long way back.



    Google Nexus ppi is 233
    BB 9810 ppi is 253
    BB 9900 ppi is 287
    iPhone 4S ppi is 326

    And if you do a lot of typing the iPhone screen is smaller as the keyboard covers part of the screen. The 9810 is obviously a slider and the screen remains the same size

    Those apps you mention I don't use. BlackBerry should have those apps but App World still doesn't suck. I have 60 apps on my 9810
    03-21-12 07:06 PM
  14. mark-d's Avatar
    Google Nexus ppi is 233
    BB 9810 ppi is 253
    BB 9900 ppi is 287
    iPhone 4S ppi is 326

    And if you do a lot of typing the iPhone screen is smaller as the keyboard covers part of the screen. The 9810 is obviously a slider and the screen remains the same size

    Those apps you mention I don't use. BlackBerry should have those apps but App World still doesn't suck. I have 60 apps on my 9810
    To each their own but the lack of availability of those apps ands thw basic nature of some of the others are seriously hampering the enjoyment of my mobile and the usefulness of it. In my case that is FACT more than OPINION
    03-22-12 12:23 PM
  15. OniBerry's Avatar
    To each their own but the lack of availability of those apps ands thw basic nature of some of the others are seriously hampering the enjoyment of my mobile and the usefulness of it. In my case that is FACT more than OPINION

    Dump it and move on. You can't argue that App World is crap, cause it may be to you, but others have found what they want, or are patient. The subject is open to interpretation, and your experiences with it, may not be the same as mine.

    Facts? If what you have doesn't do what you need/want, then find something that does. What else can anyone say?
    03-22-12 12:31 PM
  16. ubizmo's Avatar
    I contacted Dropbox. I mentioned BB users should have the option of saving pictures and other files from the menu...a simple "save to dropbox" and Ex. The picture saves to the picture folder in dropbox.

    They sent me a message stating they're working on it
    The FileScout app gives you this from its menu. Not quite the same as having it on the system menu, I know, but you can assign FileScout to the 'F' hotkey and use it for file operations anyway (It's more versatile than the native file manager), and then you have that ability to send files to or receive them from DropBox.
    03-22-12 02:20 PM
  17. anthogag's Avatar
    The FileScout app gives you this from its menu. Not quite the same as having it on the system menu, I know, but you can assign FileScout to the 'F' hotkey and use it for file operations anyway (It's more versatile than the native file manager), and then you have that ability to send files to or receive them from DropBox.

    It has to be in the system menu. This would be very close to a proper cloud service as the user could easily upload any file to Dropbox and all your other devices would have access to it

    Other apps can put things in the system menu. It seems strange Dropbox didn't do this a long time ago

    I hope we see this in an upgrade soon

    I downloaded FileScout, it has a pretty good upload function to Dropbox. It seems to be a really good file manager.
    Last edited by anthogag; 03-23-12 at 11:00 AM.
    03-22-12 04:43 PM
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