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03-11-14 02:06 AM
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  1. 312's Avatar
    Today a customer who purchased my app, CraigsFeed, for $4.99 in App World apparently had some technical issues with using the app. Now, a normal person would send a request from the support site we provided to our customers in the event they have questions or issues, in a POLITE way which would encourage us to quickly rectify their situation. Instead, this customer decided it would be good idea to make threats and treat us as if we are scum.

    Hello Glenn Vaughn,

    Your ticket has been created with the following details:

    Subject: Sub Category
    Message: I purchased 6/8/2012 your CraigsFeed software that doesn't work properly!

    I'm using Sprint Blackberry 9930.

    Out of the 8 Category titles Personals, Community, Events, Housing, For Sale / Wanted, Jobs, Gigs and Services Offered only Personals has a Sub Category that actually works; therefore since just 1 out of your 8 Sub Categories works then request that you quickly fix this issue otherwise am going to contact my credit card company for a full refund then post on Blackberry.com that your program doesn't really work?
    Date: June 8, 2012, 4:54 pm
    Priority: Low
    Department: CraigsFeed

    First of all, don't "request to quickly fix the issue". Of course we're going to investigate any problems you're having and work on them as soon as possible. We don't need to be TOLD to.

    Second, what kind of motivation is there to help you when you are basically telling us that you're going to file a fraudulent claim with your credit card company in order to steal back $4.99?

    Third, don't threaten us with leaving a review. This is just childish.

    The $2.50 I am going to profit from your purchase doesn't entitle you to talk to me like that. As a matter of fact, $250 wouldn't either. None of this is going to make a developer want to work with you or on your issue. Here's a better way to have written this:

    "Hello- I purchased your CraigsFeed app on 6/8 for my 9930 on Sprint. I seem to have an issue loading sub-categories. I've tried all 8 categories and only 1 is working. What I've tried is, exiting and re-opening the app, rebooting my phone and reinstalling the app. None of these have worked so far. Can you please help me figure out what the issue might be? Thanks in advance."

    So people, in the future, if you have an issue with an app you purchased, just be polite. Problems will get solved. I think 99% of app developers would be eager to help you resolve anything you needed. This is, of course, our livelihood.

    As a side note, I've decided not to help this customer. He has replied to me several times threatening to do a chargeback and attempt to smear my name all over the internet, so I see no reason to offer help. I've investigated his issue and am unable to replicate it, anyway.
    Last edited by 312; 06-08-12 at 06:07 PM.
    06-08-12 06:03 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Sadly, some people just don't understand you will get further with politeness rather than barking out demands.
    06-08-12 06:17 PM
  3. sedalia066's Avatar
    Our world society is becoming one of entitlement rather than one of gratitude. People want what they want and expect vendors to hop to the piper's tune. Lots more flies can be caught with honey than with vinegar but that takes a bit more tome and effort.
    06-08-12 07:30 PM
  4. bobauckland's Avatar
    First of all BlackBerry apps are priced higher than their counterparts on other OSes, and then so many devs come on to complain about customers leaving bad reviews etc on here.

    I don't get it, if you design something some people will like it, some people won't. If they've paid for it and aren't happy and let you know, is there really a need as a dev to come on here and complain about it? Seriously?

    Personally seeing a dev state he/she has no plans to support the customer says more to me about the dev than the customer.
    iceroadman likes this.
    06-09-12 03:29 AM
  5. 312's Avatar
    I already mentioned in my original post that paying me $2 or $5 or $500 doesn't entitle you to talk to me any way you wish. This person didn't "let us know" they weren't happy- they attempted to get something by making threats. This is called EXTORTION and if by us not giving into being extorted tells you something negative about us, you have a twisted sense of thinking.
    06-09-12 03:55 AM
  6. Vijik's Avatar
    I understand what the OP feels because I have also experienced similar issues.

    One of the most extreme one is when one person ( R) sent angry emails demanding Mr. X (a support person on my team) to call him within the next 30 minutes on a Sunday to help him with the app.
    R was rude and very demanding in the emails, calling Mr. X anything he wanted, and X responded with "Dear Customer" on every email because we had "Customer is always right" policy.

    At the end, when I saw the emails sent by R, I had to tell X to not respond because R didn't seam to have anything else to do than harassing X and demanding a lot.

    R hadn't even pay $4.99 for the app. He was using the free trial version.

    When R did not receive answers, he sent email requesting $500 for the time he spent using the free trial version of the app.

    Mr. X resigned because of this R person (and because we did not pay him enough for that kind of support job).


    Now, there are also some developers who are rude to customers. But as OP has mentioned, people (both developers and customers) can achieve a lot more by having understanding for the person on the other end of the conversation.
    Last edited by Vijik; 06-09-12 at 09:45 AM.
    06-09-12 09:22 AM
  7. T
    I recently took money back from a developer whose app didn't work. See my UPDATE in this topic:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-buyer-727671/

    I won't be kissing any developers a$$es when their crap doesn't work.
    iceroadman likes this.
    06-09-12 09:37 AM
  8. pa7tip's Avatar
    How to not get support from a consumer? You've just figured it out.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    iceroadman likes this.
    06-09-12 09:42 AM
  9. jonathon.94's Avatar
    Computers (that includes phones like blackberrys) are a bit strange. you can have two devices that both have the same os, hardware, etc. and one can get a bug and one will run software just fine. It is impossible for any small developer to deal with this besides the consumer being patient with the developer and giving him/her what is requested such as OS version and certain logs which could show the developer the reason for the software not working. Developers are not perfect, I have not heard of one developer that can release software that is completely bug free on every device there are just too many variables that the developer would have to compensate for to do this. If being a developer was easy there would be no need for them cause most consumers could quickly make the app they need exactly how they want it. Since that is not possible, be patient and give them what they need to fix your issue I mean it's not like they owe you much, the $3 you paid them they could re make from another customer who is much nicer. Just because you paid them a few bucks doesn't give you the right to treat them like dirt.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9330 using Tapatalk
    Vijik and MasterOfBinary like this.
    06-09-12 10:14 AM
  10. T
    The money I paid for the theme I bought wasn't defective. I don't care what developers' problems are. I'm an electrician by trade. With electrical work peoples' lives and property are at stake. I don't get to just keep the money if work I do isn't up to par for any reason. Best case scenario is I have to warranty the work I do, no excuses; worst case scenario is people get hurt or die. I can use the couple bucks to enjoy a latte just as well as any "rockstar" developer who thinks his craft is some kind of core service.
    iceroadman likes this.
    06-09-12 10:24 AM
  11. 312's Avatar
    The money I paid for the theme I bought wasn't defective. I don't care what developers' problems are. I'm an electrician by trade. With electrical work peoples' lives and property are at stake. I don't get to just keep the money if work I do isn't up to par for any reason. Best case scenario is I have to warranty the work I do, no excuses; worst case scenario is people get hurt or die. I can use the couple bucks to enjoy a latte just as well as any "rockstar" developer who thinks his craft is some kind of core service.
    You were in the wrong.
    reeneebob likes this.
    06-09-12 10:59 AM
  12. T
    Please elaborate. What did I do wrong?
    06-09-12 11:06 AM
  13. 312's Avatar
    Your issue, which is a common issue, was with App World- NOT the theme. You can't just go around in life doing chargebacks. How would you feel if one of the customers you did electrical work for filed a chargeback after you did the work?
    06-09-12 11:15 AM
  14. T
    I didn't do a "chargeback." My issue was the theme I got from AppWorld didn't work. I contacted RIM and got a refund. RIM gave me the refund. What it did with the developer is not my concern. I would hope it didn't pay him. So what did I do wrong?
    06-09-12 11:20 AM
  15. 312's Avatar
    I recently took money back from a developer...
    I didn't do a "chargeback."
    I would hope it didn't pay him.
    So what did I do wrong?
    Really? This is reminiscent of 2nd grade.
    06-09-12 11:30 AM
  16. Flexin's Avatar
    The money I paid for the theme I bought wasn't defective. I don't care what developers' problems are. I'm an electrician by trade. With electrical work peoples' lives and property are at stake. I don't get to just keep the money if work I do isn't up to par for any reason. Best case scenario is I have to warranty the work I do, no excuses; worst case scenario is people get hurt or die. I can use the couple bucks to enjoy a latte just as well as any "rockstar" developer who thinks his craft is some kind of core service.
    So if you wire my house and a plug doesn't work I can just get my money back? Nope. It doesn't work that way. I need to contact you and deal with you. I need to have you come back and fix the problem. If I call you at 10 am are you going to stop the job you are working on right now and come over and fix it? Can you be there by 10:30?

    I don't know if they contacted you back yet but they should be giving time to fix the problem. If a week goes by without hearing form them then it starts to become a problem.

    All that being said, don't paint all developers with the same brush. I'm sure you don't want people to think that your work is going to be the same as some fly by night guy.

    James
    312 likes this.
    06-09-12 11:31 AM
  17. T
    Here's an analogy, and and it's kind of like this. Let's say I'm an electrical contractor. You see my ad on Craigslist and call me because it's winter, your heat doesn't work as well as it should, and you would like it fixed. I take your credit card info, charge you for a service call, and dispatch one of my "best" guys. He shows up, does some work, and leaves before you're home from running a fast errand. You come home, and now your heat doesn't work at all. You call me. I tell you, look I didn't do the work myself so I really have no idea what the technician did. Here's his number, give him a call and work it out with him. You tell me the technician left his number on a piece of paper, you already called him, it was noisy when the call connected, neither one of you could hear each other, and it sounded like he was in a bar. You called him back again and left a message, but the technician isn't returning your call. I keep telling you to call him, and he obviously thinks it's his bosses problem, because he's off now. Meanwhile you're home, cold, with no heat. What would you do? Just let it ride? Or would you get on my case and demand the money back? (After all, you need it to pay someone else to fix the problem my guy made worse.)
    06-09-12 11:35 AM
  18. 9of13's Avatar
    electrical work and apps/themes are apples and oranges.
    electrical work goes for hundreds and even thousands of dollars. if done wrong,as stated, can cause damage and put lives at risk.
    if an app doesn't work, you're not gonna die.
    when I developed themes, customers can be the worst. even when its free.
    some people think its their right to boss people around just because they pais $.99. um......no.
    in this day of piratcy, everyone tries every way to get over on paying for apps. ill get people who buy the theme, claim it didn't work, couldn't tell me how it didn't work, and demanded a refund. another time I had one guy bark at me cause the theme never loaded to his phone. turns out it was his fault, and didn't check compatability. but that is one exception.
    how about the people who buy an app, don't like it, and demands a refund? those are the more frequent.
    sure, devs aren't rockstars, but we are not servants either. common courtesy goes everywhere with everything.
    nine out of ten times, devs arent even full time devs. its just to get by with the bills every month. a lot of us have "day jobs". how is someone gonna have the audacity to demand $500 from a dev because they wasted time trying to get an app they paid what. 2.99 to work?
    that's insane!
    word of advice everyone from someone who's both a dev AND customer, politeness and common courtesy goes both ways.
    do we go to your job and complain that you burned my mc nuggets?
    Resistance is futile
    06-09-12 12:14 PM
  19. wu-wei's Avatar
    With electrical work peoples' lives and property are at stake. I don't get to just keep the money if work I do isn't up to par for any reason. Best case scenario is I have to warranty the work I do, no excuses; worst case scenario is people get hurt or die.
    Theme and app development is just a little different.

    Nearly every customer I deal with is pleasant and cordial.

    Take a look at my leebo thread and you'll see good customer service, and you'll also see a fair amount of demands made for something free. I catered to a lot of those requests because I had the time and was willing to do that work. But I easily had hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into that work and all the different versions that were created. And I gave that all away for free.

    If someone isn't happy with a paid product, get a refund. But threats are no way to get support - eespecially if you want to keep using the product.

    Simple fact is basic civility is seriously lacking for a lot of people.
    06-09-12 12:19 PM
  20. dbmalloy's Avatar
    I have been on both sides of this issue... I have purchased 3 apps that absolutely do not work.... Never could figure out why..... My take is I paid at most $5.00 at most for my apps... I need to balance off the price versus the amount of time and hassle to deal with it.... I use Paypal so charging back has never been an issue... If the seller is being a knob... guess what... i can be one too....

    As I do service work computers for a living.... I know the hassles of dealing with unhappy customers.... but this is where I draw the line... If you are having inital issue I would expect a customer to at least being civil.... If I have a nasty customer I tend to dig in my heels and hassle them back... customers who try to work with me I give my 100 percent back,... it really is a matter or civility.....
    06-09-12 12:52 PM
  21. Flexin's Avatar
    Here's an analogy, and and it's kind of like this. Let's say I'm an electrical contractor. You see my ad on Craigslist and call me because it's winter, your heat doesn't work as well as it should, and you would like it fixed. I take your credit card info, charge you for a service call, and dispatch one of my "best" guys. He shows up, does some work, and leaves before you're home from running a fast errand. You come home, and now your heat doesn't work at all. You call me. I tell you, look I didn't do the work myself so I really have no idea what the technician did. Here's his number, give him a call and work it out with him. You tell me the technician left his number on a piece of paper, you already called him, it was noisy when the call connected, neither one of you could hear each other, and it sounded like he was in a bar. You called him back again and left a message, but the technician isn't returning your call. I keep telling you to call him, and he obviously thinks it's his bosses problem, because he's off now. Meanwhile you're home, cold, with no heat. What would you do? Just let it ride? Or would you get on my case and demand the money back? (After all, you need it to pay someone else to fix the problem my guy made worse.)
    The way I see it, app world is Craigslist in all of that. App World just connects the buyer to the seller. App world does more by collecting the money. If you talked to a person from the one doing the work and he doesn't finish then it is his bosses problem. App World is not the theme developers boss.

    Maybe there was a problem downloading the theme. If thats the case then it wasn't the problem of the developer. I'm not sure if you tried hard enough to get it to work. I'm not sure, but at the end of the day if the product doesn't work and can't be made to work then you deserve your money back. But App world and the developer shouldn't get a bad name for it because they were not giving a chance to fix the issue. (I know you didn't say anything bad about AW, that part was just a general statement).

    If the developer didn't reply to you at all in a week then that is a problem also.

    James
    06-09-12 12:57 PM
  22. Vijik's Avatar
    Your issue, which is a common issue, was with App World- NOT the theme. You can't just go around in life doing chargebacks. How would you feel if one of the customers you did electrical work for filed a chargeback after you did the work?
    So, App World fails to serve the code you as developer have put on it's server, then customer calls your Theme crap and thanks App World/RIM?
    06-09-12 01:07 PM
  23. T
    I understand what a labor of love is. I have a small poetry website (it's not monetized like CrackBerry), and it's free to join for those who follow the rules. No one pays me; I pay for it. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave, and his admission fee ($0.00) will be refunded at the door. So I understand completely the difference between a free app and a paid one. I've downloaded a bunch of free ones and ended up deleteing them for various reasons. Do I think someone owes me reparations for my time spent deleting free apps and rebooting my BlackBerry? Of course not, that's ridiculous. I have one theme I got for free (it's not free any more), and it's terrific. I'm grateful to whoever shared that one. But as for paying for things that aren't up to par or don't even work, no, I'm done doing that. I don't care if it's a $5 breakfast sandwich or some croissant that's bad. If it's not good, the vendor is getting it back. And if he doesn't have any replacements that are good, I want my money back. The amount doesn't matter; the principle is the same. If I come to your house and only charge you $5 to put up a light (because I like you and think I'm doing you a favor), and the light shocks someone in your household because I didn't do it right, is it okay because I only charged you $5? I could tell you, "Hey ask nicely, and I'll make this right. You should be polite to me." No big deal, right? You only paid $5. No, it's not all right. Similarly, app developers should adopt and maintain standards of professionalism and not have this attitude of "I didn't like the tone of his email so I won't be very enthusiastic about fixing his problem." Someone mentioned it being too much of a hassle to chase a piddly amount of money. For me, I'm too busy, and it's too much of a hassle, to kiss and app developer's a$$ and try to get him to "work with me" to fix the defective product I paid for. If it doesn't work, I'll get my money back and move on.
    06-09-12 01:17 PM
  24. reeneebob's Avatar
    I recently took money back from a developer whose app didn't work. See my UPDATE in this topic:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-buyer-727671/

    I won't be kissing any developers a$$es when their crap doesn't work.
    Annnnd ding ding ding, a case study in how not to treat developers. If you respond with the tone you use frequently on this board, no developer is paid enough to deal with you.


    I got blisters on me fingers! from using Tapatalk.
    Last edited by reeneebob; 06-09-12 at 01:32 PM.
    06-09-12 01:28 PM
  25. T
    The way I see it, app world is Craigslist in all of that. App World just connects the buyer to the seller. App world does more by collecting the money. If you talked to a person from the one doing the work and he doesn't finish then it is his bosses problem. App World is not the theme developers boss.

    Maybe there was a problem downloading the theme. If thats the case then it wasn't the problem of the developer. I'm not sure if you tried hard enough to get it to work. I'm not sure, but at the end of the day if the product doesn't work and can't be made to work then you deserve your money back. But App world and the developer shouldn't get a bad name for it because they were not giving a chance to fix the issue. (I know you didn't say anything bad about AW, that part was just a general statement).

    If the developer didn't reply to you at all in a week then that is a problem also.

    James
    App world is more than Craigslist in the example. AppWorld is not just the broker in your example. Even if it's not the contractor in my example, it's a agent with a primary duty to the consumer. I have to have a BlackBerry and even be in an approved country to buy from there. But either way, AppWorld collects the money and makes money off the deal. The charge on the VISA said APPWorld. It didn't say the developer's name. And AppWorld's relationship with the developer is really none of my concern. No matter what, from my perspective AppWorld is accountable to me. Apparently RIM agreed, because it issued the refund. I'm done getting in between people's squabbles, and this one appears to be a problem between RIM/AppWorld and developers in general that each seems to be trying to lump onto the consumer, to con the consumer into thinking it's his fault and nothing practical can be done. Either "work with" (i.e. chase) the developer or eat the cost. Ultimately, it's not. I've proved something can be done. I got the money back, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Why should it matter to me how developers feel about that?
    06-09-12 01:30 PM
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