1. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    Adding to questions/issues about this new launcher:


    Why does it need that wide range of Permissions. Sorry, but I'm more and more reluctant to grant such a wide range of permissions:
    That's because he made his own hub instead of the widget.
    G_Unit MVP and Mecca EL like this.
    01-19-18 02:21 PM
  2. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    BB met there legal obligations. Why should a company fighting to survive endanger that chance of survival for BB10, a known failure?
    I never suggested that. Please, read again my post #39

    No need to repeat the corporate line again and again. I agree with that, any rational person knows that BB10 is over, there is no argument to make against that.
    01-19-18 02:22 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    I never suggested that. Please, read again my post #39

    No need to repeat the corporate line again and again. I agree with that, any rational person knows that BB10 is over, there is no argument to make against that.
    Yet you're hung up on BlackBerry providing new, free benefits even though they have no present or future consumer products for which they need goodwill.
    01-19-18 02:25 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I never suggested that. Please, read again my post #39

    No need to repeat the corporate line again and again. I agree with that, any rational person knows that BB10 is over, there is no argument to make against that.
    You brought up support in #35 . As shareholder, I'm supportive of not wasting money. I'm part of that corporate line.
    01-19-18 02:28 PM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yep, my point is if BlackBerry wanted, they could have done at least some basic maintenance with a very small team of developers. I'm talking about 10 people or less. Financially insignificant for a large corporation, and with all the time in the world cause no one is really rushing them... and again, no big improvements or major development, just minimum maintenance.
    Here. The point is shareholders don't want anymore wasted on BB10. Enough is enough. Back then even, it's just wasteful.
    01-19-18 02:29 PM
  6. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Yet you're hung up on BlackBerry providing new, free benefits even though they have no present or future consumer products for which they need goodwill.
    I'm not! I'm not asking anything. I was just saying that it was completely possible, with a minimum amount of money and a pretty small group a people to push some minor updates. Not now, not today, a couple years back.

    I'm just highlighting the fact that the argument against that was always that it will cost millions and tons of developers.
    01-19-18 02:30 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I'm not! I'm not asking anything. I was just saying that it was completely possible, with a minimum amount of money and a pretty small group a people to push some minor updates. Not now, not today, a couple years back.

    I'm just highlighting the fact that the argument against that was always that it will cost millions and tons of developers.
    Two years ago it was explicitly stated that the future of BB10 would only involve security patches. Hence NIAP, an anti-phish filter, and new certificates.

    They also threw in some incremental app updates.

    The business outlook was no different then than it is now.
    01-19-18 02:34 PM
  8. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Two years ago it was explicitly stated that the future of BB10 would only involve security patches. Hence NIAP, an anti-phish filter, and new certificates.

    They also threw in some incremental app updates.

    The business outlook was no different then than it is now.
    That's ok, I'm not arguing that.

    It was repeated to exhaustion all over the forums that to maintain or ever just give some minor upgrades here and them "will cost millions and tons of developers".
    And even this argument was used to justify the end of security patches for the Priv, Dteks, etc.
    01-19-18 02:59 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    That's ok, I'm not arguing that.

    It was repeated to exhaustion all over the forums that to maintain or ever just give some minor upgrades here and them "will cost millions and tons of developers".
    And even this argument was used to justify the end of security patches for the Priv, Dteks, etc.
    True for BB10.

    Not so much for the Priv. That was just a business decision.
    01-19-18 03:20 PM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    But BlackBerry has no consumer product to sell you anymore, so why care?

    There IS a business case to fixing your AC or cleaning the office - it's tied to employee productivity. There is absolutely a ROI.
    BB is still selling a product. Maybe not directly to me or other consumers but to BB Mobile. If folks get tired of waiting for improvements in the Hub or fixes, they might stop buying the BB Mobile product and BB Mobile might stop buying/licensing BB's software. Indirect, possibly but one can't say that BB is not serving consumers of one sort or another.

    Now do I think BB cares - probably not a whit!
    01-19-18 04:04 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    BB is still selling a product. Maybe not directly to me or other consumers but to BB Mobile. If folks get tired of waiting for improvements in the Hub or fixes, they might stop buying the BB Mobile product and BB Mobile might stop buying/licensing BB's software. Indirect, possibly but one can't say that BB is not serving consumers of one sort or another.

    Now do I think BB cares - probably not a whit!
    But they are improving the App Suite. There are updates twice a month. The point is if there's any value in trying to appease former BB10 users.
    FF22 likes this.
    01-19-18 04:09 PM
  12. Zinqs LLC's Avatar
    Adding to questions/issues about this new launcher:


    Why does it need that wide range of Permissions. Sorry, but I'm more and more reluctant to grant such a wide range of permissions:

    Identity
    find accounts on the device

    Contacts
    find accounts on the device
    read your contacts

    Location
    approximate location (network-based)
    precise location (GPS and network-based)

    SMS
    read your text messages (SMS or MMS)
    receive text messages (SMS)

    Phone
    directly call phone numbers
    modify phone state
    read call log
    read phone status and identity

    Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Camera
    take pictures and videos

    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections

    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity

    Other
    choose widgets
    modify battery statistics
    modify secure system settings
    view network connections
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    access Bluetooth settings
    change network connectivity
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
    full network access
    change your audio settings
    draw over other apps
    modify system settings
    set an alarm
    @FF22, here is why we ask for these (inline explanation).

    Identity
    find accounts on the device - [Shakir]. We need this to find whom to request the payment for

    Contacts
    find accounts on the device [Shakir ] To translate your SMS phone numbers to human readable contact name]
    read your contacts [Shakir ] Need to query the contacts database so we can show you who you got messages from

    Location
    approximate location (network-based) [Shakir ] Most phones won't turn on WIFI, without this option. We need this for Android 6.0 and above i believe
    precise location (GPS and network-based)

    SMS
    read your text messages (SMS or MMS) [Shakir ] We need to show messages in Hub
    receive text messages (SMS)

    Phone
    directly call phone numbers [Shakir ] We have call permission for hub. You can directly initiate a phone call (Yet to be implemented)
    modify phone state [Shakir ] This is broad, one of the things we modify is, Airplane mode
    read call log [Shakir ] We need this for Hub
    read phone status and identity [Shakir ] We need this to show the indicators of connection strength

    Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] We have a backup your customization which requires USB access.
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] We need write permission to store customizations. Other option is to store in cloud

    Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] Explain before
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] Explained before

    Camera
    take pictures and videos [Shakir ] We need to to trigger camera and the flash light

    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections [Shakir ] To turn on and off WIFI

    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity [Shakir ] We need to get the SIM status to show "SIM not detected"

    Other
    choose widgets [Shakir ] For widgets
    modify battery statistics [Shakir ] The battery icon is based on this
    modify secure system settings [Shakir ] We write things to system like Hotspot enable /disable
    view network connections [Shakir ] WIFI permissions to get your SSID and show it to the user
    pair with Bluetooth devices [Shakir ] We trigger the pair once bluetooth is turn on
    access Bluetooth settings
    change network connectivity
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi [Shakir ] for WIFI
    full network access [Shakir ] Not sure about this, but will check
    change your audio settings [Shakir ] We may not need this, as we don't have a volume control now
    draw over other apps [Shakir ] To tap into latest Android features
    modify system settings
    set an alarm [Shakir ] This i can check. I believe we use it for clock

    ---Shakir
    01-20-18 12:43 AM
  13. satch67's Avatar
    I am one of those who thinks my Z30 is the absolutely perfect phone (business owner) EXCEPT for the fact that it has finally gotten to the point where the lack of apps is causing pain. Have been dragging my feet on move to Android (Keyone or other) for over a year because I do not want to give up BB10 productivity. This new launcher is a dream come true assuming it survives and all the kinks get worked out, as now i can see a path to having my "blackberry" with access to all the Android apps.
    01-20-18 11:59 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I am one of those who thinks my Z30 is the absolutely perfect phone (business owner) EXCEPT for the fact that it has finally gotten to the point where the lack of apps is causing pain. Have been dragging my feet on move to Android (Keyone or other) for over a year because I do not want to give up BB10 productivity. This new launcher is a dream come true assuming it survives and all the kinks get worked out, as now i can see a path to having my "blackberry" with access to all the Android apps.
    If you prefer the Z30 slab factor, skip the KEYone and get the Motion.
    01-20-18 12:10 PM
  15. satch67's Avatar
    Always had PKB before Z30, would love to go back. Until CDMA available for Verizon, not really an option for me. Have not studied it much, but believe Motion is also larger than a Z30, which is not my style.
    01-20-18 12:21 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Adding to questions/issues about this new launcher:


    Why does it need that wide range of Permissions. Sorry, but I'm more and more reluctant to grant such a wide range of permissions:

    Identity
    find accounts on the device

    Contacts
    find accounts on the device
    read your contacts

    Location
    approximate location (network-based)
    precise location (GPS and network-based)

    SMS
    read your text messages (SMS or MMS)
    receive text messages (SMS)

    Phone
    directly call phone numbers
    modify phone state
    read call log
    read phone status and identity

    Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Camera
    take pictures and videos

    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections

    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity

    Other
    choose widgets
    modify battery statistics
    modify secure system settings
    view network connections
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    access Bluetooth settings
    change network connectivity
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
    full network access
    change your audio settings
    draw over other apps
    modify system settings
    set an alarm
    My policy is not to.install any app that I don't absolutely need and only give it the permissions that I absolutely want to grant. Finally. I monitor my apps to make sure they don't do anything they shouldn't. (Thank you DTEK!)

    I quickly delete any app that doesn't give me 100% confidence.

    How extreme is this? I don't know, but, for example, my browsers aren't allowed to know my location unless I allow that permission for a single session.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    FF22 likes this.
    01-20-18 03:08 PM
  17. Emaderton3's Avatar
    That's because he made his own hub instead of the widget.
    It is a full Hub and not the widget? Really?
    01-20-18 03:19 PM
  18. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    It is a full Hub and not the widget? Really?
    They changed it and built a new hub. Try it out!
    01-20-18 03:23 PM
  19. Emaderton3's Avatar
    They changed it and built a new hub. Try it out!
    So you setup your email through their Hub? And provide them your info?
    01-20-18 03:30 PM
  20. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    So you setup your email through their Hub? And provide them your info?
    No it pulls the emails and notifications from the system. It's more so a notification center than a typical hub I guess.
    01-20-18 03:34 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    @FF22, here is why we ask for these (inline explanation).

    Identity
    find accounts on the device - [Shakir]. We need this to find whom to request the payment for

    Contacts
    find accounts on the device [Shakir ] To translate your SMS phone numbers to human readable contact name]
    read your contacts [Shakir ] Need to query the contacts database so we can show you who you got messages from

    Location
    approximate location (network-based) [Shakir ] Most phones won't turn on WIFI, without this option. We need this for Android 6.0 and above i believe
    precise location (GPS and network-based)

    SMS
    read your text messages (SMS or MMS) [Shakir ] We need to show messages in Hub
    receive text messages (SMS)

    Phone
    directly call phone numbers [Shakir ] We have call permission for hub. You can directly initiate a phone call (Yet to be implemented)
    modify phone state [Shakir ] This is broad, one of the things we modify is, Airplane mode
    read call log [Shakir ] We need this for Hub
    read phone status and identity [Shakir ] We need this to show the indicators of connection strength

    Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] We have a backup your customization which requires USB access.
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] We need write permission to store customizations. Other option is to store in cloud

    Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] Explain before
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage [Shakir ] Explained before

    Camera
    take pictures and videos [Shakir ] We need to to trigger camera and the flash light

    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections [Shakir ] To turn on and off WIFI

    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity [Shakir ] We need to get the SIM status to show "SIM not detected"

    Other
    choose widgets [Shakir ] For widgets
    modify battery statistics [Shakir ] The battery icon is based on this
    modify secure system settings [Shakir ] We write things to system like Hotspot enable /disable
    view network connections [Shakir ] WIFI permissions to get your SSID and show it to the user
    pair with Bluetooth devices [Shakir ] We trigger the pair once bluetooth is turn on
    access Bluetooth settings
    change network connectivity
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi [Shakir ] for WIFI
    full network access [Shakir ] Not sure about this, but will check
    change your audio settings [Shakir ] We may not need this, as we don't have a volume control now
    draw over other apps [Shakir ] To tap into latest Android features
    modify system settings
    set an alarm [Shakir ] This i can check. I believe we use it for clock

    ---Shakir
    Great response. Thanks for sharing the info. As someone who advises organizations on digital privacy and cybersecurity, it's difficult to come up with a policy that balances risks and benefits with mobile apps and permissions. This is especially difficult with small dev teams that are widely distributed geographically.

    In the end, we usually err on the side of caution, which means we don't generally approve apps from small companies. That of course means we lose out on lots of great products from talented devs.

    Your communication on these forums is a great example of that!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-20-18 03:44 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    But they are improving the App Suite. There are updates twice a month. The point is if there's any value in trying to appease former BB10 users.
    I don't think it makes sense to try to copy BB10, but I would like them to keep the same use cases that led to the BB10 Hub on their minds as they develop the Android Hub+ Suite.

    I find the interface in the Android Hub to be really cluttered and frustrating, compared to BB10, and the lack of integration for third party apps like Slack turns the Hub into little more than another notification tray.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-20-18 03:49 PM
  23. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    For me, the actual Hub looks like it was launched a few months ago, like it still needs refinement. But... it has been available since 2015.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    01-20-18 03:57 PM
  24. FF22's Avatar
    My policy is not to.install any app that I don't absolutely need and only give it the permissions that I absolutely want to grant. Finally. I monitor my apps to make sure they don't do anything they shouldn't. (Thank you DTEK!)

    I quickly delete any app that doesn't give me 100% confidence.

    How extreme is this? I don't know, but, for example, my browsers aren't allowed to know my location unless I allow that permission for a single session.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Those are the tradeoffs we have to consider.
    01-20-18 04:48 PM
  25. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Adding to questions/issues about this new launcher:


    Why does it need that wide range of Permissions. Sorry, but I'm more and more reluctant to grant such a wide range of permissions:

    Identity
    find accounts on the device

    Contacts
    find accounts on the device
    read your contacts

    Location
    approximate location (network-based)
    precise location (GPS and network-based)

    SMS
    read your text messages (SMS or MMS)
    receive text messages (SMS)

    Phone
    directly call phone numbers
    modify phone state
    read call log
    read phone status and identity

    Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

    Camera
    take pictures and videos

    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections

    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity

    Other
    choose widgets
    modify battery statistics
    modify secure system settings
    view network connections
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    access Bluetooth settings
    change network connectivity
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
    full network access
    change your audio settings
    draw over other apps
    modify system settings
    set an alarm
    (edit) I see there were a 1000 replies to this
    01-20-18 08:38 PM
101 12345

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