- Pretty much. All that needs to be done is have the IMEI in the system and have the device registered but if the system won't recognize the device, it won't work. It could be overridden but alas, that's the part that's intentional of their own making.
They started removing the override options from the systems, so your basic everyday rep isn't going to be able to do it and tech support just simply won't because you know, they tend to like getting paid for work and just do what the higher ups tell them to.01-30-18 05:52 AMLike 0 - T-Mobile, while being less discriminatory, still does it. There's no technical reason for VoLTE and WFC not to work but they are checking user agent strings and similar parameters and simply refusing to let them through if they don't "like" them -- in this case, it's "that's an international device, go away!"01-30-18 10:40 AMLike 0
- T-Mobile, while being less discriminatory, still does it. There's no technical reason for VoLTE and WFC not to work but they are checking user agent strings and similar parameters and simply refusing to let them through if they don't "like" them -- in this case, it's "that's an international device, go away!"01-30-18 11:20 AMLike 0
- The "modern" version of WFC is simply an IPSEC tunnel; I've traced it. Keying is done through the parameters in the SIM. There is no technical reason for it not to work in any given case with a modern device, since it's not carrier-software specific any more.
The original setup T-Mobile had for wifi calling (many years ago) was not a standard and thus it required software they only put on their devices. That's long gone now with the use of IPSEC (which, amusingly, is arguably more-secure than the encryption protocols used over-the-air!)
Of course it's easier (since the hardware is available for $50 anywhere) to intercept a WiFi signal than an LTE one....01-30-18 11:54 AMLike 0 - And I remember when T-Mo actually had hardware on their phones. Still, the question is, why would T-Mo restrict non NA phones from WFC? I gather the tweaked logic here is that it will force the customer to... do what? Unlike AT&T, who may be restricting all non-branded phones, how would restricting non-NA phones forces customers to by branded. Not following the logic.01-30-18 02:14 PMLike 0
- And I remember when T-Mo actually had hardware on their phones. Still, the question is, why would T-Mo restrict non NA phones from WFC? I gather the tweaked logic here is that it will force the customer to... do what? Unlike AT&T, who may be restricting all non-branded phones, how would restricting non-NA phones forces customers to by branded. Not following the logic.01-30-18 07:55 PMLike 0
- They don't want people to come here with non-NA phones, get a SIM, do a one-month prepaid and leave. They like the roaming chargebacks to the carriers in Europe (especially) as their "preferred" alternative and this is one way to "discourage" people doing that. Same with the refusal to connect IMS on non-NA-market devices.01-30-18 08:23 PMLike 0
-
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy; it's simply that there are no standards for mobile carriers in the US when it comes to not attempting to force uneconomic decisions on customers (like buying phones from a carrier which limits your choices and, for travelers, discouraging buying short-term service instead of getting screwed by roaming charges.)
T-Mobile is less-ridiculous in this regard than the other two big carriers but that doesn't make them "clean" -- just less-crappy.01-30-18 08:27 PMLike 0 - The -1 version has Band 12.
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy; it's simply that there are no standards for mobile carriers in the US when it comes to not attempting to force uneconomic decisions on customers (like buying phones from a carrier which limits your choices and, for travelers, discouraging buying short-term service instead of getting screwed by roaming charges.)
T-Mobile is less-ridiculous in this regard than the other two big carriers but that doesn't make them "clean" -- just less-crappy.
T-Mo says:
"Specifically, we require phones using Band 12 on T-Mobile to support E911 and VoLTE in order to be certified on our network,""
https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...ort-volte-e91101-30-18 08:55 PMLike 0 - Well, data-only Band12 hasn't been a "thing" now for several years. It was a factor a good long while back and the reason is that there are areas where T-Mobile has *NO* UMTS or GSM fallback service but has Band12 deployed, and without VoLTE you can't make a call even though your phone would lock onto their service!
However, the Motion (including the -1 version) definitely is both VoLTE and E911 capable. And neither of these has anything to do with WFC, which is simply an IPSEC tunnel of the switch's protocol over the Internet.
All VoLTE gets you in THAT instance is the ability to walk out of WiFi range and not have an in-process call drop. T-Mobile's switching infrastructure can seamlessly switch between VoLTE and WFC, but cannot do so directly to either UMTS or GSM from WFC (although it can and does from VoLTE!) and will drop a WFC call if you go out of range of WiFi and there is no VoLTE available. Interestingly enough T-Mobile's switch infrastructure also will downgrade all the way to GSM during a call that starts on VoLTE (or goes "through" it from WFC) but will not upgrade to UMTS or VoLTE if you come into range of it while a GSM or UMTS call is in process. This is likely related to how their switch allocates bandwidth as GSM and UMTS are effectively time-slice protocols while VoLTE and WFC are packet-switched.01-30-18 09:41 PMLike 0 -
1. IPSEC support in the dialer/call management code. ALL current modern Android devices have it (and have since that was standardized; "way back when", before it was a common protocol, T-Mobile had their own protocol which required actual custom hardware. Those days are long gone.)
2. The carrier must permit the connection request to proceed. This is where the problem lies; various carriers whitelist on IMEI prefix, on UA (user agent) strings and similar.
There is no *technical* reason to do #2 because initial keying (necessary to authenticate) is derived from the SIM's internal encryption keys. You either have a carrier's SIM in the device which has the proper endpoint and a valid (active account) key in it or you don't. Likewise, the other requirements (primarily that ports 500 and 4500 on UDP can be routed end-to-end, which IPSEC requires to work) are not carrier-specific.
Carriers like to claim a need for "compatibility testing" but that's nonsense; it either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't the person impacted is you and you can (and would) shut it off. If the carrier is incompetent enough that bad (or worse, intentionally compromised) software in your device can screw up their network routing then they ought to be out of business; security-through-obscurity is neither. IPSEC is considered "military grade" security assuming that keying is done properly and control of key acceptance is a function of the carrier's subscription database and the SIM's keying engine which they issued in the first place.01-31-18 08:53 AMLike 0 - Hotspot "issues" are similar; there is utterly no reason for Android (or any other device) to "ask" for such from a carrier, or for it to be able to be barred on the handset as a matter of technology. Any device on the Internet irrespective of its technology can perform NAT and support devices behind it without any knowledge or "consent" of the next hop attached to it. The carriers not only have strong-armed the phone providers, including Apple and Google, including sending "requests" (when none is required) they also all perform 'deep packet inspection' today to catch people who don't use their "approved" method (since using it is NOT a technical requirement for tethering to work) such as inspecting the browser identity string sent to places targeting port 80 (http) and take various enforcement actions if they don't like the result. It's utterly ridiculous that various regulatory agencies allow this crap since a byte is a byte and if you have a 10Gb quota for data in a month (for example) whether you consume it on your handset as the "final endpoint" or on your tablet is immaterial to the network and further, you paid for it in any event.01-31-18 09:01 AMLike 0
- It's clear that AT&T is blocking some (all?) non-branded phones from WFC and Hotspots. The logic being -- you want full service buy our phones. OK . But in T-mo's case I don't see the logic. Non-NA phones are blocked all?), but so are some NA phones -- Dtek50, for example. Your reasoning that there's no real reason that WFC can't work on almost any phone is fine, technically. But... why block the Dtek50 and not the Dtek60? Especially since reports were that the Dtek50 was fully provisioned to work on T-Mo WFC. Unlike the AT&T M.O., I can see no logical reason for T-Mo's selective blocking. That's all. Thanks again for all the great info, BTW.01-31-18 09:39 AMLike 0
- Out of frustration, I dumped ATT yesterday due to lack of hotspot enabling on my Motion. Today, I turned my Motion on to do a few things without the SIM while on WiFi. On a whim, I checked the hotspot under settings and it toggled over and enabled and I was able to connect my laptop to it (I was never able to get the hotspot to toggle on when I had the SIM in). It did not have internet though, I'm assuming because no SIM in.
Has anyone been able to toggle the Motion hotspot on with SIM in and get an internet connection on ATT?
If so, I might think about going back...
[Got the LG V30 and downloaded Blackberry apps, but the Blackberry Keyboard isn't compatible with LG V30 for some reason - a shame because the Blackberry Keyboard is awesome.]
Thanks for your help!02-20-18 07:48 PMLike 0 - Out of frustration, I dumped ATT yesterday due to lack of hotspot enabling on my Motion. Today, I turned my Motion on to do a few things without the SIM while on WiFi. On a whim, I checked the hotspot under settings and it toggled over and enabled and I was able to connect my laptop to it (I was never able to get the hotspot to toggle on when I had the SIM in). It did not have internet though, I'm assuming because no SIM in.
Has anyone been able to toggle the Motion hotspot on with SIM in and get an internet connection on ATT?
If so, I might think about going back...
[Got the LG V30 and downloaded Blackberry apps, but the Blackberry Keyboard isn't compatible with LG V30 for some reason - a shame because the Blackberry Keyboard is awesome.]
Thanks for your help!02-20-18 07:52 PMLike 0 - This problem should be corrected when/if ever AT&T starts selling their branded version of the Motion. Supposedly they have to "update" their network to support the functionality at that point it will work regardless of where you purchased the device. Probably have nothing to do with actually updating anything, more like allowing.02-20-18 07:59 PMLike 0
- I started a thread a couple of weeks back, "WiFi calling on AT&T" , and the hotspot issue came up as well. AT&T doesn't support unbranded devices for WFC or hotspot. The hotspot feature will work when they get around to it but WFC is a no go. No issues with T-Mobile supporting both features on their network with the Motion but the grass isn't that green on that side of the fence either.02-20-18 08:36 PMLike 0
- I started a thread a couple of weeks back, "WiFi calling on AT&T" , and the hotspot issue came up as well. AT&T doesn't support unbranded devices for WFC or hotspot. The hotspot feature will work when they get around to it but WFC is a no go. No issues with T-Mobile supporting both features on their network with the Motion but the grass isn't that green on that side of the fence either.02-20-18 09:05 PMLike 0
- This seemed to work for me to get the hotspot to work (cumbersome and ridiculous so I'm going to reach out to AT&T to ask wtf).
1. pop SIM card out
2. restart phone
3. toggle bluetooth tethering on (mobile hotspot automatically turns on)
4. disable bluetooth tethering
5. pop SIM card back in
6. connect laptop
Give it a try and let us know if it works for you.02-28-18 11:42 AMLike 0 - This seemed to work for me to get the hotspot to work (cumbersome and ridiculous so I'm going to reach out to AT&T to ask wtf).
1. pop SIM card out
2. restart phone
3. toggle bluetooth tethering on (mobile hotspot automatically turns on)
4. disable bluetooth tethering
5. pop SIM card back in
6. connect laptop
Give it a try and let us know if it works for you.03-01-18 08:49 AMLike 0
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HotSpot on Motion won't enable
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