[BB Musketeers]

Ouch! Looks like there are a lot of PO'd beta testers posting on the blog and its not good. One other thing that hasn't been thoroughly discussed here is the importance of PR. I mentioned my experience with Fixmo tools before. They initially gave me the app for free for being a beta tester. When they came out with v.2, I had trouble loading the code for the upgrade price (which I was more than willing to pay). I contacted them and they elected to give me the upgrade as a gift as well. I even tried to pay them, but they wouldn't take it. Now I am one of their best spokes people. Great app, great developers.

Now I personally don't believe that just because one is a beta tester that they should get the app for free. For example in this case, there were a multitude of people who downloaded the app and started using it. However, the ones that actually actively participated in giving consistent feedback here in the forum and via direct contact was likely 50 or less. Those people collaborated to bring this app to market, by risking bricking their devices, etc. While they don't necessarily need to get the app free, an amount that was greatly reduced over what anyone else would be offered would've been appropriate.

All this is a separate issue from the whole price point discussion.

[BB Musketeers]

I paid for the app. At first I thought about dropping the mod card, plus reminding the wakeful folks how helpful my beta test reports have been. I've been in direct contact with the head programmer. But then I thought about it, they DO have on going server costs, and good app development DOES have costs, and 7.50 is NOT that much money in the grand scheme of things, so why not pay?

Keep up the good work Patrick and gang!

I have the premium version of Pageonce's Personal Assistant...also a server based app, that I purchased for $6.99. I had been using the free version and decided I liked the app so much that I both wanted to reward the developer with some earned compensation and wanted the extra functionality. That app offers significantly more than Wakeful. Furthermore, the price has now been dropped to free for a limited time to get more invested users. That became a must-have app for me. Wakeful is a luxury app in my opinion...and now it has a luxury price.

[JMarkyBB]

Will the discount code still be usable on Monday, Payday?


I cant afford it till then


Great app, Bit pricey, but if it supports Wakeful, then I'm all for it


I will be peeved if we have major updates charges though.

[piwh1000]

Will the discount code still be usable on Monday, Payday?


I cant afford it till then


Great app, Bit pricey, but if it supports Wakeful, then I'm all for it


I will be peeved if we have major updates charges though.

Coupon code will be valid for the next week.

[bklyneddie]

I have no problem with the price, I was going to buy the program
I soon as I could (waiting for payday). As long as the upgrades
will be free to upgrade (I paid for a program & then the company
put out a upgrade and wanted more money, I deleted that program
and refuse to buy anymore programs from that company!)

So yesterday I download the update after seeming a post about the update and there was a fix within the update. I did the update, set the alarm (no didn't test it after the update). Well what a shock I got this morning when it went off this morning, saying thank you for trying wakeful and your trail is over!!!!
Could have at least let us try out the update.

Also (think someone else said something about it) we get 50% off for
beta testing it, but yet in the email it said to tell/give others the code
to also get the 50% off. But I don't think that was a good idea.
We helped (beta test) get the program up and working
correctly, so why should someone who didn't help
also get it for the same price for doing nothing?

[elmejor1009]

Dude. No point in arguing the point about the price. The app is good. They did a good job with it. They think its worth the money. Don't nickel and dime them. The choice is made. You either buy "Jarvis" or just move on. No need to keep bashing the thread

Great app. Really really cool. I wish you luck and success with "Jarvis".

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ba_hamilton]

I paid for the app. At first I thought about dropping the mod card, plus reminding the wakeful folks how helpful my beta test reports have been. I've been in direct contact with the head programmer. But then I thought about it, they DO have on going server costs, and good app development DOES have costs, and 7.50 is NOT that much money in the grand scheme of things, so why not pay?

Keep up the good work Patrick and gang!

$7.50 - A couple of gallons of gas. And I have to pay for gas upgrades all the time. Couple of times a week at least.

[QuasarSquirrel]

7.50 for Wakeful in its current state is too much, I like the idea of the app, but there's no reason that I can think of that I should invest in what it COULD be SOMEDAY.

For 7.50, I could probably go buy an alarm clock from walmart and tune it to NPR and get more than 3 lines of news.

Furthermore, that price point makes me question how much the developer actually wants their product to succeed, since it will not attract enough new clients to be sustainable. Without a subscription they will have to acquire new customers on a regular basis if their argument of server costs is legit. Makes me think NinjaOtter is looking to cut their losses and cash out.

I'll keep an eye on Wakeful, but it would have gain a mess of new functionality to be worth more than 2.99.

[painfulleap1]

Can we have a rough roadmap of what the future plans are for this app? It will definitely help me decide to purchase.

I'm on the fence right now, but if the future of wakeful is to stay nearly the same as it is now (with only one alarm, limited options of things to get info from, and limited settings in general) With only performance upgrades then I think I sadly might have to pass for now.

However if this app does have a great planned future I'll just on board as soon as I can.


All in all, It does exactly what it's claimed to do. It woke me up each morning telling me the weather and news after a nice greeting. And unlike all other alarms I didn't sleep through it. Nor is it annoying enough that I hit the snooze before I fully wake up.

[smeagle5]

Dude. No point in arguing the point about the price. The app is good. They did a good job with it. They think its worth the money. Don't nickel and dime them. The choice is made. You either buy "Jarvis" or just move on. No need to keep bashing the thread

Great app. Really really cool. I wish you luck and success with "Jarvis".

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Its not nickel and diming them .. its Dollar and 5 dollaring them .... who in their right mind will pay 15 dollar for full price, that is just Outrageous.

I would never pay that much for a generic app, especially one that is not even in app world. Right now, the price (7.49 or 15.00 full) is only targeted to "app-savy" people who follow crackberry or other blogs.

Not bothering to make it available to everyone makes it more expensive to the people who helped you. You should be targeting average users, not the ones that HELPED you.

I am not sure how you chose to price it how you did but look at the comments on here and the main blog... Big Slap in the Face.

[ubersurfer]

I have to agree with the beta testers who feel unappreciated by the public $7.50 introductory price. We helped develop a product and now everyone can cash in on the savings? Doesn't seem quite fair.

The problem that I have with the price is not the amount, but the value. When you get down to it, Wakeful is a novelty item. It does not add any new functionality to a BlackBerry. It takes an existing BlackBerry function, the alarm clock, and allows it to perform in a unique and novel way. I do have apps on my Bold that cost me the same or more as Wakeful, but they perform functions that are not native to the BB OS, which increases their value to me.

In my opinion, a $15 price greatly overvalues the product (Hmm ... I can set my BB alarm to play a sound of my choice, free, or I can pay $15 to have it speak instead of sing -- either way, it still wakes me in the morning and I can change my sound on a whim). I wish the developers luck with their business model.

Recently, Shao-Soft released the BreakingNews program after an extensive, CrackBerry-based beta test. At the time of its release, Shao, the developer, asked the beta testers to send him links to the CrackBerry posts that showed their actual involvement with the testing (as opposed to those who were merely using the beta product). Shao rewarded those testers with a free copy of BreakingNews. This part of the Shao-Soft business model is to be applauded and the Wakeful team would do well to take note of it.

[piwh1000]

Thanks everyone for helping us out on launch date! We were able to make Mobihand's frontpage on best sellers!

[kolonji]

Thanks everyone for helping us out on launch date! We were able to make Mobihand's frontpage on best sellers!

Congrats! Also, as expected< Wakeful worked perfect today.

[DrSavant]

It's interesting how all the recent posts dealing with the price are being ignored by Wakeful.

Patrick, would you care to comment?

[piwh1000]

It's interesting how all the recent posts dealing with the price are being ignored by Wakeful.

Patrick, would you care to comment?

As I previously mentioned, our pricing was based completely off of our survey results. I knew by even charging over $1 that 45% of our all of our beta testers were not going to buy and by charging over $1 it was going to alienate those customers.

The median pricing from our survey results said our customers who would pay for the product would be willing to pay $7. Which has been the case, because we have been selling a bunch of these at that price tag, hence gaining traction on Mobihand best sellers list.

The problem is everyone here is only seeing the negative side of it... People are coming on the forums and posting comments to say they feel its too overpriced... What they aren't seeing are the emails coming into my inbox saying "Wow, $7 that's cheap" or all of the sales we are generating at the pricetag.

A lot of people are also saying that by charging this pricetag, we're going to go out of business cause no one is going to buy. If you look at Mobihand's top grossing applications, very little of them are under $5. By charging a higher pricetag we have less people using the product, which is causes less stress on our server, but is yields the highest return for us to add more features and benefits to those paying customers.

If we focused on those 85% of the customers who said they would pay a $1, we could have sold 10,000 units and made $10,000. Our servers would be maxed out, within one year that money would have been burnt by servers and development staff easily (probably less then 6 months). By charging $2 we would have immediately dropped down to a minimum of 55% of our users buying the product, so we would have sold 6,470 units at $2 and made $12,940. Or if 30% of our audience would pay $7 it would bring the total units to 3529 and revenue at $24,704. Heck, we had 5% say they would be willing to pay over $25, but that would have brought revenue down to $14,705.

These numbers are obviously fictitious, but they show you why and how we made our pricing decision. By charging $7 we knew that 70% or so were not going to be the happiest with the pricetag, but it would give us enough capital to put more developer resources towards making this product better. Even if we would have charged $2, 45% of our users would be complaining about the pricetag...

Our goal isn't to make so much money that we could buy a yacht tomorrow, it's to invest in the product to make it better and potentially make more products. You'll find most developers struggle to make cash from apps!

[andyahs]

Well said and enjoying the app more and more!

[DrSavant]

Now, THIS is an educated response - imo you should have posted this earlier, to alleviate a lot of the concerns going on

I still maintain you would have been a lot more successful launching this at $2.99 (even using your own business case logic), but you've got my $7.50.

As I previously mentioned, our pricing was based completely off of our survey results. I knew by even charging over $1 that 45% of our all of our beta testers were not going to buy and by charging over $1 it was going to alienate those customers.

The median pricing from our survey results said our customers who would pay for the product would be willing to pay $7. Which has been the case, because we have been selling a bunch of these at that price tag, hence gaining traction on Mobihand best sellers list.

The problem is everyone here is only seeing the negative side of it... People are coming on the forums and posting comments to say they feel its too overpriced... What they aren't seeing are the emails coming into my inbox saying "Wow, $7 that's cheap" or all of the sales we are generating at the pricetag.

A lot of people are also saying that by charging this pricetag, we're going to go out of business cause no one is going to buy. If you look at Mobihand's top grossing applications, very little of them are under $5. By charging a higher pricetag we have less people using the product, which is causes less stress on our server, but is yields the highest return for us to add more features and benefits to those paying customers.

If we focused on those 85% of the customers who said they would pay a $1, we could have sold 10,000 units and made $10,000. Our servers would be maxed out, within one year that money would have been burnt by servers and development staff easily (probably less then 6 months). By charging $2 we would have immediately dropped down to a minimum of 55% of our users buying the product, so we would have sold 6,470 units at $2 and made $12,940. Or if 30% of our audience would pay $7 it would bring the total units to 3529 and revenue at $24,704. Heck, we had 5% say they would be willing to pay over $25, but that would have brought revenue down to $14,705.

These numbers are obviously fictitious, but they show you why and how we made our pricing decision. By charging $7 we knew that 70% or so were not going to be the happiest with the pricetag, but it would give us enough capital to put more developer resources towards making this product better. Even if we would have charged $2, 45% of our users would be complaining about the pricetag...

Our goal isn't to make so much money that we could buy a yacht tomorrow, it's to invest in the product to make it better and potentially make more products. You'll find most developers struggle to make cash from apps!

[newsome]

As I previously mentioned, our pricing was based completely off of our survey results. I knew by even charging over $1 that 45% of our all of our beta testers were not going to buy and by charging over $1 it was going to alienate those customers.

The median pricing from our survey results said our customers who would pay for the product would be willing to pay $7. Which has been the case, because we have been selling a bunch of these at that price tag, hence gaining traction on Mobihand best sellers list.

The problem is everyone here is only seeing the negative side of it... People are coming on the forums and posting comments to say they feel its too overpriced... What they aren't seeing are the emails coming into my inbox saying "Wow, $7 that's cheap" or all of the sales we are generating at the pricetag.

A lot of people are also saying that by charging this pricetag, we're going to go out of business cause no one is going to buy. If you look at Mobihand's top grossing applications, very little of them are under $5. By charging a higher pricetag we have less people using the product, which is causes less stress on our server, but is yields the highest return for us to add more features and benefits to those paying customers.

If we focused on those 85% of the customers who said they would pay a $1, we could have sold 10,000 units and made $10,000. Our servers would be maxed out, within one year that money would have been burnt by servers and development staff easily (probably less then 6 months). By charging $2 we would have immediately dropped down to a minimum of 55% of our users buying the product, so we would have sold 6,470 units at $2 and made $12,940. Or if 30% of our audience would pay $7 it would bring the total units to 3529 and revenue at $24,704. Heck, we had 5% say they would be willing to pay over $25, but that would have brought revenue down to $14,705.

These numbers are obviously fictitious, but they show you why and how we made our pricing decision. By charging $7 we knew that 70% or so were not going to be the happiest with the pricetag, but it would give us enough capital to put more developer resources towards making this product better. Even if we would have charged $2, 45% of our users would be complaining about the pricetag...

Our goal isn't to make so much money that we could buy a yacht tomorrow, it's to invest in the product to make it better and potentially make more products. You'll find most developers struggle to make cash from apps!

Alright, but here's the thing.... As you have mentioned more than once, "The median pricing from our survey results said our customers who would pay for the product would be willing to pay $7." You keep saying that like your app is $7, but it's not, it's $14.99. I bought it at the $7.50 price that I got by using the coupon for being a beta tester, but now anyone and everyone can get it for that price, which sort of ticks me off that anyone can now get it for the same price as me. I suffered through the pains and problems of the beta, but I get no reward for that. Further, your comments keep making me think that you're not going to really charge $14.99 for it, and in the end keep it at $7 or $7.50, which means the beta testers like myself ultimately won't receive anything for the trouble of testing the app.

As I said, I have bought it because I enjoy it and want to continue using it, but I suffered through quite a few problems during the beta with alarms that didn't go off, wrong time & date, the buzzer instead of the voice, etc., and I did think that our testing was worth more than half off, especially since the code's out there for anyone to use.

[kolonji]

Suck it up son .. jeesh

If you werent smart enough to set your native alarm to the time you needed to get up .. and set a beta alarm a few minutes after you were supposed to get up (so you could actually see what it was doing) then thats youre own fault.

They set their price .. they dealt with us testers .. and its done. To keep whining over it wont get you anywhere ..

[newsome]

Suck it up son .. jeesh

If you werent smart enough to set your native alarm to the time you needed to get up .. and set a beta alarm a few minutes after you were supposed to get up (so you could actually see what it was doing) then thats youre own fault.

They set their price .. they dealt with us testers .. and its done. To keep whining over it wont get you anywhere ..

I wouldn't say I'm whining, so much as giving my opinion... which is exactly what they asked me to do for several weeks during the beta testing. I don't think I'm out of line to give my opinion about the pricing even though the beta is over.

It's a little short-sighted of you to say "they set their price... ...and its done". No it's not. I paid for the app, but it's not a standalone program, it's dependent on Wakeful's servers. If in three months they aren't turning a profit because they priced themselves out of business, they can take what they've made up to that point, shut down the server, and walk away. But that would make the most expensive app I've ever paid for (yes, even at the $7.50 discounted price) useless and a waste of money.

I rolled the dice that the program is going to continue to improve, be even better than it is now, and succeed. I not only beta tested it, but I bought it, which I think gives me even more of a right to express my opinion.

[Chucky1]

As I previously mentioned, our pricing was based completely off of our survey results. I knew by even charging over $1 that 45% of our all of our beta testers were not going to buy and by charging over $1 it was going to alienate those customers.

The median pricing from our survey results said our customers who would pay for the product would be willing to pay $7. Which has been the case, because we have been selling a bunch of these at that price tag, hence gaining traction on Mobihand best sellers list.

The problem is everyone here is only seeing the negative side of it... People are coming on the forums and posting comments to say they feel its too overpriced... What they aren't seeing are the emails coming into my inbox saying "Wow, $7 that's cheap" or all of the sales we are generating at the pricetag.

A lot of people are also saying that by charging this pricetag, we're going to go out of business cause no one is going to buy. If you look at Mobihand's top grossing applications, very little of them are under $5. By charging a higher pricetag we have less people using the product, which is causes less stress on our server, but is yields the highest return for us to add more features and benefits to those paying customers.

If we focused on those 85% of the customers who said they would pay a $1, we could have sold 10,000 units and made $10,000. Our servers would be maxed out, within one year that money would have been burnt by servers and development staff easily (probably less then 6 months). By charging $2 we would have immediately dropped down to a minimum of 55% of our users buying the product, so we would have sold 6,470 units at $2 and made $12,940. Or if 30% of our audience would pay $7 it would bring the total units to 3529 and revenue at $24,704. Heck, we had 5% say they would be willing to pay over $25, but that would have brought revenue down to $14,705.

These numbers are obviously fictitious, but they show you why and how we made our pricing decision. By charging $7 we knew that 70% or so were not going to be the happiest with the pricetag, but it would give us enough capital to put more developer resources towards making this product better. Even if we would have charged $2, 45% of our users would be complaining about the pricetag...

Our goal isn't to make so much money that we could buy a yacht tomorrow, it's to invest in the product to make it better and potentially make more products. You'll find most developers struggle to make cash from apps!

I wouldn't say I'm whining, so much as giving my opinion... which is exactly what they asked me to do for several weeks during the beta testing. I don't think I'm out of line to give my opinion about the pricing even though the beta is over.

It's a little short-sighted of you to say "they set their price... ...and its done". No it's not. I paid for the app, but it's not a standalone program, it's dependent on Wakeful's servers. If in three months they aren't turning a profit because they priced themselves out of business, they can take what they've made up to that point, shut down the server, and walk away. But that would make the most expensive app I've ever paid for (yes, even at the $7.50 discounted price) useless and a waste of money.

I rolled the dice that the program is going to continue to improve, be even better than it is now, and succeed. I not only beta tested it, but I bought it, which I think gives me even more of a right to express my opinion.

Both of you have valid points. As a business owner myself, you take a huge risk on start up. #1. Do you start out high and possibly lose a few customers but make it until everything levels out and you can actually drop prices or your features included match the price you are charging. #2. Do you start out low and lose customers because you are so over worked and burnt out that you can't keep up and you shut things down to keep your sanity. I have done it both ways and my business is still thriving but one way is just as hard as the other. The main thing I have learned in the 20 plus years I have owned my business is, YOU PLEASE 50% OF YOUR CUSTOMERS 100% OF THE TIME AND 100% OF YOUR CUSTOMERS 50% OF THE TIME. In other words,you are not going to please everyone.

[pezboy]

I am not going to claim any business knowledge. It sounds like a lot of thought was put into making the decision on the price, so that is good.

When I sign up to beta test an app (of which I have done many), I don't do it with the expectation to get it for free or even discounted, so the amount of discount to testers doesn't upset me. I test because I enjoy trying out new apps with new ideas and to contribute feedback and suggestions to help mold the app into what it becomes. It almost gives a sense of pride knowing I helped contribute to a feature that made it into an app.

Testing Wakeful has been fun. I enjoyed it and think the app has great functionality and even more potential. While I am disappointed that the price ended up being out of my price range, I think the app is great and wish the team the best of luck. I am certainly willing to test another one of their apps in the future!

Good luck and thanks for the opportunity!

Pez

[piwh1000]

I am not going to claim any business knowledge. It sounds like a lot of thought was put into making the decision on the price, so that is good.

When I sign up to beta test an app (of which I have done many), I don't do it with the expectation to get it for free or even discounted, so the amount of discount to testers doesn't upset me. I test because I enjoy trying out new apps with new ideas and to contribute feedback and suggestions to help mold the app into what it becomes. It almost gives a sense of pride knowing I helped contribute to a feature that made it into an app.

Testing Wakeful has been fun. I enjoyed it and think the app has great functionality and even more potential. While I am disappointed that the price ended up being out of my price range, I think the app is great and wish the team the best of luck. I am certainly willing to test another one of their apps in the future!

Good luck and thanks for the opportunity!

Pez

We're glad you enjoyed testing the application!

[pezboy]

It's sad to see this app get bashed so hard. Especially in the comments of the blog. It really is a cool app. I read all of the comments and I think only two of the 50 were was positive and one of those was based on things he was looking forward to see added in the future.

I think that part of the issue (at least it is for me) may have been how the email to the beta testers was worded. By telling us that beta testers (and their friends) can now get a discounted price of $7.49 if we use the coupon code emailed to us, it gave the impression that we were being thanked for our contributions by way of an exclusive discount for us and our friends. When I read that, I thought "That seems a little pricey, but its cool that they gave the testers a discount." Now, after reading the blog and recent comments here, I realized that the discount that I was under the impression was a thank you for our work was really the same discount everyone else was offered. Again, I wasn't expecting a discount, so everyone getting a discount doesn't bother me, but the way the email was worded now leaves a little bad taste in my mouth. I don't expect to be treated any differently than people that didn't test (others do, and I understand that), but to give the impression that we are being treated differently and then immediately offering the same generosity to everyone else comes across as being ingenuine.

It was also a little odd at how quickly the app went from beta and giving me the alarm I was expecting to released and waking up to the trial expired announcement. Especially since there really wasn't much time to test the latest build. I felt like I was cut off from the app before seeing the final product to determine if it was one I would be willing to pay $7.49 for.

Again, great app and it's too bad to see the bad press. I am glad to hear that sales are doing well, though.

[MADBRADNYC]

I have been pretty quiet about this situation, but I am very upset with the audacity of this developer at this point! I never aired out the dirty laundry over this, but enough is enough! Yes, the app is nice, but it is only a 1 hit wonder. The beta testers were shagged with pricing that was available to any adopter, and it was way over priced anyway. I silently purchased the application to show support for what I believed was the integrity of the developer, and future updates/features which never came through. I was one of the testers that felt as if Wakeful was just going to go down hill with that pricepoint of $15.00, leaving us high and dry. Now, it seems to be so to me. We pretty much all expressed our reservations and tried to explain that it was bad business to ask for help testing then toss us a stale rotten bone. We also expressed that although the developer believed it was ok to put a price point at such a high level, real world users will not tolerate it for what it currently does. Now, after the intial "wow factor", I see that the application seems to be crashing & burning. Just as we stated. I take offense at receiving an email stating that the developer is now dropping the pricepoint to $4.99!!!! Why is it that the developer took the community feedback with a grain of salt, dismissed what we knew to be true, and suddenly change the price point to the reasonable fee that we implored him to charge in the first place?!?! This is just another slap in the face!!! Since we jump started this development team with high fees, there has been no updates or additional features since release!!! It seems to me that the developer would do just fine with server maintenance with this reasonable price point or it would not have been done!!! Shady to say the least, very disrespectful to the beta testers, and the general public who tried to support you after your cries of "server maintenance". What a fiasco!!! Also, I must say that since this release, there have been many more clock applications for BlackBerry devices released that do a lot more than this one, and from what I hear, there is a talking alarm clock for the PlayBook now. I will never test any application for this company again!!! I also will never provide a positive review as it currently stands with no upgrades. I only keep it on my device because I paid a very high premium for it, but not for the features it currenly contains!!! The developer should be ashamed of himself. Because of declining sales (revenue again), is the only reason to drop to the price point we told them numerous times was reasonable. We all also knew that $15.00 or $7.50 was an exorbinant amount of money for server maintenance. We also expressed how it was a failing descision that would come to bite them in the a$$. Now, they want to be in step with other clock alarms??? I call BS. Total Fail.

Oh, I don't care about hearing kiss a$$ people trying to flame me for what they know is true. I never had anything but support for this before and my credit card statement proves it. But this is asking your original supporters to just bend over and take the green weenie in the hershey highway. Exploitation at it's best.

A lot of nerve.....

Great news everyone, after being on the market for over 2 months and interacting with our customers we've decided to lower the price of Wakeful. We feel our new pricing is inline with other alarm clock apps available. So if you haven't bought yet, now is the perfect time.
You can get the full version and price at the following URL: BlackBerry App World - Wakeful - Talking Alarm Clock
We'd really appreciate it if you took a few minutes and wrote a review about our product on BlackBerry AppWorld: BlackBerry App World - Wakeful - Talking Alarm Clock
Please take the time to like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter: Wakeful | Facebook Wakeful (WakefulAlarm) on Twitter
Thanks, The Wakeful Team Wakeful - Blackberry Alarm Clock App