[baldy3577]

And DTEK.

Which is utterly useless since it only tells you there's an issue, but not what it is nor what caused it.

On my DTEK60 it's been showing poor for months. Despite a factory reset, it decided it's poor again after an app update one day for a google app (can't remember which one).

[conite]

Which is utterly useless since it only tells you there's an issue, but not what it is nor what caused it.

On my DTEK60 it's been showing poor for months. Despite a factory reset, it decided it's poor again after an app update one day for a google app (can't remember which one).

It's not useless. While monitoring the use of permissions, I've caught many a strange thing with it, where I would have been blissfully unaware otherwise.

It is also the user-face for Integrity Detection with its real-time monitoring of the system files. You have chosen to ignore it, but even popular apps can behave badly either maliciously or through poor coding.

[anon(10268214)]

It's not useless. While monitoring the use of permissions, I've caught many a strange thing with it, where I would have been blissfully unaware otherwise.

It is also the user-face for Integrity Detection with it's real-time monitoring of the system files. You have chosen to ignore it, but even popular apps can behave badly either maliciously or through poor coding.

It's interesting because earlier in this thread, I was talking about an Amazon app that others here suggested was of questionable origin on my brand new unlocked black edition K1. The app also persisted after a factory reset (all was fine with DTEK as well, BTW). After applying the almost 500 MB October security patch, I am now getting an OS compromised message.

I will report back after the reset. Knowledge is good. Lol.

Edit: After the reset...and an Autoload to AAP683 just for fun...Amazon is still there. OS no longer 'compromised'. Well that wasn't too productive.

[bitek]

Do you have a source OP?



Comparable devices like the ZenFone 3 Zoom sell for around $479 CAD

Zenphone? Are you serious ? With all that awful bloatware installed on the phone. Much of that bloatware cannot be removed.

It is just not right to compare awesome keyone to cheap Asus phones.

Keyone is clearly superior phone. Put both next to each other and you will see the price difference.

One looks like a cheap iPhone and second one looks like a professional business tool on the go.

[Invictus0]

Zenphone? Are you serious ? With all that awful bloatware installed on the phone. Much of that bloatware cannot be removed.

It is just not right to compare awesome keyone to cheap Asus phones.

Keyone is clearly superior phone. Put both next to each other and you will see the price difference.

One looks like a cheap iPhone and second one looks like a professional business tool on the go.

The Asus phones I've used only come preinstalled with apps like a file manager, gallery, etc which can be removed or disabled if a user doesn't want them. It's no different from preloads on BlackBerry Android.

Regardless, the poster I was responding to asked about price.

[tickerguy]

The ASUS Zenfone has no Band12 support which makes it not only non-comparable it is severely crippled in coverage on US carriers (BOTH AT&T and T-Mobile, since AT&T is now advertising their Band 17 as 12.)

In short it's as "capable" as an LTE device as is a Z10. Fine five years ago, but completely unacceptable in the United States on a GSM carrier today.

[Invictus0]

The ASUS Zenfone has no Band12 support which makes it not only non-comparable it is severely crippled in coverage on US carriers (BOTH AT&T and T-Mobile, since AT&T is now advertising their Band 17 as 12.)

In short it's as "capable" as an LTE device as is a Z10. Fine five years ago, but completely unacceptable in the United States on a GSM carrier today.

I'm not sure if any carriers stock Asus phones in the US (they usually sell phones unlocked IIRC) but you'd still have access to a 700 MHz band through 17.

[tickerguy]

Not if the tower doesn't advertise it as being available on 17, or (in the case of T-Mobile) it actually is 12 (12 is a superset of 17.)

The chipset in that phone is capable of 12, and so is the antenna since 17 is part of 12. Asus, however, has refused to update their firmware to enable it to connect on 12.

This is one of the "gotchas" with trying to find comparable devices in the unlocked world; you have to pay close attention to the band(s) supported as well as other bogons such as what Motorola did with deleting NFC from their midrange devices.

[Invictus0]

Not if the tower doesn't advertise it as being available on 17, or (in the case of T-Mobile) it actually is 12 (12 is a superset of 17.)

The chipset in that phone is capable of 12, and so is the antenna since 17 is part of 12. Asus, however, has refused to update their firmware to enable it to connect on 12.

This is one of the "gotchas" with trying to find comparable devices in the unlocked world; you have to pay close attention to the band(s) supported as well as other bogons such as what Motorola did with deleting NFC from their midrange devices.

Agreed and I'm not saying the Zoom is the end all be all but it's comparable enough to the Motion that it gives us a rough idea of how much value BB Android brings to the table. Whether a buyer agrees or disagrees with that added cost is up to them.

[tickerguy]

I disagree entirely in the US at least.

The value of the Zoom in the US market is approximately zero since it won't connect to ER-LTE at all in many areas on any carrier, and it won't connect to any ER-LTE on T-Mobile anywhere.

Contrary to many people's assertions the carriers are not just using that 700Mhz spectrum in "rural, sticks-style" areas. They're deploying it where they can because it gets into buildings far better than higher-frequency signals do and it also requires fewer towers as it has longer range. Yes, it's lower density but that's the point -- they are increasingly using it as the "backbone" and the higher-frequency bands as "fill", spilling you onto them when you have an adequate signal and are in-range.

The big issue with 700Mhz is that it's a band with problems in two areas -- UHF Channel 51 TV stations (MOST of which have now moved, but not all) and some other users who are "dawdling" (the worst of which is probably the US .MIL) and preventing deployment. Several years ago this resulted in "holes" in Band 12/17 coverage but those holes are rapidly closing; I know of two specific UHF 51 LARGE "holes" remaining, one in Memphis that should be gone by the end of 2018 and another smaller one near Marion, IN that will not migrate until close to the end of 2019. Most of the others are either gone or will be by the end of 2017.

(We had one in this general area that "went away" in the middle of the year... so now we're starting to see 12 deployments around here, which is nice since in-building penetration by PCS frequencies sucks.)

[Invictus0]

I disagree entirely in the US at least.

The value of the Zoom in the US market is approximately zero since it won't connect to ER-LTE at all in many areas on any carrier, and it won't connect to any ER-LTE on T-Mobile anywhere.

Contrary to many people's assertions the carriers are not just using that 700Mhz spectrum in "rural, sticks-style" areas. They're deploying it where they can because it gets into buildings far better than higher-frequency signals do and it also requires fewer towers as it has longer range. Yes, it's lower density but that's the point -- they are increasingly using it as the "backbone" and the higher-frequency bands as "fill", spilling you onto them when you have an adequate signal and are in-range.

The big issue with 700Mhz is that it's a band with problems in two areas -- UHF Channel 51 TV stations (MOST of which have now moved, but not all) and some other users who are "dawdling" (the worst of which is probably the US .MIL) and preventing deployment. Several years ago this resulted in "holes" in Band 12/17 coverage but those holes are rapidly closing; I know of two specific UHF 51 LARGE "holes" remaining, one in Memphis that should be gone by the end of 2018 and another smaller one near Marion, IN that will not migrate until close to the end of 2019. Most of the others are either gone or will be by the end of 2017.

(We had one in this general area that "went away" in the middle of the year... so now we're starting to see 12 deployments around here, which is nice since in-building penetration by PCS frequencies sucks.)

There we go then, in your eyes the added LTE bands are worth the premium.

[ray689]

Speaking of 'Spamazon' people might be interested to know the Amazon app that comes pre-installed on the KEYone has 'Usage Access' (under Apps/Settings/Special Access) permitted by default. Needless to say, it has been disabled, even though I can't uninstall that app for some reason. Lol.

Doesn't sound right. Never had Amazon app pre-installed on my KEYone and it's a carrier device.

[tickerguy]

A phone that has no signal is worth zero.

I have a perfectly-functional Z10 that has exactly ZERO usable signal in a large part of the country on T-Mobile. On the same carrier my DTEK60 has an excellent LTE signal.

Those "added" bands are no longer optional if you want reasonable service; in fact after the end of this year on AT&T if you have no LTE capability in a given area because you're missing bands you may well have nothing at all since they're going to be shutting off their remaining EDGE/GSM service around that time and re-aligning the towers to provide service on those (not-important to you!) LTE bands!

[anon(10268214)]

Doesn't sound right. Never had Amazon app pre-installed on my KEYone and it's a carrier device.

Well it's on my Black Edition. Not sure where it came from, but so far no one else here (aside from the odd joke) has been able to verify whether or not it ought to have come pre-installed on the Black Edition. I'd love to get rid of it if I could, that's for sure. But I've already done a few factory wipes and two autoloader installs...one would think I would have been able to get rid of it by now if it was something I had inadvertently installed myself.

[Invictus0]

A phone that has no signal is worth zero.

I have a perfectly-functional Z10 that has exactly ZERO usable signal in a large part of the country on T-Mobile. On the same carrier my DTEK60 has an excellent LTE signal.

Those "added" bands are no longer optional if you want reasonable service; in fact after the end of this year on AT&T if you have no LTE capability in a given area because you're missing bands you may well have nothing at all since they're going to be shutting off their remaining EDGE/GSM service around that time and re-aligning the towers to provide service on those (not-important to you!) LTE bands!

If you're going to respond to something I say at least quote the post, it makes it easier to find.

I didn't say LTE bands weren't important for me, they're certainly not important enough for me spend an extra ~$220 on a phone though.

[silentbystander]

Well it's on my Black Edition. Not sure where it came from, but so far no one else here (aside from the odd joke) has been able to verify whether or not it ought to have come pre-installed on the Black Edition. I'd love to get rid of it if I could, that's for sure. But I've already done a few factory wipes and two autoloader installs...one would think I would have been able to get rid of it by now if it was something I had inadvertently installed myself.

Typing this on my Amazon.ca purchased Black Edition and I don't have any Amazon app installed.

[anon(10268214)]

Typing this on my Amazon.ca purchased Black Edition and I don't have any Amazon app installed.

Good to know. According to my carrier it didn't come from them either. So the only remaining possibility would be Google's NFC setup utility I used when I switched from my S7 Edge to my K1 BE and 'transfered' info from my old phone to my new one. Thanks Google!

Anyone know if this can be fixed somehow?

[Invictus0]

Good to know. According to my carrier it didn't come from them either. So the only remaining possibility would be Google's NFC setup utility I used when I switched from my S7 Edge to my K1 BE and 'transfered' info from my old phone to my new one. Thanks Google!

Anyone know if this can be fixed somehow?

I assume the app would have been removed when you wiped your device if it transfered from your S7. If nothing else makes sense, maybe it's just a manufacturing glitch and they loaded the wrong variant onto the device?

[ray689]

Well it's on my Black Edition. Not sure where it came from, but so far no one else here (aside from the odd joke) has been able to verify whether or not it ought to have come pre-installed on the Black Edition. I'd love to get rid of it if I could, that's for sure. But I've already done a few factory wipes and two autoloader installs...one would think I would have been able to get rid of it by now if it was something I had inadvertently installed myself.

Are you logging in with your google account that you previously used on another android device after you wipe? And if so, did you have amazon app downloaded and tied to that Google account? If so, then all it is doing is downloading all apps in your library that you had previously installed with that Google account. Uninstalling the app, and going into Google play removing it from your library all together should do the trick if what I stated is indeed the case. Once you wipe and restore, the app won't be tied to your google play account anymore and shouldn't restore.

[anon(10268214)]

Are you logging in with your google account that you previously used on another android device after you wipe? And if so, did you have amazon app downloaded and tied to that Google account? If so, then all it is doing is downloading all apps in your library that you had previously installed with that Google account. Uninstalling the app, and going into Google play removing it from your library all together should do the trick if what I stated is indeed the case. Once you wipe and restore, the app won't be tied to your google play account anymore and shouldn't restore.

That's the thing...this Amazon app behaves like a system app...it doesn't even show up on Playstore at all, and can only be disabled but not removed. So obviously it was put there by an entity with elevated privileges and independent of the Playstore. I can't think of where else this could originate other than the manufacturer or possibly the carrier (for my previous device). However, as others have suggested, if it was carrier bloat I should have been able to remove it once I switched devices.

[anon(10268214)]

I assume the app would have been removed when you wiped your device if it transfered from your S7. If nothing else makes sense, maybe it's just a manufacturing glitch and they loaded the wrong variant onto the device?

Then I guess the question should be is there a variant of the K1 BE that has this Amazon app pre-installed? It certainly isn't listed anywhere, as far as I can tell.

[ray689]

Then I guess the question should be is there a variant of the K1 BE that has this Amazon app pre-installed? It certainly isn't listed anywhere, as far as I can tell.

Did you ever have a BB10 device with the amazon app store (when it came preloaded) and did you use the same log in details as you do now? And when you wipe your device, are you restoring? Maybe try a wipe without a restore and see what that does. I know it a pain and will require you to download your apps manually but not sure what else there is to try or it could be. I haven't heard of any other KEYone device with this issue.

[anon(10268214)]

Did you ever have a BB10 device with the amazon app store (when it came preloaded) and did you use the same log in details as you do now? And when you wipe your device, are you restoring? Maybe try a wipe without a restore and see what that does. I know it a pain and will require you to download your apps manually but not sure what else there is to try or it could be. I haven't heard of any other KEYone device with this issue.

Yes I do recall this exact app (well, at least it looked the same lol) was on BB10 but I created a completely new user ID when I switched to the PRIV. I don't recall ever seeing that app on my PRIV. I believe it was pre-installed on my S7 but if that's the case, I can't see under what authority (other than Google setup) it could have somehow overridden privileges on my K1 and gotten written onto my device as a non-removable app. Since the carrier is all but ruled out, and the app is absent from PlayStore, the only way I can see that physically happening is when I did an NFC tap to assist the setup and migrate from the S7 to my K1 BE. Still, I can't see how privileges from a non-BlackBerry device can somehow override my user privileges on an unlocked BlackBerry device and install an app with system access? This should not be possible.

[ray689]

Yes I do recall this exact app (well, at least it looked the same lol) was on BB10 but I created a completely new user ID when I switched to the PRIV. I don't recall ever seeing that app on my PRIV. I believe it was pre-installed on my S7 but if that's the case, I can't see under what authority (other than Google setup) it could have somehow overridden privileges on my K1 and gotten written onto my device as a non-removable app. Since the carrier is all but ruled out, and the app is absent from PlayStore, the only way I can see that physically happening is when I did an NFC tap to assist the setup and migrate from the S7 to my K1 BE. Still, I can't see how privileges from a non-BlackBerry device can somehow override my user privileges on an unlocked BlackBerry device and install an app with system access? This should not be possible.

Hmm interesting. I guess in order to figure out if it was the NFC transfer, you may have to wipe without a restore and simply install apps manually. The amazon app I think once installed requires those permission so if it was simply due to the NFC transfer and tied to your google account, it would have been downloaded and given those permissions as they are a requirement of the amazon app store. Its not that anything nefarious is going on. Its just that you restore/installed it in your transfer. And since you are simply restring every time you wipe, it is coming back. That's the only logical conclusion I can come to. So with that said, a wipe and no restore...simply manual download from Google play of your apps is likely the way to get rid of it.

[HigherThanMars]

According to this Canadian Amazon page, the price of the Motion is $779.99CAD:

https://www.amazon.ca/BlackBerry-Sin...UvbUpU13076600