1. llelectronics's Avatar
    Did a camera review (will be released soon for the German BlackBerryBase Community) and found out the camera sensor seems to be a different one to the one on the KeyOne. The lense also seems to be different.
    What I see is a slightly worse lense bending (the distortion at the edges of the images making a straight line bend) and a little bit more noise creeping in in daylight shots compared to the KeyOne.

    Anyone noticed that and maybe other limitations of the new camera?
    Is it known which sensor is actually in the motion (the usual android info tools don't show me the sensor type or name just it's features)

    Posted via CB10
    11-23-17 02:25 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Is it known which sensor is actually in the motion (the usual android info tools don't show me the sensor type or name just it's features)
    No, and as you note, Android tools can't really pull that info anymore without root. I've ran the photos through everything I can find and downloaded every possible app that would tell me lol. It's certainly not the exact same as KEYone though.
    11-23-17 02:32 PM
  3. brookie229's Avatar
    Mr. Mobile's mini comparison of the Motion vs KEYone does indicate a difference between cameras FWIW : https://crackberry.com/mrmobile-blac...YdoLACEfpOW.97

    No details, of course, but it does show a comparison.
    11-23-17 02:37 PM
  4. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    I have both and I can verify without question that image quality wise, not even in the same league. KEYone is better by miles. Everything else is very enjoyable about it and feels laster than KEYone, but can say I am not overly thrilled with the camera and hope @bbmobile will do something software wise to help.
    11-23-17 02:56 PM
  5. Elky64's Avatar
    Got to say, we were expecting more from the camera than what we are actually getting and suppose this might explain it. Just don't see the point in going backwards (if that's the case) other than, well you know... As others said, hopefully a software update can help.

    Was always a stickler for me, BB cameras. Oh the woes of being an early adopter sigh!
    11-23-17 08:17 PM
  6. Carjackd's Avatar
    Got to say, we were expecting more from the camera than what we are actually getting and suppose this might explain it. Just don't see the point in going backwards (if that's the case) other than, well you know... As others said, hopefully a software update can help.

    Was always a stickler for me, BB cameras. Oh the woes of being an early adopter sigh!
    I’m willing to bite it as an early adopter in hopes that a software update fixes it. I remember the passport camera was ok when it was released but it got better and better with each update.
    Elky64 likes this.
    11-24-17 01:47 AM
  7. Elky64's Avatar
    I’m willing to bite it as an early adopter in hopes that a software update fixes it. I remember the passport camera was ok when it was released but it got better and better with each update.
    Hopefully you are right. I'll probably do the same and bite it cuz loving everything else about the phone. To be perfectly honest, dove in fully aware we weren't getting a Pixel type camera experience but believe BB can do much better and there's no reason they can't.
    11-24-17 09:13 AM
  8. ray689's Avatar
    Hopefully you are right. I'll probably do the same and bite it cuz loving everything else about the phone. To be perfectly honest, dove in fully aware we weren't getting a Pixel type camera experience but believe BB can do much better and there's no reason they can't.
    Agreed but I also would like them to address why there isn't a stand alone camera App anymore and how the camera software does get updated now? Is it throug OS updates and if so, I haven't really noticed any changed on the KEYone since launch.
    Elky64 likes this.
    11-24-17 09:17 AM
  9. Elky64's Avatar
    Agreed but I also would like them to address why there isn't a stand alone camera App anymore and how the camera software does get updated now? Is it throug OS updates and if so, I haven't really noticed any changed on the KEYone since launch.
    Being out of the BB loop since 2012 and not really following along with their Android involvement I can't comment on that. Should be achievable either way and just a matter of their willingness to do so.
    11-24-17 10:30 AM
  10. ray689's Avatar
    Being out of the BB loop since 2012 and not really following along with their Android involvement I can't comment on that. Should be achievable either way and just a matter of their willingness to do so.
    Yes I meant I want them to comment on it and give an idea of how camera software is updated/tweaked given there is no camera app anymore.
    Last edited by ray689; 11-24-17 at 04:04 PM.
    Elky64 likes this.
    11-24-17 11:15 AM
  11. llelectronics's Avatar
    My camera review is out now:
    It is in german though. If you don't understand german enjoy some nice sample pictures from Cologne, Germany
    Elky64 and Invictus0 like this.
    11-24-17 01:48 PM
  12. aecgda's Avatar
    Excellent - finally something to complain about!
    Carjackd likes this.
    11-24-17 03:55 PM
  13. attaturk's Avatar
    I called it the day I saw the spec sheet for the Motion even before its release. With the KEYone they always boasted about it having the same sensor as Google Pixel but they never mentioned that when it came to the Motion. So it seemed pretty obvious that they really went the cheap route with the Motion.
    11-25-17 07:50 PM
  14. Doityourself's Avatar
    I thought my keyone black edt camera was bad

    ffs

    now the motion has a rubbish camera !
    11-25-17 08:01 PM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    I thought my keyone black edt camera was bad

    ffs

    now the motion has a rubbish camera !
    What problems are you having with the Keyone's camera?
    11-25-17 08:40 PM
  16. Doityourself's Avatar
    I had a keyone black edition for 2 weeks and got rid. pics were soft. auto focus issues. I was making a video of a fireworks display. the whole minute of video footage the camera was trying to focus. it is pathetic. an iPhone 6 produces better images. no lie
    11-25-17 08:47 PM
  17. Robert22's Avatar
    The Motion camera is a huge disappointment for me. It's an absolutely crappy camera, especially when the light conditions are not perfect. BlackBerry wake up! Why do you a step down from one model to another? Are you blaming your customers?
    12-01-17 09:12 PM
  18. Resilience's Avatar
    The Motion camera is a huge disappointment for me. It's an absolutely crappy camera, especially when the light conditions are not perfect. BlackBerry wake up! Why do you a step down from one model to another? Are you blaming your customers?
    Because it's not a flagship phone , it's a mid to low tier.

    Why would anyone buy a touch screen blackberry is beyond me
    12-05-17 01:16 AM
  19. Jowensmpls's Avatar
    Up until this I would have been a Motion customer but now I have decided to wait until Blackberry returns to being Blackberry. Very disappointed.
    12-05-17 02:54 AM
  20. jackcarr's Avatar
    Because it's not a flagship phone , it's a mid to low tier.

    Why would anyone buy a touch screen blackberry is beyond me
    Simple...more screen. With the Motion, you get more screen than the KEYone with the same internals. And it's a BlackBerry. The camera is fair...nothing to write home about. If you have to have a really good camera, then the Motion isn't for you.
    12-05-17 06:38 AM
  21. tickerguy's Avatar
    The Motion's camera is every bit as good as the KeyONE, and better in some areas.

    If you want a top-tier camera you need one with OIS. Period. Prepare to spend US $700+ on the device.
    12-05-17 08:11 AM
  22. donnation's Avatar
    The Motion's camera is every bit as good as the KeyONE, and better in some areas.

    If you want a top-tier camera you need one with OIS. Period. Prepare to spend US $700+ on the device.
    That's a completely generalized statement regarding OIS. A phone can have good low light performance without it as its not the only thing that determines how well the phone performs in that area. Similarly a phone can have OIS and take garbage low light photos. You are putting all of the Motion's struggles in low light on the fact that it doesn't have OIS, which contributes to it but definitely isn't the only factor.
    12-05-17 08:28 AM
  23. tickerguy's Avatar
    That's a completely generalized statement regarding OIS. A phone can have good low light performance without it as its not the only thing that determines how well the phone performs in that area. Similarly a phone can have OIS and take garbage low light photos. You are putting all of the Motion's struggles in low light on the fact that it doesn't have OIS, which contributes to it but definitely isn't the only factor.
    Well that's technically true (some people are steely-handed and can shoot in low light at low shutter speeds) but the screamfest here on the allegedly "terrible" camera in the Motion is all focused in one place -- blurry shots as a consequence of camera shake.

    OIS would mitigate a large part of that. In other words it compensates for the fool behind the button's sins. I like it a lot on my dSLR lenses, but its best and highest purpose for me in said lenses ISN'T compensating for inability to hand-hold but rather because it steadies the view through the lens during composition which is particularly useful with longer lenses. It has essentially zero value to me on shorter focal length lenses and certainly isn't worth the crazy uptick in price it tends to come with in that application.

    The sensor in most cell cameras today are already large-pixel and relatively wide-aperture. The flirtation with smaller-pixels/more-pixels appears to have ended as people came to realize that going this route destroyed low-light performance and due to physics there was no way around it. A WIDER aperture would of course let in more light however you pay for that directly in depth-of-field reduction and since I'm aware of NO cell camera with a variable aperture (none have an iris) you pay that price on ALL your shots, whether in good or poor light. That in turn means that when there's more than one "thing" in the frame you wish to be in focus, and even sometimes when there's only one (e.g. the Rolex shots in the other thread that were sent to me) you cannot get said focus to be consistent through the frame at the distance you are shooting at and since the focal length of said camera is also typically fixed on a cell camera you can't change THAT either.

    If you don't like the physics involved in photography then the correct response isn't an expression of sympathy but rather something far more-rude, since just like all other physical laws of nature there's not a thing you can do about them.

    In short if you're unhappy with still camera performance on either the KeyONE or Motion (or for that matter many of last-year's "flagships" like the LG V20) the only answer is to buy something that has OIS on it; it's odds-on the reason you're unhappy is almost-certainly due to you (you're shaking the camera during the exposure) when shooting in low-light conditions.
    Last edited by tickerguy; 12-05-17 at 09:00 AM.
    12-05-17 08:48 AM
  24. Robert22's Avatar
    Well that's technically true (some people are steely-handed and can shoot in low light at low shutter speeds) but the screamfest here on the allegedly "terrible" camera in the Motion is all focused in one place -- blurry shots as a consequence of camera shake.

    OIS would mitigate a large part of that. In other words it compensates for the fool behind the button's sins. I like it a lot on my dSLR lenses, but its best and highest purpose for me in said lenses ISN'T compensating for inability to hand-hold but rather because it steadies the view through the lens during composition which is particularly useful with longer lenses. It has essentially zero value to me on shorter focal length lenses and certainly isn't worth the crazy uptick in price it tends to come with in that application.

    The sensor in most cell cameras today are already large-pixel and relatively wide-aperture. The flirtation with smaller-pixels/more-pixels appears to have ended as people came to realize that going this route destroyed low-light performance and due to physics there was no way around it. A WIDER aperture would of course let in more light however you pay for that directly in depth-of-field reduction and since I'm aware of NO cell camera with a variable aperture (none have an iris) you pay that price on ALL your shots, whether in good or poor light. That in turn means that when there's more than one "thing" in the frame you wish to be in focus, and even sometimes when there's only one (e.g. the Rolex shots in the other thread that were sent to me) you cannot get said focus to be consistent through the frame at the distance you are shooting at and since the focal length of said camera is also typically fixed on a cell camera you can't change THAT either.

    If you don't like the physics involved in photography then the correct response isn't an expression of sympathy but rather something far more-rude, since just like all other physical laws of nature there's not a thing you can do about them.

    In short if you're unhappy with still camera performance on either the KeyONE or Motion (or for that matter many of last-year's "flagships" like the LG V20) the only answer is to buy something that has OIS on it; it's odds-on the reason you're unhappy is almost-certainly due to you (you're shaking the camera during the exposure) when shooting in low-light conditions.
    I hoped, the option "focus before taking picture" in the camera settings will handle it. Unfortunately it doesn't work as it should.
    12-05-17 09:20 AM
  25. tickerguy's Avatar
    I hoped, the option "focus before taking picture" in the camera settings will handle it. Unfortunately it doesn't work as it should.
    "Focus before taking picture" will do exactly ZERO if you shake the camera during low light shots.

    Your claim is bereft of evidence; I note you haven't sent me anything that you claim demonstrates this "defect."

    If you are correct in your analysis, and shot at something with sufficient subject depth so that *something* had to be in focus if the camera mis-focused, that is, if it's the CAMERA'S fault, then that "something" would BE in sharp focus SOMEWHERE in the frame. This is called "back focus" or "front focus" in the dSLR world, depending on which direction the error is present, because in the context of an actual camera error it arises due to a slight misalignment between the focal distance of the focus sensors in the pentaprism and the actual distance from the lens flange to the sensor plane. Better dSLRs have compensation for this exposed to the user because with interchangable lenses the error can be in the LENS as well, so the requirement to micro-adjust can vary from one lens to another both in direction and magnitude. On a mirrorless camera (of which all phone cameras are), any such error is unlikely but IF present is almost-certain to be in one direction only, since the focus sensors are on the same die as the image sensors (in fact, they're part of the same sensor array and dual-use.) If, on the other hand, the reason for the problem is that YOU SHOOK THE CAMERA then *nothing* will be in focus irrespective of the depth in the shot because the issue is not a focus error at all. I have yet to see ONE image from the alleged "blurry" Motion camera that exhibits either front or back focus errors; every single one of them that I've looked at had NOTHING in focus -- that eliminates front or back-focusing errors in said shots.

    Now is it possible that the camera didn't focus *at all*? Well, no, not in the shots seen thus far. Why? Because there's no evidence for that; a camera that fails to focus at all will not be "soft" or "blurry" it will be ridiculously out-of-focus and obvious.
    Last edited by tickerguy; 12-05-17 at 10:17 AM.
    12-05-17 09:49 AM
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