05-03-10 01:14 PM
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  1. zevinzion's Avatar
    OK, before the problem, just some background:

    * BB 9700
    * BIS, GMAIL integrated e-mail (not the GMAIL app)

    Here's the problem:

    On my PC I have subfolder within my Inbox. When I move messages from my Inbox to one of the subfolders, the following happens on my 9700:

    1) The change will be reflected in my GMAIL Inbox on the 9700.
    2) The change is not reflected in the main Inbox on the 9700 which also has e mails from other accounts. It's like they are just stuck there - not going anywhere.

    I tried deleting them from the main inbox on the 9700, but I found that that only deleted the e mails from the subfolder on the PC. When I removed those messages from the trash on the PC and put them back into the subfolder, the messages returned to my main Inbox folder on the 9700.

    Is there a way to have both my PC and BB GMAIL Inboxes on the same page here?

    Thanks for the help.
    04-26-10 02:01 AM
  2. zevinzion's Avatar
    Update:

    I tried deleting and then re-installing my Gmail account on the BB (on my carrier's BIS server site), but the messages that I had moved to my subfolder on the PC have remained in the main BB inbox.
    04-26-10 02:07 AM
  3. Billabong81's Avatar
    There is only 1-way sync with gmail at the moment. Changes you make from your PC will not be reflected on your 9700. This issue has apparently been fixed by RIM and is being slowly rolled out throughout the spring. So hopefully by June it will work correctly!
    04-26-10 04:30 AM
  4. zevinzion's Avatar
    Right. That I know, but why is it that the GMail inbox on the blackberry updates - when something is removed from the inbox on the PC, it eventually is removed from the GMail inbox on the BB, as well.

    The problem is only with the main Inbox on the BB, where all mail, for all accounts, can be found - which, for whatever reason, will not remove e-mails that are no longer found in the inbox on the PC.

    If the GMail inbox on the BB can update itself - once messages are removed - why can't the main inbox on the BB do the same?
    04-26-10 05:01 AM
  5. cavingjan's Avatar
    It could be GMail's non standard IMAP system. Their label system allows for messages to appear in multiple folders. The Deleted folder seems to be the only thing that is standard.
    04-26-10 08:01 AM
  6. zevinzion's Avatar
    So, is there anything that can be done as a workaround?
    04-26-10 08:05 AM
  7. jbs-horn's Avatar
    I believe the main messages folder is tied to the "All Mail" label on gmail. You can demonstrate this by archiving a message using the gmail plugin. It will disappear from the gmail folder on your phone and from the Inbox on the desktop. It will remain in "All Mail" on the desktop and your main messages folder on the BlackBerry.

    If you delete a message from either the desktop or the BlackBerry, it will disappear from the the Blackberry altogether and will not appear in the Inbox or All Mail labels on gmail. It will be in the "Trash" folder/label on gmail. If you restore it to the Inbox or to any other label on gmail, it will reappear in All Mail and in your Messages folder on the Blackberry.

    The only workaround I can think of is to set up the BIS integration with gmail as a generic IMAP account rather than as a gmail account. You can do this by giving it a dummy address when you set it up. When BIS complains that it can't set up the account, select the option to provide the settings manually. Then you can specify your user id, password, imap.gmail.com as the server, and so forth.

    Set up this way you will lose the functionality of the gmail plugin (labels, archiving, etc.), but you will gain the behavior you want. Deleting a message on the phone will remove the message from the Inbox on gmail and label it "IMAP/Trash" on gmail. IMAP/Trash is just another label and will not remove the message from All Mail. You can remove the IMAP/Trash label in gmail and it will still be archived in All Mail. If you archive a message on gmail, it will eventually be removed from the BlackBerry. All changes in the Messages folder will be reflected in the gmail folder on the BlackBerry and vice-versa.
    04-26-10 10:24 AM
  8. zevinzion's Avatar
    I believe the main messages folder is tied to the "All Mail" label on gmail. You can demonstrate this by archiving a message using the gmail plugin. It will disappear from the gmail folder on your phone and from the Inbox on the desktop. It will remain in "All Mail" on the desktop and your main messages folder on the BlackBerry.

    If you delete a message from either the desktop or the BlackBerry, it will disappear from the the Blackberry altogether and will not appear in the Inbox or All Mail labels on gmail. It will be in the "Trash" folder/label on gmail. If you restore it to the Inbox or to any other label on gmail, it will reappear in All Mail and in your Messages folder on the Blackberry.

    The only workaround I can think of is to set up the BIS integration with gmail as a generic IMAP account rather than as a gmail account. You can do this by giving it a dummy address when you set it up. When BIS complains that it can't set up the account, select the option to provide the settings manually. Then you can specify your user id, password, imap.gmail.com as the server, and so forth.

    Set up this way you will lose the functionality of the gmail plugin (labels, archiving, etc.), but you will gain the behavior you want. Deleting a message on the phone will remove the message from the Inbox on gmail and label it "IMAP/Trash" on gmail. IMAP/Trash is just another label and will not remove the message from All Mail. You can remove the IMAP/Trash label in gmail and it will still be archived in All Mail. If you archive a message on gmail, it will eventually be removed from the BlackBerry. All changes in the Messages folder will be reflected in the gmail folder on the BlackBerry and vice-versa.
    OK, I set it up as you suggested, but I am still a bit unclear how GMail messages from the main ibox of my folder are now going to disappear once they have been archived into a subfolder on the PC...
    04-28-10 03:27 AM
  9. FutureGoldenGlover's Avatar
    There is only 1-way sync with gmail at the moment. Changes you make from your PC will not be reflected on your 9700. This issue has apparently been fixed by RIM and is being slowly rolled out throughout the spring. So hopefully by June it will work correctly!

    This is what i heard as well
    04-28-10 03:43 AM
  10. zevinzion's Avatar
    Right, I heard the same, but in the meantime, trying to find a workaround...
    04-28-10 03:45 AM
  11. apbthe3's Avatar
    jbs-horn is 100% correct. The problem is that the GMail plugin only affects the mail folder, not the messages folder. When you archive a message from the GMail account folder, it just removes the label "Inbox," so it won't show up when you open the mail folder until you filter it to show all mail. The problem is that, since the message folder doesn't use the plugin, it doesn't see the labels so it just shows all of the mail that is on the phone.

    The only two options I know of are to either remove the GMail account from the message folder (only works in 5.0 and doesn't really solve your problem, just hides it) or to not use the GMail plugin. If you don't use the plugin, you lose the ability to label, star, or look at archived messages, but your mail folder and the messages folder will match and you can archive messages (if you set it up properly) by just deleting the message from your phone.

    I have tried using the GMail plugin twice now for several weeks each time, but it just doesn't work the way I wish it would (because of the same issues you have). I just have it set up through IMAP and have the GMail app on my phone for times when I want to access my old mail. This seems to be the best option for me.

    I really doubt that the 2-way sync will fix this when it rolls out because it's not a sync issue, it's a phone software issue.
    04-28-10 09:06 AM
  12. zevinzion's Avatar
    How does one disable the GMail plug-in?

    I am using the most up-to-date OS on the 9700.

    Also, I tried deleting the GMail account from my phone - and while the GMail inbox on the phone is removed, the GMail messages in the all mail inbox remain.

    Even after disabling the GMail plug-in, and setting up the GMail account as you described (which I think I have already done), will it remove the old messages that are currently in the main inbox on the phone (and which have already been archived out of the inbox into a subfolder from my GMail account on the PC)?

    Thanks.
    04-28-10 09:37 AM
  13. jbs-horn's Avatar
    OK, I set it up as you suggested, but I am still a bit unclear how GMail messages from the main ibox of my folder are now going to disappear once they have been archived into a subfolder on the PC...
    It is the difference in how the standard BlackBerry IMAP setup works from the way the BlackBerry Gmail IMAP setup works. With the generic IMAP setup BIS will reconcile with the Inbox. "All Mail" has no special significance because it is not part of the IMAP specification. With the special Gmail setup, BIS reconciles with "All Mail." So with the generic IMAP setup, when a message is moved from the Inbox to a folder, BIS will see it as having been removed and will (eventually) remove it from your BlackBerry folder. It might take hours, but it will happen. It is counterintuitive to the typical OCD BlackBerry user (I want it and I want it NOW) but to test it you have to force yourself to not delete messages from the BlackBerry for a day or so.

    With the Gmail setup, as long as a message is in "All Mail," it will remain in your main Messages folder. The only way to get rid of it is delete it either from the main messages folder, which will delete it from the Gmail Inbox AND "All Mail," or to delete it from Gmail rather than archiving it.

    This is a very clunky way to handle e-mail and in my opinion the biggest weakness of the BlackBerry under BIS. It is especially bad if you use a stand-alone e-mail client such as Outlook to handle Gmail because deleting a Gmail message on Outlook only archives it on Gmail. To delete a message from Gmail using Outlook, you must move the message to the Gmail "Trash" folder.

    BES is an entirely different proposition.
    04-28-10 09:42 AM
  14. zevinzion's Avatar
    It is the difference in how the standard BlackBerry IMAP setup works from the way the BlackBerry Gmail IMAP setup works. With the generic IMAP setup BIS will reconcile with the Inbox. "All Mail" has no special significance because it is not part of the IMAP specification. With the special Gmail setup, BIS reconciles with "All Mail." So with the generic IMAP setup, when a message is moved from the Inbox to a folder, BIS will see it as having been removed and will (eventually) remove it from your BlackBerry folder. It might take hours, but it will happen. It is counterintuitive to the typical OCD BlackBerry user (I want it and I want it NOW) but to test it you have to force yourself to not delete messages from the BlackBerry for a day or so.

    With the Gmail setup, as long as a message is in "All Mail," it will remain in your main Messages folder. The only way to get rid of it is delete it either from the main messages folder, which will delete it from the Gmail Inbox AND "All Mail," or to delete it from Gmail rather than archiving it.

    This is a very clunky way to handle e-mail and in my opinion the biggest weakness of the BlackBerry under BIS. It is especially bad if you use a stand-alone e-mail client such as Outlook to handle Gmail because deleting a Gmail message on Outlook only archives it on Gmail. To delete a message from Gmail using Outlook, you must move the message to the Gmail "Trash" folder.

    BES is an entirely different proposition.
    OK, so I set it up as you described, but how do i disable the GMail plug-in so that I can get things synchronized (somewhat)?
    04-28-10 09:46 AM
  15. apbthe3's Avatar
    To use straight IMAP and not the GMail Plugin:

    1. Delete your GMail account from BIS.
    2. Go into your GMail account, under Labs, and enable "Advanced IMAP". Then go under settings, Forwarding & POP/IMAP, and choose disable pop, enable IMAP, do not expunge messages, archive message when expunged. Then go to labels and check "Show in IMAP" for everything but trash.
    3. From BIS, add the email address test@test.com with whatever password you want. It'll fail (obviously) and ask you to confirm your info. Click on the link at the top for manually entering settings and enter your gmail address for your username, your password, and imap.gmail.com for the imap server. Enable sync deleted items.
    4. In the phone email settings, set it to delete items on server and handheld.

    Now your messages will get delivered to your phone like any other e-mail address (unthreaded and without any of the options to add star, set labels, etc). If you delete them off of your phone, they will get archived in gmail. I could be mistaken, but if you archive messages from your gmail account, they do seem to disappear off of your phone eventually (hours later).

    I don't know if your old messages will get deleted from the Messages folder. Probably not. You can always go through and delete them if it bothers you.
    04-28-10 10:15 AM
  16. zevinzion's Avatar
    If you delete them off of your phone, they will get archived in gmail. I could be mistaken, but if you archive messages from your gmail account, they do seem to disappear off of your phone eventually (hours later).

    I don't know if your old messages will get deleted from the Messages folder. Probably not. You can always go through and delete them if it bothers you.
    This is super helpful.

    Questions:

    1) What do you mean when you say that if I delete a message off my phone it will be archived in GMail? If I delete a GMail message on my phone, shouldn't it go in to the trash folder of my GMail account as opposed to it being archived?

    2) Similarly, if I delete a message from my phone (or move it to the subfolder) that should (eventually) be reflected on the phone, right?

    3) If I delete GMail messages from the main inbox on the BB - ones that have already been placed into subfolders on the PC- will deleting them from the phone lead to their deletion from the PC subfolder?

    Thanks for all the help.
    04-28-10 10:41 AM
  17. zevinzion's Avatar
    To clarify, question #2 should read:

    Similarly, if I delete a message from my Gmail inbox (PC) or move it to a subfolder (PC), that should eventually be reflected on the main inbox on the phone, right?
    04-28-10 10:45 AM
  18. apbthe3's Avatar
    1. Try it on a non-critical message to make sure you set it up properly, but what happens is when you delete a message on your phone, it will try to move it into the trash folder, but since you unchecked the "show in IMAP" box for the trash in GMail, it can't see that folder so it just disappears. Once it disappears from IMAP, it gets archived because that's what you told it to do when it gets removed from the last visible IMAP folder. It sounds strange but it works, I promise

    2. Supposedly there is no 2-way sync and I have never really paid that close attention to it, but it does seem that messages moved from your GMail inbox will eventually (hours and hours later) disappear from your phone. Either that or I am way better at keeping my GMail inbox and my phone inbox in sync than I give myself credit for....

    3. All deleting them from your phone does is archive them. If they are already archived and you delete them from your phone, nothing will change in your GMail account.
    04-28-10 10:54 AM
  19. zevinzion's Avatar
    1. Try it on a non-critical message to make sure you set it up properly, but what happens is when you delete a message on your phone, it will try to move it into the trash folder, but since you unchecked the "show in IMAP" box for the trash in GMail, it can't see that folder so it just disappears. Once it disappears from IMAP, it gets archived because that's what you told it to do when it gets removed from the last visible IMAP folder. It sounds strange but it works, I promise
    But, if I want the messages I delete on my phone to actually get deleted, why not have the trash folder show in IMAP and have all the deleted messages go there instead of being archived?
    04-28-10 10:57 AM
  20. MrObvious's Avatar
    To use straight IMAP and not the GMail Plugin:

    1. Delete your GMail account from BIS.
    2. Go into your GMail account, under Labs, and enable "Advanced IMAP". Then go under settings, Forwarding & POP/IMAP, and choose disable pop, enable IMAP, do not expunge messages, archive message when expunged. Then go to labels and check "Show in IMAP" for everything but trash.
    3. From BIS, add the email address test@test.com with whatever password you want. It'll fail (obviously) and ask you to confirm your info. Click on the link at the top for manually entering settings and enter your gmail address for your username, your password, and imap.gmail.com for the imap server. Enable sync deleted items.
    4. In the phone email settings, set it to delete items on server and handheld.

    Now your messages will get delivered to your phone like any other e-mail address (unthreaded and without any of the options to add star, set labels, etc). If you delete them off of your phone, they will get archived in gmail. I could be mistaken, but if you archive messages from your gmail account, they do seem to disappear off of your phone eventually (hours later).

    I don't know if your old messages will get deleted from the Messages folder. Probably not. You can always go through and delete them if it bothers you.
    I'll try this! Thanks.
    04-28-10 11:52 AM
  21. Rolandh's Avatar
    An easy work around that doesn't involve manually setting up the Gmail account, set the Gmail account up in BIS as normal, but when you get the email with the link to download the Enhanced Gmail plugin just delete the email without installing the plugin, your Gmail account will be treated like a normal email folder and will have the normal Precision outlined envelope with the outlined globe instead of the white envelope with the blue stamp and coloured globe that you get when you have got the Gmail plugin installed and use the Gmail App to archive your mail, you are then safe to delete the messages out of the Gmail folder and the Messages folder and it won't effect your Gmail messages, you can also do the same with the Gmail plugin installed.

    Roland

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
    04-28-10 03:22 PM
  22. apbthe3's Avatar
    But, if I want the messages I delete on my phone to actually get deleted, why not have the trash folder show in IMAP and have all the deleted messages go there instead of being archived?
    You could follow the same directions, except in the GMail IMAP setting choose "move to trash" instead of archive. You'll still need to keep the trash hidden for it to work, though. If you do this, you won't be able to archive anything from your phone, though. Anything you want to keep will have to stay on your phone forever and in your inbox until you archive them from your computer.
    04-28-10 06:11 PM
  23. apbthe3's Avatar
    An easy work around that doesn't involve manually setting up the Gmail account, set the Gmail account up in BIS as normal, but when you get the email with the link to download the Enhanced Gmail plugin just delete the email without installing the plugin, your Gmail account will be treated like a normal email folder and will have the normal Precision outlined envelope with the outlined globe instead of the white envelope with the blue stamp and coloured globe that you get when you have got the Gmail plugin installed and use the Gmail App to archive your mail, you are then safe to delete the messages out of the Gmail folder and the Messages folder and it won't effect your Gmail messages, you can also do the same with the Gmail plugin installed.

    Roland

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
    You are correct Roland, but this doesn't work in 5.0 because it is preloaded on the phone. I also believe that it uses POP3 unless you manually enter the info when you register the account, which would keep you from archiving your messages from your phone (if that's something you want to do).
    04-28-10 06:20 PM
  24. zevinzion's Avatar
    You could follow the same directions, except in the GMail IMAP setting choose "move to trash" instead of archive. You'll still need to keep the trash hidden for it to work, though. If you do this, you won't be able to archive anything from your phone, though. Anything you want to keep will have to stay on your phone forever and in your inbox until you archive them from your computer.
    That's not really an issue for me. I'm not a big fan of archiving. I either move a message from my Inbox to a subfolder, keep it in the inbox or delete it. So, having anything deleted from the phone moved directly to trash should be fine.

    Any message I want ot go in to a subfolder I can move straight from the PC, and with your solution, the message will also come off the phone, so I should be all set, if I am not mistaken.

    Thanks for all your help.
    04-29-10 12:46 AM
  25. apbthe3's Avatar
    Any message I want ot go in to a subfolder I can move straight from the PC, and with your solution, the message will also come off the phone, so I should be all set, if I am not mistaken.
    Because I never really tested it before, I archived a few e-mails from my computer to see if they would disappear off of my phone and they did not, which leads me to believe that either 1) I was wrong, 2) something changed, or 3) I didn't wait long enough. My hunch is #1, but other people have reported archived messages disappearing off of their phone after a long period of time, so I don't know what to tell you I guess. Good luck!
    04-29-10 12:11 PM
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