[rbg22]

ok so i just got a BB Motion

now it's on Android, pretty much the only reason I get blackberry is I like using the Hub for my different business e-mail accounts

but when you try to turn on Hub, Hub+ Services insists on your giving permission for location if you are to use it

I really don't like supplying my location, and I have no need of the app that makes use of the location in Hub+ Services (something to do with sleeping e-mail (?))

you can turn it off as an option in app settings but then the device won't let you access the Hub at all untill you enab le all permissions in Hub+

and if you disable all permissions, or if you disable the Hub+ Services overall, it won't let you use the Hub at all.

HOWEVER when i look at permissions for the Blackberry Hub, the permissions for Blackberry Hub+ Services is off.



so I have some questions:

1. so does that mean it is not accessing my location after all?

2. if not, can anyone tell me if there is a way around this so i can use Hub without using Hub+ Services?

3. or how do i keep the location permission in Hub+ Services switched off but still use Hub?

4. if i really am being forced to use it, does giving Hub+ Services my location mean other apps can then access my location?

5. is there any point to blackberry anymore if they won't let us deny our location being used?

you don't have to anser that last one but seriously any help would be appreciated.

please can any workaround be clear and jargon-free, i am a small businessman not an IT expert

many thanks for any help

[thurask]

Hub Services is the glue that makes the suite work, since it's Services that handles account management; Hub is just the user interface, the real synchronization of emails, social accounts, calendars, SSO, stuff like that is all in Services. If you want to use it, then yes, you'd have to let Hub Services through.

As for what it needs location for, Hub can snooze messages until the user reaches a location, which is probably what Hub Services needs it for, after searching through the APK.

[rbg22]

ok, thanks for that quick reply

on another note is it possible to avoid giving a google account to the device?

i wanted to download the firefox mobile browser but i have to do it through google play - but if i sign into google on the how much information is google getting about me - and can i sign out of my google account again once i've downloaded an app?

otherwise is the device permanently signed into google?

thanks again

[zer0ten]

You can't hide from Google if you're going to use android. it's best to just accept it or use an old blackberry.

[John Vieira]

You can't hide from Google if you're going to use android. it's best to just accept it or use an old blackberry.

Android is a Google product. If you're not ok with giving Google your information, you should not be using it.

You can instead use an iPhone.

You can also root an Android device, eliminate all Google services, and used open source apps instead.

But you can't root BlackBerry devices, so you'll have to buy a new phone that can be rooted, and of course, there are risks to using stored other than Google Play. Although there are safe alternatives.

And of course, with the lack of Google services, many apps won't work, leading to pretty much the situation with BB10

[tickerguy]

Well that's not completely true.

You can disable Google Play Services and the other Google apps. However, darn near everything that has any sort of authentication (e.g. you bought the app, there's some sort of license associated with the app or data it accesses, etc) demands that Play Services be running or they won't work (because that's how they get the license data and check it), and in addition any sort of notification generally requires it too (because that's how they get the notifications.)

So while you CAN shut all that stuff off doing so will break pretty-much any app that wants any of that sort of access and information, which is most if not all of them.

Google, by the way, has been caught mining location data even when you turn location off (which many people, myself included, routinely do.) How? It has "phone" permission, which it insists on, and uses it to grab the tower you're connected to. This gives them location within a couple of miles in most areas, ~6-10 miles in a rural area, and as close as a city block or two in dense urban areas. If the device's WiFi is turned on they use that too even with location off since there are a huge number of open and private, password-secured WiFi "hotspots", Google knows where most of them are, and even if you aren't connected to them they're visible if you're within a couple hundred feet -- which is very precise location data all on its own (if you have said database, and Google collects that, among other things, when its "streetview" cars drive by.)

Since large companies are never prosecuted or sued by any government agency in the US in any meaningful way, and nobody in those firms EVER goes to prison (even if they steal billions of dollars from customers, as Wells Fargo did multiple times in the last ten years even after being caught previously) it doesn't matter what they do to you or your information or whether they lie about it. This isn't going to change until and unless the people of this country demand it and back that demand with whatever action is necessary and it makes exactly zero difference which large firm you deal with since none of them have any incentive to tell the truth or deal with you in good faith if they can make more money scamming in some fashion.

[Nate tha Great]

^this

[HigherThanMars]

If you want something more secure, get a phone that can be rooted and use Lineage OS with MicroG replacing Google play services and FDroid replacing the Play Store. Connect to a VPN and use a Tor Browser.

[rbg22]

Thanks for the answers

i do take your point but i still think one can take steps to make it a bit harder for them to collect much info

i found a direct download link to firefox and i think i can avoid using google play which i have turned off the location for

there's direct links to some apps or there's amazon apps so at least that disapates the problem

[tickerguy]

Not really. The worst of it is in Play Services and if you turn that off the above applies.

Turning off Play's permission for location will block you from apps that are region-specific (which comes into play with media, mostly, but a few apps are location-restricted as well.)

[anon(10268214)]

It's not possible to eliminate completely, but you can definitely limit your exposure (and still have a useful and fully functional device) by turning off things like location history and using 'device only' for your location. You can also disable location access for the Phone app, Contacts, Calendar, etc. Log out of Google maps. Use a VPN. Basically deny all location access for apps except when absolutely necessary, and dig deep into Settings and your Google Account preferences to eliminate all unwanted location access and tracking happening on the account side. Not a perfect solution, but at least they might only be able to figure out which neighbourhood you are in as opposed to where you sat on the toilet and for how long. Lol.

[tickerguy]

You are assuming that Google actually honors what you set on their apps. The problem is that we know factually they do not, as they were caught mining locations via both WiFi and cell tower data even when location was turned off.

You can (probably) believe that individual apps will be forced by Google to honor what you set on NON-GOOGLE apps. You cannot, however, believe that ANY Google app or property owned by them will honor same because there is hard proof that they have lied in regard to that, were not punished for same, and thus have exactly ZERO reason not to do it again (or indeed to have stopped doing it in the first place!)

[HigherThanMars]

I think it's just that they keep things vague. So you switch off GPS, OK then apps won't use that but they can still track location through WiFi and cellular. The button doesn't say "stop tracking my location, no matter the method" it just turns off GPS so it "technically does what it's supposed to". I'm not saying it OK, it's still conniving and ****ed up but these companies use that Metadata to make money so they are going to get your location with whatever loophole method they can. These companies need to be held to a strict standard for upholding customer privacy but as long as they are super rich, there's not a quick way to do that...

[tickerguy]

No, the actual switch is LOCATION DATA. There's nothing vague about it at all, and any EXTERNAL application will show location NOT AVAILABLE.

Google, on the other hand, was collecting and using location data even though you had it shut off!

There is a "quick way" to do it in the US at least, which is for the people to insist that the long-standing consumer protection law be enforced ("unfair and deceptive practices" for openers.) The problem is that such a "demand" is worthless unless you're willing to back it up with whatever is necessary, up to and including destroying the firms involved and any other firm, agency or other entity that supports, backs,
funds or does business with them.

And.... nobody is.

So the firms give the finger and the government laughs. The reason both happen is that the people refuse to insist -- and mean it.

In the end we, the people have the power -- we just refuse to use it. Yes, its use would have cost -- maybe a lot of it -- but then again the use of power always has a cost.

It's simply a matter of whether we the people, collectively, think its worth it or not.

[HigherThanMars]

I agree with you, I was just saying that the companies don't take it very seriously unless there's pressure put on them. It seems like they intentionally got the data in a roundabout way so that they could deny that they did it on purpose.

In terms of the people using their power, it's the kind of situation where people don't "care" because they don't think they have power but the only reason they think that is because they don't utilize their power to make changes. It's a paradox. We just need more people to step up and voice their concerns. With enough people, anything can be done.

[David Wood3]

so when you lose your phone.... and you have location services off.... you can't go on a browser and load up "Find my Phone" .... get track it down, where you left it or where someone stole it to... just saying

[Chuck Finley69]

No, the actual switch is LOCATION DATA. There's nothing vague about it at all, and any EXTERNAL application will show location NOT AVAILABLE.

Google, on the other hand, was collecting and using location data even though you had it shut off!

There is a "quick way" to do it in the US at least, which is for the people to insist that the long-standing consumer protection law be enforced ("unfair and deceptive practices" for openers.) The problem is that such a "demand" is worthless unless you're willing to back it up with whatever is necessary, up to and including destroying the firms involved and any other firm, agency or other entity that supports, backs,
funds or does business with them.

And.... nobody is.

So the firms give the finger and the government laughs. The reason both happen is that the people refuse to insist -- and mean it.

In the end we, the people have the power -- we just refuse to use it. Yes, its use would have cost -- maybe a lot of it -- but then again the use of power always has a cost.

It's simply a matter of whether we the people, collectively, think its worth it or not.

The cost is worth it to most people in that people willingly participate from the beginning in sheer numbers. Even when consumers know the price of free apps and services is their location data, they overwhelmingly prefer convenience. People knowingly accept many things because it's human nature.