01-20-20 10:08 AM
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  1. bh7171's Avatar
    The exception would be a market leader looking to cover all major niches. Samsung has the size, resources, and corporate trust to make this attractive to construction companies and others looking for a rugged phone without sacrificing features, quality, or support. They also have the efficiencies of scale to make it profitable at a lower volume, unlike most other players. A smaller company with a much smaller slice of the market can't afford smaller volumes - they have to make mainstream products that have wide appeal, or at the very least, target a niche that is large enough to be profitable. There are very, very few such niches anymore - mainstream phones are too good at everything to allow many niches to remain.
    There's definitely room for a Galaxy "Key" Pro device. Samsung just needs to build one with 4 years security patches and carrier support here in US and it would sell. Especially as a dual offering to "enterprise"/business clients.
    the_boon likes this.
    01-14-20 01:54 AM
  2. bh7171's Avatar
    This phone is very much designed for team use, with the programmable buttons perfectly set up for walkie talkie functions. I can see it being used in both industrial and field environments (first responders/military/etc.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    This device is actually a joint project between Samsung and Microsoft. It will initially release on the Verizon network here in US.
    01-14-20 01:56 AM
  3. bh7171's Avatar
    doesn't look like the tiny fingerprint sensor on the side would be very functional! looks like a textured button.
    Its actually really cool and great location for the sensor. Go check out a Samsung Tab S5e. I would welcome this location for fingerprint recognition on any new device.
    01-14-20 02:00 AM
  4. Rodney Wilder's Avatar
    I have an s10e
    Side fingerprint is working great for me. Way better than s8/9 rear and s10/+ behind screen issues with tempered glass protectors.

    Battery life isn't awesome coming off a Motion, but wireless charging alleviates that a bit if can have setup in car and desk so don't need to plug in. Extra cost to do so kinda sucks though.

    This xcover pro is basically what I've been hoping for from them. Tested an xcover4 a couple years ago but was way too underpowered and camera was horrible. This looks great on that front. Do agree the screen is a little large considering xcover4 was something like 5"
    01-14-20 03:13 AM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    I have an s10e
    Side fingerprint is working great for me. Way better than s8/9 rear and s10/+ behind screen issues with tempered glass protectors.

    Battery life isn't awesome coming off a Motion, but wireless charging alleviates that a bit if can have setup in car and desk so don't need to plug in. Extra cost to do so kinda sucks though.

    This xcover pro is basically what I've been hoping for from them. Tested an xcover4 a couple years ago but was way too underpowered and camera was horrible. This looks great on that front. Do agree the screen is a little large considering xcover4 was something like 5"
    How's the S10e battery life when disabling all that Samsung and Google junk?

    And also using dark theme and battery saving mode?

    I'm thinking of getting one as a companion slab to my KEYBerry's
    01-14-20 02:29 PM
  6. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    There's definitely room for a Galaxy "Key" Pro device. Samsung just needs to build one with 4 years security patches and carrier support here in US and it would sell. Especially as a dual offering to "enterprise"/business clients.
    IMO, if Samsung thought there was "definitely" a market for a PKB, they'd have been making them all along. Just because they are the best-positioned company to make such a device doesn't mean there's a big enough market, or that they have any real interest in doing so, and I suspect that even if they did make one, it wouldn't have flagship specs or flagship support.
    01-14-20 03:33 PM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    IMO, if Samsung thought there was "definitely" a market for a PKB, they'd have been making them all along. Just because they are the best-positioned company to make such a device doesn't mean there's a big enough market, or that they have any real interest in doing so, and I suspect that even if they did make one, it wouldn't have flagship specs or flagship support.
    Has Samsung ever made a portrait PKB ? If there is a market at all, it would be for a portrait device. I guess you are right. With every passing day the PKB market is decreasing. Almost no one who has never used a PKB is interested.

    Having said that. Far more customers would buy a Samsung than a TCL Key device. If an OEM does make a BlackBerry type device, they should embrace the format and go with a smaller screen. No point in a PKB with poor ergonomics..
    the_boon likes this.
    01-15-20 03:56 PM
  8. the_boon's Avatar
    Has Samsung ever made a portrait PKB ? If there is a market at all, it would be for a portrait device. I guess you are right. With every passing day the PKB market is decreasing. Almost no one who has never used a PKB is interested.

    Having said that. Far more customers would buy a Samsung than a TCL Key device. If an OEM does make a BlackBerry type device, they should embrace the format and go with a smaller screen. No point in a PKB with poor ergonomics..
    I think the last Samsung PKB portrait device was the Galaxy Ch@t b5330 back in 2012
    01-15-20 04:51 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    IMO, if Samsung thought there was "definitely" a market for a PKB, they'd have been making them all along. Just because they are the best-positioned company to make such a device doesn't mean there's a big enough market, or that they have any real interest in doing so, and I suspect that even if they did make one, it wouldn't have flagship specs or flagship support.
    I think the PKB Covers were all the market required.... and then not even enough of those were selling.
    01-15-20 04:59 PM
  10. the_boon's Avatar
    I think the PKB Covers were all the market required.... and then not even enough of those were selling.
    If the carriers would have stocked and displayed those keyboard cases in all their stores, you can bet that they would have sold a hell of a lot more.

    I'm willing to bet 90% of S8/+ owners didn't even know of their existence.
    01-15-20 05:18 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If the carriers would have stocked and displayed those keyboard cases in all their stores, you can bet that they would have sold a hell of a lot more.

    I'm willing to bet 90% of S8/+ owners didn't even know of their existence.
    I’d bet 90% of the 90% didn’t care....

    ;-D
    Bbnivende likes this.
    01-15-20 08:59 PM
  12. the_boon's Avatar
    I’d bet 90% of the 90% didn’t care....

    ;-D
    It's pretty obvious that retailer and carrier visibility of those cases would have helped their dismal sales.

    Most casual people that upgrade their phones just buy their case(s) and screen protectors right there and then at the same store they buy the phone.
    01-16-20 08:53 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It's pretty obvious that retailer and carrier visibility of those cases would have helped their dismal sales.

    Most casual people that upgrade their phones just buy their case(s) and screen protectors right there and then at the same store they buy the phone.
    I get that if people don't know about it, you can't sell it... But I also get that if people don't want it, they will not buy it.

    Sadly I think time has shown that the latter was the case.
    01-16-20 10:33 AM
  14. the_boon's Avatar
    I get that if people don't know about it, you can't sell it... But I also get that if people don't want it, they will not buy it.

    Sadly I think time has shown that the latter was the case.
    How many people pay the insane price of like $40 or more for an official Apple case for their brand new iPhone right there and then in the Apple store, when they could easily find the same case cheaper on eBay?

    Alot do, because people want the process to be quick and simple.

    If those S8 keyboard cases were proudly displayed at all carrier and retailers, they would have sold decently well as long as they were priced under $30 at most (lol that's what a typical slabber would value a PKB right?)

    The S8 sold very, very well too.
    01-16-20 11:08 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    How many people pay the insane price of like $40 or more for an official Apple case for their brand new iPhone right there and then in the Apple store, when they could easily find the same case cheaper on eBay?

    Alot do, because people want the process to be quick and simple.

    If those S8 keyboard cases were proudly displayed at all carrier and retailers, they would have sold decently well as long as they were priced under $30 at most (lol that's what a typical slabber would value a PKB right?)

    The S8 sold very, very well too.
    Really does't matter what it's valued at.... it matter what it cost to produce. Which is why it was a $60 accessory, which is far more than an impulse buy.

    Other thing that matters is how well the product works and how much users like it.... you can see from professional and customer reviews, that they weren't great products.
    01-16-20 11:58 AM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    Really does't matter what it's valued at.... it matter what it cost to produce. Which is why it was a $60 accessory, which is far more than an impulse buy.

    Other thing that matters is how well the product works and how much users like it.... you can see from professional and customer reviews, that they weren't great products.
    These reviews all compared it to the KEYone which they obviously couldn't hold a candle to, but they weren't horrible on their own merit, and I used one myself for a few months.

    It's just that aesthetically, they were a far cry away from the sleek shiny design of the phone with their cheap plastic matte finish.

    I don't usually like glossy keys on PKB's but if there was one device to have glossy keys on, it should have been these cases.
    01-16-20 12:06 PM
  17. Rodney Wilder's Avatar
    How's the S10e battery life when disabling all that Samsung and Google junk?

    And also using dark theme and battery saving mode?

    I'm thinking of getting one as a companion slab to my KEYBerry's
    I haven't disabled all the junk, but battery is Meh. It's definitely not a full day device, but does usually survive a standard 9-5 if don't spend it playing games and streaming videos. I have survived the odd morning to night of light/medium use.
    It's fast, that's for sure.
    01-16-20 12:20 PM
  18. the_boon's Avatar
    I haven't disabled all the junk, but battery is Meh. It's definitely not a full day device, but does usually survive a standard 9-5 if don't spend it playing games and streaming videos. I have survived the odd morning to night of light/medium use.
    It's fast, that's for sure.
    Just got an S10e and started using it yesterday as a sort of test drive experiment (it's the only modern decently sized slab) and while I didn't like the battery life initially, it's actually doing okay/better today.

    That's after having done many battery saving tricks lol but right now I'm at over 3 and a half hours of screen-on time with 42% left so that's not bad.
    bh7171 likes this.
    01-16-20 01:10 PM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Just got an S10e and started using it yesterday as a sort of test drive experiment (it's the only modern decently sized slab) and while I didn't like the battery life initially, it's actually doing okay/better today.

    That's after having done many battery saving tricks lol but right now I'm at over 3 and a half hours of screen-on time with 42% left so that's not bad.
    Samsung's tools for optimization were pretty good. Picking which apps could be forced to sleep helped my battery life a lot.

    As well as going through and disabling apps that I didn't need. XDA had a list of what services could be disabled on my S7, I suspect they have one for the S10 as well - number of Samsung/Carrier apps aren't really needed.
    01-16-20 02:47 PM
  20. the_boon's Avatar
    Samsung's tools for optimization were pretty good. Picking which apps could be forced to sleep helped my battery life a lot.

    As well as going through and disabling apps that I didn't need. XDA had a list of what services could be disabled on my S7, I suspect they have one for the S10 as well - number of Samsung/Carrier apps aren't really needed.
    Samsung's One UI 2 has got nothing over O² OS lol
    01-16-20 02:58 PM
  21. bh7171's Avatar
    If the carriers would have stocked and displayed those keyboard cases in all their stores, you can bet that they would have sold a hell of a lot more.

    I'm willing to bet 90% of S8/+ owners didn't even know of their existence.
    You mean marketing a product actually works? Is that why I see endless Apple promotions from carriers as television commercials?
    01-18-20 11:25 AM
  22. bh7171's Avatar
    I get that if people don't know about it, you can't sell it... But I also get that if people don't want it, they will not buy it.

    Sadly I think time has shown that the latter was the case.
    Consumers don't really have desire to buy anything. Its the very reason marketing and advertising exist! Why is this so difficult for many to understand. You could have the best, most helpful product in the world and if consumers or your target market were not aware it simply does not matter. Successfully selling any product takes marketing and advertising.
    the_boon likes this.
    01-18-20 11:32 AM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You mean marketing a product actually works? Is that why I see endless Apple promotions from carriers as television commercials?
    You see endless Apple promotions because they work to drive sales of iPhones.

    And if BlackBerry Mobile had seen any indication that similar promotions would work to drive sales of KEY phones you would have seen more.

    By your analogy, I could package and sell dog **** if I ran enough ads. But it's not true. That's not at all how marketing communications works.

    The key metric is conversion rate...what percentage of people progress from awareness of a product to purchase of that product. What BlackBerry Mobile found is that very few people who KNEW about the KEY phones bought them, and those that did were already BlackBerry fans.

    As a result, they concluded that it would not be effective to spend more money introducing the product to the general public. The conversion rate would not justify the cost. If the product doesn't generate demand among people who are aware of it, it doesn't make sense to spend money on an awareness campaign.

    Successful products are heavily marketed, but the marketing is used to sustain the success, not create it. That's why you don't see endless ads for products that fail. It's simply throwing good money after bad to advertise a product people don't buy.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    Bbnivende likes this.
    01-18-20 12:02 PM
  24. bh7171's Avatar
    You see endless Apple promotions because they work to drive sales of iPhones.

    And if BlackBerry Mobile had seen any indication that similar promotions would work to drive sales of KEY phones you would have seen more.

    By your analogy, I could package and sell dog **** if I ran enough ads. But it's not true. That's not at all how marketing communications works.

    The key metric is conversion rate...what percentage of people progress from awareness of a product to purchase of that product. What BlackBerry Mobile found is that very few people who KNEW about the KEY phones bought them, and those that did were already BlackBerry fans.

    As a result, they concluded that it would not be effective to spend more money introducing the product to the general public. The conversion rate would not justify the cost. If the product doesn't generate demand among people who are aware of it, it doesn't make sense to spend money on an awareness campaign.

    Successful products are heavily marketed, but the marketing is used to sustain the success, not create it. That's why you don't see endless ads for products that fail. It's simply throwing good money after bad to advertise a product people don't buy.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    People sold "pet rocks" for pets sake. What does an iPhone do that any other equivalent modern slab won't do? (Hint nothing) But they produce some fancy snow ball throwing commercial or heart wrenching iPad commercial with a Grandpa missing his wife and create desire in users to believe their products are the ones that can create and do this. That's marketing 101 and their exceptional at it.

    BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile were the only device to have a PKB and the exceptional swiping and shortcut capabilities. (and HUB) I can ONLY imagine how cool Apple's or Samsung's marketing team would have made a Key device appear.
    01-18-20 12:11 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    People sold "pet rocks" for pets sake. What does an iPhone do that any other equivalent modern slab won't do? (Hint nothing) But they produce some fancy snow ball throwing commercial or heart wrenching iPad commercial with a Grandpa missing his wife and create desire in users to believe their products are the ones that can create and do this. That's marketing 101 and their exceptional at it.

    BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile were the only device to have a PKB and the exceptional swiping and shortcut capabilities. (and HUB) I can ONLY imagine how cool Apple's or Samsung's marketing team would have made a Key device appear.
    Pet rocks were a fad that gave people pleasure. Great marketing for a hilarious product. But if it hadn't sold in its test markets, you would never have heard of it.

    You're looking at successful products and claiming that if unsuccessful products spent the same on advertising they would be just as successful. If that's the case, why didn't we see "Pet Dirt" or "Pet Sticks" do just as well?

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    01-18-20 12:15 PM
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