06-08-19 09:06 PM
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  1. towngirl's Avatar
    Sure they can make slabs. They’re just the worst sellers and least competitive of all the forms that BBMo and the other licensees have produced.
    That's why I think they need to better the specs, to sell. Especially the camera
    05-10-19 08:46 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That's why I think they need to better the specs, to sell. Especially the camera
    Even worse sales would result. BBMo/TCL isn’t stupid. The BB licensees along with BB have extensive internal sales data at their disposal. The article on CB front page about decline of sales is primarily in the premium segment. Asking for a premium BB licensed device to most consumers is like premium economy car.
    towngirl and Laura Knotek like this.
    05-10-19 09:03 PM
  3. towngirl's Avatar
    Even worse sales would result. BBMo/TCL isn’t stupid. The BB licensees along with BB have extensive internal sales data at their disposal. The article on CB front page about decline of sales is primarily in the premium segment.
    I wouldn't say they have had a premium version. They have had a barely moderate version compared to what is out there. So you have to be careful on the price point.
    05-11-19 08:39 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I wouldn't say they have had a premium version. They have had a barely moderate version compared to what is out there. So you have to be careful on the price point.
    I'm not saying there's a premium intentionally as BBMo could only have done worse than Motion in midtier sales. BBMo pursued VKB sales in the correct VKB growth segment with the right device. The only problem is the BBTax makes them less competitive even in that segment.

    The premium VKB segment would have just been that much bigger of a disaster since that segment is under extreme pressure from pricing and shrinking volume. It would be like focusing on cars when everyone is buying trucks and suvs.
    05-11-19 11:53 AM
  5. towngirl's Avatar
    If they can't make a decent phone, ram, camera, battery, for this much, then it doesn't look good.

    The huawei 20 pro was this expensive (now it's $815).

    Canada price.

    I keep looking at these phones but don't buy them. Still hoping BB makes my dream phone.

    I think you wants a cheaper phone... and they are too much, now a days...

    But do you want good or something that most won't buy.

    You are wanting BB to fail.Motion users - What is making you think of upgrading?-screenshot_20190511-165356-1-.jpeg
    05-11-19 04:06 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    If they can't make a decent phone, ram, camera, battery, for this much, then it doesn't look good.

    The huawei 20 pro was this expensive (now it's $815).

    Canada price.

    I keep looking at these phones but don't buy them. Still hoping BB makes my dream phone.

    I think you wants a cheaper phone... and they are too much, now a days...

    But do you want good or something that most won't buy.

    You are wanting BB to fail.Click image for larger version. 

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    You have to value what BlackBerry brings to the table - physical keyboard and/or added security. If you don't value those things, there is no reason not to go with something else.

    Hard to beat a Nokia 7.1 or 8 for around $350 USD.
    05-11-19 04:46 PM
  7. towngirl's Avatar
    Security - is it difference now they use android? It was real good with their OS. And they way they make use of the keyboard (much better than most phones).

    I support what BB brings to the table but that isn't JUST physical keyboard. That's what you want it to be. And that was made so, by BB people.

    It was, first, a secure device. When they moved away from keyboard phones, you wanted BB to remain keyboard.

    However, if an awesome camera, I could excuse everything else. lol

    I love using BB phones. I like the Hub they made. I LOVE how the keyboard (physical or glass) works. And the cap on a letter makes it large. Or one swipe erases)

    At this point, I want them to make a phone everyone will want. So they survive. I do not care if it's a slab or physical keyboard. (Although I do love that one dream phone lol).

    BB is close to me (town-wise). Every since I finished high school I though about working there (truth is, I would never leave my home town and I wasn't driving that far every day.. 40-45 mins).

    It's a Canadian company. I try to buy Canadian, when I can. Do extra research to make sure I bought a Canadian BB-Q when they same at the store was sold, made is US.. I went 40mins to a store to buy the right one, that WAS Canadian.

    I absolutely want it to survive - I just don't think it's happening. I figure an awesome phone would help. (Regardless if it's keyboard or not.)
    05-11-19 05:38 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Security - is it difference now they use android? It was real good with their OS. And they way they make use of the keyboard (much better than most phones).

    I support what BB brings to the table but that isn't JUST physical keyboard. That's what you want it to be. And that was made so, by BB people.

    It was, first, a secure device. When they moved away from keyboard phones, you wanted BB to remain keyboard.

    However, if an awesome camera, I could excuse everything else. lol

    I love using BB phones. I like the Hub they made. I LOVE how the keyboard (physical or glass) works. And the cap on a letter makes it large. Or one swipe erases)

    At this point, I want them to make a phone everyone will want. So they survive. I do not care if it's a slab or physical keyboard. (Although I do love that one dream phone lol).

    BB is close to me (town-wise). Every since I finished high school I though about working there (truth is, I would never leave my home town and I wasn't driving that far every day.. 40-45 mins).

    It's a Canadian company. I try to buy Canadian, when I can. Do extra research to make sure I bought a Canadian BB-Q when they same at the store was sold, made is US.. I went 40mins to a store to buy the right one, that WAS Canadian.

    I absolutely want it to survive - I just don't think it's happening. I figure an awesome phone would help. (Regardless if it's keyboard or not.)
    Fact is, they can't be competitive based on their economies of scale and licencing fees.

    As I said, if you don't value the physical keyboard and/or added security, there is no reason to consider BBMo, as you can add the HUB to other devices.

    As far as security is concerned, take a look here:
    http://help.blackberry.com/en/securi...y-Guide-en.pdf
    05-11-19 05:44 PM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If they can't make a decent phone, ram, camera, battery, for this much, then it doesn't look good.

    The huawei 20 pro was this expensive (now it's $815).

    Canada price.

    I keep looking at these phones but don't buy them. Still hoping BB makes my dream phone.

    I think you wants a cheaper phone... and they are too much, now a days...

    But do you want good or something that most won't buy.

    You are wanting BB to fail.Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	27 
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    I didn't want BB to fail or exit hardware but they did since they're just too little to compete in the mobile hardware space. BBMo is owned by a much larger company and I don't want their failure either. BBMo parent is a much larger company but they're not dedicating assets to mobile either.

    Premium hardware isn't the space to be anymore. Even if that wasn't the case, the economic commitment TCL would have to make for anything close to impact would be in the USD $billions as in more than LG is currently spending and not succeeding.

    If you're waiting for a BBMo premium VKB, probably going to be waiting awhile. Motion didn't even make it to carrier USA side. I would have purchased. Bought iPhone XR to satisfy my VKB fix.
    towngirl likes this.
    05-11-19 05:50 PM
  10. towngirl's Avatar
    Fact is, they can't be competitive based on their economies of scale and licencing fees.

    As I said, if you don't value the physical keyboard and/or added security, there is no reason to consider BBMo, as you can add the HUB to other devices.

    As far as security is concerned, take a look here:
    http://help.blackberry.com/en/securi...y-Guide-en.pdf
    Thanks for the link.

    I value the physical keyboard but mostly security… and a few other things.

    But if they can’t competitive based on licencing fees, that is sad for BB.

    I bought just for keyboard before I had priv. (When people laughed at me for it lol). But I loved the keyboard. After having a priv, I am OK with slab or keyboard. I am not stuck.

    I don’t think “value the physical keyboard” is what it’s all about ….. if you want BB to survive. But I totally understand how you feel about that.

    We want BB to survive for different reasons. For many, it’s the keyboard / security. For me, I love the Company, Security, Canadian, and want that to survive. Which is Perfectly OK that we disagree, but want the same thing.
    05-11-19 06:13 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Thanks for the link.

    I value the physical keyboard but mostly security… and a few other things.

    But if they can’t competitive based on licencing fees, that is sad for BB.

    I bought just for keyboard before I had priv. (When people laughed at me for it lol). But I loved the keyboard. After having a priv, I am OK with slab or keyboard. I am not stuck.

    I don’t think “value the physical keyboard” is what it’s all about ….. if you want BB to survive. But I totally understand how you feel about that.

    We want BB to survive for different reasons. For many, it’s the keyboard / security. For me, I love the Company, Security, Canadian, and want that to survive. Which is Perfectly OK that we disagree, but want the same thing.
    I only speak to the differentiating features of a BBMo device, and the attached value proposition. Of course, you can always add a desire to support the company as an external factor as well.

    But don't forget, BlackBerry in Canada is only a small vendor in the BBMo device business. BlackBerry is doing just fine regardless of (perhaps even despite) the smartphone business.
    05-11-19 06:24 PM
  12. towngirl's Avatar
    Yes. They moved on to other things. Which is good for them. BB as a business, will do well.
    Phones - I want them to survive lol
    05-11-19 06:29 PM
  13. Gordon Young1's Avatar
    I enjoy my Motion and sure, it has quirks that can been irritating but there are aspects in Samsung and Apple that can be equally irritating. I use the camera and not unhappy but will use my SRL when doing serious photography.
    However, and there is always a 'however ', I do wish a 'son of Motion' does evolve soon, even it it's only to satisfy the camera complains so we can move on, and focus on the serous issues the future brings. Ergonomically, I am happy with the Motion design and the Key2 is awkward in my hand. At the end of the day, it's the feel of a phone that is a major deciding factor so please let us hear plans for a Motion 2.
    05-11-19 10:37 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    'son of Motion' does evolve soon
    I see what you did there with your interesting choice of words.

    Unfortunately the sales failure of the Aurora, Motion and Evolve has all but assured that BB licensees are done with VKB hardware.
    05-12-19 08:41 AM
  15. Avenzuno's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile should follow Google's lead with the Pixel 3a. Negotiate with Sony to get a fantastic camera, then build around that by adding among other things BlackBerry Android software, including the wonderful keyboard, DTEK, locker, etc. Price the device in the same range as the 3a, and you've got a winner for a Motion successor.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    05-12-19 12:21 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile should follow Google's lead with the Pixel 3a. Negotiate with Sony to get a fantastic camera, then build around that by adding among other things BlackBerry Android software, including the wonderful keyboard, DTEK, locker, etc. Price the device in the same range as the 3a, and you've got a winner for a Motion successor.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    Lack of eonomies of scale and licencing fees prevent them from even getting within shooting distance of the Pixel 3a.
    05-12-19 01:34 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile should follow Google's lead with the Pixel 3a. Negotiate with Sony to get a fantastic camera, then build around that by adding among other things BlackBerry Android software, including the wonderful keyboard, DTEK, locker, etc. Price the device in the same range as the 3a, and you've got a winner for a Motion successor.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    Besides conite’s explanation, suffice to say that BBMo does know it’s probabilities of success and failure with each device form and various spec levels.
    05-12-19 02:18 PM
  18. Elky64's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile should follow Google's lead with the Pixel 3a. Negotiate with Sony to get a fantastic camera, then build around that by adding among other things BlackBerry Android software, including the wonderful keyboard, DTEK, locker, etc. Price the device in the same range as the 3a, and you've got a winner for a Motion successor.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    From what I've seen that ain't ever happening. Wishful thinking but nope.
    05-12-19 02:46 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    There's less than a dozen people on the planet who are experts in properly tuning the post-processing software for a smartphone camera, and 2/3 of them work for Apple, Samsung, LG, and Google. It's a highly-specific, highly-technical art, and those people are highly in demand and command huge salaries. It's not enough to simply buy the camera module, anymore than buying a crate engine will assure a winning race car. The tuning is where the magic happens.

    Any smartphone camera should be capable of decent performance outside in the day shooting a non-moving subject. The real trick is to be able to shoot fast-moving subjects and keeping them in focus, and to be able to shoot indoors in poor lighting and still end up with a good photo. Tons of work goes into doing those things well, both in controlling the camera and in the post-processing.

    Between the expense and the availability, it's not trivial to get one of those people to work on your phone cameras...
    Jake2826 and John Albert like this.
    05-12-19 05:42 PM
  20. scrannel's Avatar
    The Motion was, for me at least, the obvious choice moving from the Z30 -- Hub, etc. But also, importantly, the Godzilla battery. Phone has performed well, camera is very much a "whatever" for me.
    skilas likes this.
    05-13-19 02:35 AM
  21. Crazed_BB_Fanatic's Avatar
    You cannot buy VKB from BlackBerry. BlackBerry does not sell their keyboard to non BlackBerry phones. All the BlackBerry Hub suites are for sale however.

    If you were to pirate BlackBerry suite to get the keyboard, BlackBerry password keeper will not sync to BlackBerry server.

    With a non BlackBerry phone you gotta make a choice between BlackBerry keyboard and the BlackBerry password keeper synchronization.
    But why not make the VKB available for other devices. I used to love the PKB. But getting older and after the Z10 I became a fan of the VKB.
    What always kept me with BB was the email services, Hub, security and the keyboard (in the good old days the PKB and now the VKB).

    I don't give a hoot about the camera like others do. It makes good enough pictures for me.

    BB seems to be focused on the keyboards again: KeyOne, Key2, soon Key3, then Key4 and so on. Those who have adjusted to touch phones are left behind. If BB walks away from the touch phone business and forces people like me to abandon BB after some 20 years why not make the VKB available?
    06-05-19 09:50 PM
  22. Crazed_BB_Fanatic's Avatar
    Internal storage is what is making me look around at other models.

    Also, no fault of the device itself, lack of integration with my car (BMW).

    The internal storage issue is because the device itself uses it for processing too! I have too many apps. I shouldn't have to delete apps to make space for the phone to function properly. People send me attachments/pictures and Messages does not display them properly. Not sure if its the phone or my carrier (TMO) but when I hard reset, they show up.

    Integration with my car: No Android Auto in BMW. No fault of the phone but I would LOVE to use Waze on my big car screen versus through the phone.

    My ideal Motion replacement would be another Motion with way more memory and for BMW to have Android Auto integration.

    Best camera on a BlackBerry was the Priv (IMHO) and that was the only thing I liked on that phone. Any extended activity on that phone turned it into a flaming brick! I used the PKB ZERO TIMES while I owned it.
    Can you tell us what car you are driving?

    06-05-19 09:56 PM
  23. Bravestar79's Avatar
    I'm in Year 2 of my Motion, having got it Dec 2017. It's a good phone. But I find I won't be able to keep it going like my Z30 which was +4 years.

    The phone is very solid, and has been reliable. But I find a few quirks are pushing me to look at upgrading, or at least watch the Key2 for a price drop.

    Camera is the main one. As someone with young kids who takes photos of them all the time, I find the Motion camera just ok. I constantly have to switch it to manual mode to adjust the lighting, as the auto setting often washes out all the colours. Video has been hit and miss. Sometimes slightly blurry, other crystal clear. The microphone for videos has been terrible. My voice while holding the camera is good, but you can barely hear my kids on the other side of the room. I never noticed at the time, but I recently went through my videos from this past summer, and was surprised with the quality of some of them.

    Build Quality. I think the build quality is pretty good. I love the look of the alum trim, but hate holding it because I find it slides out of my hands easily. I still don't know why the top edge is rounded. and With plastic! It just feels cheap when compared to the nice alum trim. The Silver Key2 on the other hand looks so damn good.

    Finger print sensor. I started using this a couple months ago. I find it's ok. It's 50/50 whether it works the first time. And if it doesn't, it's often it will keep reading negative, and I will need to use the passcode. It's a small thing. but when technology doesn't work 100% of the time, it's just so frustrating.

    Battery. It's ok for me. But I'm worried an "upgrade" will get me less. I'm sitting at 45% at 3:30p. I need to charge every day. I'm sure moving to another device will likely get me less battery.

    Overall, everything else has been good, or has simply not contributed to me wanting to upgrade. The camera though is the biggest sticking point, since I use it every day. And from the reviews, the Key2 camera is just ok (often said to be not as good as the Key One). Unfortunately, I do not like the Key One's pkb, so picking up a cheap Key One is not an option. And also I would prefer a Silver Key 2, which unfortunately are not offered via carriers in Canada. I would have to buy one outright, which are currently still at $829.99.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts. Anyone else have opinions, or find themselves in a situation where they've had their Motion for a bit and are starting to consider upgrading?
    I had the motion for about a month or so. I really love the phone but ultimately I return to the PKB. I loved the battery life of the motion it was just insane. You are right about the phone feeling slippery. I have the key 2 silver now and this will be my phone for quite awhile. I would suggest getting this phones it's fantastic and better than the motion
    06-06-19 07:58 AM
  24. skilas's Avatar
    I had the motion for about a month or so. I really love the phone but ultimately I return to the PKB. I loved the battery life of the motion it was just insane. You are right about the phone feeling slippery. I have the key 2 silver now and this will be my phone for quite awhile. I would suggest getting this phones it's fantastic and better than the motion
    Key2 Silver is a phone I would buy tomorrow if I could find it at a decent price. But it's a year old, and no discounts yet. Worse, it's out of stock at all my typical retailers. Everyone is pushing the Key2 LE. I may settle for the Key2 Black, but again, I can't bring myself to pay full retail (even on a carrier) for a year old phone. Otherwise, I should have just gotten it on day 1.
    06-07-19 12:49 PM
  25. MuzDownUnder's Avatar
    1. the camera, the end.

    Your phone goes with you everywhere, you end up taking spontaneous photos only to find the quality in the Motion to be poor. It's important to me but not everyone. Everything else about the Motion is great. sure the fingerprint sensor could be more accurate and CPU could be highs spec'd but it's good.

    Doesn't sound like TCL or Blackberry or whoever the 3rd party is would need that much more effort to make the Motion2.

    I will wait till September to see if there is one rumoured this year, if not it will be the first time in 15 years I won't be using a BlackBerry.

    Fingers crossed.
    06-08-19 07:16 AM
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