10-20-17 06:14 PM
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  1. Lincoln Allen's Avatar
    Here is what is going to happen. They will release the motion with android 7. And then couple months later we will start complaining why no android 8. Then 1 year later when android 9 is out they will give us android 8 and say thats it we will not update the phone anymore. I will not buy blackberry anymore. I am writing this from my priv that has the same story.
    I think your just trying to take your anger of the Priv not getting android 7 on the BlackBerry Motion. I get it, it was a major screw over to not give you 7 on the Priv but I don't think BlackBerry is gonna make that mistake again with the KEYone and the Motion
    10-11-17 10:50 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think your just trying to take your anger of the Priv not getting android 7 on the BlackBerry Motion. I get it, it was a major screw over to not give you 7 on the Priv but I don't think BlackBerry is gonna make that mistake again with the KEYone and the Motion
    Of course not. It's a completely different OEM.
    10-11-17 10:53 PM
  3. mister2d's Avatar
    ... I was referring to the person who claimed that you can run an automated script to harden Android. Samsung doesn't do that, and neither does BlackBerry because is wouldn't work.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    For the record, I said automated process. As in a repeatable process. Minions don't exist at these companies hardening each phone by hand manually. Lol
    10-12-17 12:37 AM
  4. mrsimon's Avatar
    general joe public doesn't buy BlackBerry phones either.
    I just did. I m not into OSs. If it all works. If the security upgrades work on all the OSs why worry about new ones? I've never noticed these things.
    Enlighten me please.
    TCM01 likes this.
    10-12-17 03:35 AM
  5. tickerguy's Avatar
    If you're replying to me, I'm just fine with Marshmallow on my DTEK hardware. That's been my point. It was optimized with Marshmallow at time of production. I'd just assume buy the Motion for Nougat since that's been out for awhile and it's been optimized for Motion.

    Future proofing and planned obsolescence are part of Android. I accept planned obsolescence.
    No, I'm not. I in fact would like Nougat on my DTEK 60, but I also understand that the hardening that BlackBerry does is a hell of a lot more complicated going into "N" than it was with "M".

    Yes, they've done it (twice now -- for the KeyOne and for the Motion) so it's now "just the drivers" that need to be re-integrated and re-hardened (for the DTEK, if they do it at all) but that's a non-trivial amount of work. "N" changed the encryption model materially in going to a file-based encryption system instead of full-disk based. FDE is materially simpler but of course has no granularity; where it gets amusing is the boot process. File-by-file has its own issues in that leakage of information is rather difficult to control in a fashion that doesn't materially weaken the final outcome. You can't just accept that Google did it right if you're serious about security, especially considering the history (just go look at the monthly CVE list for a whole litany of reasons NOT to believe their code is ok.)

    One of the biggest security issues with Android generally is the driver interface from the *******-child Java garbage that Android runs. The interface between the base-level components and the higher level APIs that Android provides to apps is quite a bit more complicated than you might think it is. It doesn't help that Android was originally written in a fashion akin to sticking 100 high school monkey-brain idiots in a gym full of computers for a week, with some of the worst offenses being in that horrifying thing called "mediaserver. "

    In short the architecture sucks. It is very easy to have this happen at the lower levels of an operating system and have everything *appears* to be ok when your top-level API is self-typing and does its own heap management (e.g. Java in this case.) The same sort of stupidity has led to horrifying security problems in the Unix world with php applications, for the same basic reason.

    If you write in "C" you don't get away with this sort of nonsense because the code will blow up if you do silly things like fail to bounds-check or leave dangling memory allocations around, and it usually does so often and quickly enough that the foolishness of your design becomes apparent and thus you have a need to fix it. In short being lazy or just plain incompetent doesn't lead to a veneer of everything being ok when you, as the programmer, are forced to do things the right way or suffer the pain of the software crashing out from under you.

    I give BlackBerry a lot of credit in that none of their Android devices from the Priv forward have been rooted, even on a non-persistent basis. Those who poo-poo this and claim to have a decent amount of programming experience ought to grab a copy of AOSP and dig around in it for a while; they might reassess their "oh that's not hard" proclamations. The fact is that Android is comprised of a lot of code and most of it stinks.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and krazyatom like this.
    10-12-17 07:48 AM
  6. krazyatom's Avatar
    My iPad mini 1 is on IOS 9.3.5 but was better on IOS 7 and 8. That's my point though. I don't want Android OS update beyond 1 from initial since optimization degrades. Lollipop to Marshmallow or Marshmallow to Nougat is enough for me.
    That make sense. IPad mini 1 is 2012 device started with ios 6 and ended with ios 9.3.5. I stoll have iPad mini 1 and it's my alarm clock lol. Starting from IPhone 5s (2013) received 3 OS updates so far. It started with ios 7 and now ios 11. IPhone 5s is still very fluid and we'll optimized. Even nexus 6 (2014) with nougat is very good IMO. My point is that modern days of smartphone can be upgraded for 3 OS updates with ease. Google Pixel 2 will get 3 OS updates and that's not a bad thing at all.
    10-12-17 12:09 PM
  7. TCM01's Avatar
    Yeah. same goes with LG v30, Samsung Note 8, even the Essential phone is release with Nougat with an upgrade note to Oreo. Your point is?
    Ridiculous post.
    10-12-17 12:31 PM
  8. TCM01's Avatar
    I just did. I m not into OSs. If it all works. If the security upgrades work on all the OSs why worry about new ones? I've never noticed these things.
    Enlighten me please.
    Agree - the vast majority of phone users don't the OS in their phone nor do they care. Does the camera work to post selfies on FB and Instagram.
    10-12-17 12:32 PM
  9. TCM01's Avatar
    That make sense. IPad mini 1 is 2012 device started with ios 6 and ended with ios 9.3.5. I stoll have iPad mini 1 and it's my alarm clock lol. Starting from IPhone 5s (2013) received 3 OS updates so far. It started with ios 7 and now ios 11. IPhone 5s is still very fluid and we'll optimized. Even nexus 6 (2014) with nougat is very good IMO. My point is that modern days of smartphone can be upgraded for 3 OS updates with ease. Google Pixel 2 will get 3 OS updates and that's not a bad thing at all.
    The manufacturers know that the majority of users lease their phones and upgrade every couple years. The AVG consumer is lucky to make it to two OS upgrades before trading it in for a new model.
    10-12-17 12:35 PM
  10. TCM01's Avatar
    Well id you want at least 2 OS updates, blackberry isn’t for you. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is no OS updates at all. My expectation for blackberry is not high anymore.
    The AVG consumer doesn't keep their phone long enough for two OS updates. The average consumer trades in their leased phone for a new one before a 2nd update. In addition, the average consumer has no idea what OS is on their phone. Their big concern is taking selfies for FB and Instagram.
    10-12-17 12:40 PM
  11. SolarBear28's Avatar
    There are probably hundreds of million of devices that won't even make past marshmallow in the Android world yet people are using them just fine. Not sure what you mean by "relevant".
    Other companies may not support their devices very well, but that doesn't mean it's ok for BlackBerry to follow their lead. Google adds new security features (in Oreo apps now show web content in a sandbox separate from app data) and usability enhancements (like notification channels) every year.

    I understand BlackBerry's extra work on the OS takes time, I'm not expecting Google Pixel 2 levels of support. But Android P is less than a year away, a phone launched today (and expected to cost over $550 CAD) should get an update to Android P sometime in the future imo.
    10-12-17 12:40 PM
  12. TCM01's Avatar
    Ah yes, change your argument when your others have been pointed out to have more holes than swiss cheese, cool. Do tell, what security features are you missing out on that are relevant to end users by not running Oreo out of the box? I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm well aware of a few benefits (Project Treble, Secure Computing filters, etc), but at this point given that BlackBerry's Android still hasn't been rooted, let alone exploited in any demonstrable way from any other versions of Android, what does Oreo contain that you MUST have it to ensure your safety? Setting aside the fact that you seem to not have any interest in the Motion anyway, so naturally, you won't have to worry about it as you won't have one.
    B1aze- this isn't fair debate. Your response has logic and common sense behind it.
    10-12-17 12:47 PM
  13. krazyatom's Avatar
    The AVG consumer doesn't keep their phone long enough for two OS updates. The average consumer trades in their leased phone for a new one before a 2nd update. In addition, the average consumer has no idea what OS is on their phone. Their big concern is taking selfies for FB and Instagram.
    But blackberry motion is aimed for corporate /enterprise users. Corporate /enterprise user doesn't change their phone every year!
    10-12-17 12:51 PM
  14. ray689's Avatar
    Other companies may not support their devices very well, but that doesn't mean it's ok for BlackBerry to follow their lead. Google adds new security features (in Oreo apps now show web content in a sandbox separate from app data) and usability enhancements (like notification channels) every year.

    I understand BlackBerry's extra work on the OS takes time, I'm not expecting Google Pixel 2 levels of support. But Android P is less than a year away, a phone launched today (and expected to cost over $550 CAD) should get an update to Android P sometime in the future imo.
    The Motion will get Android O if they have already confirmed it for the KEYone.
    10-12-17 12:56 PM
  15. SolarBear28's Avatar
    And what makes you think the Motion won't get Android O if they have already confirmed it for the KEYone?
    I think BlackBerry has confirmed Android O for motion, I'm concerned about Android P. Nokia has confirmed it for all their phones.
    10-12-17 12:59 PM
  16. ray689's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry has confirmed Android O for motion, I'm concerned about Android P. Nokia has confirmed it for all their phones.
    Yes I misread your post initially. I actually don't think it will get P but it should.
    10-12-17 01:02 PM
  17. krazyatom's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry has confirmed Android O for motion, I'm concerned about Android P. Nokia has confirmed it for all their phones.
    Unfortunately, motion willing not get a android P unless they have million sold.
    10-12-17 01:04 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That make sense. IPad mini 1 is 2012 device started with ios 6 and ended with ios 9.3.5. I stoll have iPad mini 1 and it's my alarm clock lol. Starting from IPhone 5s (2013) received 3 OS updates so far. It started with ios 7 and now ios 11. IPhone 5s is still very fluid and we'll optimized. Even nexus 6 (2014) with nougat is very good IMO. My point is that modern days of smartphone can be upgraded for 3 OS updates with ease. Google Pixel 2 will get 3 OS updates and that's not a bad thing at all.
    I agree with the number of updates on IOS but it's that last one which always seems to be one too many. IOS 9 seemed too heavy for the mini 1 and IOS 10 seemed too much for iPhone 5.
    Mansuet likes this.
    10-12-17 02:23 PM
  19. AmritD's Avatar
    Unfortunately, motion willing not get a android P unless they have million sold.
    BlackBerry are yet to sell a million of ALL of their Android offerings.
    Nokia already has.
    Posted via CB10
    krazyatom likes this.
    10-12-17 02:26 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For the record, I said automated process. As in a repeatable process. Minions don't exist at these companies hardening each phone by hand manually. Lol
    Correct, but it can take months to create that process for the first phone. After that, it's obviously repeatable.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-15-17 11:52 AM
  21. A Noise Annoys's Avatar
    BlackBerry are yet to sell a million of ALL of their Android offerings.
    Nokia already has.
    Posted via CB10
    I would love to know how you know this.

    Posted via CB10
    10-15-17 01:04 PM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    I would love to know how you know this.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know about BlackBerry numbers but here's a link for Nokia,

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Noki...t-year_id98906

    The crazy thing is in some markets the BlackBerry brand is probably as well regarded as Nokia among consumers, if devices are able to launch at similar pricepoints I'm sure they'd do well.
    10-15-17 01:34 PM
  23. MPdeH's Avatar
    People should stop complaining about these OS updates. What happened is that BlackBerry has stopped making hardware phone. With BlackBerry Mobile, they have set up a new business with new policies etc. I think with KEYone and Motion BlackBerry's update policies will be much better
    10-15-17 01:39 PM
  24. Mansuet's Avatar
    Great back and forth arguments only on Crackberry forums!
    10-20-17 06:14 PM
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