12-05-17 08:14 AM
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  1. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    Hi everyone, the Camera on the Motion was doing great until recently. In mid light shots everything is very very soft. In low light it's worse still. Hoping that BlackBerry Mobile has a fix in the works because the KeyOne takes stellar shots under the same conditions!

    Just wondering if others have noticed too?
    11-22-17 04:48 PM
  2. MaxR_A's Avatar
    Could be that you have HDR on in low light rather than in the automatic setting? This was something I discovered on my Priv.
    11-22-17 06:21 PM
  3. Invictus0's Avatar
    Have you tried with and without flash on both devices? The flash housings are different but I don't know if that will impact quality to a significant degree.
    11-22-17 07:44 PM
  4. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    HDR is set at auto and so is flash. It is kind of frustrating. Seems like the Camera app needs some software tweaks. Also noticed the shutter lag can get lengthy. Worst of all, even perfectly still, the image is still very very soft and lacks detail of any kind. KeyOne is so much faster and crisp and detailed pictures are spot on. I will see if I can upload some pics.
    11-22-17 08:35 PM
  5. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    This is a good example. Very very soft as you can see. Lens is clean and no this was not with the front camera. Hahaha!
    Attached Thumbnails Blurry Camera?-5462.jpg  
    chris1h likes this.
    11-22-17 08:37 PM
  6. Invictus0's Avatar
    The Camera app hasn't been updated since October 2016 on Google Play so I don't know if we'll see any further optimizations. Have you tried any other camera apps?
    11-22-17 09:27 PM
  7. Doityourself's Avatar
    that's put me off the motion completely! :/
    11-22-17 09:30 PM
  8. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    Hopefully @bbmobile is watching these forums and paying attention. Something is definitely off here. I will try another camera app, but not sure what that will do though. We will see I guess.
    Silkaz likes this.
    11-22-17 10:03 PM
  9. aecgda's Avatar
    This is a good example. Very very soft as you can see. Lens is clean and no this was not with the front camera. Hahaha!
    Great display!
    11-23-17 05:18 AM
  10. ray689's Avatar
    The Camera app hasn't been updated since October 2016 on Google Play so I don't know if we'll see any further optimizations. Have you tried any other camera apps?
    The camera App isn't available as a stand alone anymore for the KEYone or Motion from my understanding (try to search for it in Google play on either device). Supposedly it's now part of OS updates on Android N.
    11-23-17 07:41 AM
  11. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Do you have it set to focus before taking a picture?
    11-23-17 10:02 AM
  12. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    Yes, that is after focusing. Without focus it is slightly worse. Must admit, it is disappointing considering the Price. There are other phones that easily do better. My tired old Classic I pulled out of the drawer took a much clearer picture last night. I can still hope @bbmobile is listening.
    11-23-17 10:31 AM
  13. Invictus0's Avatar
    The camera App isn't available as a stand alone anymore for the KEYone or Motion from my understanding (try to search for it in Google play on either device). Supposedly it's now part of OS updates on Android N.
    Interesting, seems odd to move "backwards" unless OEM's are making their own modifications and that's the only way to give them access?
    11-23-17 10:49 AM
  14. ray689's Avatar
    Yes, that is after focusing. Without focus it is slightly worse. Must admit, it is disappointing considering the Price. There are other phones that easily do better. My tired old Classic I pulled out of the drawer took a much clearer picture last night. I can still hope @bbmobile is listening.
    Something doesn't seem right here. Try turning off focus before picture and manually tap on screen for focus and see if that helps.
    @LiamQ, can you clarify why the camera app is not longer stand alone and not being updated? And what is BlackBerry doing with the camera software to improve things?
    11-23-17 11:14 AM
  15. Leatherfacez10's Avatar
    This is with auto focus off and similar light conditions. No amount of tapping to focus helps. This was taken with it on a solid platform. Very very poor detail. Not blurry, but tremendously soft. Please @bbmobile do something.
    Attached Thumbnails Blurry Camera?-5461.jpg  
    11-23-17 02:59 PM
  16. Invictus0's Avatar
    Interesting discussion on this issue here,

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...keyone-1131549
    11-23-17 03:54 PM
  17. Elky64's Avatar
    Interesting discussion on this issue here,

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...keyone-1131549
    More disappointing than interesting, if true the sensor is a step down.
    11-23-17 08:43 PM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    More disappointing than interesting, if true the sensor is a step down.
    Definitely, especially at this price.
    11-23-17 09:11 PM
  19. Gajja's Avatar
    Definitely, especially at this price.
    But it was working great up to this point, right?
    11-24-17 06:34 AM
  20. tickerguy's Avatar
    Not convinced folks; blurry is usually too slow of a shutter speed for conditions (hand-held, lighting, etc.) If it's not then it's defective.

    So, before condemning it, check that -- the BB camera app allows manual control which will tell you what the camera is choosing and let you override same.

    I'd write up a comparative piece but I can't since I don't have a Motion....
    11-24-17 09:18 AM
  21. eldricho's Avatar
    that's put me off the motion completely! :/
    It sure is off putting indeed :/
    11-24-17 09:26 AM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    But it was working great up to this point, right?
    Not really, there were concerns early on.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...dback-1129088/

    Not convinced folks; blurry is usually too slow of a shutter speed for conditions (hand-held, lighting, etc.) If it's not then it's defective.

    So, before condemning it, check that -- the BB camera app allows manual control which will tell you what the camera is choosing and let you override same.

    I'd write up a comparative piece but I can't since I don't have a Motion....
    It's likely not a user problem, Mr. Mobile had similar results (around 3:35).



    So did another CrackBerry user,

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...keyone-1131549

    The camera isn't bad under the right conditions but it's certainly not on par with the Keyone.
    11-24-17 10:38 AM
  23. tickerguy's Avatar
    Meh.

    Again, show me the EXIF data on the pictures in allegedly-identical conditions, or the display of said data on the screen before the shot is clicked (which you can turn on via camera options.)

    Without it I know nothing about the so-called "soft" pictures. "Soft" means one of two things, generally -- either out-of-focus (and with PDAF on both sensors, that's unlikely never mind that if it was out-of-focus with sufficient depth of field SOMETHING would be in focus in the frame -- just not the intended subject) OR the shutter speed is too low to stop the motion. If the entire FRAME is blurry then the motion that is too violent for the shutter speed to stop IS IN THE CAMERA (that is, your HAND is shaking!)

    Of course it's possible to get a defective unit where despite the PDAF being on-sensor the unit moves the lens beyond the focal point but I doubt that very much since there are multiple reports. Further, as I noted you'd get either front or back focus, not a frame ENTIRELY out of focus.

    Physics wins always. A completely "soft" image means either the lens is awful (and thus can't produce a sharp image) or the shutter is too slow for conditions. Since we know the camera produces good images in bright light that eliminates the lens; such a defect would be universal since the f/stop of a cell camera is fixed.

    Again, with a bit of investigation you can QUITE EASILY determine if the camera module is almost-certainly the same, or at least of the same series. How? Again, from the EXIF data -- you get the bitwise depth (WxH) and exposure parameters on the shot, so you can directly compare the two. This doesn't control for possible differences in the JPEG processing (which can exist but are unlikely since it's the same basic firmware load on both devices, and likely the same camera app) but it would go a VERY LONG WAY to figuring out what's going on.

    Issuing an indictment of the camera without doing so is journalistic bankruptcy bordering on fraud. Doing so AFTER and with an illustration of that investigation would be "reporting" and EXTREMELY useful -- but it might also disclose that you have shaky hands and the camera is just fine.....

    Before condemning (or lauding) something let's look at facts. I did exactly that when I did my KeyONE review but due to lack of available hardware in the US I can't do the same with the Motion at the present time.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-24-17 11:14 AM
  24. Invictus0's Avatar
    Mr Mobile has been reviewing phones (and their cameras) for years, do you really think he wouldn't compare the Motion and Keyone under identical conditions? If the Motion and Keyone are using the same sensor but the Motion can't match the Keyone out of the box then there's likely an issue.

    Regardless, he's a Mobile Nations employee so I'm sure he has a forum account that you can PM for more info on his tests (or maybe Bla1ze/CBK can alert him to this thread?).
    11-24-17 11:43 AM
  25. tickerguy's Avatar
    Mr Mobile has been reviewing phones (and their cameras) for years, do you really think he wouldn't compare the Motion and Keyone under identical conditions? If the Motion and Keyone are using the same sensor but the Motion can't match the Keyone out of the box then there's likely an issue.
    Again, WHAT HE SHOWED appeared to be SHUTTER BLUR (that is, camera movement such that the resolving power of the imager exceeds the movement of the image on the sensor during the time the shutter is open.) It was NOT an error in focusing (which would produce SOME part of the image in-focus -- this is known as "back focus" or "front focus" in the camera world and is exactly what it sounds like) AND since he got crisp photos outside in higher light conditions we know the lens isn't defective either (a lens doesn't produce sharp images in one light condition and blurry ones in others! That's not physically possible.)

    I don't care how many other reviews he's done or what his alleged pedigree is. As someone who has been taking pictures in various contexts, including in some cases professionally, since the 1970s back when film was all there was, it took me just seconds to conclude what was *likely* going on in his examples -- camera shake coupled with a too-slow shutter speed.

    Now this could EASILY be a bad set of default parameters in the camera app (that is, instead of popping up the ISO a notch and thus allowing a faster shutter, it inappropriately chooses a slower ISO and shutter, resulting in shake-induced blur in low-light conditions) but that doesn't make the camera "inferior", ESPECIALLY since you can select that in the BlackBerry camera app if you so choose. There's also evidence of an inappropriate ISO selection in the low-light performance tests generally; they're under-exposed, and I very much doubt the camera is out of ISO range since there's no evidence of heavy grain (I note that in my testing the KeyONE was able to resolve quite nicely when my bare eyes were barely able to, but the grain at that low light level was unacceptable for anything but social media quickies.)

    Of course HAD HE BOTHERED TO LOOK at the EXIF data in the files what was going on could be easily determined, and then he could have spoken to the ACTUAL ISSUE. Instead we got a dissing born out of lack of knowledge. If this is because he doesn't understand how cameras work then it's plain old-fashioned worthless. If he DOES and intentionally refused to look then it's worse.

    Regardless, he's a Mobile Nations employee so I'm sure he has a forum account that you can PM for more info on his tests (or maybe Bla1ze/CBK can alert him to this thread?).
    That just makes the issue even worse; why would BlackBerry Mobile have ANY affiliation or invite ANY employee of Mobile Nations to ANY of its events if they're going to run into this sort of "reporting" by either unskilled or worse, BIASED people?
    dom7 likes this.
    11-24-17 12:46 PM
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