1. Peewiglet's Avatar
    Hi,

    I'm a very new BB user. I got my phone 2 days ago and y/day I bought and installed several interesting apps, some of them by using the BB via Blackberry Apps World. I paid with Paypal.

    Today I'm trying to buy Photo Editor, and having a weird problem. When I nominate Paypal as the payment method I'm asked to enter my Paypal email address (no problem), but the following words appear underneath.

    Use Paypal for future purchases on Blackberry App World without entering your Paypal password.

    I've just rung Paypal to ask what this is about, and the woman I spoke to told me that Blackberry want to do this as they feel it would be more convenient for them not to have to ask me for my password when they want to deduct money from my account via Paypal. Well I'm sure it WOULD be very convenient for them, but not so convenient for me to allow them unsupervised access to my bank account! I've no intention of allowing them to do that.

    Has anybody else come across this? I've used Paypal for years without a problem, and have never come across this before.

    Also, can anybody tell me where else I can buy Photo Editor? I certainly won't be getting it from BB App World.
    Batibreaker likes this.
    03-19-11 11:01 AM
  2. Jleeblanch's Avatar
    The issue in which you are mentioning is in fact, not an issue at all. One of the newer features of BlackBerry App World is the ability to store your PayPal password for future convenience. I think they started this when the introduced the BlackBerry ID's. I believe the reason they do this is because otherwise, every time you purchased an app from App World, you would have to enter your BlackBerry ID password along with your PayPal account password (which in my opinion, would be very annoying).

    Of course, not everyone will agree with this added convenience, as you have stated. I'm not sure if you're aware but you don't have to use your PayPal account to make purchases thru App World anymore. They have 2 other options as well (assuming you have BlackBerry App World 2.0+ installed). In the payment options, you can choose to have your purchases billed thru your Carrier (which you will see on your next Bill) or you can pay with your Credit/Debit card and enter that information in manually.

    My point for replying is to make you aware of the other payment options and to let you know that storing your PayPal account password is really just what it is, an added convenience.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a lot of people feel the way you do! There ARE other alternatives for purchasing apps for your BlackBerry like MobiHand. Try browsing their SuperStore for Photo Editor. A lot of times you'll find the same apps in both App World and MobiHand (but not always).

    I hope this helps provide you with a little insight!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-19-11 11:28 AM
  3. andyahs's Avatar
    You still have to authorize each purchase you make via App World even though they have your Paypal Password stored.
    03-19-11 11:31 AM
  4. Peewiglet's Avatar
    Hi Jleeblanch,

    Thanks for explaining. To me it definitely is an issue, though, when a vendor wants me to pre-approve payments from my Paypal account to them of up to $1,500, and refuses to allow me to use Paypal unless I agree to do so. I'm sure Blackberry Apps World are legitimate, but not all online vendors are. I'd rather not get into a situation where I find that a vendor has deducted money from my account without my knowledge--whether mistakenly or fraudulently--and I then have to try to get it back. I therefore won't be using the Paypal pre-approved payments option. No other vendor has ever asked me to use it in the many years I've been using Paypal.

    I rang Paypal, incidentally, to find out what it was all about, and they explained to me that this is a feature that has been introduced for the convenience of the vendors: so that they don't have to go to the trouble of requesting a password in order to collect payments. When I pointed out that I'd bought several apps there y/day and used Paypal in the usual way (i.e. by entering my details and authorising the payment) I was told that that was why App World had now attempted to set up the new arrangement. I certainly don't regard entering my password as an inconvenience: the password exists for my protection.

    Thanks for pointing out that there are other payment options available at Blackberry App World. I'll try one of those instead.

    @andyahs--Thanks for the further info. In what way is authorisation required at App World when one of these pre-approved payment agreements exists? I didn't get far enough to find out, as I clicked 'cancel' when I realised what was going on.
    Last edited by Peewiglet; 03-19-11 at 12:25 PM.
    Batibreaker likes this.
    03-19-11 12:20 PM
  5. fatih.kurnaz's Avatar
    Well actually after you signed in app world via your iD and password, there won't be any problem i think.
    03-19-11 12:29 PM
  6. andyahs's Avatar
    Even after I sign in with my App World ID and want to purchase an item (In this case Sphere Theme) I still have to click the 'Buy Now' button to authorize any payment from my Paypal Account.


    03-19-11 12:35 PM
  7. Peewiglet's Avatar
    @andyahs--I see, thanks. However, that doesn't address what seems to me to be the problem.

    Normally when I go to a vendor's site and choose to purchase a product via Paypal, I'm directed by the vendor to the Paypal site where I enter my own details. I don't share those details with the vendor.

    With the pre-approved payments plan that you've signed up to with App World,though, App World now have your Paypal password. (Either that, or they don't actually need it, because you've authorised them to debit your account without it.) That means that if their computers malfunction and wrongly tell them that you've chosen to buy XYZ programme, they can go to your Paypal account and collect the money. Alternatively, an unscrupulous person employed by them could attempt to use your Paypal account.

    Again: I'm sure App World is a legitimate organisation, but there are unscrupulous people employed by every large organisation, and honest mistakes occur in such organisations every day. I just don't see the point in taking that kind of risk with my bank account, but obviously it's fine for people who don't mind risking theirs.
    Last edited by Peewiglet; 03-19-11 at 12:52 PM.
    Batibreaker likes this.
    03-19-11 12:44 PM
  8. andyahs's Avatar
    While you make valid points at some point you have to trust the system and if you are not comfortable doing it app world way there are other options as outlined above, like mobihand/CB store.
    I have a Paypal account so I am familiar with using their services.
    03-19-11 12:49 PM
  9. Peewiglet's Avatar
    Quite right. In fact, I used a different method and I've now got the app.

    Like you, though, I do have a Paypal account. I've been using it happily for years, and would have preferred to have used it today.
    03-19-11 12:54 PM
  10. Jleeblanch's Avatar
    Everything is tied to your BlackBerry ID. If you've already purchased apps from App World, than you should have already created one. If PayPal is your preferred way of payment, than App World will store your PayPal email and password. BUT, you will still have to enter in your BlackBerry ID's email and password to complete any purchases. This prevents any unauthorized payments being deducted from your PayPal account.

    Vendors/Developers don't actually get any of that information. When you purchase an app within App World, you still have to authorize the payment by entering in your BlackBerry ID.

    My point is, NOBODY can just deduct money from your PayPal account without you first authorizing the payment. This is why the BlackBerry ID exists (amongst other reasons).

    I hope that helps you better understand things..

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-19-11 12:57 PM
  11. Peewiglet's Avatar
    [...] My point is, NOBODY can just deduct money from your PayPal account without you first authorizing the payment. This is why the BlackBerry ID exists (amongst other reasons).

    I hope that helps you better understand things..
    It doesn't, I'm afraid. It could be that I'm misunderstanding something, though.

    Just assume for a moment that a dishonest employee of an organisation in favour of which you've set up one of these pre-payment agreements decides to process a Paypal transaction for $100 in respect of something you didn't actually buy. What's to stop Paypal from making the payment? How does Paypal know you didn't go to the vendor's site and purchase the product?
    Batibreaker likes this.
    03-19-11 01:24 PM
  12. Motorcycle Mama's Avatar
    You are completely reading too much into this AND interpreting it incorrectly.

    That option is so that YOU don't have have input your Paypal password, but you still have to log in to purchase apps.

    No one who doesn't have your app world password and user ID is going to be able to charge your account without your permission.

    Relax.
    03-19-11 01:51 PM
  13. Peewiglet's Avatar
    You are completely reading too much into this AND interpreting it incorrectly.

    That option is so that YOU don't have have input your Paypal password, but you still have to log in to purchase apps.

    No one who doesn't have your app world password and user ID is going to be able to charge your account without your permission.

    Relax.
    Hi,

    I don't think the option has been introduced for purchasers. First, Paypal told me when I rang them this afternoon that it exists for the convenience of the vendors. They initially introduced the system so that Ebay (with whom they are closely associated) could automatically deduct seller fees from sellers' Paypal accounts, rather than having to wait for sellers to pay them. Now they've extended the same service to other vendors. Secondly, if BB App World had introduced the system was for the convenience of the purchaser then presumably the new system would merely be an option and the old system would also be on offer, but it isn't. I can't use Paypal with BB App World unless I agree to this pre-payment system. I was asked to authorise BB App World to withdraw up to $1,500--yes, that's fifteen hundred dollars--per transaction, without a direct word from me to Paypal.

    You say that I've misinterpreted the situation, but you haven't explained where the misunderstanding lies. In the scenario I've described to Jleeblanch directly above, how is Paypal to know whether a user has authorised a payment or not? It seems to me that they're reliant upon the word of the vendor. I'd rather they relied upon me.

    I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, btw: it's just that I've not come across this with any other vendor, and I've explained above why it concerns me. I understand that some other people are unconcerned, and that's fine. I'll remain suspicious, though, unless somebody is able to explain to me how Paypal has anything other than the word of the vendor to rely upon when sending payments out of my bank account.

    Thinking about it further, I've authorised something similar over on Amazon so that I can use it for One-Click purchases. I suppose I'm less leery about that because I've been using Amazon for years, and also because it's just an option there rather than a requirement.
    Last edited by Peewiglet; 03-19-11 at 02:53 PM.
    Batibreaker likes this.
    03-19-11 02:46 PM
  14. Motorcycle Mama's Avatar
    So don't use it and move on.
    03-19-11 03:43 PM
  15. Peewiglet's Avatar
    I will. Why be so aggressive, though? I thought this was a discussion forum. People can't always agree with you, you know.
    03-19-11 05:30 PM
  16. Tõnis's Avatar
    Not sure if I'm understanding correctly, but it sounds like the same thing when you're making an online payment (to a utility, for instance), and the secure site gives you the option of keeping your credit card or bank account info there for future payments.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-19-11 05:41 PM
  17. Motorcycle Mama's Avatar
    I'm just trying to tell you that you are over-reacting. The sky isn't falling, piglet.

    And I use PayPal in App World all the time without approving a $1500 charge on my account.
    03-19-11 05:47 PM
  18. RegN's Avatar
    I keep my account so empty that it don't matter if someone tried to take 1500 it is not there to take.

    I used appworld with paypal and have no issue with not having to put my passwords in there twice. That said I think that I find better deals on mobihand
    03-19-11 08:06 PM
  19. Xopher's Avatar
    I think part of the misunderstanding comes from being new to BlackBerry. RIM has their business built on security. There is a reason that countries like India are threatening to ban BlackBerry devices - they can't access information being communicated over BES. BES is so secure that even RIM doesn't have access. It is one of the reasons why governments only use BlackBerry devices.

    Granted, App World is not BES, but RIM has built their business based on security. I would have no doubts that they took this into consideration when building App World.

    I had no problem with App World storing my payment information. The main reasons were:

    1) Purchases have to be made from a BlackBerry. That means the device PIN is recorded at the time of the transaction. Lots of developers actually base their licenses off of the PIN, which means the software only works on that device.

    2) There is a transaction log. On the App World side, there is a transaction ID (developers use this to verify that the license request is valid), and a PayPal transaction ID. All of those can be traced and verified.

    3) Passwords. You still have to log into your BlackBerry ID account. Even with Amazon's one-click purchasing, you still have to enter your username and password first. Unless someone had access to your BlackBerry, and your BlackBerry ID information, it is highly unlikely that anyone can access your PayPal information.

    4) Reputation. With RIM building their business based on security, it would be a pretty big black eye for them if someone gained access to payment information. The first time anything like accessing personal information actually happens on a BlackBerry, it will be big news, and possibly cost them a lot of government contracts.

    I can understand being wary. If you don't feel that RIM is secure enough, then there are other app stores available (a nice thing about BlackBerry is having such options). Personally, I feel there is enough security throughout RIM's infrastructure that I feel confident my payment information is safe.
    03-20-11 06:39 AM
  20. TLS2000's Avatar
    Quite right. In fact, I used a different method and I've now got the app.

    Like you, though, I do have a Paypal account. I've been using it happily for years, and would have preferred to have used it today.
    Did that different method involve providing your credit card number?

    If it did, that is no more secure than allowing App World to save your paypal password. Even if you went through an alternate site, such as CB Store/Mobihand you are giving them direct access to your credit card.

    I really don't see this as an issue. You either trust the site, or you don't. You apparently don't, which is fine, but other methods take just as much trust and are just as insecure as saving your password on app world.
    03-20-11 11:21 AM
  21. Batibreaker's Avatar
    It doesn't, I'm afraid. It could be that I'm misunderstanding something, though.

    Just assume for a moment that a dishonest employee of an organisation in favour of which you've set up one of these pre-payment agreements decides to process a Paypal transaction for $100 in respect of something you didn't actually buy. What's to stop Paypal from making the payment? How does Paypal know you didn't go to the vendor's site and purchase the product?
    As for today, In the Z10 the problem still persists.

    BB Apps World -- wants to bypass my Paypal password!-img_20141221_184315.png
    Last edited by Batibreaker; 01-04-15 at 03:14 AM. Reason: Add photo
    01-04-15 03:06 AM
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