1. Optimusv2's Avatar
    It has been awhile since I backed up my copy of .75 to give .85 another test drive to see if I had any of the same problems that caused me to go back to .75 before, and surprisingly, I'm not noticing any of those problems that forced me to go back down to .75.

    Aside from that, I'm having a situation currently, that I don't even know if I should be considering a problem or not.

    I'm a new BlackBerry user; the Storm is my first ever BlackBerry device, but one of the more common things I've had drilled into me from reading these forums is that the amount of free application you have left matters a great deal. Well, given about a good 8-15 hours or so, my free app memory will go from the high 40MBs to as low as 4.5MB.

    What's funny though is that there is zero degradation in performance. Every single app I use still acts and performs as fast as it would when my free app memory is as high as 50MB. So what's the deal? Is it the same for anyone else? In OS versions before this, except .75 (I never go below 30MB in .75 and memory returns fairly regularly), when it would go down to about 20MB or so, I actually noticed decreased performance.

    It isn't happening with .85 though. No matter how low it goes, the performance is still great. I've been reading about people doing battery pulls in .85 whenever free app memory gets low so my question is, what's the point of doing a battery pull if the performance is still great? I've even opened up multiple programs at the same time to see if I notice any problems, and the performance is still the same.
    01-07-09 06:06 AM
  2. pbsd's Avatar
    Its just you. :-P

    Once most peoples go below 20 its like watching paint peel off a wall.

    Actually I remember with my curve or pearl that once the free memory got too low, instead of warning me like you would expect, it deleted all my text messages.

    In some areas .85 is fast for me but I might end up going to att for the bold.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-07-09 06:15 AM
  3. Fbrn's Avatar
    If your memory goes down that low then it will start deleting older emails and sms messages. At least that is what it did to mine. I find that I don't need to do battery pulls every morning if I simply delete the error log and then do the memory cleaning. It keeps my memory around 30mb which is good for me. Personally I think .85 is a huge improvement over .75 and all it needs to be an awesome os is the media card bug fixed so that it doesn't give me the verzion screen of death.
    01-07-09 06:17 AM
  4. Optimusv2's Avatar
    I guess I can scratch that no problems thing once it goes that low.

    I started to notice some small issues in memopad. It wouldn't respond quickly enough, it took far longer to switch to landscape than it normally does, holding down the menu button would no longer show me all the apps currently running and the shortcut to highlight entire sentences or paragraphs for deletion stopped working and would bring up the menu instead.

    All the other issues that I use to get in .85 aren't there though. I guess then, in my case, the thing that needs to be fixed most about .85 is the crazy memory leak.

    Even so, my performance is still top notch in all my other more commonly used programs. The browser is still blazing fast, AP Mobile News is running great, Weather Bug is running exceptionally well. Weather Bug is the latest thing I added to my Storm so I wonder if it's the reason for this unprecedented level of memory leak. It's never been this bad for me. I've used .85 before and I don't recall any memory leaks at all and now it's out of control. The newest thing I added was definitely Weather Bug.

    It could be causing problems, so I'll get rid of it.

    So far, so good. It's too early to tell, but Weather Bug really might have been the problem that was causing .85 to leak memory like crazy. I'll know for sure by like 3-5PMEST today. So far, it's really looking like Weather Bug is a massive memory hog.
    Last edited by Optimusv2; 01-07-09 at 08:59 AM.
    01-07-09 06:31 AM
  5. 1magine's Avatar
    I've posted about this several times, including last night.

    1. As many have noted repeatedly, the Storm does not utilize all available RAM, there is nearly a Gig and only 256 Meg is allocated to applications. This is a waste.

    2. More importantly the Storm does not utilize all available application RAM. That is, regardless of how much application RAM is available to an application, it will only utilize a small amount. This is the reason that enabling JAVA and running full IE type browser slows everything to a crawl, and why certain other media functions are abominably slow.

    Solution is an OS that allocates at least 500 Megs to applications, and core applications that will utilize 10-25 megs of Ram if available.
    01-07-09 11:16 AM
  6. Optimusv2's Avatar
    Isn't that 1GB merely just the device memory, or more specifically, the hard drive space and not necessarily the same thing as the device's RAM?

    The 1GB is flash memory is it not? Isn't it no different from the 8GB media card that came with the Storm? I was under the impression it only had 192MB of actual RAM. I'm sure, in time, they'll be able to minimize the memory footprint required by the OS and thus will allow for better operation all around.

    Can't seem to find a definitive source for the specs on this thing. Or maybe I'm just not looking hard enough I suppose.

    BlackBerry Storm 9530

    Guess this is it.

    196MB of RAM
    128MB Flash
    1GB Onboard Memory
    8GB MicroSD card
    Last edited by Optimusv2; 01-07-09 at 11:55 AM.
    01-07-09 11:27 AM
  7. backinblack--berry's Avatar
    Over the last 2 days I've been trying to find out too but judging by the lack of response I guess it's not a big deal.

    I am still on .75 and after a similar thread yesterday I checked my free memory and it was at 5-ish mb. My device was running just fine. I then decided to turn on as much as I could think of (it was then at 7.2mb) and things ran just a bit slower, but everything continued to work just fine. It got down to 410kb at one point and still no issues other than a slight slow down in response. Today at 3.2mb and still humming along.

    The one test I have not done is to throw a video playback at it with everything on and see how it handles it (assuming that would be a significant test?)

    One person was in disbelief as to how my Storm even continues to function but it keeps plugging along.

    In my threads very few seem to think this is a big deal so...yet I've heard time and time again that amount of avail. free memory does affect performance...evidently not in my case

    Ha, ha NFW! just thought I'd check one more time and down to 0.0kb still clicks and responds like it has 30-40mb avail.
    01-07-09 11:46 AM
  8. Optimusv2's Avatar
    Over the last 2 days I've been trying to find out too but judging by the lack of response I guess it's not a big deal.

    I am still on .75 and after a similar thread yesterday I checked my free memory and it was at 5-ish mb. My device was running just fine. I then decided to turn on as much as I could think of (it was then at 7.2mb) and things ran just a bit slower, but everything continued to work just fine. It got down to 410kb at one point and still no issues other than a slight slow down in response. Today at 3.2mb and still humming along.

    The one test I have not done is to throw a video playback at it with everything on and see how it handles it (assuming that would be a significant test?)

    One person was in disbelief as to how my Storm even continues to function but it keeps plugging along.

    In my threads very few seem to think this is a big deal so...yet I've heard time and time again that amount of avail. free memory does affect performance...evidently not in my case

    Ha, ha NFW! just thought I'd check one more time and down to 0.0kb still clicks and responds like it has 30-40mb avail.
    I've never been as low as 0kb, but it's good to see I'm not the only one. I did begin noticing issues as I pointed out up top with memopad and a few other issues, but performance was still top notch. I would expect this to be the case for other users as well, but apparently it isn't.

    RIM positioned this as an Iphone competitor so they'll surely optimize the heck out of it.
    Last edited by Optimusv2; 01-07-09 at 12:09 PM.
    01-07-09 12:04 PM
  9. bigman2's Avatar
    I've posted about this several times, including last night.
    And apparently you've been posting incorrect information several times.

    1. As many have noted repeatedly, the Storm does not utilize all available RAM, there is nearly a Gig and only 256 Meg is allocated to applications. This is a waste.
    That is STORAGE not MEMORY. There is a very important difference between the two. Storage is where you put apps or MP3s, and memory is RAM.

    There is 1GB of internal STORAGE on the Storm, not 1GB of RAM.

    2. More importantly the Storm does not utilize all available application RAM. That is, regardless of how much application RAM is available to an application, it will only utilize a small amount. This is the reason that enabling JAVA and running full IE type browser slows everything to a crawl, and why certain other media functions are abominably slow.
    How exactly do you know that all available application RAM is not being used? I think rather you're once again confusing RAM with storage and are thinking about the 128MB limit on apps that can be installed. I don't know if it would be something Crucial knows anything about, or if it'd be a violation of his NDA to say whether or not this is that way for back compatibility reasons, but that would be my guess as to why it's like that.

    The bit about enabling Java in a browser you completely lost me on. I have about as much of a clue where that came from as I do what you're on about.

    Solution is an OS that allocates at least 500 Megs to applications, and core applications that will utilize 10-25 megs of Ram if available.
    Unfortunately, the reality RIM developers are stuck with isn't quite that simple. They have to try and balance a number of competing interests, many of which the lot of us, but most certainly you, are likely completely oblivious to.
    01-07-09 01:10 PM
  10. marcuswyse's Avatar
    You'll have to excuse the BIGMAN.......he didn't get his morning coffee
    01-07-09 01:15 PM
  11. bigman2's Avatar
    RIM positioned this as an Iphone competitor so they'll surely optimize the heck out of it.
    They did no such thing. Stop assuming that just because something has a touch screen it's automatically intended to be a Jesus Phone killer.

    A few simple facts to consider:

    1: RIM has already saturated the corporate market
    2: It's extremely difficult to sell new devices in a saturated market, especially when you have a reputation for building long lasting, and long supported, devices
    3: RIM's investors expect to see a return on their investment in the form of growth and profits

    So, if you're RIM, and you already have a lock on the corporate market but need to show some growth to fulfill your fiduciary obligations to your investors... Where do you go? Where do you have to go but the broader consumer market?

    The Storm is simply RIM's first attempt at building a device which will appeal to more casual users. It's not meant to compete head on with the Jesus Phone, and in fact RIM seems to have taken very deliberate steps to set the Storm APART from the Jesus Phone. SurePress is probably the single biggest example of this. Simply building another pure touch interface would have been a lot easier, and probably cheaper, but SurePress really sets the Storm apart from every other touch screen device out there.

    If you take nothing else away from this post, let it be that the Storm is NOT intended a Jesus Phone killer. They might share a lot of similar features, and they might compete in the same general market space, but saying it's a Jesus Phone killer is like saying that the Toyota Camery is a Dodge Ram killer because they both have four wheels, doors, a gasoline engine, etc.
    01-07-09 01:22 PM
  12. Optimusv2's Avatar
    What you say makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't change the fact that I saw a RIM employee on television saying explicitly that it was their counterpart to the Iphone.

    In his defense he was careful to refrain from outright saying that it was meant to be an Iphone killer of some sort and was more likely to say something along the lines of :

    "Well there was never a need for us to compete with it in the first place, but saying that, I wouldn't go so far as to say it would be unfair for someone to classify the Storm as being positioned as an alternative to Apple's device, but do keep in mind that we've been at this for quite some time. The Storm is just a new and exciting concept to a tried and true formula. There just so happens to be a few other big name devices out there and nothing will stop people from drawing parallels."

    Then he went into this whole about how they feel it's very different from the Iphone and what their intentions are from what they aren't.

    That isn't the exact quote, but I tried to remember it as best as I could. So someone has, at the very least, gone on record on behalf of RIM stating that it wouldn't be unfair to classify it as an alternative to what Apple has. It was definitely a RIM employee too and not a low ranking one.
    Last edited by Optimusv2; 01-07-09 at 02:05 PM.
    01-07-09 02:01 PM
  13. cray1000's Avatar
    if we had 512mb of ram on the phone the battery probably wouldnt last more than half the day.

    what they need is to retool the os to allow installations on flash. that is the solution. increasing ram to 512mb will kill battery life.
    01-07-09 02:06 PM
  14. bigman2's Avatar
    I would certainly believe that the Jesus Phone was an influence on the Storm as things went along, but they were never really intending to compete head on with the Jesus Phone. It would make a great deal of sense to look at a successful product like the Jesus Phone, and see about incorporating a lot of the better ideas into the Storm... And of course only an ***** would think that devices with similar feature sets aren't going to be competing for some of the same customer base... But all of this is a very far cry from the claim of RIM positioning the Storm as a Jesus Phone competitor. Any competition is purely incidental and/or a fabrication of the mobile phone press that is looking to sensationalize things.

    There's certainly some overlap in the market segment they're both going after, but really I'd say Apple is competing more with RIM than RIM is competing with Apple. Apple desperately wants to get into the lucrative corporate world that RIM dominates. RIM is in a much better position to take their time going after the casual user segment. The Jesus Phone is locked to AT&T, and that leaves all the other carriers and their customers wide open for a device like the Storm.

    In a lot of respects, the Storm was probably a bit too successful. Which is a good thing for those of us who own it, since it will encourage RIM to devote a lot of resources to the Storm... But RIM will probably have a rough time ahead when they try and launch a successor to the Storm. They probably set the bar just a bit too high with the Storm and will be hard pressed to repeat the same success.

    But all of this is really getting off the topic of application memory, so to bring it a bit back around to that subject...

    If RIM put in 512MB of RAM on the Storm, it would have very minimal impact on battery life. RAM takes very little power to operate really. The reason there's only 128-196MB of RAM is due to cost. You have to remember that RIM can't just slap together a phone like the Storm in 6 months. Development on the Storm probably started 2-2.5 years ago at least. RAM prices were quite a bit higher back then, and RIM wants to try and keep the cost of production low enough that they can sell the phone at a reasonable price point to carriers. Much more than about $500, and carriers aren't going to want to subsidize it quite as much, and then the cost to the consumer is higher.

    There are a lot of things that might make the Storm better, it's just a matter of balancing all of those against opposing interests. Business users tend to have a very different set of wants in a phone compared to you and me. So it's not an easy thing to try and strike some kind of balance between these competing interests. I suspect that if they did much of anything to increase the amount of app storage space, it would likely mess with their back compatibility. So, a not so small bit of retooling the OS would be required. Maybe come OS 4.8 or 5.0 they can work out something where you can run apps off a memory card or internal storage without destroying back compatibility. It might be that only Storm apps can run off the memory card, and older apps must be installed in the main app memory. This creates issues with how do you make it so the user can easily select where they want apps to be installed, and you'd have to scan the memory card for installed apps as well... Lots of annoying little details would have to be worked out, so I'm sure it's one of those ideas that's always being kicked around at RIM development HQ, and is probably on a wishlist of things to implement, but I wouldn't expect to see it in OS 4.7. If there's a 4.8 or 5.0 for the Storm, maybe then, but I highly doubt it'll ever show up in 4.7.
    01-07-09 03:03 PM
  15. kylev2006's Avatar
    getting off topic?

    any ways.

    the speed of the storm.

    I am on .75 still and currently downloading .85 looking for some big fixes with IM clients and the camera and hopefully less sticky screen rotations.. needing a 45 degree turn to go to landscape but a 90 degree turn to go back... kind of annoying to me..

    anyways the speed is fine for me and the performance of the storm works great other than minor 3rd party software it runs and performs like a champ for business and pleasure!
    01-07-09 03:57 PM
  16. Optimusv2's Avatar
    I would certainly believe that the Jesus Phone was an influence on the Storm as things went along, but they were never really intending to compete head on with the Jesus Phone. It would make a great deal of sense to look at a successful product like the Jesus Phone, and see about incorporating a lot of the better ideas into the Storm... And of course only an ***** would think that devices with similar feature sets aren't going to be competing for some of the same customer base... But all of this is a very far cry from the claim of RIM positioning the Storm as a Jesus Phone competitor. Any competition is purely incidental and/or a fabrication of the mobile phone press that is looking to sensationalize things.

    There's certainly some overlap in the market segment they're both going after, but really I'd say Apple is competing more with RIM than RIM is competing with Apple. Apple desperately wants to get into the lucrative corporate world that RIM dominates. RIM is in a much better position to take their time going after the casual user segment. The Jesus Phone is locked to AT&T, and that leaves all the other carriers and their customers wide open for a device like the Storm.

    In a lot of respects, the Storm was probably a bit too successful. Which is a good thing for those of us who own it, since it will encourage RIM to devote a lot of resources to the Storm... But RIM will probably have a rough time ahead when they try and launch a successor to the Storm. They probably set the bar just a bit too high with the Storm and will be hard pressed to repeat the same success.

    But all of this is really getting off the topic of application memory, so to bring it a bit back around to that subject...

    If RIM put in 512MB of RAM on the Storm, it would have very minimal impact on battery life. RAM takes very little power to operate really. The reason there's only 128-196MB of RAM is due to cost. You have to remember that RIM can't just slap together a phone like the Storm in 6 months. Development on the Storm probably started 2-2.5 years ago at least. RAM prices were quite a bit higher back then, and RIM wants to try and keep the cost of production low enough that they can sell the phone at a reasonable price point to carriers. Much more than about $500, and carriers aren't going to want to subsidize it quite as much, and then the cost to the consumer is higher.

    There are a lot of things that might make the Storm better, it's just a matter of balancing all of those against opposing interests. Business users tend to have a very different set of wants in a phone compared to you and me. So it's not an easy thing to try and strike some kind of balance between these competing interests. I suspect that if they did much of anything to increase the amount of app storage space, it would likely mess with their back compatibility. So, a not so small bit of retooling the OS would be required. Maybe come OS 4.8 or 5.0 they can work out something where you can run apps off a memory card or internal storage without destroying back compatibility. It might be that only Storm apps can run off the memory card, and older apps must be installed in the main app memory. This creates issues with how do you make it so the user can easily select where they want apps to be installed, and you'd have to scan the memory card for installed apps as well... Lots of annoying little details would have to be worked out, so I'm sure it's one of those ideas that's always being kicked around at RIM development HQ, and is probably on a wishlist of things to implement, but I wouldn't expect to see it in OS 4.7. If there's a 4.8 or 5.0 for the Storm, maybe then, but I highly doubt it'll ever show up in 4.7.
    Great post.
    01-07-09 06:04 PM
  17. BB_SHAWN's Avatar
    Dude, the thread is 9 months old... .85 isn't even used anymore....
    09-29-09 03:29 PM
  18. McCracken's Avatar
    And this is why people who tell noobs to "search first" are stupid. Noobs dredge up old *** threads that aren't even relevant.
    09-29-09 03:38 PM
  19. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    And this is why people who tell noobs to "search first" are stupid. Noobs dredge up old *** threads that aren't even relevant.
    Sweet Jesus!!! There's no happy median... lol


    And to dscuglia, your media card doesn't count in terms of app memory. Look under Options/Status for File Free. If that runs low, you'll have issues. Uninstall some apps to free stuff up and save all your pics/ringtones/videos on your media card. Do a little reading in the FAQ subforum for the Storm and it'll shed some light on the matter.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 09-29-09 at 03:56 PM.
    09-29-09 03:54 PM
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