1. app_Developer's Avatar
    Occam's Razor.

    It actually IS harder than you think, OR there is either a huge conspiracy or a group of hopelessly incompetent BlackBerry developers.
    Or the project has very low funding (shoe string level), and isn't really a very high priority for BlackBerry, Ltd.

    If I were a top engineer at BB, I'd probably be working on something more important like QNX Auto. The Android project may be staffed with interns for all we know.
    chi-town311 likes this.
    10-11-17 11:49 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    That the BlackBerry phones haven't been rooted yet is fairly decent evidence that they've taken effective action at "wrapping" dangerous things in a way that prevents them from being used. Then again I don't have the ability to look at their repos and evaluate what they did; I'm only looking at results (or in this case the last thereof by those who would use said holes to gain root, even for non-nefarious purpose.)
    That's a little problematic because there are so few BBAndroid phones out there that the incentive to research and publish an exploit is extremely low.

    I'd rather BB was more transparent about the scope of their hardening. Or maybe they could sponsor a bounty or pay for white hat research. Maybe BB doesn't take BBAndroid seriously enough to do any of this.

    No one has ever broken into my house. That doesn't prove that I have world-class security. It just means well funded criminal enterprises have very little reason to go after it.
    10-11-17 11:54 AM
  3. Granehill's Avatar
    Well, it's easy to say; You are wrong😁
    10-11-17 12:00 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Or the project has very low funding (shoe string level), and isn't really a very high priority for BlackBerry, Ltd.

    If I were a top engineer at BB, I'd probably be working on something more important like QNX Auto. The Android project may be staffed with interns for all we know.
    That is not my impression from the info I have. Not at all.
    10-11-17 12:01 PM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Samsung - As far as I know they have it in beta and have been testing it for about a month for the Galaxy line, and have been pushing out a few App updates that will support OREO. That said Samsung probable has hundreds working on both Android and their Apps, but aren't launching anything with OREO this month. At this point I personally doubt BlackBerry could afford more than a dozen developers.

    As for the security.... I think too many here give BlackBerry credit where credit isn't due. They are using tools provided by Qualcomm and Google to archive what they are doing for the most part. Think Samsung purposely doesn't lock it's Boot Rom - as they and other OEMs view that as a negative for their overall consumer successes. For the very few devices that are used by Enterprise, Samsung has their Warranty Bit to protect user data if someone tries to Root a stolen phone. That along with a proper UEM... is anything else really necessary for that niche?

    I expect BlackBerry Mobile's lack of a roadmap for OREO (or really anything), means it will come.... when it comes. I suspect the "plan" will be to use the higher end all touch as a talking point at CES and MWC, release it soon after with OREO and then offer updates to the existing lines. They won't be the last one issuing updates, nor will the be the first.
    10-11-17 12:04 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The market for cybersecurity is about $150 billion, so if it's that easy to harden Android for enterprise, why aren't more companies doing it?

    They must all want BlackBerry to succeed!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-11-17 12:04 PM
  7. tickerguy's Avatar
    That's a little problematic because there are so few BBAndroid phones out there that the incentive to research and publish an exploit is extremely low.

    I'd rather BB was more transparent about the scope of their hardening. Or maybe they could sponsor a bounty or pay for white hat research. Maybe BB doesn't take BBAndroid seriously enough to do any of this.

    No one has ever broken into my house. That doesn't prove that I have world-class security. It just means well funded criminal enterprises have very little reason to go after it.
    There was an active bounty put on breaking the Priv.

    It has never been collected; as far as I know it still stands. I took a reasonable shot at it (why not -- money is money) -- and failed.

    Never mind the street cred from cracking an "unbreakable" phone. I remind you that the BlackPhone sold (far) fewer units than the Priv did, yet someone did break into that one (and got quite the bragging rights in doing so.)
    app_Developer and chi-town311 like this.
    10-11-17 12:30 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The market for cybersecurity is about $150 billion, so if it's that easy to harden Android for enterprise, why aren't more companies doing it?

    They must all want BlackBerry to succeed!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Because there is no market for it?

    Wasn't a market for BB10
    Wasn't a market for Silent Circle
    Wasn't a market for Boeing, Darpa or a dozen other to keep working on secure smartphones.
    Wasn't a market for Samsung to bother doing more than they have.
    Hasn't been much of a market for the KEYone yet... haven't heard of even one major "win".

    CyberSecurity might be worth BILLIONS... but what is the market for smartphones that are possible/maybe a little better than Samsung KNOX?

    Thing is it's about the software, not the hardware... hopefully BlackBerry's UEM and other Enterprise solutions will help them collect a modest portion of those billions.
    10-11-17 12:38 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    There was an active bounty put on breaking the Priv.
    Oh, I didn't know that. That's good to hear.

    Never mind the street cred from cracking an "unbreakable" phone. I remind you that the BlackPhone sold (far) fewer units than the Priv did, yet someone did break into that one (and got quite the bragging rights in doing so.)
    That is true.
    10-11-17 02:53 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Because there is no market for it?

    Wasn't a market for BB10
    Wasn't a market for Silent Circle
    Wasn't a market for Boeing, Darpa or a dozen other to keep working on secure smartphones.
    Wasn't a market for Samsung to bother doing more than they have.
    Hasn't been much of a market for the KEYone yet... haven't heard of even one major "win".

    CyberSecurity might be worth BILLIONS... but what is the market for smartphones that are possible/maybe a little better than Samsung KNOX?

    Thing is it's about the software, not the hardware... hopefully BlackBerry's UEM and other Enterprise solutions will help them collect a modest portion of those billions.
    I agree with you. It's about the software, and I think Knox and BlackBerry are in the same class, security wise. I was referring to the person who claimed that you can run an automated script to harden Android. Samsung doesn't do that, and neither does BlackBerry because is wouldn't work.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    10-11-17 04:15 PM
  11. aecgda's Avatar
    They were recently dumped in their lap, yes. But we have no idea what terms were agreed to. I doubt TCL would have committed to updating them to Nougat when they are launching their own slab. I doubt even more that BlackBerry would have paid them extra to do it.
    So why didn't they tell people who paid £500 for it and expected otherwise that this was going to happen?
    10-11-17 04:22 PM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Here is what is going to happen. They will release the motion with android 7. And then couple months later we will start complaining why no android 8. Then 1 year later when android 9 is out they will give us android 8 and say thats it we will not update the phone anymore. I will not buy blackberry anymore. I am writing this from my priv that has the same story.
    Please inform us of which phone launched since the release of Oreo is coming with Oreo, aside from the Pixel 2?

    We'll wait.

    At best, people will get beta releases over the next few months. Essential, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei, etc. Haven't even quite yet hit their beta releases for Oreo and you're complaining about a device launching with 7.1.1, a perfectly fine and stable release. All of the awaited releases of this year, S8, S8 Plus, Essential Phone even the LGV30 which has started shipping to most folks last week, shipped with 7.1.1 and are left with the promise of Oreo coming as a future upgrade.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and TCM01 like this.
    10-11-17 04:25 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    So why didn't they tell people who paid £500 for it and expected otherwise that this was going to happen?
    What part?

    Support and patches continue with TCL, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    With regards to Nougat, no statement was ever made about it coming to the DTEKs, despite what some people's expectations might have been. So the transfer of responsibility doesn't really factor in.
    10-11-17 04:25 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So why didn't they tell people who paid £500 for it and expected otherwise that this was going to happen?
    There is no rational reason for them to have expected it. Unless a company explicitly states that they will offer a version upgrade for a phone, consumers should assume they will not.

    People want to hold BlackBerry accountable for their own overly optimistic attitudes that "monthly updates " somehow included version upgrades.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-11-17 04:28 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    So why didn't they tell people who paid £500 for it and expected otherwise that this was going to happen?
    Buyer has to assume some responsibility, you choose to buy a product from a company that clearly said they were thinking of going out of business (for the DTEK60 it was EOL at launch).... well what exactly did you expect?

    We don't know what TCL agreed to do for the DTEKS... don't known when they agreed to start - most still are getting support from BlackBerry for hardware replacements.
    10-11-17 04:35 PM
  16. krazyatom's Avatar
    Priv received single os update.
    Dtek50 no os update.
    Dtek60 no os update.
    Aurora no os update.
    Keyone 1 os update coming.
    Motion - ?

    I think there is a reason why TCL went for same socket 625. It’s very similar to keyone software so it would be easier for blackberry developers to update motion?
    10-11-17 04:38 PM
  17. mfk2901's Avatar
    Please inform us of which phone launched since the release of Oreo is coming with Oreo, aside from the Pixel 2?

    We'll wait.

    At best, people will get beta releases over the next few months. Essential, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei, etc. Haven't even quite yet hit their beta releases for Oreo and you're complaining about a device launching with 7.1.1, a perfectly fine and stable release. All of the awaited releases of this year, S8, S8 Plus, Essential Phone even the LGV30 which has started shipping to most folks last week, shipped with 7.1.1 and are left with the promise of Oreo coming as a future upgrade.
    For a company that is advertising its phones as being the most secure having an outdated os is UNACCEPTABLE
    chi-town311 likes this.
    10-11-17 04:40 PM
  18. Bla1ze's Avatar
    For a company that is advertising its phones as being the most secure having an outdated os is UNACCEPTABLE
    Ah yes, change your argument when your others have been pointed out to have more holes than swiss cheese, cool. Do tell, what security features are you missing out on that are relevant to end users by not running Oreo out of the box? I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm well aware of a few benefits (Project Treble, Secure Computing filters, etc), but at this point given that BlackBerry's Android still hasn't been rooted, let alone exploited in any demonstrable way from any other versions of Android, what does Oreo contain that you MUST have it to ensure your safety? Setting aside the fact that you seem to not have any interest in the Motion anyway, so naturally, you won't have to worry about it as you won't have one.
    10-11-17 04:40 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Priv received single os update.
    Dtek50 no os update.
    Dtek60 no os update.
    Aurora no os update.
    Keyone 1 os update coming.
    Motion - ?

    I think there is a reason why TCL went for same socket 625. It’s very similar to keyone software so it would be easier for blackberry developers to update motion?
    TCL I'm sure got a bulk deal for the 625. Don't forget the 626 was mostly vapour, and the 630 is only hitting the streets now.

    Both KEYone and Motion are getting Oreo.

    Aurora got the 7.1.1 update from 7.0.
    10-11-17 04:41 PM
  20. mfk2901's Avatar
    Please inform us of which phone launched since the release of Oreo is coming with Oreo, aside from the Pixel 2?

    We'll wait.

    At best, people will get beta releases over the next few months. Essential, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei, etc. Haven't even quite yet hit their beta releases for Oreo and you're complaining about a device launching with 7.1.1, a perfectly fine and stable release. All of the awaited releases of this year, S8, S8 Plus, Essential Phone even the LGV30 which has started shipping to most folks last week, shipped with 7.1.1 and are left with the promise of Oreo coming as a future upgrade.
    Also all those phones you mentioned will undoubtedly get at least 2-3 major os updates. And they never advertise their phones as being secure and BS like that
    10-11-17 04:53 PM
  21. mfk2901's Avatar
    Ah yes, change your argument when your others have been pointed out to have more holes than swiss cheese, cool. Do tell, what security features are you missing out on that are relevant to end users by not running Oreo out of the box? I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm well aware of a few benefits (Project Treble, Secure Computing filters, etc), but at this point given that BlackBerry's Android still hasn't been rooted, let alone exploited in any demonstrable way from any other versions of Android, what does Oreo contain that you MUST have it to ensure your safety? Setting aside the fact that you seem to not have any interest in the Motion anyway, so naturally, you won't have to worry about it as you won't have one.
    As a consumer paying full premium price I want the latest most secure options (as being advertised). I don't care about any technical term you are bringing to the table. You work for BlackBerry so obviously you are going to defend their every mistake. This is what blackberry is doing wrong that is making it look bad. They don't listen to the actual costumers anymore. And then they do whatever they want to shove it up our asses.
    10-11-17 04:57 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Also all those phones you mentioned will undoubtedly get at least 2-3 major os updates. And they never advertise their phones as being secure and BS like that
    Are you just making this up? LOL. Please give examples of phones that have received 3 major manufacturer updates .

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-11-17 04:57 PM
  23. mfk2901's Avatar
    Are you just making this up? LOL. Please give examples of phones that have received 3 major manufacturer updates .

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    When a galaxy s6 is running android nougat already and Priv that is much newer stuck on marshmallow you have no argument to defend Blackberry.
    10-11-17 04:59 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    When a galaxy s6 is running android nougat already and Priv that is much newer stuck on marshmallow you have no argument to defend Blackberry.
    The explanation is that BlackBerry has been out of the handset business for a year. Samsung is still in the business and wants to keep you as a customer.

    Samsung 's per user cost for the update is 1/500th than what BlackBerry's would be due to sales volumes, so the price for Samsung to keep potential future customers happy is magnitudes less even if BlackBerry was still in the business (or is concerned about future licencing revenues).
    10-11-17 05:03 PM
  25. mfk2901's Avatar
    blackberry is out of handset business is not an excuse. the people that payed over 800$ for a priv when it came out have been duped out. that's not to talk about the dtek buyers being called lab rats and the dtek phone simple test phones. let me remind you that the dtek60 was released at $550 and has not gotten any os update. how can you defend their position on this. remember also that the dteks were marketed as the most secure devices with latest software bla bla. conite I don't know if you work for this forums too but as a costumer you should never defend the corporate position.
    10-11-17 05:08 PM
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