1. mark-d's Avatar
    I've written my thoughts on this in a blog on my website, I'd be interested to read others thoughts on my take.
    With the recent news that Seesmic are ending their support for the Blackberry platform at the end of the month this lead me to think; are Blackberry being let down by third party app developers?
    Read the full blog
    DrewDT likes this.
    06-23-11 08:02 AM
  2. DrewDT's Avatar
    Without question developer support is one of the biggest problems BlackBerry has going forward in the consumer market. It is the biggest issue I have and has caused me to be 50/50 on whether or not I will stay BlackBerry in the future. Everywhere I look in almost every interest I have I see advertising that there is an app available for iPhone and Android and rarely if ever for BlackBerry. This makes BlackBerrys a less efficient tool for me overall in my day to day life. The argument that BB's are communication devices while the other platforms are for entertainment doesn't wash with me. The other platforms communicate just as effectively for my uses as a BB.
    I started a thread a few days ago speaking to the developer support frustration and other things that have me on the fence as a consumer:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/f2/what...ill-bb-623812/
    06-23-11 08:40 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Without question developer support is one of the biggest problems BlackBerry has going forward in the consumer market. It is the biggest issue I have and has caused me to be 50/50 on whether or not I will stay BlackBerry in the future. Everywhere I look in almost every interest I have I see advertising that there is an app available for iPhone and Android and rarely if ever for BlackBerry. This makes BlackBerrys a less efficient tool for me overall in my day to day life. The argument that BB's are communication devices while the other platforms are for entertainment doesn't wash with me. The other platforms communicate just as effectively for my uses as a BB.
    I started a thread a few days ago speaking to the developer support frustration and other things that have me on the fence as a consumer:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/f2/what...ill-bb-623812/
    It's kinda strange more developers don't concentrate on the BB platform since Appworld generates far more cash then the Android market.
    Sure, no doubt it's harder to develop for BB but the rewards could be bigger too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-23-11 09:06 AM
  4. ADGrant's Avatar
    I've written my thoughts on this in a blog on my website, I'd be interested to read others thoughts on my take.


    Read the full blog
    The problem is third party developers do not owe BB anything including their support. It's up to RIM to make it worth their while. If they cannot, then the BB will fail as an app platform.

    Given, RIM has already announced they plan to replace BB OS in a year or two, I would expect third party app development to fall off rapidly. Nokia's recent announcements will have a similar effect for Symbian and Meego.
    06-23-11 09:09 AM
  5. pmccartney's Avatar
    Good blogging Mark. I wish I knew the answer to the question. Hopefully with the implementation of QNX (on the phones) it will be a moot point and all the App developers will want to jump back on board.
    06-23-11 09:16 AM
  6. Xopher's Avatar
    BlackBerry has always been a thorn in the developers side. When I'm developing apps, I have to compile for different OS versions (4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 6.0, and now 7.0). 4.7 added touch capabilities (Storm), 5.0 added database features, and so on. But the main phone that was still being sold up through last year was the 83xx, which ran 4.3 (upgradeable to 4.5). If you only developed for current devices, you're leaving a large portion of the BB market out.

    Once you get above 4.6, you start having lots more different screen resolutions. 320x240, 480x320, 480x360, horizontal, vertical. Now with BB7, we're getting 640x480 and 800x480. Now you have to test for different resolutions on all different screen sizes.

    All current devices also have different processors based on radio. GSM uses the Marvel chipset while CDMA uses Qualcomm. There isn't a huge difference as far as the developer is concerned, but CDMA Storms have OpenGL while the GSM Storms don't (because of the processor). GSM devices can play and record at the same time (so there are finally some VOIP apps) but the CDMA chipset can't. GSM chips can process sounds, so there are guitar tuners for GSM devices - the chipset that RIM uses for CDMA can't. It can be quite frustrating when an app designed for a device, like the Curve 8320 won't work on the 8330.

    A perfect example is an app that came out about two years ago. It even made it onto the main Crackberry page. It would only work on GSM devices. There were tons of complaints that the app wouldn't work on the Curve 8330. Turns out the company was based in Germany, so they only had access to the GSM device.

    That means you have to have multiple devices for testing. Sure, simulators can be good for testing while coding, but you need actual devices to make sure the app works across different models, carriers, and so on. Unless you are a big company and RIM gives you devices as part of your Alliance membership, you have to buy devices. For a small shop, that can get quite expensive quickly. Curve, Storm, Pearl, Style, Tour, Bold, Torch.... Then you may need to have BIS plans for different networks for testing as well.... It can end up costing several thousands of dollars to get set up for development.

    If you look at developing for iOS, you pretty much just need one device. It is a lot easier for someone to get into developing for iOS with a lot less expense. With Android, you still need multiple devices for testing, but not to the extent that you do with BlackBerry.

    Playbook development is almost in the same boat. Sure, you only need on Playbook, but the development tools from Adobe are $700. If you are used to using the free development platforms (like Eclipse) for BlackBerry development, it's a pretty big chunk to dole out for one developing for one device.

    As I go to update apps, I have to ask myself if it is worth including BB7 devices. How long with BB7 actually be used? If QNX is coming next year, does that mean the new devices coming out this summer will only be on the market for 9 months? That's not an issue with Android, which has new devices hitting the market just about every week (still using the same couple of versions of Android). Do I spend another grand on BB7 devices just to support something that might not be around for long? That's the question I'm going through right now.
    ridesno159, mobibiz, KAPS and 5 others like this.
    06-23-11 10:05 PM
  7. mobibiz's Avatar
    Kudos Xopher for this highly intriguing thread, the future of development for Blackberries is currently bleak, with the onset of the new OS that RIM is currently going to launch and the ONX platform, we have absolutely no idea how would it work and perhaps we might have to go back to formula and redesign the whole API’s. It’s tough developing for the Blackberries but sure it’s fun.
    06-24-11 01:07 AM
  8. Xopher's Avatar
    I agree - I enjoy developing for BlackBerry. Even with all its quirks.

    One of the things to think about. If you are developing for iPhone, with an investment of about $300 to develop and test an application, if you sold it in their App Store for $.99, you would need to sell about 450 copies to recoup your investment. If you add an iPad, you'll need another 750 copies before you start seeing a profit.

    On BlackBerry, you could need six or seven devices for testing, plus BIS accounts for connectivity. If you sell your app for $.99, you would need to sell 4400 (almost ten times as many) to recoup your investment. Bump up the price to $1.99 and you can cut it down to 2200 copies. Add a playbook into the mix, plus Adobe development tools, and you could be adding another 1900 copies before you see any profit.

    How easy is it to convince a developer that they may have to invest $3k-$5k (excluding labor) while needing over 6k sales before making a profit when developing for iOS could mean less than $1500 in hardware and 1/4 the sales needed before seeing a profit? No wonder developers charge more for BB apps.

    Kudos to those developers who stick with BB.
    06-24-11 06:04 PM
  9. CGI's Avatar
    That was well laid out, Xopher.

    RIM has made it very difficult for developers to make money... It's that simple. That's why they focus elsewhere.
    06-24-11 06:51 PM
  10. Xerxes10's Avatar
    Thanks developers, for explaining to BB users why there's such a difference in app availability and price between the platforms. Now it makes sense! I don't blame you for investing time and $ in IOS or Android where you'll be more likely to make your money back. Maybe someday RIM will pare it down to 3 form factors all on QNX and it will be attractive for developers again.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-24-11 11:50 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BlackBerry has always been a thorn in the developers side. When I'm developing apps, I have to compile for different OS versions (4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 6.0, and now 7.0). 4.7 added touch capabilities (Storm), 5.0 added database features, and so on. But the main phone that was still being sold up through last year was the 83xx, which ran 4.3 (upgradeable to 4.5). If you only developed for current devices, you're leaving a large portion of the BB market out.

    Once you get above 4.6, you start having lots more different screen resolutions. 320x240, 480x320, 480x360, horizontal, vertical. Now with BB7, we're getting 640x480 and 800x480. Now you have to test for different resolutions on all different screen sizes.

    All current devices also have different processors based on radio. GSM uses the Marvel chipset while CDMA uses Qualcomm. There isn't a huge difference as far as the developer is concerned, but CDMA Storms have OpenGL while the GSM Storms don't (because of the processor). GSM devices can play and record at the same time (so there are finally some VOIP apps) but the CDMA chipset can't. GSM chips can process sounds, so there are guitar tuners for GSM devices - the chipset that RIM uses for CDMA can't. It can be quite frustrating when an app designed for a device, like the Curve 8320 won't work on the 8330.

    A perfect example is an app that came out about two years ago. It even made it onto the main Crackberry page. It would only work on GSM devices. There were tons of complaints that the app wouldn't work on the Curve 8330. Turns out the company was based in Germany, so they only had access to the GSM device.

    That means you have to have multiple devices for testing. Sure, simulators can be good for testing while coding, but you need actual devices to make sure the app works across different models, carriers, and so on. Unless you are a big company and RIM gives you devices as part of your Alliance membership, you have to buy devices. For a small shop, that can get quite expensive quickly. Curve, Storm, Pearl, Style, Tour, Bold, Torch.... Then you may need to have BIS plans for different networks for testing as well.... It can end up costing several thousands of dollars to get set up for development.

    If you look at developing for iOS, you pretty much just need one device. It is a lot easier for someone to get into developing for iOS with a lot less expense. With Android, you still need multiple devices for testing, but not to the extent that you do with BlackBerry.

    Playbook development is almost in the same boat. Sure, you only need on Playbook, but the development tools from Adobe are $700. If you are used to using the free development platforms (like Eclipse) for BlackBerry development, it's a pretty big chunk to dole out for one developing for one device.

    As I go to update apps, I have to ask myself if it is worth including BB7 devices. How long with BB7 actually be used? If QNX is coming next year, does that mean the new devices coming out this summer will only be on the market for 9 months? That's not an issue with Android, which has new devices hitting the market just about every week (still using the same couple of versions of Android). Do I spend another grand on BB7 devices just to support something that might not be around for long? That's the question I'm going through right now.
    Small correction, both cdma and gsm Storms have Open GL, they both use qualcom proccesors and they both can work on the other's network.

    I was playing Need for Speed on my Storm2 from Vodafone uk.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-25-11 03:29 AM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    a 9500 or 9520 cant be used on VZW
    06-25-11 04:38 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    a 9500 or 9520 cant be used on VZW
    On the outer case at the bottom of the 9520 it was written "qualcom cdma"
    I think it can roam to cdma but not used as a cdma phone.
    Either way, it had Open GL.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-25-11 04:47 AM
  14. mark-d's Avatar
    Thanks for the insight into this huge issue for RIM.

    From what's been written by developers on this thread it seems that the problem is in fact one of RIMs own making by having so many devices with so many OS and so many form factors.

    I can fully appreciate why developing for BB is unattractive in comparison to iPhone and Android and this is something that BB will have to address if they want to continue to eat into the consumer market.

    Looking simply it does seem strange that each carrier who has the 9800 can have a different official OS for it, each carrier who has the 9780 can have a different OS for that phone to given the monetary and time investment this then inflincts onto developers.

    It's an issue that does need to be addressed so developing for BB becomes a more attractive proposition if Blackberry really do want to continue as a consumer phone developer in addition to a business phone developer.
    06-25-11 06:14 AM
  15. CGI's Avatar

    Looking simply it does seem strange that each carrier who has the 9800 can have a different official OS for it, each carrier who has the 9780 can have a different OS for that phone
    Why is this? Other phone manufacturers don't have this problem, do they?
    06-25-11 08:52 AM
  16. mark-d's Avatar
    Why is this? Other phone manufacturers don't have this problem, do they?
    It's just the way RIM does things. They are constantly working on OS upgrades and bug fixes, most are usually just that and rarely add functionality. As each OS is finalised it's offered to carriers and they then test the OS with a view to ratifying that OS for their customers.

    Apple on the other hand work on iOS? and when it's ready it's then released to the public. Android is similar in that they work on Android x, give it a food related name and when it's ready it's pushed to the public. The slight difference with Android is that they cater for many different handsets, not each handset can run each successive version of Android.

    In that respect Apple with it's tiny and narrow phone range is in the driving seat when it comes to OS releases. Blackberry's way of having countless different OS across their phone line does make it more difficult for app developers.
    danimalchil likes this.
    06-25-11 10:47 AM
  17. CGI's Avatar
    Blackberry's way of having countless different OS across their phone line does make it more difficult for app developers.
    ^This would seem to be an obvious problem that RIM should develop a strategy for. i.e. pair down the device options to 2. Focus on making less into more!
    06-25-11 11:38 AM
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