- Hey I feel your pain man, I come from a long line of windows devices too. I believe the lack of "free" softawre (torrents) is due to the fact that to register apps you need your BB pin number which is unique for every individual.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com05-31-08 11:59 AMLike 0 -
Just wondering why there is so little software for free for the BBs. Any ideas?
10. You are confusing "free" with "stolen".
Thankfully, RIM has good security, requiring developers to purchase code signing certificates to do anything really useful with the RIM API. And, due to this pirates cannot simply patch the source code and post it on torrent sites. This means that people developing for a living, get paid, and the rest of us don't have to pay higher prices.
9. You have not looked very hard.
There is a lot of free software for the Blackberry, although admittedly "a lot" is a bit subjective. Have you tried Google? Posting a request for links to free software? Search the 3rd party forums for the many posts on free software?
8. You are expecting way to much for free
Maybe you are thinking that you should be able to download not only very basic applications for free, but very complex ones that took a team months to develop after years of training. Good luck with that.
7. You are used to getting things for free
You are not Republican, enough said. =)
6. You are confused about the meaning of "free" in "free market"
Best to re-take that HS government class and basic economics for the big picture.
5. You do not spend enough time on Crackberry.com
But then again, is it EVER possible to spend enough time on here?
4. You cannot afford to own a Blackberry
Your last phone was pre-paid, and people look at you funny when you pay with food stamps while talking on your new BOLD.
3. Capitalism sucks
You actually have to pay for stuff, and earn a living.
2. Programmers expect to actuallly get paid (how dare they!)
Programmers for some unknown reason think they deserve to be paid after going to school for several years and getting a degree, and working for months on the latest cool thing. I mean, how dare they when they can come in our store and get free stuff!
1. You haven't written more free applications!
When are you releasing them?
WARNING: The above is humor, something that some may find offensive. If you were offended, get some therapy.05-31-08 12:27 PMLike 0 - sunkastSuper BadThat's great Patrick. A couple of other reasons are that RIM expects you to purchase a trusted certificate license for apps. One of the big selling points of a BB is it's security. Now if anyone and every could create an app, how do you know you can trust the app? That the app will actually work and not destabilize the device...05-31-08 12:54 PMLike 0
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I've heard this before, maybe its ATT, but I have no problems reading WORD and EXCEL docs (as well as PDFs)
I have no additional apps beyond whatever is built into OS 422170
.05-31-08 01:08 PMLike 0 - I can relate to the OP. I came from a long line of Windows Mobile devices before I saw the light. I asked the same question, albeit on another forum , when I got my BB. Not that I pirated programs, but there is a ton of freeware for WM out there. What I came to find out was that I simply didn't need any freeware....the BlackBerry just works! I had to add tons of programs to make my WM do what BB already does. And a BB does it without having to be rebooted 10 times a day.05-31-08 03:15 PMLike 0
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10. You are confusing "free" with "stolen".
On the Palm OS there is tons of free little tidbits that developers like to dump into the community, e.g. currency converters, measurement converters, simple stopwatch and countdown timers, etc. On a Blackberry you've got to pay $10 for a POS with an awkward, ugly interface. Heck - it's $20 to download the free US Constitution to read on the Blackberry, LOL!!!
Thankfully, RIM has good security, requiring developers to purchase code signing certificates to do anything really useful with the RIM API. And, due to this pirates cannot simply patch the source code and post it on torrent sites. This means that people developing for a living, get paid, and the rest of us don't have to pay higher prices.
And this means that simple efforts require the owners of Blackberries to be punished into paying serious dollars for just a small application. It also means that when you get a replacement device, you want to kill yourself after all the teeth pulling required to update every piece of software that requires the manufacturer to generate their new pins. Oh boy... I've already suffered through this once and also with Handango.
9. You have not looked very hard.
I have. Even the paid stuff ain't pretty to look at - take Pocket Day, one of the most useful apps I paid $40 for. To even compare its aesthetics that with any Today screen of Pocket PC, Palm OS or Symbian is downright hysterical.
8. You are expecting way to much for free
See above.
7. You are used to getting things for free
Yes, we are and many people are happy to share. It's too bad that RIM hasn't figured this out and that many Blackberry Fanatics are in denial.
6. You are confused about the meaning of "free" in "free market"
Best to re-take that HS government class and basic economics for the big picture.
This is the part where words like "denial" come into play...
5. You do not spend enough time on Crackberry.com
THIS may be true. It is a fun place. But to call it like it is, most BB apps suck and cost way more than on other platforms. Some exceptions are JiveTalk - a damn awesome chat client, to name one of a few where real love, time and polish went into a BB app.
4. You cannot afford to own a Blackberry.
Your last phone was pre-paid, and people look at you funny when you pay with food stamps while talking on your new BOLD.
Heck, after owning my Blackberry I've decided that maybe I'll go without food in order to save on the application$. The Bold ain't here yet. Heck, the sad fact is that while Pocket PC, Palm OS and Symbian have been simply dragging and dropping Office docs onto their SD cards for YEARS, Blackberry users have had to pay "service" fees to ASPs for the same thing, e.g. Doc Hawk, etc. Even stuff like "ToDo Matrix" doesn't have a desktop app if I recall correctly and uses a web "service" to do the same. So the only thing I'm getting on my BOLD is the same old ****aake mushrooms with bad graphics and megaclick interface with an annual service fee.
3. Capitalism sucks. You actually have to pay for stuff, and earn a living
Didn't know that.
2. Programmers expect to actuallly get paid (how dare they!) Programmers for some unknown reason think they deserve to be paid after going to school for several years and getting a degree, and working for months on the latest cool thing. I mean, how dare they when they can come in our store and get free stuff!
Sure they do. But on a Blackberry I've got to pay THREE TIMES as much for the same software in an uglier interface. I've used all three and anyone who says different is in denial. As you put it above, Blackberry requires payment for application development, testing, etc. making simple apps cost a lot of money. Are they better? I still can't find a bloody ToDo application with a Desktop client that is easy to use and requires a minimum of clicks. It took Dataviz years to port over Documents To Go to BB and it STILL isn't here yet. Now with the iPhone and Pocket PC coming out with their own stuff, few may care about the BB if they realize it costs 3 times as much to do the same thing - in an ugly interface.
1. You haven't written more free applications!
I would expect I'm working too many jobs in order to afford the ones I already have!
In all seriousness, RIM has to decide whether it's a "secure corporate device" or an "open consumer device" or offer an OS that clearly delineates the different needs of each camp. Being stuck in the middle it is doing a mediocre job of both. I'm only using my Blackberry again because my Palm was involved in a little accident and I'm going to switch services and upgrade my phone shortly. While I'd love to stick with Blackberry, they've got to do something in order to make it far more usable than just good email and induce the programming community to develop for the platform. No more annual service fees for basic apps that shouldn't need one (e.g. reading native docs), needs a real launcher that can separate apps into different buckets/menus, native document viewing for the most popular types, a media player that plays the most popular types, moving away from reliance on a server, to name a few. Let's hope RIM gets some of this done before 2009.Last edited by slinky; 05-31-08 at 07:32 PM.
05-31-08 07:28 PMLike 0 - TheSultanThe Sultan of CrackBerryYeah I'll try not to be offended. Humor aside, that was pretty harsh dontcha think? This is how Saturday Night Live came up with the "He's Nick, Your Company's Computer Guy" skit
Do a google search for "free blackberry software" and you'll see that a few things come up. Then do a search for "free palm software" and you'll see the difference. I would do the search and post the results here, but I trust that you are better at searching than I am (that's humor of course!)
Appreciate the support Slinky!05-31-08 07:54 PMLike 0 - amazinglygracelessRetired Mod05-31-08 08:01 PMLike 0
- Having been in the Pocket PC and Palm world, it seems you might not understand just how good free and paid software is on platforms other than the Blackberry. To answer your responses... with humor of course.
On the Palm OS there is tons of free little tidbits that developers like to dump into the community, e.g. currency converters, measurement converters, simple stopwatch and countdown timers, etc. On a Blackberry you've got to pay $10 for a POS with an awkward, ugly interface. Heck - it's $20 to download the free US Constitution to read on the Blackberry, LOL!!!
The above confirms to me that you haven't looked at all, because there are, in fact, free applications for the above applications (and much more) available for Blackberry. The one exception possibly is "POS", whatever that is, I'm not sure, but again I encourage you to look, post, and google. I know of several hundred applications that are available free.
Love the idea of the US Constitution, I have free printed copies from the Heritage Foundation. You can easily read this for free on the Blackberry, but again you have to put forth some effort, ie. ask on the forums or do some googling. For this, I'd recommend Mobipocket, again a free application.
And this means that simple efforts require the owners of Blackberries to be punished into paying serious dollars for just a small application. It also means that when you get a replacement device, you want to kill yourself after all the teeth pulling required to update every piece of software that requires the manufacturer to generate their new pins. Oh boy... I've already suffered through this once and also with Handango.
As far as PINs go, I understand and agree with you, except here again there is a solution. First, professional applications should allow a legit user to switch their PIN online 24/7 with proper authentication, thus allowing you to transfer your license at will. Second, there is a payware application (I forget the name at the moment, but it's posted here on crackberry.com) that allows you to setup your applications as you purchase them for such updates in the event of an equipment failure. Now, if your time is so valuable to you, then clearly it is not a cost, but a savings to pay these guys who developed it so that you might then save all that time, recoup your costs, and save a bit in the bargain. On the other hand, if your time would not be better spent more productively, and it wouldn't save you money, you can choose to just do it manually. Again, free market. If it upsets you that you have to pay someone else, then don't complain, go make one yourself. I mean what legitimate grip do you have that you have to pay for it, unless you are a socialist or communist and think that anytime you don't have something it's not fair. See what I mean? I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to show you the lack of logic in the "it should be free" (why?) argument.
I have. Even the paid stuff ain't pretty to look at - take Pocket Day, one of the most useful apps I paid $40 for. To even compare its aesthetics that with any Today screen of Pocket PC, Palm OS or Symbian is downright hysterical.
And see above for not looking enough for free stuff.
Yes, we are and many people are happy to share. It's too bad that RIM hasn't figured this out and that many Blackberry Fanatics are in denial.
THIS may be true. It is a fun place. But to call it like it is, most BB apps suck and cost way more than on other platforms. Some exceptions are JiveTalk - a damn awesome chat client, to name one of a few where real love, time and polish went into a BB app.
Heck, after owning my Blackberry I've decided that maybe I'll go without food in order to save on the application$. The Bold ain't here yet. Heck, the sad fact is that while Pocket PC, Palm OS and Symbian have been simply dragging and dropping Office docs onto their SD cards for YEARS, Blackberry users have had to pay "service" fees to ASPs for the same thing, e.g. Doc Hawk, etc.
Even stuff like "ToDo Matrix" doesn't have a desktop app if I recall correctly and uses a web "service" to do the same.
The purpose of the online application is not just to allow you to use it with a keyboard, but to allow you to have a 24/7 backup of mission critical data that is professionally maintained, backed up, and fault tolerant.
In other words, it's a business application. You are paying them a recurring fee for that service, something a desktop application could not replicate (unless you want to put in your own backup net connections, backup servers, and IT staff).
If you are not using your BB for business, and don't want to pay for business level services, there are a couple of low cost or even free todo lists available, just ask people. Just becaue an expensive business application is not "affordable" or "cost effective" for a non-business user does not make Blackberries suck.
So the only thing I'm getting on my BOLD is the same old ****aake mushrooms with bad graphics and megaclick interface with an annual service fee.
Sure they do. But on a Blackberry I've got to pay THREE TIMES as much for the same software in an uglier interface. I've used all three and anyone who says different is in denial.
As you put it above, Blackberry requires payment for application development, testing, etc. making simple apps cost a lot of money. Are they better?
I still can't find a bloody ToDo application with a Desktop client that is easy to use and requires a minimum of clicks.
I would expect I'm working too many jobs in order to afford the ones I already have!
In all seriousness, RIM has to decide whether it's a "secure corporate device" or an "open consumer device" or offer an OS that clearly delineates the different needs of each camp. Being stuck in the middle it is doing a mediocre job of both. I'm only using my Blackberry again because my Palm was involved in a little accident and I'm going to switch services and upgrade my phone shortly. While I'd love to stick with Blackberry, they've got to do something in order to make it far more usable than just good email and induce the programming community to develop for the platform.
To be honest, one thing I do think is holding things back a bit is RIM is less committed to helping their developers than say Microsoft. Their development tools make me feel like I'm back in the dark ages! But, those will likely get better with time.
Java has issues if you ask me, and I'd really like to eventually see a universal VM, which would allow you to compile from C++, C#, Java, whatever. But, that is only a dream.05-31-08 08:15 PMLike 0 - eZainnyDeveloper - BBSmartJust to answer some of the common questions I've seen come up:
1) Why no free apps? Developing for the BlackBerry is hard compared to WinMo, Symbian, etc and so in order to write an application that doesn't suck you've got to heavily invest yourself for a long time. It's not a fun process. I've been writing about this forever on my site for BlackBerry developers: BlackBerry Developer SideShow
2) To address the other issue I've seen raised regarding the cost of applications, the problem is ultimately market size. Developers price their apps. to make a return on their investment. You want prices to fall, get your friends interested in installing third-party applications. The more people willing to buy BlackBerry software the cheaper we will be able to price it and still make a living. Help us help you.
Anybody that thinks BlackBerry developers are living the "good life" is deluded. Most companies, even the big ones that look professional on the front-end, are tiny one or two man operations. And often, they're struggling. I know, because I talk to a lot of them. In fact, I would say that 99% of companies that develop software for the BlackBerry have less than 3 employees. And take this bit on information from me, the guy running BBSmart, a company that has two of the top 5 selling applications here on CrackBerry, and over on Handango too.
Until BlackBerry software becomes easier to develop and until more people are willing to buy BlackBerry software, nothing is going to change.
Why do you think there are so few companies developing BlackBerry software? Why do you think none of the big companies take this market seriously? If this market had any potential there would be developers all over the place scrambling to get in. But there isn't, because the market just is not there. That's a free market for you.
For the majority of developers thinking about starting a BlackBerry software company, I would actually honestly recommend they go work at the local McDonald's instead. Financially, they'll probably be better off.
With Google Android and the Apple iPhone providing on-device App. Stores, developers are getting direct help from the parent company with marketing their application and so the potential is there to reach a wider audience. And developing for these platforms is easy. Once these devices hit the market, there is going to be a plethora of free & cheap software available for them. And I have no doubt many of the current BlackBerry developers will run away then as well, to greener pastures.06-01-08 02:40 AMLike 0 - Yes, well said eZainny.
It's the same reason toilets are so expensive on the ISS..... market size.
The consumer market is much smaller and softer than the enterprise market with these devices, but that will likely change in the near future from the looks of things.06-01-08 03:20 AMLike 0 - TheSultanThe Sultan of CrackBerryeZainny, thank you for you genuine and helpful post. I appreciate the straightforward nature of your explanations. In fact, it makes me want to buy your applications
Unfortunately, this doesn't excite me about the future of the phone I just bought!
I do believe though that Blackberry is going the same direction as Mac's and will begin to see a large market share in the consumer industry, rather than their primary market previously, the commercial sector. I think BB's development of a flip phone speaks to this.
Hopefully those of us that got in early will appreciate the development of new ideas and see how this plays out by BB appreciating their customers06-01-08 08:15 AMLike 0 - TheSultanThe Sultan of CrackBerryBy the way, while I'm waiting for new applications. I've done some searching for blackberry freeware and haven't found much, surprisingly, that was the catalyst for starting this thread.
Patrick, it would be great if you could throw some links into this thread (yes I know there are other threads already, I've found them), it would be neat to see them alongside the other things that have been said here.06-01-08 08:17 AMLike 0 - The above confirms to me that you haven't looked at all, because there are, in fact, free applications for the above applications (and much more) available for Blackberry. The one exception possibly is "POS", whatever that is, I'm not sure, but again I encourage you to look, post, and google. I know of several hundred applications that are available free.
Love the idea of the US Constitution, I have free printed copies from the Heritage Foundation. You can easily read this for free on the Blackberry, but again you have to put forth some effort, ie. ask on the forums or do some googling. For this, I'd recommend Mobipocket, again a free application.
Simple efforts?? Are you refering to programming a Blackberry? If you are, and it is so simple, please be our guest and write a few of these "simple" applications. Interestingly, I think if you do a cost analysis of your time vs. the time it would take you to develop, or the cost to you to pay someone to develop it for you...<snipped>
If you have paid for stuff you don't feel is worth it (pretty?), and are not happy with your choice, you have only yourself to blame, not the market or seller.
If you feel another device is better for you, then by all means go use it. In other words, why the heck do you still have a Blackberry if it sucks so bad for you? I guess I'm just curious how if the other devices you own are so great you aren't just using them. It seems your actions speak louder than your words, and are not congruent.
But don't worry. I'll be likely getting a new phone and am waiting for the next generations to come out shortly since strategically it makes sense and to wallow with the BB. If 4.5 comes out I may be able to DOWNLOAD ATTACHMENTS IN EMAIL (what a novel concept!!!) and perhaps use the phone with the basic features everyone else has had for years. I only hope it comes out soon but on Verizon, it could be 2010 with their alacrity.
RIM and others are in denial about what? It is you I believe who is in denial. If you do not wish to pay for software, no one is holding a gun to your head. Moreover, it's a free country (here in the US anyway), and you are free to go ahead and spend as much money and resources as you wish to put all of us payware developers to shame and release as many freeware apps as you wish. Personally, I can't wait till the flood of your awesome applications hit the market.
So, go back to your palm, or don't buy them. Personally, I think there are a few great applications out there... but then I have reviewed personally several hundred. How many have you downloaded, installed, and used?
Here again, your lack of knowledge about what is available is limiting you. I can drag and drop docs onto my SD card, and view them just fine, all for free too.
When you say "to do the same thing", you forget to mention what that is, but I'm assuming you mean allow you to manage your todo lists on your desktop vs. online on the server. The purpose of the online application is not just to allow you to use it with a keyboard, but to allow you to have a 24/7 backup of mission critical data that is professionally maintained, backed up, and fault tolerant. In other words, it's a business application. You are paying them a recurring fee for that service, something a desktop application could not replicate (unless you want to put in your own backup net connections, backup servers, and IT staff).
If you are not using your BB for business, and don't want to pay for business level services, there are a couple of low cost or even free todo lists available, just ask people. Just becaue an expensive business application is not "affordable" or "cost effective" for a non-business user does not make Blackberries suck.
If you don't need the annual service, don't get it. You'll know you "need" it, when it's cost is worth the benefit and reduced risk.
You have somewhat of a point here, but I think RIM knows right where they are at, which is why their stock is soaring. Perhaps you are a consumer trying to use a business device, and have the wrong device for your needs. To be honest, one thing I do think is holding things back a bit is RIM is less committed to helping their developers than say Microsoft. Their development tools make me feel like I'm back in the dark ages! But, those will likely get better with time. Java has issues if you ask me, and I'd really like to eventually see a universal VM, which would allow you to compile from C++, C#, Java, whatever. But, that is only a dream.Last edited by slinky; 06-01-08 at 08:34 AM.
06-01-08 08:27 AMLike 0 - eZainnyDeveloper - BBSmarteZainny, thank you for you genuine and helpful post. I appreciate the straightforward nature of your explanations. In fact, it makes me want to buy your applications
Unfortunately, this doesn't excite me about the future of the phone I just bought!
I do believe though that Blackberry is going the same direction as Mac's and will begin to see a large market share in the consumer industry, rather than their primary market previously, the commercial sector. I think BB's development of a flip phone speaks to this.
Hopefully those of us that got in early will appreciate the development of new ideas and see how this plays out by BB appreciating their customers
No problem.
Personally, I agree it's a little bit depressing too. Right now we've got quite a few applications coming up. Some will be ready for market in as little as two weeks and there has been a big battle raging internally here on what to set the prices...It's tough, even for guys like us who are more well known than most.
I agree that the consumer side of the BlackBerry userbase is growing which is good news for developers! The more users out there willing to install "software on their phone" (still a concept foreign for many) the bigger our potential market is. RIM could really play a big role here to help developers with distribution by including an App Store on device or integrated in to the Desktop Manager. Not only will that help new users find and install software, it will help even seasoned BB users find out about apps. they probably didn't know existed (and would want).
CrackBerry does a good job too. Kevin goes out of his way to try and promote developers, review our software, etc. If you read this Kev, kudos to you too!
But developers don't hold a lot of sway with RIM unfortunately, so the best thing is for users (the people with the buying power) to pressure RIM as well. Email them to let them know the lack of third-party applications for the BlackBerry impacted your purchasing decision.
DevBerry, the site I run, has been my one man personal crusade to get RIM to take developers seriously Probably hasn't done that much overall, but I figure one voice is better than none.06-01-08 08:50 AMLike 0
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