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11-16-17 10:51 AM
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  1. krazyatom's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    I am considering a BlackBerry Motion but I have hard time deciding between these 3 smartphone. Essential and Mate 9 are currently sale on best buy. I know that they're far superior in spec than BlackBerry motion but I like BlackBerry hardened OS with security. Mate 9 battery is probably as good as motion but BlackBerry is offering high end security with free Keep update + monthly security. Any thoughts?
    11-08-17 11:49 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Personal preference. All good phones.

    Essential is hard to beat if you want an affordable spec chaser. You'd need a case though.

    Motion is more tailored to someone who wants a sturdy, secure device with long battery life. Patches will be much more reliable too.

    The Mate 9 is getting into Phablet territory. And no, the battery won't last as long - it's trying to drive a thirstier SoC with the same one as the Motion.
    Last edited by conite; 11-08-17 at 12:21 PM.
    krazyatom likes this.
    11-08-17 11:55 AM
  3. krazyatom's Avatar
    Personal preference. All good phones.

    Essential is hard to beat if you want an affordable spec chaser. You'd need a case though.

    Motion is more tailored to someone who wants a sturdy, secure device with long battery life. Patches will be much more reliable too.

    The Mate 9 is getting into Phablet territory. And no, the battery won't last as long - it's trying to drive more with the same size.
    Mate 9 and Motion both offers 4000mah battery life with 1080p screen so they'll last 2 days for most people. My concern is that essential and Mate 9 have not confirmed a Oreo updates. I am more leaning towards Essential VS Motion now. Design goes to essential for sure!
    11-08-17 12:16 PM
  4. tickerguy's Avatar
    The Essential is a comparably-priced ($450 now at BestBuy) device with a MUCH faster processor. It is going to run roughly half as long on a charge, however -- it both has more power sucking going on and a smaller battery to provide said power, so.....

    There are also issues (known due to the sensor) with the camera in low light; that was one of the places they cut a corner. And you WILL need a case, or you're begging for trouble if it gets dropped. Then again I don't see this as a "difference" since I case EVERY phone I buy, and that's probably why I've never broken a screen.

    So basically the question for that device comes down to whether you want to chase processor spec at the expense of the camera and battery life, and have an all-US-carrier compatible device (it has the Verizon bands in it as well as the AT&T/T-Mobile ones.) I have no idea on software stability issues related to Essential but we know there are few to none in the BlackBerry Android offerings, but I will make the assumption that a base AOSP build will be no better or worse than BlackBerry's load in that regard (but not have the security enhancements.)

    If battery life, formal water resistance and the larger-pixel camera is more important than I'd say "Motion." If maximum spec CPU and Verizon compatibility win then I'd say "Essential." Both will set you back approximately the same money SIM-free although right now you since TCL hasn't released the Motion in the US you don't get to choose for today (it's a "nearly now, but not now" thing.)

    I would argue Mate is not in the same category for a whole host of reasons, size being one of them.
    11-08-17 12:28 PM
  5. Invictus0's Avatar
    Do you need a headphone jack?

    Personal preference. All good phones.

    Essential is hard to beat if you want an affordable spec chaser. You'd need a case though.

    Motion is more tailored to someone who wants a sturdy, secure device with long battery life. Patches will be much more reliable too.

    The Mate 9 is getting into Phablet territory. And no, the battery won't last as long - it's trying to drive a thirstier SoC with the same one as the Motion.
    I don't know how Huawei is but for patches the Essential phone would be the better buy, Essential has announced three years of support while the Motion's press release currently has it listed at a "minimum" of two.

    https://www.neowin.net/news/essentia...curity-patches
    11-08-17 02:08 PM
  6. krazyatom's Avatar
    Do you need a headphone jack?



    I don't know how Huawei is but for patches the Essential phone would be the better buy, Essential has announced three years of support while the Motion's press release currently has it listed at a "minimum" of two.

    https://www.neowin.net/news/essentia...curity-patches
    Wow. Essential phone looks promising with 2 OS upgrade with 3 years security patches. BlackBerry motion is good but it seems like essential offering is better.
    joker333 likes this.
    11-08-17 02:26 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I don't know how Huawei is but for patches the Essential phone would be the better buy, Essential has announced three years of support while the Motion's press release currently has it listed at a "minimum" of two.
    Wow. Essential phone looks promising with 2 OS upgrade with 3 years security patches. BlackBerry motion is good but it seems like essential offering is better.
    Talk is cheap. We'll see how they do with patches. Meanwhile, BlackBerry has hit 49 of 51 monthly patches for DTEKs, Priv, and KEYᵒⁿᵉ (DTEK60 missed April and July of 2017).
    11-08-17 02:26 PM
  8. Ment's Avatar
    Unless Andy Rubin lines up another investor, Essential isn't going to have the money to devote to after sale costs: warranty, customer service, Os updates. You don't slash the price from $700 to $450 within 90 days on phones that are selling. He's probably got one more phone to unveil to prove the marketplace before the company goes fire-sale so don't count on more than a year of updates.

    Its a very good phone for the price but just be aware down the road.
    krazyatom likes this.
    11-08-17 02:32 PM
  9. krazyatom's Avatar
    Talk is cheap. We'll see how they do with patches. Meanwhile, BlackBerry has hit 49 of 51 monthly patches for DTEKs, Priv, and KEYᵒⁿᵉ (DTEK60 missed April and July of 2017).
    Yes, we don't really know if they'll keep the promise. TCL is major company compared to essential. I can't believe that pixel 2 is offering 3 OS updates with 3 years security patches. Well I guess this is the trend now.
    11-08-17 02:34 PM
  10. tickerguy's Avatar
    Essential is a tiny little company compared to TCL. If you think TCL's execution risk is too high then you're utterly insane to buy the Essential device.

    From my point of view I'm not particularly concerned with execution risk for either device; both are likely to get a sufficient number of updates (security, etc) so the unit remains reasonably usable and secure through the expected period of time during which it will matter. This doesn't mean everything will get patched or anything like that, but that's not the point -- the point is that the device is usable today, will be usable tomorrow, and critical security problems that HAVE to be fixed tend to be relatively few in number (those that are large in scope, like KRACK.)

    If you think you're going to remain "ahead" of the Mediaserver plague on Android irrespective of patches, for example, you're wrong. Therefore despite the incessant patches to it, there are always more -- aren't there? This in turn means someone probably has them as "zero days" and is actively using them, thus you're never going to remain ahead of it.

    Deal with that if you are on the Android platform because it's reality.
    11-08-17 03:01 PM
  11. Invictus0's Avatar
    Talk is cheap. We'll see how they do with patches. Meanwhile, BlackBerry has hit 49 of 51 monthly patches for DTEKs, Priv, and KEYᵒⁿᵉ (DTEK60 missed April and July of 2017).
    Perhaps, so far Essential has been doing a good job with their updates. In addition to BlackBerry I think they were the only other Android OEM to push a patch for KRACK in October.
    11-08-17 03:11 PM
  12. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    I rather wait for OnePlus 5T, modern design, better specs, REAL dual sim
    11-08-17 03:19 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    I rather wait for OnePlus 5T, modern design, better specs, REAL dual sim
    Another great device for the spec chaser crowd.
    11-08-17 03:20 PM
  14. krazyatom's Avatar
    I rather wait for OnePlus 5T, modern design, better specs, REAL dual sim
    I had one plus 5 so 5T device is definitely a contender but I doubt 5T will receive 2 OS updates. Also, 5T will be starting $500.
    11-08-17 03:23 PM
  15. Dragnet Sound's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    I am considering a BlackBerry Motion but I have hard time deciding between these 3 smartphone. Essential and Mate 9 are currently sale on best buy. I know that they're far superior in spec than BlackBerry motion but I like BlackBerry hardened OS with security. Mate 9 battery is probably as good as motion but BlackBerry is offering high end security with free Keep update + monthly security. Any thoughts?
    What are you using now that doesn't work for you ? And how long have you had it. Put that into consideration. I would get the best that suites you .
    I like the Motion from durability test and Features that CBK showed on his videos. Would like to see it live though. The others you have mentioned probably need extended warranty and case .

    My Motion Set in Stone ...BlackBerry .....
    11-08-17 09:57 PM
  16. A Noise Annoys's Avatar
    Rumours are that Essential has only sold 5-7,500 units in the US mostly due to a) the high price point for an unknown brand launching into a very competitive marketplace, and; b) the device essentially being unfinished at launch. I'd be more inclined to sit back on this one and wait to see if it successfully establishes itself in the market before spending any kind of money on it.
    11-09-17 07:51 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Essential is a tiny little company compared to TCL. If you think TCL's execution risk is too high then you're utterly insane to buy the Essential device.

    From my point of view I'm not particularly concerned with execution risk for either device; both are likely to get a sufficient number of updates (security, etc) so the unit remains reasonably usable and secure through the expected period of time during which it will matter. This doesn't mean everything will get patched or anything like that, but that's not the point -- the point is that the device is usable today, will be usable tomorrow, and critical security problems that HAVE to be fixed tend to be relatively few in number (those that are large in scope, like KRACK.)

    If you think you're going to remain "ahead" of the Mediaserver plague on Android irrespective of patches, for example, you're wrong. Therefore despite the incessant patches to it, there are always more -- aren't there? This in turn means someone probably has them as "zero days" and is actively using them, thus you're never going to remain ahead of it.

    Deal with that if you are on the Android platform because it's reality.
    While I believe Essential is small, BBMo isn't much better. Parent company is TCT which is/was majority owned by TCL... Unfortunately, TCT just went through a major financial restructuring in 2017 and looks to be in mediocre health now.
    cribble2k likes this.
    11-09-17 08:25 AM
  18. kvndoom's Avatar
    Talk is cheap. We'll see how they do with patches. Meanwhile, BlackBerry has hit 49 of 51 monthly patches for DTEKs, Priv, and KEYᵒⁿᵉ (DTEK60 missed April and July of 2017).
    Essential might not exist in 3 years. Blackberry Mobile might not exist in 3 years. But based on the track record of other "high end boutique" Android vendors so far, I'm putting my money on BBMo being around longer than Essential.

    The Essential was $700 at launch. 3 months later it's $250 cheaper. That is NEVER a good sign. Priv says hello.
    11-09-17 10:44 AM
  19. iUser's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    I am considering a BlackBerry Motion but I have hard time deciding between these 3 smartphone. Essential and Mate 9 are currently sale on best buy. I know that they're far superior in spec than BlackBerry motion but I like BlackBerry hardened OS with security. Mate 9 battery is probably as good as motion but BlackBerry is offering high end security with free Keep update + monthly security. Any thoughts?
    Go with Essential.

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    krazyatom likes this.
    11-09-17 11:40 AM
  20. iUser's Avatar
    Mate 9 and Motion both offers 4000mah battery life with 1080p screen so they'll last 2 days for most people. My concern is that essential and Mate 9 have not confirmed a Oreo updates. I am more leaning towards Essential VS Motion now. Design goes to essential for sure!
    Essential is from Andy Rubin and it will definitely get Oreo.

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    11-09-17 11:42 AM
  21. iUser's Avatar
    Essential might not exist in 3 years. Blackberry Mobile might not exist in 3 years. But based on the track record of other "high end boutique" Android vendors so far, I'm putting my money on BBMo being around longer than Essential.

    The Essential was $700 at launch. 3 months later it's $250 cheaper. That is NEVER a good sign. Priv says hello.
    I do agree. Essential was simply overpriced. If Andy Rubin wants Essential to survive the phone market, he should price it like OnePlus did. Then slowly pricing the devices up when the brand has got consumers' trust.

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    11-09-17 11:46 AM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I do agree. Essential was simply overpriced. If Andy Rubin wants Essential to survive the phone market, he should price it like OnePlus did. Then slowly pricing the devices up when the brand has got consumers' trust.

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    Device wasn't overpriced for the specs, just introduced without enough monetary backing to buy marketshare. Selling cheap wouldn't help because it would ruin the brand. They'd never be able to upscale. Look at trouble Hyundai goes through with Kia and Equus. That's been a 30 year debacle with enormous resources.
    11-09-17 11:57 AM
  23. iUser's Avatar
    Another great device for the spec chaser crowd.
    Well, spec chaser are actually performance chaser. And if they are using the better performance in production (whatever kind of works they are doing) , it is translated into better productivity (our basic argument for BlackBerry devices)

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    11-09-17 12:11 PM
  24. tickerguy's Avatar
    The problem with the so-called "spec chaser" users is that nobody makes a device that is a "spec chaser" with a big battery in it.

    That's a huge problem because if you actually load the device in the way it can be you're going to be cycling the battery twice a day. With lithium chemistry typically starting to show serious problems at ~500 cycles we're now back to what many DTEK60 users ran into where after a year or so your battery life is crap.

    The only mitigation for that is to make the battery removable so that the user can swap it quickly and cheaply WHEN that happens. But Essential didn't do that, just as hasn't Samsung or anyone else (other than LG with the V20, which DID.)

    Essential has a further and probably lethal problem in that they're materially thinner in resource than TCL/BlackBerry Mobile is. This can turn into a huge problem because if you can't source a replacement battery then it matters not what someone built, you're hosed and have a brick.
    11-09-17 12:19 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Well, spec chaser are actually performance chaser. And if they are using the better performance in production (whatever kind of works they are doing) , it is translated into better productivity (our basic argument for BlackBerry devices)

    Posted from my lovely  Z30
    There are certainly some specialised applications that can maximize the capabilities of a high-end SoC, but like a PC, there is a lot more that goes into an efficient work environment than the CPU clock speed.

    As an example, the 660 can go toe-to-toe with the 835 on almost every task except for the GPU - but sips less battery. The 625/626 is a bit slower, but for MOST things (and certainly the things I care about) the difference is imperceptible.

    Everything is a trade-off. You never want more capacity than you will use most of the time, as that works against you.

    I, personally, would choose a Motion over the Essential because it hits more marks for me.
    11-09-17 12:29 PM
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