04-08-10 12:11 PM
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  1. TheSultan's Avatar
    Hey Everyone,
    I'm a Windows guy so I'm used to tons of free software and downloadable applications on torrent sites and stuff.
    Just wondering why there is so little software for free for the BBs. Any ideas?
    05-31-08 11:40 AM
  2. mr.jcarter's Avatar
    Hey I feel your pain man, I come from a long line of windows devices too. I believe the lack of "free" softawre (torrents) is due to the fact that to register apps you need your BB pin number which is unique for every individual.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-31-08 11:59 AM
  3. TheSultan's Avatar
    That makes sense, and I wondered if that was the case. $70 to be able to read MS Docs and Excel documents is a tough pill to swallow!
    05-31-08 12:02 PM
  4. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    Hey Everyone,
    I'm a Windows guy so I'm used to tons of free software and downloadable applications on torrent sites and stuff.
    Free software from torrent sites?? Are you confusing "free" with "pirated"??


    Just wondering why there is so little software for free for the BBs. Any ideas?
    Top 10 Reasons there is "so little free software" for Blackberries:

    10. You are confusing "free" with "stolen".

    Thankfully, RIM has good security, requiring developers to purchase code signing certificates to do anything really useful with the RIM API. And, due to this pirates cannot simply patch the source code and post it on torrent sites. This means that people developing for a living, get paid, and the rest of us don't have to pay higher prices.

    9. You have not looked very hard.

    There is a lot of free software for the Blackberry, although admittedly "a lot" is a bit subjective. Have you tried Google? Posting a request for links to free software? Search the 3rd party forums for the many posts on free software?

    8. You are expecting way to much for free

    Maybe you are thinking that you should be able to download not only very basic applications for free, but very complex ones that took a team months to develop after years of training. Good luck with that.

    7. You are used to getting things for free

    You are not Republican, enough said. =)

    6. You are confused about the meaning of "free" in "free market"

    Best to re-take that HS government class and basic economics for the big picture.

    5. You do not spend enough time on Crackberry.com

    But then again, is it EVER possible to spend enough time on here?

    4. You cannot afford to own a Blackberry

    Your last phone was pre-paid, and people look at you funny when you pay with food stamps while talking on your new BOLD.

    3. Capitalism sucks

    You actually have to pay for stuff, and earn a living.

    2. Programmers expect to actuallly get paid (how dare they!)

    Programmers for some unknown reason think they deserve to be paid after going to school for several years and getting a degree, and working for months on the latest cool thing. I mean, how dare they when they can come in our store and get free stuff!

    1. You haven't written more free applications!

    When are you releasing them?


    WARNING: The above is humor, something that some may find offensive. If you were offended, get some therapy.
    05-31-08 12:27 PM
  5. sunkast's Avatar
    That's great Patrick. A couple of other reasons are that RIM expects you to purchase a trusted certificate license for apps. One of the big selling points of a BB is it's security. Now if anyone and every could create an app, how do you know you can trust the app? That the app will actually work and not destabilize the device...
    05-31-08 12:54 PM
  6. Garz's Avatar
    Very true Patrick... Very true!
    05-31-08 01:05 PM
  7. danpass's Avatar
    That makes sense, and I wondered if that was the case. $70 to be able to read MS Docs and Excel documents is a tough pill to swallow!

    I've heard this before, maybe its ATT, but I have no problems reading WORD and EXCEL docs (as well as PDFs)

    I have no additional apps beyond whatever is built into OS 422170


    .
    05-31-08 01:08 PM
  8. rpalumbo's Avatar
    Patrick,

    LMAO
    05-31-08 01:10 PM
  9. gregski's Avatar
    I can relate to the OP. I came from a long line of Windows Mobile devices before I saw the light. I asked the same question, albeit on another forum , when I got my BB. Not that I pirated programs, but there is a ton of freeware for WM out there. What I came to find out was that I simply didn't need any freeware....the BlackBerry just works! I had to add tons of programs to make my WM do what BB already does. And a BB does it without having to be rebooted 10 times a day.
    05-31-08 03:15 PM
  10. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    gregski: cool avitar.... what is that?
    05-31-08 03:18 PM
  11. Duvi's Avatar
    4. You cannot afford to own a Blackberry

    Your last phone was pre-paid, and people look at you funny when you pay with food stamps while talking on your new BOLD.
    Wow, that's funny. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
    05-31-08 03:33 PM
  12. mariadee's Avatar
    Getjar.com
    Download the "jad" files ota
    That's a lot of software that jus happens to work on bbs

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-31-08 04:13 PM
  13. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Free software from torrent sites?? Are you confusing "free" with "pirated"??
    Having been in the Pocket PC and Palm world, it seems you might not understand just how good free and paid software is on platforms other than the Blackberry. To answer your responses... with humor of course.

    10. You are confusing "free" with "stolen".
    On the Palm OS there is tons of free little tidbits that developers like to dump into the community, e.g. currency converters, measurement converters, simple stopwatch and countdown timers, etc. On a Blackberry you've got to pay $10 for a POS with an awkward, ugly interface. Heck - it's $20 to download the free US Constitution to read on the Blackberry, LOL!!!


    Thankfully, RIM has good security, requiring developers to purchase code signing certificates to do anything really useful with the RIM API. And, due to this pirates cannot simply patch the source code and post it on torrent sites. This means that people developing for a living, get paid, and the rest of us don't have to pay higher prices.

    And this means that simple efforts require the owners of Blackberries to be punished into paying serious dollars for just a small application. It also means that when you get a replacement device, you want to kill yourself after all the teeth pulling required to update every piece of software that requires the manufacturer to generate their new pins. Oh boy... I've already suffered through this once and also with Handango.


    9. You have not looked very hard.

    I have. Even the paid stuff ain't pretty to look at - take Pocket Day, one of the most useful apps I paid $40 for. To even compare its aesthetics that with any Today screen of Pocket PC, Palm OS or Symbian is downright hysterical.

    8. You are expecting way to much for free
    See above.

    7. You are used to getting things for free
    Yes, we are and many people are happy to share. It's too bad that RIM hasn't figured this out and that many Blackberry Fanatics are in denial.

    6. You are confused about the meaning of "free" in "free market"
    Best to re-take that HS government class and basic economics for the big picture.

    This is the part where words like "denial" come into play...

    5. You do not spend enough time on Crackberry.com
    THIS may be true. It is a fun place. But to call it like it is, most BB apps suck and cost way more than on other platforms. Some exceptions are JiveTalk - a damn awesome chat client, to name one of a few where real love, time and polish went into a BB app.

    4. You cannot afford to own a Blackberry.
    Your last phone was pre-paid, and people look at you funny when you pay with food stamps while talking on your new BOLD.

    Heck, after owning my Blackberry I've decided that maybe I'll go without food in order to save on the application$. The Bold ain't here yet. Heck, the sad fact is that while Pocket PC, Palm OS and Symbian have been simply dragging and dropping Office docs onto their SD cards for YEARS, Blackberry users have had to pay "service" fees to ASPs for the same thing, e.g. Doc Hawk, etc. Even stuff like "ToDo Matrix" doesn't have a desktop app if I recall correctly and uses a web "service" to do the same. So the only thing I'm getting on my BOLD is the same old ****aake mushrooms with bad graphics and megaclick interface with an annual service fee.

    3. Capitalism sucks. You actually have to pay for stuff, and earn a living
    Didn't know that.

    2. Programmers expect to actuallly get paid (how dare they!) Programmers for some unknown reason think they deserve to be paid after going to school for several years and getting a degree, and working for months on the latest cool thing. I mean, how dare they when they can come in our store and get free stuff!
    Sure they do. But on a Blackberry I've got to pay THREE TIMES as much for the same software in an uglier interface. I've used all three and anyone who says different is in denial. As you put it above, Blackberry requires payment for application development, testing, etc. making simple apps cost a lot of money. Are they better? I still can't find a bloody ToDo application with a Desktop client that is easy to use and requires a minimum of clicks. It took Dataviz years to port over Documents To Go to BB and it STILL isn't here yet. Now with the iPhone and Pocket PC coming out with their own stuff, few may care about the BB if they realize it costs 3 times as much to do the same thing - in an ugly interface.

    1. You haven't written more free applications!
    I would expect I'm working too many jobs in order to afford the ones I already have!

    In all seriousness, RIM has to decide whether it's a "secure corporate device" or an "open consumer device" or offer an OS that clearly delineates the different needs of each camp. Being stuck in the middle it is doing a mediocre job of both. I'm only using my Blackberry again because my Palm was involved in a little accident and I'm going to switch services and upgrade my phone shortly. While I'd love to stick with Blackberry, they've got to do something in order to make it far more usable than just good email and induce the programming community to develop for the platform. No more annual service fees for basic apps that shouldn't need one (e.g. reading native docs), needs a real launcher that can separate apps into different buckets/menus, native document viewing for the most popular types, a media player that plays the most popular types, moving away from reliance on a server, to name a few. Let's hope RIM gets some of this done before 2009.
    Last edited by slinky; 05-31-08 at 07:32 PM.
    05-31-08 07:28 PM
  14. TheSultan's Avatar
    Yeah I'll try not to be offended. Humor aside, that was pretty harsh dontcha think? This is how Saturday Night Live came up with the "He's Nick, Your Company's Computer Guy" skit

    Do a google search for "free blackberry software" and you'll see that a few things come up. Then do a search for "free palm software" and you'll see the difference. I would do the search and post the results here, but I trust that you are better at searching than I am (that's humor of course!)

    Appreciate the support Slinky!
    05-31-08 07:54 PM
  15. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Getjar.com
    Download the "jad" files ota
    That's a lot of software that jus happens to work on bbs

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    There is also www.mobbilerated.com ( Free Mobile Phone Games ) from your BB Browser for a good amount of games.
    05-31-08 08:01 PM
  16. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    Having been in the Pocket PC and Palm world, it seems you might not understand just how good free and paid software is on platforms other than the Blackberry. To answer your responses... with humor of course.

    On the Palm OS there is tons of free little tidbits that developers like to dump into the community, e.g. currency converters, measurement converters, simple stopwatch and countdown timers, etc. On a Blackberry you've got to pay $10 for a POS with an awkward, ugly interface. Heck - it's $20 to download the free US Constitution to read on the Blackberry, LOL!!!
    Actually, being a software developer I am very familiar with a variety of platforms. In fact, it is that knowledge that lead to changing our focus to Blackberry development.

    The above confirms to me that you haven't looked at all, because there are, in fact, free applications for the above applications (and much more) available for Blackberry. The one exception possibly is "POS", whatever that is, I'm not sure, but again I encourage you to look, post, and google. I know of several hundred applications that are available free.

    Love the idea of the US Constitution, I have free printed copies from the Heritage Foundation. You can easily read this for free on the Blackberry, but again you have to put forth some effort, ie. ask on the forums or do some googling. For this, I'd recommend Mobipocket, again a free application.


    And this means that simple efforts require the owners of Blackberries to be punished into paying serious dollars for just a small application. It also means that when you get a replacement device, you want to kill yourself after all the teeth pulling required to update every piece of software that requires the manufacturer to generate their new pins. Oh boy... I've already suffered through this once and also with Handango.
    Simple efforts?? Are you refering to programming a Blackberry? If you are, and it is so simple, please be our guest and write a few of these "simple" applications. Interestingly, I think if you do a cost analysis of your time vs. the time it would take you to develop, or the cost to you to pay someone to develop it for you, you'll find that most apps are a real value. If they aren't, then you and everyone else is free to speak with their wallet and not purchase them as well as use/create better alternatives. That is the essense of the invisble hand of free markets, is it not?

    As far as PINs go, I understand and agree with you, except here again there is a solution. First, professional applications should allow a legit user to switch their PIN online 24/7 with proper authentication, thus allowing you to transfer your license at will. Second, there is a payware application (I forget the name at the moment, but it's posted here on crackberry.com) that allows you to setup your applications as you purchase them for such updates in the event of an equipment failure. Now, if your time is so valuable to you, then clearly it is not a cost, but a savings to pay these guys who developed it so that you might then save all that time, recoup your costs, and save a bit in the bargain. On the other hand, if your time would not be better spent more productively, and it wouldn't save you money, you can choose to just do it manually. Again, free market. If it upsets you that you have to pay someone else, then don't complain, go make one yourself. I mean what legitimate grip do you have that you have to pay for it, unless you are a socialist or communist and think that anytime you don't have something it's not fair. See what I mean? I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to show you the lack of logic in the "it should be free" (why?) argument.


    I have. Even the paid stuff ain't pretty to look at - take Pocket Day, one of the most useful apps I paid $40 for. To even compare its aesthetics that with any Today screen of Pocket PC, Palm OS or Symbian is downright hysterical.
    If you have paid for stuff you don't feel is worth it (pretty?), and are not happy with your choice, you have only yourself to blame, not the market or seller. If you feel another device is better for you, then by all means go use it. In other words, why the heck do you still have a Blackberry if it sucks so bad for you? I guess I'm just curious how if the other devices you own are so great you aren't just using them. It seems your actions speak louder than your words, and are not congruent.

    And see above for not looking enough for free stuff.


    Yes, we are and many people are happy to share. It's too bad that RIM hasn't figured this out and that many Blackberry Fanatics are in denial.
    RIM and others are in denial about what? It is you I believe who is in denial. If you do not wish to pay for software, no one is holding a gun to your head. Moreover, it's a free country (here in the US anyway), and you are free to go ahead and spend as much money and resources as you wish to put all of us payware developers to shame and release as many freeware apps as you wish. Personally, I can't wait till the flood of your awesome applications hit the market.



    THIS may be true. It is a fun place. But to call it like it is, most BB apps suck and cost way more than on other platforms. Some exceptions are JiveTalk - a damn awesome chat client, to name one of a few where real love, time and polish went into a BB app.
    So, go back to your palm, or don't buy them. Personally, I think there are a few great applications out there... but then I have reviewed personally several hundred. How many have you downloaded, installed, and used?


    Heck, after owning my Blackberry I've decided that maybe I'll go without food in order to save on the application$. The Bold ain't here yet. Heck, the sad fact is that while Pocket PC, Palm OS and Symbian have been simply dragging and dropping Office docs onto their SD cards for YEARS, Blackberry users have had to pay "service" fees to ASPs for the same thing, e.g. Doc Hawk, etc.
    Here again, your lack of knowledge about what is available is limiting you. I can drag and drop docs onto my SD card, and view them just fine, all for free too.


    Even stuff like "ToDo Matrix" doesn't have a desktop app if I recall correctly and uses a web "service" to do the same.
    When you say "to do the same thing", you forget to mention what that is, but I'm assuming you mean allow you to manage your todo lists on your desktop vs. online on the server.

    The purpose of the online application is not just to allow you to use it with a keyboard, but to allow you to have a 24/7 backup of mission critical data that is professionally maintained, backed up, and fault tolerant.

    In other words, it's a business application. You are paying them a recurring fee for that service, something a desktop application could not replicate (unless you want to put in your own backup net connections, backup servers, and IT staff).

    If you are not using your BB for business, and don't want to pay for business level services, there are a couple of low cost or even free todo lists available, just ask people. Just becaue an expensive business application is not "affordable" or "cost effective" for a non-business user does not make Blackberries suck.


    So the only thing I'm getting on my BOLD is the same old ****aake mushrooms with bad graphics and megaclick interface with an annual service fee.
    If you don't need the annual service, don't get it. You'll know you "need" it, when it's cost is worth the benefit and reduced risk.


    Sure they do. But on a Blackberry I've got to pay THREE TIMES as much for the same software in an uglier interface. I've used all three and anyone who says different is in denial.
    If you like the others better, go use them! We aren't in denial, we just don't agree with you.


    As you put it above, Blackberry requires payment for application development, testing, etc. making simple apps cost a lot of money. Are they better?
    There are some awesome apps, and some junk. Caveat Emptor.


    I still can't find a bloody ToDo application with a Desktop client that is easy to use and requires a minimum of clicks.
    See above, try asking and reading the crackberry blog. A great one was just reviewed, and yet you still don't know about it!


    I would expect I'm working too many jobs in order to afford the ones I already have!
    I've felt like this some days.


    In all seriousness, RIM has to decide whether it's a "secure corporate device" or an "open consumer device" or offer an OS that clearly delineates the different needs of each camp. Being stuck in the middle it is doing a mediocre job of both. I'm only using my Blackberry again because my Palm was involved in a little accident and I'm going to switch services and upgrade my phone shortly. While I'd love to stick with Blackberry, they've got to do something in order to make it far more usable than just good email and induce the programming community to develop for the platform.
    You have somewhat of a point here, but I think RIM knows right where they are at, which is why their stock is soaring. Perhaps you are a consumer trying to use a business device, and have the wrong device for your needs.

    To be honest, one thing I do think is holding things back a bit is RIM is less committed to helping their developers than say Microsoft. Their development tools make me feel like I'm back in the dark ages! But, those will likely get better with time.

    Java has issues if you ask me, and I'd really like to eventually see a universal VM, which would allow you to compile from C++, C#, Java, whatever. But, that is only a dream.
    05-31-08 08:15 PM
  17. TheSultan's Avatar
    "pardon me, I believe you have my stapler, that's, my, stapler, I'd like it back please"
    05-31-08 08:21 PM
  18. eZainny's Avatar
    Just to answer some of the common questions I've seen come up:

    1) Why no free apps? Developing for the BlackBerry is hard compared to WinMo, Symbian, etc and so in order to write an application that doesn't suck you've got to heavily invest yourself for a long time. It's not a fun process. I've been writing about this forever on my site for BlackBerry developers: BlackBerry Developer SideShow

    2) To address the other issue I've seen raised regarding the cost of applications, the problem is ultimately market size. Developers price their apps. to make a return on their investment. You want prices to fall, get your friends interested in installing third-party applications. The more people willing to buy BlackBerry software the cheaper we will be able to price it and still make a living. Help us help you.

    Anybody that thinks BlackBerry developers are living the "good life" is deluded. Most companies, even the big ones that look professional on the front-end, are tiny one or two man operations. And often, they're struggling. I know, because I talk to a lot of them. In fact, I would say that 99% of companies that develop software for the BlackBerry have less than 3 employees. And take this bit on information from me, the guy running BBSmart, a company that has two of the top 5 selling applications here on CrackBerry, and over on Handango too.

    Until BlackBerry software becomes easier to develop and until more people are willing to buy BlackBerry software, nothing is going to change.

    Why do you think there are so few companies developing BlackBerry software? Why do you think none of the big companies take this market seriously? If this market had any potential there would be developers all over the place scrambling to get in. But there isn't, because the market just is not there. That's a free market for you.

    For the majority of developers thinking about starting a BlackBerry software company, I would actually honestly recommend they go work at the local McDonald's instead. Financially, they'll probably be better off.

    With Google Android and the Apple iPhone providing on-device App. Stores, developers are getting direct help from the parent company with marketing their application and so the potential is there to reach a wider audience. And developing for these platforms is easy. Once these devices hit the market, there is going to be a plethora of free & cheap software available for them. And I have no doubt many of the current BlackBerry developers will run away then as well, to greener pastures.
    06-01-08 02:40 AM
  19. BBA's Avatar
    Well written, eZainny!
    And it's soo true!
    06-01-08 02:51 AM
  20. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    Yes, well said eZainny.

    It's the same reason toilets are so expensive on the ISS..... market size.

    The consumer market is much smaller and softer than the enterprise market with these devices, but that will likely change in the near future from the looks of things.
    06-01-08 03:20 AM
  21. danpass's Avatar
    On a sidenote patrick....... where can I find these apps that access docs/pdf/etc off the sd card?

    So far the only way I can do such a thing is thru the email program and that is only to add it as an attachment.
    06-01-08 08:00 AM
  22. TheSultan's Avatar
    eZainny, thank you for you genuine and helpful post. I appreciate the straightforward nature of your explanations. In fact, it makes me want to buy your applications
    Unfortunately, this doesn't excite me about the future of the phone I just bought!
    I do believe though that Blackberry is going the same direction as Mac's and will begin to see a large market share in the consumer industry, rather than their primary market previously, the commercial sector. I think BB's development of a flip phone speaks to this.
    Hopefully those of us that got in early will appreciate the development of new ideas and see how this plays out by BB appreciating their customers
    06-01-08 08:15 AM
  23. TheSultan's Avatar
    By the way, while I'm waiting for new applications. I've done some searching for blackberry freeware and haven't found much, surprisingly, that was the catalyst for starting this thread.
    Patrick, it would be great if you could throw some links into this thread (yes I know there are other threads already, I've found them), it would be neat to see them alongside the other things that have been said here.
    06-01-08 08:17 AM
  24. slinky#CB's Avatar
    The above confirms to me that you haven't looked at all, because there are, in fact, free applications for the above applications (and much more) available for Blackberry. The one exception possibly is "POS", whatever that is, I'm not sure, but again I encourage you to look, post, and google. I know of several hundred applications that are available free.
    I didn't say they weren't. This confirms you didn't fully read or appreciate what I said. I just said that most were really not useful or worth the download, hence you can't find the application to which I refered, LOL. The others are front ends for a service and aren't "free" in the sense the author posted.

    Love the idea of the US Constitution, I have free printed copies from the Heritage Foundation. You can easily read this for free on the Blackberry, but again you have to put forth some effort, ie. ask on the forums or do some googling. For this, I'd recommend Mobipocket, again a free application.
    Not the point. It's such a pain to do doc reading on the Blackberry that there is a market for this. I also didn't like Mobipocket because it stayed active all the time. Fact is that reading Office docs or PDFs or any ebook is either not really possible or a big PITA on the Blackberry. I read ebooks all the time on other platforms - native. And Repligo on BB is an annual service fee!

    Simple efforts?? Are you refering to programming a Blackberry? If you are, and it is so simple, please be our guest and write a few of these "simple" applications. Interestingly, I think if you do a cost analysis of your time vs. the time it would take you to develop, or the cost to you to pay someone to develop it for you...<snipped>
    I have developed and hire developers. My whole point is that there is nothing easy on a Blackberry. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the whole lecture on economics. Now here is a simple formula for you. If RIM has made it a PITA to program, then all the consumers will pay the needless cost since other platforms have solved this problem. They will turn to other platforms. Many developers won't develop for the BB because it will cost too much to do so - except for corporate applications which is why you don't really see that many good consumer based apps, even for small businesses.

    If you have paid for stuff you don't feel is worth it (pretty?), and are not happy with your choice, you have only yourself to blame, not the market or seller.
    WRONG. You assume everyone else is not that bright. Fact is there are virtually NO OR EXTREMELY FEW ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVES for Blackberry software. There is a market leader and then clearly inferior competitors. 6 months ago it was even worse. I've done the homework and spent hours - take for example Pocket Day. There really wasn't a competitor. It looks like garbage but is functional so I kept it. Now there is some other eye candy that is supposedly not that good and mostly superficial. Palm and PPC have had just a simple customizable Today screen options for years. Building a theme on 8830 was incredibly difficult, at best.

    If you feel another device is better for you, then by all means go use it. In other words, why the heck do you still have a Blackberry if it sucks so bad for you? I guess I'm just curious how if the other devices you own are so great you aren't just using them. It seems your actions speak louder than your words, and are not congruent.
    I was using another phone until it was broken and couldn't be replaced easily. I pulled out my old 8830 to use as an alternative and found that some things had changed but I still couldn't get a good To Do list with a desktop client. No offense to the good folks who put out REX Desktop but that's a web SERVICE you need to pay for in addition to a BB app that is OK for a BB but still an eyesore and in need of some improved UI mechanisms that will eventually come. There is no alternative with any kind of desktop client. I use Pocket Lists because it's the best of the other super crappy ToDo list managers.

    But don't worry. I'll be likely getting a new phone and am waiting for the next generations to come out shortly since strategically it makes sense and to wallow with the BB. If 4.5 comes out I may be able to DOWNLOAD ATTACHMENTS IN EMAIL (what a novel concept!!!) and perhaps use the phone with the basic features everyone else has had for years. I only hope it comes out soon but on Verizon, it could be 2010 with their alacrity.

    RIM and others are in denial about what? It is you I believe who is in denial. If you do not wish to pay for software, no one is holding a gun to your head. Moreover, it's a free country (here in the US anyway), and you are free to go ahead and spend as much money and resources as you wish to put all of us payware developers to shame and release as many freeware apps as you wish. Personally, I can't wait till the flood of your awesome applications hit the market.
    Who is telling you that the US is an aristocracy? Who is saying programmers shouldn't get paid? The point which is evading your programmer's IQ is that if RIM makes it much more difficult to provide applications, people will prefer to use other operating systems because the cost outweighs the benefits.

    So, go back to your palm, or don't buy them. Personally, I think there are a few great applications out there... but then I have reviewed personally several hundred. How many have you downloaded, installed, and used?
    I've spent roughly $500 on applications, carefully chosen. I've downloaded and evaluated at least 100 of them on BB alone. With my experience in the mobile industry, I know at least something of what I'm talking about.

    Here again, your lack of knowledge about what is available is limiting you. I can drag and drop docs onto my SD card, and view them just fine, all for free too.
    Yes, I must be the stupido who gets the error messages telling me that I can't open native docs and must use converters on the BB. I must be the stupido who can't use most common video formats with a media player. (And the free one always chokes on my MP3 folder... so much for the free apps, lol. ) And maybe I missed the part about download attachments? Well since you profess to know so much about other platforms, you'd know that the ability to drag, drop and use is beyond superior to the BB. It's finally being somewhat addressed with OS version 4.5.

    When you say "to do the same thing", you forget to mention what that is, but I'm assuming you mean allow you to manage your todo lists on your desktop vs. online on the server. The purpose of the online application is not just to allow you to use it with a keyboard, but to allow you to have a 24/7 backup of mission critical data that is professionally maintained, backed up, and fault tolerant. In other words, it's a business application. You are paying them a recurring fee for that service, something a desktop application could not replicate (unless you want to put in your own backup net connections, backup servers, and IT staff).
    Oh... I didn't understand. But with all those elegant business words like "mission critical" I do now. In other words the desktop applications we use and whose data is backed up regularly are inadequate and inferior. We should invest in yet another ASP with an annual fee for things most do NOT need. Again, I may know a little something about how large corporations work and what consumers need - or what common sense tells me is a bunch of hogwash.

    If you are not using your BB for business, and don't want to pay for business level services, there are a couple of low cost or even free todo lists available, just ask people. Just becaue an expensive business application is not "affordable" or "cost effective" for a non-business user does not make Blackberries suck.
    YES IT DOES. It means that BB cannot address a consumer market adequately and is now (a) opening up a platform that business may not want opened, and (b) not doing enough to make consumers happy to compete with other business and consumer based operating systems.

    If you don't need the annual service, don't get it. You'll know you "need" it, when it's cost is worth the benefit and reduced risk.
    Spoken like a true con$ultant. If you don't have a bulletproof web-based backup, you don't have anything!!! Yep, if you don't have more private data flying around with third parties, you don't have security! That is why there isn't a simple desktop client for a ToDo list on a BB...

    You have somewhat of a point here, but I think RIM knows right where they are at, which is why their stock is soaring. Perhaps you are a consumer trying to use a business device, and have the wrong device for your needs. To be honest, one thing I do think is holding things back a bit is RIM is less committed to helping their developers than say Microsoft. Their development tools make me feel like I'm back in the dark ages! But, those will likely get better with time. Java has issues if you ask me, and I'd really like to eventually see a universal VM, which would allow you to compile from C++, C#, Java, whatever. But, that is only a dream.
    I'm not sure where the problem is. It might be that RIM is having a serious challenge in trying to adapt its own legacy systems. But the point is that RIM itself is trying to consumerize the device or maybe you're so stuck in software you don't even look at hardware. See that little camera on the very popular curve? Think that corporations want them? With Apple, PPC and Symbian moving itself onto better hardware and push email, Blackberry has serious competition. The stock price today has no bearing on where BB really is or where it may be as competition in the mobile space heats up.
    Last edited by slinky; 06-01-08 at 08:34 AM.
    06-01-08 08:27 AM
  25. eZainny's Avatar
    eZainny, thank you for you genuine and helpful post. I appreciate the straightforward nature of your explanations. In fact, it makes me want to buy your applications
    Unfortunately, this doesn't excite me about the future of the phone I just bought!
    I do believe though that Blackberry is going the same direction as Mac's and will begin to see a large market share in the consumer industry, rather than their primary market previously, the commercial sector. I think BB's development of a flip phone speaks to this.
    Hopefully those of us that got in early will appreciate the development of new ideas and see how this plays out by BB appreciating their customers

    No problem.

    Personally, I agree it's a little bit depressing too. Right now we've got quite a few applications coming up. Some will be ready for market in as little as two weeks and there has been a big battle raging internally here on what to set the prices...It's tough, even for guys like us who are more well known than most.

    I agree that the consumer side of the BlackBerry userbase is growing which is good news for developers! The more users out there willing to install "software on their phone" (still a concept foreign for many) the bigger our potential market is. RIM could really play a big role here to help developers with distribution by including an App Store on device or integrated in to the Desktop Manager. Not only will that help new users find and install software, it will help even seasoned BB users find out about apps. they probably didn't know existed (and would want).

    CrackBerry does a good job too. Kevin goes out of his way to try and promote developers, review our software, etc. If you read this Kev, kudos to you too!

    But developers don't hold a lot of sway with RIM unfortunately, so the best thing is for users (the people with the buying power) to pressure RIM as well. Email them to let them know the lack of third-party applications for the BlackBerry impacted your purchasing decision.

    DevBerry, the site I run, has been my one man personal crusade to get RIM to take developers seriously Probably hasn't done that much overall, but I figure one voice is better than none.
    06-01-08 08:50 AM
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