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10-08-17 06:51 PM
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  1. mrsimon's Avatar
    in a Spanish business newspaper today they have an article about up-market Chinese phones . To take just two. one plus 5 and the Xiaomi Mi 6 , they both have 5.5 in screens, snapdragon 835 , 64Gb and 6gb of RAM plus dual camera. But for how much:
    499 euros a piece.

    If you don't have any loyalty to "BB" , why would you buy the Motion over these two?
    The PKB gives you the USP but with a slab you'll be judged on specs and price. Not sure BB Android apps will help much.
    So, can't see the Motion selling much if it's not priced to its specs.
    And it won't be.
    Don't bother coming to Spain. Actually, TCL isn't anyway
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    10-06-17 05:35 AM
  2. Matty's Avatar
    Are there devices with better specs, for a lower price and look better? Yes. There also laptops cheaper than Apple's iPhone X for $1,149 but people will still go out and purchase it.

    To me, I'm paying for the Blackberry logo, the fast security updates, the hardened android OS and of course the Blackberry Hub. It's also simply about knowing I'm getting a device that's built to last. Something I'm able to keep for many years to come. All my previous Blackberry devices are still in working condition many years later. Blackberry isn't for everyone.
    Last edited by Matty; 10-07-17 at 05:16 AM.
    10-06-17 07:18 AM
  3. CandidBerrytales's Avatar
    Are there devices with better specs, for a lower price and look better? Yes, there also laptops cheaper than Apple's iPhone X for $1,149 but people will still go out and purchase it.

    To me, I'm paying for the Blackberry logo, the fast security updates, the hardened android OS and of course the Blackberry Hub. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ It's also simply about knowing I'm getting a device that's built to last. Something I'm able to keep for many years to come. All my previous Blackberry devices are still in working condition many years later. Blackberry isn't for everyone. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
    Matty, I agree. I dunno how many sales of the Motion this will translate into. I'm totally all in to buy it.

    I think (hope) it's more than just a customer choosing one slab over another because of pure specs. To me its:

    -Productivity/Blended with enough "play" features
    -Security (as you mentioned, reliable updates)
    -Quality build (hopefully)
    -Specifically targeted advertising like they did with the KeyOne.

    I'm not expecting huge numbers. And I have no idea what TCL's critical mass is here. However, if they can meet modest goal, and continue to build back the BlackBerry name, they might be in a decent position to do even more damage to the market with a follow-up to the KeyOne.
    10-06-17 08:00 AM
  4. Matty's Avatar
    . I'm not expecting huge numbers. And I have no idea what TCL's critical mass is here. However, if they can meet modest goal, and continue to build back the BlackBerry name, they might be in a decent position to do even more damage to the market with a follow-up to the KeyOne.
    I'm not expecting huge sales either. Just enough to keep the TCL and Blackberry Mobile partnership going so we can see more devices in the future. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ If people continue to see the Blackberry name in the news (Good news) the more chance Blackberry have of customers switching over and trying Blackberry again.

    It's small right now, but after their very good quarter (announced recently) and them switching to the NYstock exchange. Things are looking good ๐Ÿ˜ƒ let's wait and see.
    10-06-17 08:24 AM
  5. Ralf Sigfridsson's Avatar
    Are there devices with better specs, for a lower price and look better? Yes, there also laptops cheaper than Apple's iPhone X for $1,149 but people will still go out and purchase it.

    To me, I'm paying for the Blackberry logo, the fast security updates, the hardened android OS and of course the Blackberry Hub. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ It's also simply about knowing I'm getting a device that's built to last. Something I'm able to keep for many years to come. All my previous Blackberry devices are still in working condition many years later. Blackberry isn't for everyone. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
    I all in on blackberry but i actually agree with OP. The new blackberry should be competing with the same spec class not with phones that has the newest tech also it was a bit disapointing that it only has ip67 like the iphone, when samsung has ip68 water proof. Also when you mention apple they actually have great spec in their phones so its not just the brand you pay for. Ps i hate apple. So why cant BlackBerry just acknowledge that we have to make a comeback and either make a killer spec phone or compete with the same spec ones. Id rather win that fight than lose the price vs spec fight.

    Posted via CB10
    Matty and FF22 like this.
    10-06-17 08:44 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    in a Spanish business newspaper today they have an article about up-market Chinese phones . To take just two. one plus 5 and the Xiaomi Mi 6 , they both have 5.5 in screens, snapdragon 835 , 64Gb and 6gb of RAM plus dual camera. But for how much:
    499 euros a piece.

    If you don't have any loyalty to "BB" , why would you buy the Motion over these two?
    The PKB gives you the USP but with a slab you'll be judged on specs and price. Not sure BB Android apps will help much.
    So, can't see the Motion selling much if it's not priced to its specs.
    And it won't be.
    Don't bother coming to Spain. Actually, TCL isn't anyway
    Which one of those also feature kernel hardening, a locked bootloader, hardware root of trust, and Integrity Detection?

    The Motion is an enterprise device, let's not kid ourselves. There will always be spill-over to the BlackBerry enthusiasts, of course.
    10-06-17 09:12 AM
  7. mrsimon's Avatar
    Which one of those also feature kernel hardening, a locked bootloader, hardware root of trust, and Integrity Detection?

    The Motion is an enterprise device, let's not kid ourselves. There will always be spill-over to the BlackBerry enthusiasts, of course.
    The two phones above were presented as enterprise phones too in the main Spanish business daily newspaper.
    There are very high spec at a very competitive price and in that respect will be very attractive to companies.
    The only way BBm could be successful would be convincing companies that the security features are really work, and are worth the extra. Is BBm going to advertise this well and widely enough to convince potential buyers? Will it look quality enough or look different. There's an opportunity as the two I mentioned looks identical to practically every other slab, including the spy shots of the Motion.



    At a consumer level, I don't think people care about monthly security updates, hubs or Kernels (whatever that is) or believe in the brand. So if you're buying on numbers of specs per euro, you definitely won't choose the BBm Motion.

    It's up to TCL to pump in big money in a very creative and smart way. Time till tell, but based on the previous years' track record, you'd be a brave man to bet on a certain number of units sold.
    10-06-17 10:28 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    At a consumer level, I don't think people care about monthly security updates, hubs or Kernels (whatever that is) or believe in the brand. So if you're buying on numbers of specs per euro, you definitely won't choose the BBm Motion.

    It's up to TCL to pump in big money in a very creative and smart way. Time till tell, but based on the previous years' track record, you'd be a brave man to bet on a certain number of units sold.
    You're right, people don't care about hardening - that's why it's targeted to enterprise.

    I think TCL has been very cautious and realistic regarding their expectations for the brand - and seem genuinely surprised by the success (at least by their measure) of the KEYแต’โฟแต‰.
    10-06-17 10:33 AM
  9. HighFlight88's Avatar
    Which one of those also feature kernel hardening, a locked bootloader, hardware root of trust, and Integrity Detection?

    The Motion is an enterprise device, let's not kid ourselves. There will always be spill-over to the BlackBerry enthusiasts, of course.
    Exactly, conite.

    For those who understand the value of those somewhat invisible features, the BlackBerry approach wins over simple specs or features, and is worth a reasonable price premium over 'similiar' devices.

    The day that the hurricane rolls in, it justifies having built your expensive house on the hill instead of on the nice beach with nearly everyone else.
    10-06-17 10:43 AM
  10. FishhPoohh's Avatar
    Which one of those also feature kernel hardening, a locked bootloader, hardware root of trust, and Integrity Detection?

    The Motion is an enterprise device, let's not kid ourselves. There will always be spill-over to the BlackBerry enthusiasts, of course.
    Not to mention a 4000 mAh battery. Which is 500 mAh more than my old KEYone. Same specs with a bigger battery and more ram. Id pick the Motion over those battery hungry Chinese phones any day
    10-06-17 10:45 AM
  11. brookie229's Avatar
    old KEYone
    lol
    duncan86 likes this.
    10-06-17 10:46 AM
  12. FishhPoohh's Avatar
    lol
    Well it is old to me. Haha. I sold it over a month ago to pay a hospital bill. I'm just using my Moto Z Play and Passport SE now
    brookie229 likes this.
    10-06-17 10:50 AM
  13. awindsr's Avatar
    It's simple. Never had problems with my Blackberrys; I trust the brand; I like their version of Android ; no bloatware like the others; security centric; ever improved software that I use, without having to trust a third party software maker operating out of their mom's basement; and support for a Canadian company.

    Posted via CB10
    10-06-17 11:28 AM
  14. HighFlight88's Avatar
    It's simple. Never had problems with my Blackberrys; I trust the brand; I like their version of Android ; no bloatware like the others; security centric; ever improved software that I use, without having to trust a third party software maker operating out of their mom's basement; and support for a Canadian company.

    Posted via CB10
    All of the above, and a big battery.
    10-06-17 11:31 AM
  15. tale 85's Avatar
    Interesting look. Typically TCL.

    OK, here in the US, what phones will this really be competing against? Basically anything else with a Snapdragon 625/626. So we're looking at the mid $200 to low $300 range. Add in the Blackberry Enterprise factor and pricing should be about $350-$400.
    10-06-17 11:56 AM
  16. tonythecanuck's Avatar
    There are many better devices on the market than the "Motion."
    10-06-17 11:58 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Interesting look. Typically TCL.

    OK, here in the US, what phones will this really be competing against? Basically anything else with a Snapdragon 625/626. So we're looking at the mid $200 to low $300 range. Add in the Blackberry Enterprise factor and pricing should be about $350-$400.
    There are many better devices on the market than the "Motion."
    There may be other devices that suit your particular needs better, but apart from Samsung Knox, there is nothing that competes with the Motion. Nothing.
    10-06-17 12:01 PM
  18. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    The PKB gives you the USP but with a slab you'll be judged on specs and price. Not sure BB Android apps will help much.
    ...
    I'm sorry, OP, if I'm perhaps picking at your words. And please disregard if you didn't mean it this way but I know some folks do feel this way...

    If you are concerned about how "YOU'LL be judged" based on the phone you carry, you probably aren't the target market for this device. If you want this device because you like it and it suits your needs, then that should be the only criteria to consider.

    If you are buying a device because of how people will judge you, then you are better off buying either Samsung or Apple's latest flagship coming out in 6 months from now (perpetually) and then be prepared to argue (also perpetually) with the folks that decided they have the better of the two and will explain why your decision resulted in you having the inferior device. Because, you know, [sarcastic tone to 11] that's of utmost importance. At least until 3 months later when the next ones are released, of course.

    Since when has a BlackBerry branded device EVER been the most spec'd out handset on the market? Never. And true to their history, this device will likely be a very reliable and tough little workhorse, designed for those concerned most with productivity and security. Those wanting and waiting for a BlackBerry branded device that is undeniably greater than every other handset on the market will be forever disappointed. BlackBerry devices serve a niche market, and if you aren't a part of it, that is OK.
    HighFlight88 likes this.
    10-06-17 12:04 PM
  19. tickerguy's Avatar
    Meh to those who say this is a $300 device (US).

    None of those phones have a decent camera in them. The Motion does; it will have the same camera (we think anyway) as the KeyOne, which is an excellent shooter both front and back. It's not an $800 phone class-camera but this isn't an $800 phone either.

    Find me a 625 device with a 4,000mah battery, kernel hardening and a good camera both front and back, then price it. You come up short typically on two or even three of those metrics when you start getting into the $300 range.

    I don't know where they'll price this, but $499 and it'll probably sell ok. $450 and it'll sell WELL. At $399 I bet it would sell REALLY well, but I don't expect a $400 price-point, simply because that's arguably below the market price of the competitive offerings with a similar feature set.

    My best guess is either $449 or $499 for the tag, and at that tag I bet it does perfectly well, especially into enterprise customers. I might buy one; I like my DTEK60 a lot, but I'm willing to trade some processing power for a true two-day battery life which enables me to "ad-hoc" charge without the risk of running out (in other words "as long as I am in my car for a half-hour every 2 days, or near a plug every 2 days for 30 minutes, I'm completely safe from battery exhaustion.")

    There is nothing else on the market, other than the KeyOne, that I've seen which enables that model of use. Further, and very important for enterprise users (and it ought to be for consumers, but isn't) is the fact that with this model of operation you'll only put about a third of a battery cycle on the phone in heavy-use day.

    This means the battery will not require replacement for four to five years for nearly everyone, which means for the first time in a non-user replaceable battery you have a device that does not have planned obsolescence built into it by design. With water and dust resistance you won't kill it if it gets rained on either, so other than death-by-broken-screen the phone is likely to physically make it to that four-year mark as well.
    10-06-17 12:25 PM
  20. MarkyZ10's Avatar
    I guess Spain doesn't have any enterprise customers then. That is where this secure device will be marketed to.
    stlabrat likes this.
    10-06-17 12:28 PM
  21. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    This means the battery will not require replacement for four to five years for nearly everyone, which means for the first time in a non-user replaceable battery you have a device that does not have planned obsolescence built into it by design. With water and dust resistance you won't kill it if it gets rained on either, so other than death-by-broken-screen the phone is likely to physically make it to that four-year mark as well.
    Uh oh... there goes the end of the BlackBerry Mobile era. In my opinion, this is a big part of why BlackBerry wound up struggling to sell devices in the first place - same as the iPad - longer upgrade cycles and people being content with their devices for a longer period of time. That sounds bad for business!
    10-06-17 02:28 PM
  22. tickerguy's Avatar
    Uh oh... there goes the end of the BlackBerry Mobile era. In my opinion, this is a big part of why BlackBerry wound up struggling to sell devices in the first place - same as the iPad - longer upgrade cycles and people being content with their devices for a longer period of time. That sounds bad for business!
    Well, you'll want to change it here in the US though -- both for the 600Mhz spectrum that T-Mobile has bought (and will be deploying, although it won't be all that material to coverage for about 2-3 years) and for the eventual 5g rollout.

    This eventually killed non-band12 phones for me, as those without Band12 had no service at all in large areas on T-Mobile service. As T-Mobile keeps taking customers from Verizon and AT&T it became a bigger and bigger issue, percentage-of-market wise. The US and it's screwed-up band management problems means that particular problem will never go away, at least in the foreseeable future.
    stlabrat likes this.
    10-06-17 02:41 PM
  23. stlabrat's Avatar
    OP, the motion is intended for high security, not those see little value in security... that is possibly why this happen (see below) - or don't forget Blu embedded chip send all user gps tracking data to china... I guess you possibly don't really care... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/ukraine-hit-massive-cyber-attack1/%2Bspain+hacker+target+financial&client=safari&rls =en&dcr=0&hl=en&ct=clnk]Petya cyber attack: Ransomware spreads across Europe with firms in Ukraine, Britain and Spain shut down[/url]
    no wonder spain is one of those easy target by hackers.. (you possibly rather pay for the bitcoin (to the hacker) than cash (for the device)... ;-).
    10-06-17 03:43 PM
  24. stlabrat's Avatar
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/u...-security.html
    Op, just in case you don't know this... if motion didn't go to spain, I am sure it would be their lost to gain access to your pocket... (what ever budget is.. I think you really like to have one, just want to trash talk to get it lower the price... go get iphone X - start trash talk at appleinsider and come back and tell us how does that go ;-).
    10-06-17 03:56 PM
  25. mrsimon's Avatar
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/u...-security.html
    Op, just in case you don't know this... if motion didn't go to spain, I am sure it would be their lost to gain access to your pocket... (what ever budget is.. I think you really like to have one, just want to trash talk to get it lower the price... go get iphone X - start trash talk at appleinsider and come back and tell us how does that go ;-).
    I sometimes think some people on here have a good few drinks before replying, getting all hot under the collar over an opinion and totally getting the wrong end of the stick.
    Also, getting our heads round the concept of the effectiveness of marketing messages is also tough it seems.
    Let's try again.
    It doesn't matter how good the phone is if consumers and businesses don't perceive it or believe it. And that comes down to advertising and people's trust in a company; not necesarily reality.
    We're talking about a Chinese device (TCL) with a BB logo on it. It's not a BB per se. And consumers are better informed these days.

    It's up to TCL under BBm to get the message across and convince a sceptical and very competitive market.
    If the price is as high as the Dtek (600 euros) they'll need some strong believable arguments.

    They need to make them easier to buy for companies too. BBM is B2C oriented for a start. So much for the business device angle.

    I finally managed to order a Black K1 yesterday, and both BBM and CPW make it very hard to buy for non-UK companies like mine. Luckily Clove exists.

    I wish them success with this model and will be watching with interest as a potential corporate buyer.



    However, since not even the K1 has arrived here in Spain, I'm not holding my breath in the waiting room.
    Cheers.
    10-06-17 06:34 PM
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