07-01-11 03:10 PM
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  1. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    After all these years seeing how smart phone popularity has evolved, I noticed that success comes down to this 1 simple concept. And its not for the reason most people are thinking.

    More apps equates more investment. If there are more developers making apps, that means the platform is worth the time to make the app, and if that is multiplied, then that concept resonates with people trying to look for the value in that platform, particularly the long term value.

    So...

    The hardware advancements are welcomed and much needed, but the app and development focus should be #1 after that if rim wants to succeed. And last I recall, a certain co-ceo publicly said that you don't need apps if you have a strong browser. Kinda true right? Problem is, you don't see a platform's investment based on its browser. You see it based on its marketplace! The browser serves its function! But it can't replace the "people" type of investment when it comes to 3rd party people.

    Proof of this concept is in the Playbook! No one will ever give a Playbook a negative review based on hardware capability, or even the qnx software for that matter. Yet, the "fail" reviews are plentiful all over the net! So it made me wonder, especially with the new wave of devices coming...... Can RIM bounce back with solely hardware advancements.

    And to that I say no way! Because until 3rd party development matches that of apple and Google, nothing rim does will keep that ship afloat!

    That's just my perspective from the evolving market and how the consumer today recognizes "value!"

    Anyone care to weigh in....

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 06-29-11 at 12:43 AM.
    blue81to likes this.
    06-28-11 10:22 AM
  2. anon(3733516)'s Avatar
    I really hope you don't actually think apps are the most important feature of a platform...
    06-28-11 10:46 AM
  3. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Its not a usability issue with the app itself, its an investment to the platform that brings in customers...

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
    06-28-11 10:50 AM
  4. mark-d's Avatar
    There is truth in the OPs statement.

    No matter how could a platform is is needs developers to support it if it is to be a consumer success.

    No-one can deny the quality of the Blackberry hardware and the excellent of the operating system. The security is there for all to see and admire and it's a fantastic device for business. However RIM has started developing phones that are more and more consumer angled however there aren't the apps available to compete in the consumer market with other platforms.

    The phones Blackberry make are more than able to compete with their competitors but it's the apps that add the functionality that in the consumer market, where BES and security isn't paramount, may or may not sway platform decisions
    06-28-11 10:54 AM
  5. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    A better way to look at the app business is... Apps don't just create a user friendly solutions to the mobile experience, they show themselves to increase the value of the platform because investment, time, and effort went into its development, showing the customer that that platform was worth that time... Effort ... Investment.

    When you multiply that into the 100,000s, the the value is clearly understood

    That is the consumer market as it is today and that is why Google and apple are succeeding

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 06-28-11 at 11:09 AM.
    06-28-11 11:06 AM
  6. SaMaster14's Avatar
    @tuffy: It seems as if you just read the title and posted without reading the OPs post... He isn't saying that apps are the most important feature, they are just necessary to allow a platform to fully succeed and soar above the rest.
    06-28-11 04:14 PM
  7. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Its not rant. Its a perspective of what I see the smart phone race developing into.

    Think of each platform as its own economy. To have a strong economy, you need a strong workforce. App development provides the workforce that shows a growing infrastructure. Lack of app development looks to the consumer like a platform with little support. Little support from the work force usually means less value, and not much hope for long term investment.... Hense, a bad economy.

    And right before rim's tumble, it was the app race that rim decided to stay out of, particularly the race between Google and Apple.

    I'm just here saying that looking at it from this perspective tells me that apps are indeed relivant.

    I wonder if rim is on the same page with this idea and at what priority they hold it.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
    06-29-11 12:53 AM
  8. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Apps add functionality which was missing in the core OS (whichever it is or was)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-29-11 07:02 AM
  9. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    That too! Now that I'm primarily on android (still use my bb on wifi), i see how a lot of those utility apps they sell for bb are already inside the android OS.

    So when we talk "apps," these utility apps that were meant to be inside the OS but left out, shouldn't count as a quality app. It only serves to poke holes in the bbos and shows how incomplete it really is. Xobni and add to contacts quickly come to my head when it comes to apps that are already stock in the android experience

    Sent from my DINC2 using tapatalk
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 06-30-11 at 03:45 AM.
    06-30-11 03:41 AM
  10. jthep's Avatar
    Apps often do add to better functionality to a smartphone and perhaps even a tablet, but what utility type or popular site apps are lacking on a BB?

    The main useful apps Blackberry phones have are all there for:

    Social Networking
    Data Sharing
    Cloud Computing
    Music Tagging
    Maps/GPS
    Messaging
    Local business/restaurant finders

    Where are BB's lacking?

    Games
    Video content apps

    But even the smartphones with more and better games couldn't hold a candle to a Game Boy's games from 20 years ago. Sad, but true. And Hulu or Netflix or NFL games or MobilTV are all kind of useless on small phone screens if you ask me. The only video content app worth having is Youtube for short interesting videos. Anything longer is a strain on the eyes on a little screen...
    06-30-11 07:24 AM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    Apps often do add to better functionality to a smartphone and perhaps even a tablet, but what utility type or popular site apps are lacking on a BB?

    The main useful apps Blackberry phones have are all there for:

    Social Networking
    Data Sharing
    Cloud Computing
    Music Tagging
    Maps/GPS
    Messaging
    Local business/restaurant finders

    Where are BB's lacking?

    Games
    Video content apps

    But even the smartphones with more and better games couldn't hold a candle to a Game Boy's games from 20 years ago. Sad, but true. And Hulu or Netflix or NFL games or MobilTV are all kind of useless on small phone screens if you ask me. The only video content app worth having is Youtube for short interesting videos. Anything longer is a strain on the eyes on a little screen...
    I more or less agree with you but I also can see someone that has an hour commute in a train, bus or whatever that might like some of those things to make the commute go by faster.
    06-30-11 08:09 AM
  12. jthep's Avatar
    An hour is enough to perhaps watch a show, not an entire movie, so the Netflix app is kinda dumb, IMHO.
    06-30-11 08:21 AM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    An hour is enough to perhaps watch a show, not an entire movie, so the Netflix app is kinda dumb, IMHO.
    It's all personal to each individual. The one thing I would worry about is extra data charges and probably the largest reason all carriers are starting to go to tiered data plans and charging more because some users consume gb and gb of data on their unlimited package.

    I say don't make everyone pay, just make the ones that use it pay and leave the rest alone. Wouldn't that be fair?

    Sorry I hijacked the thread and got off topic.
    Last edited by kbz1960; 06-30-11 at 08:33 AM. Reason: sorry
    06-30-11 08:32 AM
  14. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Apps are richer on an android. The screen functionality also makes things more usable on android where its not so much on a keyboard device with a half screen.

    The games are much much richer than a bb can dream of. Also, web browsing for me on a Droid actually keeps me away from my laptop. That's how good it is!

    And at the end of the day, more apps usually means more creative ways to be productive. There's too many to list right now, but a small example is... I have been looking for a nice NYC subway map for a long time now. Android satisfied that need. Bb did not! That same concept is multiplied over and over again on my android



    Sent from my DINC2 using tapatalk
    06-30-11 12:03 PM
  15. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    An hour is enough to perhaps watch a show, not an entire movie, so the Netflix app is kinda dumb, IMHO.
    I would not say it is dumb. By the way, even Windows Phone 7 has a Netflix app. It is not just for Android and iPhone.
    06-30-11 12:14 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Its not rant. Its a perspective of what I see the smart phone race developing into.

    Think of each platform as its own economy. To have a strong economy, you need a strong workforce. App development provides the workforce that shows a growing infrastructure. Lack of app development looks to the consumer like a platform with little support. Little support from the work force usually means less value, and not much hope for long term investment.... Hense, a bad economy.

    And right before rim's tumble, it was the app race that rim decided to stay out of, particularly the race between Google and Apple.

    I'm just here saying that looking at it from this perspective tells me that apps are indeed relivant.

    I wonder if rim is on the same page with this idea and at what priority they hold it.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
    I do agree with you here and in your original post.

    Windows Phone 7 is much newer than any of the other platforms. However, they already have over 20,000 apps available. Microsoft did it in a much shorter time than RIM.

    RIM needs to improve their SDK in order to attract developers. Currently, Microsoft is offering incentives to get developers on board, and it appears to be working, given what they've accomplished in such a short time.
    06-30-11 12:18 PM
  17. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Yep! And if you read the open letter put out today, it says exactly that
    06-30-11 12:28 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Yep! And if you read the open letter put out today, it says exactly that
    Yes. I got the Tweet from BGR, and I've posted in another thread commenting on the article.
    06-30-11 12:58 PM
  19. hootyhoo's Avatar
    I posted in another thread that rim should keep the people that they fired and just spend their time writing apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-30-11 01:11 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I posted in another thread that rim should keep the people that they fired and just spend their time writing apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I believe the main problem is RIM put the cart before the horse by not fixing the SDK prior to releasing the Playbook. The Playbook has impressive hardware specs. However, what good is a nice piece of hardware that does not do much of anything?

    They need to work on the SDK ASAP. Until that is fixed, the developers will not bother with apps.
    06-30-11 01:17 PM
  21. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    But then again, going back to mobile for a second. Facebook in the beta zone is excellent. And the improvements make it in most ways better than the android version of it. But why does it have to still be in beta after all this time?

    I don't really understand that... And being late is what rim is known for. You would think simple things like this would just be pushed out already so make the platform more appealing.

    Your betazone members are just a tiny fraction of the bb community so it would be a shame if rim falls and no one ever got to see their Facebook app in action
    Sent from my DINC2 using tapatalk
    06-30-11 01:24 PM
  22. jthep's Avatar
    So wait, you found an app of NYC subway maps and thats the deciding factor? Ummm... maybe I won't find an app for it, but I am sure I can browse my Torch and find a map.

    So how often do use that app? Oh yea, that one time you were lost. Sorry, not exactly something I am impressed with.

    As for games, sorry, but the Game Boy was better for games in the late 1980's than the Android or iPhone are now. You want games, but a DS. Blackberries lack games, but once again, is that really why you bought your phone?

    As for Facebook, I think the apps are good for all phones...
    06-30-11 02:47 PM
  23. blue81to's Avatar
    I've never owned a Blackberry but one thing that I've notice is the amount of space available for apps. With iPhone or Android you can put several GBs of apps on your phone at once. If people had more space they'd probably put more apps on their phone, including paid ones. Sometimes I wonder what affect it has on peoples app purchases. I would be interested in seeing a study on how many apps the average Blackberry customer buys compared to iPhone or Android. People are quick to blame developers but are developers being let down by the consumers?

    When I browse appworld I've noticed that the average file size of Blackberry apps are smaller. I guess that's a combination of a lot of factors. On my iPhone 3g I have 107 apps currently installed at 2.5 GBs. That's an average of about 23 MBs per app. If I had a Blackberry than I wouldn't have enough space to have that many apps. The nature of the apps would be different too.

    My question to people who have both a Blackberry and iPhone/Android phone; is your psychology towards App World fundamentally different than it is towards Android Market/App Store? Do you feel less enticed to download Blackberry apps(free or paid) than Android/iPhone apps?

    I also heard developers say that it's more expensive to develop for Blackberry.
    BlackBerry has always been a thorn in the developers side. When I'm developing apps, I have to compile for different OS versions (4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 6.0, and now 7.0). 4.7 added touch capabilities (Storm), 5.0 added database features, and so on. But the main phone that was still being sold up through last year was the 83xx, which ran 4.3 (upgradeable to 4.5). If you only developed for current devices, you're leaving a large portion of the BB market out.

    Once you get above 4.6, you start having lots more different screen resolutions. 320x240, 480x320, 480x360, horizontal, vertical. Now with BB7, we're getting 640x480 and 800x480. Now you have to test for different resolutions on all different screen sizes.

    All current devices also have different processors based on radio. GSM uses the Marvel chipset while CDMA uses Qualcomm. There isn't a huge difference as far as the developer is concerned, but CDMA Storms have OpenGL while the GSM Storms don't (because of the processor). GSM devices can play and record at the same time (so there are finally some VOIP apps) but the CDMA chipset can't. GSM chips can process sounds, so there are guitar tuners for GSM devices - the chipset that RIM uses for CDMA can't. It can be quite frustrating when an app designed for a device, like the Curve 8320 won't work on the 8330.

    A perfect example is an app that came out about two years ago. It even made it onto the main Crackberry page. It would only work on GSM devices. There were tons of complaints that the app wouldn't work on the Curve 8330. Turns out the company was based in Germany, so they only had access to the GSM device.

    That means you have to have multiple devices for testing. Sure, simulators can be good for testing while coding, but you need actual devices to make sure the app works across different models, carriers, and so on. Unless you are a big company and RIM gives you devices as part of your Alliance membership, you have to buy devices. For a small shop, that can get quite expensive quickly. Curve, Storm, Pearl, Style, Tour, Bold, Torch.... Then you may need to have BIS plans for different networks for testing as well.... It can end up costing several thousands of dollars to get set up for development.

    If you look at developing for iOS, you pretty much just need one device. It is a lot easier for someone to get into developing for iOS with a lot less expense. With Android, you still need multiple devices for testing, but not to the extent that you do with BlackBerry.

    Playbook development is almost in the same boat. Sure, you only need on Playbook, but the development tools from Adobe are $700. If you are used to using the free development platforms (like Eclipse) for BlackBerry development, it's a pretty big chunk to dole out for one developing for one device.

    As I go to update apps, I have to ask myself if it is worth including BB7 devices. How long with BB7 actually be used? If QNX is coming next year, does that mean the new devices coming out this summer will only be on the market for 9 months? That's not an issue with Android, which has new devices hitting the market just about every week (still using the same couple of versions of Android). Do I spend another grand on BB7 devices just to support something that might not be around for long? That's the question I'm going through right now.
    06-30-11 03:18 PM
  24. kbz1960's Avatar
    I posted in another thread that rim should keep the people that they fired and just spend their time writing apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    How do you know that the ones they fired or laid off aren't the ones responsible for what we have now?
    06-30-11 03:41 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    I've never owned a Blackberry but one thing that I've notice is the amount of space available for apps. With iPhone or Android you can put several GBs of apps on your phone at once. If people had more space they'd probably put more apps on their phone, including paid ones. Sometimes I wonder what affect it has on peoples app purchases. I would be interested in seeing a study on how many apps the average Blackberry customer buys compared to iPhone or Android. People are quick to blame developers but are developers being let down by the consumers?

    When I browse appworld I've noticed that the average file size of Blackberry apps are smaller. I guess that's a combination of a lot of factors. On my iPhone 3g I have 107 apps currently installed at 2.5 GBs. That's an average of about 23 MBs per app. If I had a Blackberry than I wouldn't have enough space to have that many apps. The nature of the apps would be different too.

    My question to people who have both a Blackberry and iPhone/Android phone; is your psychology towards App World fundamentally different than it is towards Android Market/App Store? Do you feel less enticed to download Blackberry apps(free or paid) than Android/iPhone apps?

    I also heard developers say that it's more expensive to develop for Blackberry.
    Wow 107 apps on a phone, how many of those do you really use? I don't even have that many programs/app equivalent on my computer. Do you really need an app to do anything?
    06-30-11 03:43 PM
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