[Bla1ze]

BBD100-3 is listed as a Sprint device and it supports both CDMA/GSM so it'll probably launch in the US at some point,

https://www.blackberrymobile.com/ca/...pecifications/

I get what you're saying though, I wouldn't import a Motion either, especially after the Keyone's issues.

You really shouldn't take that portion of the site to heart. I mean, I hope it's right. But it's literally a copy and paste. It STILL says NEON, which was the codename for the DTEK50. lol. Where the KEYone and Motion are pretty near the same with respect to internal specs, there was little need to make adjustments there.

NFC
NFC technology is used to create a connection to share information between your BlackBerry smartphone and other NFC-enabled devices or NFC tags. Features on NEON that use NFC technology include Android Beam, Tap and Pay, and Tap and Go.

[Invictus0]

You really shouldn't take that portion of the site to heart. I mean, I hope it's right. But it's literally a copy and paste. It STILL says NEON, which was the codename for the DTEK50. lol. Where the KEYone and Motion are pretty near the same with respect to internal specs, there was little need to make adjustments there.

Wow, good catch! Even weirder, the specs page is different on the other regional Motion sites.

BlackBerry Motion Spécification

That being said, it does kind of align with what thurask found a few weeks ago.

https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...iants-1127690/

[donnation]

My point is that a non-US distributed (and warrantied) device is effectively sold without any warranty whatsoever. If you get it and it's defective, have fun trying to get that sorted out. Likewise if it has a problem during the first year. Support has value.

BTW my DTEK60 required a battery replacement in the first year. It was done at zero cost and in two business days (time in their shop); less than a week end-to-end. Had that been one of those Chineesium or Non-US market devices it would have been rendered completely worthless because it would be impossible to get it repaired under the alleged "warranty."

Instead of a phone that is worth $0 I have one that is worth very near its original purchase price since the warranty was honored and there's nothing else wrong with it, nor any signs of wear anywhere on it. I can probably sell it for 75-80% of what I paid for it if the existing listings for the DTEK60 are any guide to what I can expect to receive, should I decide to sell it (especially with a now-new battery in it!)



In other words you know of none.

Thank you for admitting it. I've done the looking, and I've come to the conclusion that there in fact are none.



I said +/- 500mah. Yes, I recognize that a "hard spec" of 4,000 is unreasonable. But expecting 3,500 or better is not. That's sufficient to get comfortably into the second day with a 6xx series processor (it won't be for heavy users on an 8xx series chip, however; the DTEK60 has a 3,000mah battery and an 8xx series CPU, and you CAN kill it in a single day.) Therefore the lower bar is reasonably placed at 3,500mah -- which means the KeyONE qualifies (and, having tested that phone, it DOES qualify on duration.)

The other devices out in the market right now in the same general price band as the Motion either have much smaller batteries or are de-contented in ways that matter to ordinary users. Motorola is one of the most-egregious in this regard; they removed NFC and a gig of RAM from their latest "midrange" US-release devices. You can get EU versions from several manufacturers without the intentional crippling but now you're again in the no-warranty and likely no-WiFi-calling or VoLTE capability realm again. Most people want both, especially if they're on T-Mobile which allows it on handsets they don't sell (AT&T usually does not.)

You said there was no market for the Motion and that there were other suitable devices with reasonably-comparable capabilities and specs. I gave you that most people see zero value in the BlackBerry enhanced security features (DTEK and system hardening) and challenged you to list a few of the other choices I could make in the $450-and-under price band that have comparable processors, comparable battery sizes (within reason), a comparable (or close) camera sensor, water resistance and a full set of sensors (e.g. NFC, etc) along with a US warranty and band mix.

You didn't name one, and I suspect that's because you don't know of any.

That's my entire point -- there's a clear place for the Motion in carrier and general cellphone seller line-ups, and it's not a "niche" product.

The KeyONE is a niche product -- it's for those who want a keyboard and will sacrifice the screen aspect ratio to have it. That's a small minority of Android users. The Motion is a midrange handset that, if I am interested in that general level of capability with that general amount of money to spend I have trouble finding competitive offerings from other sellers that I would buy instead.

The Motion is a niche product whether you want to admit it or not. It’s niche in that only BlackBerry enthusiasts will buy it. BlackBerry has a hard enough time selling keyboard phones to people who actually want a keyboard. They have never, and won’t ever sell to the touchscreen market no matter how many different ways you think you are justifying their place in that space.

[A Noise Annoys]

Let's just say that every US poster to CrackBerry, BlackBerry Central (if it's still going, that is) or any other BB forum out there who said they would buy a Motion actually went out and bought one if it was available there, how many sales would that really add up to? Hundreds? Low thousands? Certainly not 10's of thousands or anywhere close to 100's of thousands. Would sale numbers really justify the expense and effort it would take for BB Mobile to market the device there? I dunno, but I would be very surprised if they would.

If that's the case, I see no issue with BB Mobile encouraging sales to the US from their retail network in Canada, when they eventually release it outside of the carriers.

[tickerguy]

The Motion is a niche product whether you want to admit it or not. It’s niche in that only BlackBerry enthusiasts will buy it. BlackBerry has a hard enough time selling keyboard phones to people who actually want a keyboard. They have never, and won’t ever sell to the touchscreen market no matter how many different ways you think you are justifying their place in that space.

I disagree completely.

Your basic argument is that BlackBerry's name is essentially debris in the US space; not that people think they went under (many do) but that they actually have a believe they make trash.

That's nonsense.

When you boil it all down the issue simply is whether BlackBerry's current smartphone offerings fill a slot that is unfilled in the various "tiers", or if not, do they compete well against other offerings in the same price band.

When I look at T-Mobile's current phone offerings, for example, in the $450 price band (+/- $50) in the Android space (The Apple iPhone 6s, for example, is in this price band), excluding discontinued devices that are being pushed out the door and refurbs I see the Kyocera DualForce (a rugged handset) and that's about it.

The HTC U11Life is $300 (materially cheaper) but as mentioned has a tiny battery and an inferior camera, and is missing a gig of memory. The current Galaxy models are all $750 or more ($300+ premium.)

The J3, J7 and Revvl are both very low-end handsets ($150-225) and nowhere near comparable in capability.

The only two that slot in the same bracket are "last model backs" or simply not selling; the S7, Moto Z-Force 2nd Gen and LG G6m along with the Kyrocera DuraForce. The DuraForce is an interesting device but has a 617 in it and Android 6; it's primary attribute is that it's intrinsically "armored" (Ip68, rubber-coated, etc.)

The Z-Force has a tiny battery (2700mah) and started with a $750 tag (flagship level); at $500 it doesn't look so bad, but that battery will kill you. The G6 is an interesting device that hits all the points and has Qi charging; that would be a decent comparison. It has a smaller battery but faster processor; it obviously didn't sell as it's $150 off right now. The S7 is just the last model back; a 3,000mah battery and 820 make it a DTEK60 in terms of power consumption and battery life (maybe all day, but not more than one day.)

I don't see the comparable model; certainly nothing that slots in the same range. There are uniques on the Motion -- the camera and the battery being two big ones -- you can get an equivalent camera on the S7 (and probably as good on the G6) but you can't get the battery life on anything on offer right now, and all the "comparables" are basically DTEK60s when it comes to power consumption.

I own a DTEK60 and it's a nice phone. But the 2-day battery in the Motion takes the "run out of power" consideration completely off the table over an ordinary day, and you sacrifice nothing over the other offerings in the comparable price band to get it.

That makes it unique.

[donnation]

I disagree completely.

Your basic argument is that BlackBerry's name is essentially debris in the US space; not that people think they went under (many do) but that they actually have a believe they make trash.

That's nonsense.

When you boil it all down the issue simply is whether BlackBerry's current smartphone offerings fill a slot that is unfilled in the various "tiers", or if not, do they compete well against other offerings in the same price band.

When I look at T-Mobile's current phone offerings, for example, in the $450 price band (+/- $50) in the Android space (The Apple iPhone 6s, for example, is in this price band), excluding discontinued devices that are being pushed out the door and refurbs I see the Kyocera DualForce (a rugged handset) and that's about it.

The HTC U11Life is $300 (materially cheaper) but as mentioned has a tiny battery and an inferior camera, and is missing a gig of memory. The current Galaxy models are all $750 or more ($300+ premium.)

The J3, J7 and Revvl are both very low-end handsets ($150-225) and nowhere near comparable in capability.

The only two that slot in the same bracket are "last model backs" or simply not selling; the S7, Moto Z-Force 2nd Gen and LG G6m along with the Kyrocera DuraForce. The DuraForce is an interesting device but has a 617 in it and Android 6; it's primary attribute is that it's intrinsically "armored" (Ip68, rubber-coated, etc.)

The Z-Force has a tiny battery (2700mah) and started with a $750 tag (flagship level); at $500 it doesn't look so bad, but that battery will kill you. The G6 is an interesting device that hits all the points and has Qi charging; that would be a decent comparison. It has a smaller battery but faster processor; it obviously didn't sell as it's $150 off right now. The S7 is just the last model back; a 3,000mah battery and 820 make it a DTEK60 in terms of power consumption and battery life (maybe all day, but not more than one day.)

I don't see the comparable model; certainly nothing that slots in the same range. There are uniques on the Motion -- the camera and the battery being two big ones -- you can get an equivalent camera on the S7 (and probably as good on the G6) but you can't get the battery life on anything on offer right now, and all the "comparables" are basically DTEK60s when it comes to power consumption.

I own a DTEK60 and it's a nice phone. But the 2-day battery in the Motion takes the "run out of power" consideration completely off the table over an ordinary day, and you sacrifice nothing over the other offerings in the comparable price band to get it.

That makes it unique.

None of that matters. Blackberrys name in the US is trash and people won’t buy it.

[anon(3732391)]

None of that matters. Blackberrys name in the US is trash and people won’t buy it.

Not that we don't believe you but you'll always find someone who will challenge a statement like that.
You could save yourself the grief by attaching all the documented proof to back it up with.

(This was suggested by a friend. I'm just passing it on for him.)
WHAT???? YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?????

[bb10adopter111]

None of that matters. Blackberrys name in the US is trash and people won’t buy it.

It's not that hard to rehabilitate a brand. It's far easier to turn around a tarnished brand than to launch a new one. BlackBerry has more brand recognition than many better-selling Android manufacturers.

Everyone loves a turnaround story. If BlackBerry Mobile continues to get good press for another year, the door will be wide open for them to sell as many phones as anyone not named Apple, Google, or Samsung.

There's a lot of work to be done before that happens, and there's no guarantee of success, but it's more likely that BlackBerry will be in carrier stores in the US in 2019 than HTC, OnePlus, ZTE, or other brands that most consumers have never heard of.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[donnation]

It's not that hard to rehabilitate a brand. It's far easier to turn around a tarnished brand than to launch a new one. BlackBerry has more brand recognition than many better-selling Android manufacturers.

Everyone loves a turnaround story. If BlackBerry Mobile continues to get good press for another year, the door will be wide open for them to sell as many phones as anyone not named Apple, Google, or Samsung.

There's a lot of work to be done before that happens, and there's no guarantee of success, but it's more likely that BlackBerry will be in carrier stores in the US in 2019 than HTC, OnePlus, ZTE, or other brands that most consumers have never heard of.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Lol a turnaround story has been talked about since Heinz was brought in and BB10. It isn’t BlackBerry anymore, it’s TCL using the BlackBerry name. There is no rehabilitation to be had, Blackberry doesn’t make devices anymore.

Can they sell a few devices here and there, sure. Will they ever be a presence in the Android space, nope.

[ray689]

Lol a turnaround story has been talked about since Heinz was brought in and BB10. It isn’t BlackBerry anymore, it’s TCL using the BlackBerry name. There is no rehabilitation to be had, Blackberry doesn’t make devices anymore.

Can they sell a few devices here and there, sure. Will they ever be a presence in the Android space, nope.

Enough of a presence for you to keep talking about them though.

[donnation]

Enough of a presence for you to keep talking about them though.

Probably because this is a BlackBerry forum. If it was a Samsung forum or Apple forum that comment might make sense.

[ray689]

Probably because this is a BlackBerry forum. If it was a Samsung forum or Apple forum that comment might make sense.

Of course. Except you just stated BlackBerry is irrelevant and won't have any sort of presence. You always follow and discuss irrelevant things?

[donnation]

Of course. Except you just stated BlackBerry is irrelevant and won't have any sort of presence. You always follow and discuss irrelevant things?

I said outside of BlackBerry enthusiasts. Good comments though Ray.

[ray689]

I said outside of BlackBerry enthusiasts. Good comments though Ray.

Thanks figured you would appreciate it.

[anon(3732391)]

I can name that Motion in 7 Launches!!

[bb10adopter111]

Lol a turnaround story has been talked about since Heinz was brought in and BB10. It isn’t BlackBerry anymore, it’s TCL using the BlackBerry name. There is no rehabilitation to be had, Blackberry doesn’t make devices anymore.

Can they sell a few devices here and there, sure. Will they ever be a presence in the Android space, nope.

The BlackBerry turnaround has already happened. They are now profitable.

The BlackBerry brand that we're talking about is BlackBerry Mobile's challenge. No one thinks they will ever be dominant again in hardware, nor is that BlackBerry Mobile's goal. They are just trying to earn a decent economic return selling a few million devices a year within the next couple of years. If they can get to 1% of the Android market, with decent margins, they will be satisfied. That's a reasonable goal by 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[app_Developer]

The BlackBerry turnaround has already happened. They are now profitable.

The BlackBerry brand that we're talking about is BlackBerry Mobile's challenge. No one thinks they will ever be dominant again in hardware, nor is that BlackBerry Mobile's goal. They are just trying to earn a decent economic return selling a few million devices a year within the next couple of years. If they can get to 1% of the Android market, with decent margins, they will be satisfied. That's a reasonable goal by 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

What brands can we point at that were rehabbed without major investment? I can’t think of any myself.

And that’s the problem. BB Mobile doesn’t own the BB brand, they are renting it. If they’re going to make a major investment to rehab a brand, why not do it with the Palm brand that they actually own?

I don’t rent an apartment to someone and then expect them to redo my kitchen.

[jackcarr]

I bought it in Canada. It's on its way to Upstate New York.

[Invictus0]

What brands can we point at that were rehabbed without major investment? I can’t think of any myself.

Motorola is a pretty famous example thanks to the Moto G, they practically own the midrange Android market now in many territories. I think the last major hit Motorola had before this was the Razr.

https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/glo...Moto-G-success

If BBMobile wants to see similar success I think they'll have to make a play for the consumer market, I can't see this happening on enterprise alone. BlackBerry had appeal in many markets with consumers (largely thanks to BIS), I'm sure this could be tapped into again now that they use Android.

[donnation]

The BlackBerry turnaround has already happened. They are now profitable.

The BlackBerry brand that we're talking about is BlackBerry Mobile's challenge. No one thinks they will ever be dominant again in hardware, nor is that BlackBerry Mobile's goal. They are just trying to earn a decent economic return selling a few million devices a year within the next couple of years. If they can get to 1% of the Android market, with decent margins, they will be satisfied. That's a reasonable goal by 2019.

Posted with my trusty Z10

I’m confused because the post i was quoting you were the one who was stating that a turn around could happen. Regardless, you’re talking about two completely different animals. BlackBerry the company has made a small turn around and is making a profit. That turn around has ZERO to do with handsets and is all software non phone related.

There is no turnaround that can occur because BlackBerry doesn’t make phones or have anything to do with them outside of some software tweaks for Android. The turnaround days are over.

[tickerguy]

Meh.

Make a product that has an attribute unique among competitors and which people find useful.

They can only get that attribute (one or more) by buying from you.

That's a time-honored way to win. BB Mobile has that in two segments now -- a PBK on a phone, and "can't kill it in a day" battery life.

Nobody else has either.

If you're correct that people want those attributes in the product you win, and if you're right that people want those attribute(s) bigly, and have but compromised in the past due to the inability to find that attribute among competitive offerings and are unhappy that they had to do so, you win in a MAJOR fashion.

[johnb_xp]

Meh, I'd prefer KEYtwo. No point of a BlackBerry without a pkb imo.

[Sigewif]

What is a person to do when there is no indication that the Motion is coming to the US in the near future? It is a dilemma! Consider this: someone I know quite well who is a dedicated iPhone user. A while ago his iPhone got damaged and he got a new one, (or perhaps, refurbished). This was within the last several months. In the mean time I got my KEYone. Of course my enthusiasm for it and telling him about battery life and other things about it spilled over in conversation. Lately my friend's iPhone (the new one) has started to have issues. I was sure he was joking when he said, "I guess I need a BlackBerry." I said, isn't your phone relatively new?" He answered that it had had some less than gentle usage. "OK, you DO need a BlackBerry, then." I said, thinking of the sturdy Motion, which is touch screen, like what he is used to, and that is so much less fragile than iPhones. "But," I said, "The one you need is not available in the US."
The lack of availability in the US with no word on whether it will become available is odd to me. It doesn't take much to, at least sell it unlocked online via the stores and outlets that are already being used for other BlackBerry phones (Amazon, Best Buy, and perhaps one or two others).
This is what I want to say to BBMobile. "People like my friend are the customers you want and need if you want to build your customer base. They will move on quickly if you don't make the phones available within a short time, while there is excitement in various parts of the world at its release."

[tickerguy]

This is what I want to say to BBMobile. "People like my friend are the customers you want and need if you want to build your customer base. They will move on quickly if you don't make the phones available within a short time, while there is excitement in various parts of the world at its release."

Exactly.

I just had this basic same experience in a local watering hole last night; a friend with a "higher end" Android device that's losing it's mind (battery is dead, and it's non-replaceable.) She'd buy a Motion RIGHT NOW as every single time I've seen her in the last month or so she's looking for an outlet and she likes the look of my DTEK60.

But.... I can't tell her "go get one of these" because there's nowhere to get it FROM. In relatively short order the opportunity will be gone to sell her as I'm quite sure her tolerance for "find me power, now!" will run out and she'll buy SOMETHING.

[A Noise Annoys]

I'll say it again, there is absolutely no logical business reason for TCL to market the Motion in the US. Even if they sold one to everyone who has claimed to want one on all the BB and Android forums out there, how many do you really think that would be?