05-05-17 07:15 AM
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  1. iUser's Avatar
    Some people only see CPU, RAM and storage and declare it's exactly the same phone.

    The Moto Z Play is a more comparable comparison, as it does have the memory slot expandable to 2TB, but it's also $400 USD (on sale) and typically $450 USD, which puts it closer in price to the KEYone. We've seen many times that add-on keyboards (Kickstarter for the Moto Z Play, if it happens, and Typo for iPhone's) are priced around $100 USD (a price people are wiling to pay), which makes $550 USD for the KEYone pretty reasonable, even if you discount BlackBerry's software suite and security measures.
    Just to make it clear: Moto Z Play WAS $399 and KEYone WILL BE $549. Add-on things are expensive just because they offer options. With such add-on keyboard you will have the option to use 5.5" display or less display with keyboard (I do not really know how the add-on looks, imagined one like from Samsung).

    Of course there is a reason "Well KEYone is just a niche product, not for everyone". If so, why should we compare it to Moto Z Play? I believe Moto/Lenovo wants that everyone will buy a Z Play, if you ask them.
    03-27-17 04:16 PM
  2. cbvinh's Avatar
    He meant KEYone for 600€ won't be bought by many.
    Ah true. Upon re-reading, I get what he meant. Of course, we already know the KEYone won't be bought by "many" because physical keyboards aren't in high demand these days. People buy what they desire and even if the KEYone were priced like the Moto Z Play or Moto G5, people who want a big screen still won't care. Even if it was priced cheaper, big screen people still won't care.
    03-27-17 05:10 PM
  3. cbvinh's Avatar
    Just to make it clear: Moto Z Play WAS $399 and KEYone WILL BE $549. Add-on things are expensive just because they offer options. With such add-on keyboard you will have the option to use 5.5" display or less display with keyboard (I do not really know how the add-on looks, imagined one like from Samsung).

    Of course there is a reason "Well KEYone is just a niche product, not for everyone". If so, why should we compare it to Moto Z Play? I believe Moto/Lenovo wants that everyone will buy a Z Play, if you ask them.
    Right, the Moto Z Play WAS $399 USD on sale. It's currently back to $449 USD. The KEYone WILL BE $549 USD. People who think the Moto Z Play is overpriced now will wait for the price to drop again... or maybe they'll mount a boycott campaign to teach Lenovo a lesson. Who knows.

    The add-on keyboard, at least for the Moto Z Play Kickstarter project, doubles the thickness of the Z Play, requires separate charging and blocks the camera when the keyboard is closed. Maybe those things are okay compromises for some people?

    TCL/BlackBerry Mobile would want everyone to buy a KEYone, but at least they're being realistic. The current market is not physical keyboard-centric. TCL/BlackBerry Mobile is not going to produce the KEYone in volumes such that the price could be reduced to the same price point as the Moto Z Play and then end up sitting on tons of unsold inventory.

    We definitely shouldn't be comparing the Moto Z Play to the KEYone, as they're different products for different people. Some people still can't seem to grasp that. They see CPU, RAM and storage and it's the same product... and we're back to price comparisons again, as if it's the exact same product.
    03-27-17 05:28 PM
  4. yessuz's Avatar
    Right, the Moto Z Play WAS $399 USD on sale. It's currently back to $449 USD. The KEYone WILL BE $549 USD. People who think the Moto Z Play is overpriced now will wait for the price to drop again... or maybe they'll mount a boycott campaign to teach Lenovo a lesson. Who knows.

    The add-on keyboard, at least for the Moto Z Play Kickstarter project, doubles the thickness of the Z Play, requires separate charging and blocks the camera when the keyboard is closed. Maybe those things are okay compromises for some people?

    TCL/BlackBerry Mobile would want everyone to buy a KEYone, but at least they're being realistic. The current market is not physical keyboard-centric. TCL/BlackBerry Mobile is not going to produce the KEYone in volumes such that the price could be reduced to the same price point as the Moto Z Play and then end up sitting on tons of unsold inventory.

    We definitely shouldn't be comparing the Moto Z Play to the KEYone, as they're different products for different people. Some people still can't seem to grasp that. They see CPU, RAM and storage and it's the same product... and we're back to price comparisons again, as if it's the exact same product.
    because since android - only hardware IS the differentiator.
    all what people see - is THE SAME CPU, RAM and STORAGE.

    this is android world now.
    03-27-17 06:10 PM
  5. cbvinh's Avatar
    because since android - only hardware IS the differentiator.
    all what people see - is THE SAME CPU, RAM and STORAGE.

    this is android world now.
    What's the point of Lenovo producing the Moto Z Play and Moto G5?
    03-27-17 06:26 PM
  6. yessuz's Avatar
    What's the point of Lenovo producing the Moto Z Play and Moto G5?
    Do I look like lenovo representative?

    Btw moto has more ram, no expandable memory. No?

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-17 06:28 PM
  7. cbvinh's Avatar
    Do I look like lenovo representative?

    Btw moto has more ram, no expandable memory. No?
    Moto Z Play 625/3GB/32GB $449, expandable storage to 2TB
    Moto G5+ 625/2GB/32GB $229
    Moto G5+ 625/4GB/64GB $299

    Is the Z Play just completely overpriced? $150 for expandable storage, but lose 1GB RAM and 32GB storage. Are there other features on the Z Play that make it more appealing than the Moto G+ 4GB/64GB? Maybe the Z Play will just go away.
    mister2d likes this.
    03-27-17 07:09 PM
  8. yessuz's Avatar
    Moto g is next after entry level E model.
    G has plastic body, while z is metal, etc.

    Need to look at gsm arena for details. Do not have much time for that though

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-17 01:02 AM
  9. deltact's Avatar
    I agree with most of what you stated.. I believe it's mainly targeted at business types who were the mainstay of past PBK devices. People who send a lot of email or type a lot on the phone are prime targets for this device. Mainly professional types but plenty of consumers as well.

    It's not really intended in my opinion for the masses.. It's not going to be great at gaming and the odd screen size will more than likely cause some issues for the media consumption crowd. I wonder how it will handle youtube and the like? Will it be like the Passport and have the resizing options?
    So I checked and it seems that I can get any phone worth up to CAD800 for free every couple of years. About 10-15% here use BlackBerrys, almost all the Classic, with one fellow using a $350 Leap. I assume they would all switch to the KEYone if there are no other pkb options. If half of the iPhone users switch to the KEYone (many switched because of the app gap but look at my pkb with nostalgia), that makes 60-65% of the corporate users here, which would be 400-450 nationally, which is not terrible. Multiply this by others in our field, by other corporate industries, and by several countries globally, I don't think it is a stretch to think that TCL could sell plenty of phones to users who are not spec conscious and who are not excessively hung up on price.

    The bigger question is not if TCL can sell a hundred thousand units to corporate users, it is more a question of how many hundreds of thousands. The error in making that calculations would be large.

    Posted via CB10 on my Passport
    03-29-17 09:43 PM
  10. murphy_thom's Avatar
    You're picking at straws. We're not comparing G5 to G5. Fact is that the G5 is a better phone for nearly 1/2 the price. Keyboard doesn't justify extra $250 USD. Heck, you can buy two G5s for one KeyOne.
    In your opinion the G5 might be a better phone. I'll reserve my judgment until the KEYone is released.

    Posted via CB10
    03-29-17 09:57 PM
  11. krazyatom's Avatar
    It looks like Moto G5 camera is pretty good. Keyone better step up their game!
    03-29-17 10:03 PM
  12. Skillow's Avatar
    I'll make it clear first, I am buying the KeyOne, next to the Holidays when they make a 40% sale or something.

    I bought most of my BB's like this, and let's face it, in a couple of months the prices will drop and the only nice thing about this phone is the keyboard. It is expensive right now and no, I don't think it is worth it, I prefer cleaning up my Passport or Priv instead of buying this in the next weeks. The Priv is going for 350 at the BB store right now, great quality and better specs. And the glorious keyboard. At B&H today you get a DTEK60 for 470.

    Today I have a DTEK60, it's a good and fast phone, it is cheap and great build quality and specs, would even dare say it is a flagship with mid-range price.
    anon(9175377) likes this.
    03-30-17 12:25 AM
  13. miramiralook's Avatar
    KEYone is a proof of concept phone for the Android ecosystem. IF this phone steals any market-share away from the big guys (eg. Samsung)... next year we'll see 3 Galaxy S9 variants (not 2), the 3rd will have a PKB.

    That might be part of the strategy too, if they priced it too low it would sell like crazy and all the big guys will mimic their strategy. Look at Motorola and the original Moto G. First of it's kind in regards to build, specs, and price... became their best selling smartphone ever. Shortly after we started seeing similar "affordable" phones that had great designs Sony Xperia M and E, Asus Zenfone, Blu, Huawei, etc.

    IMO... maybe (mostly likely) I'm wrong and they priced it at the most profitable-point.
    03-30-17 01:36 PM
  14. Trouveur's Avatar
    I'll make it clear first, I am buying the KeyOne, next to the Holidays when they make a 40% sale or something.

    I bought most of my BB's like this, and let's face it, in a couple of months the prices will drop and the only nice thing about this phone is the keyboard. It is expensive right now and no, I don't think it is worth it, I prefer cleaning up my Passport or Priv instead of buying this in the next weeks. The Priv is going for 350 at the BB store right now, great quality and better specs. And the glorious keyboard. At B&H today you get a DTEK60 for 470.

    Today I have a DTEK60, it's a good and fast phone, it is cheap and great build quality and specs, would even dare say it is a flagship with mid-range price.
    KEYone have better specs than Priv : better CPU, better front and rear cameras...


    Posted via CB10
    04-01-17 12:55 PM
  15. mad_mdx's Avatar
    In your opinion the G5 might be a better phone. I'll reserve my judgment until the KEYone is released.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually the keyone is a better phone, objectively. It has better specs everywhere except for the 4gb ram version.

    I wrote this on another post:

    But a few things that can explain the price difference would be gorilla glass 4 vs 3, the camera sensor being the same as the pixel, the front camera is different too, more advanced lte on the keyone (cat 9 vs 6), USB C 3.1 vs micro usb, the bigger battery and of course the keyboard with capacitive touch<br />
    <br />
    Individually those might not all be worth the extra 300$, but put together into a premium device they do have some value. There's also the BlackBerry android software but that's more of a preference.<br />
    <br />
    BTW I used this page to compare the two devices. http://m.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?i...&idPhone2=8453
    04-01-17 01:35 PM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There are people who would never purchase a PKB at any price and those who would pay $1000. The KEYone probably hits the lowest they can go and still make a profit for a low volume phone.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-17 09:48 AM
  17. chain13's Avatar
    Over 500USD for Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB is overpriced.
    In Indonesia, it will be over 700USD on tax.
    04-30-17 04:12 AM
  18. Moon_Man's Avatar
    yeah, maybe for a smartphone with same specs but made out of cheap plastic and a bad camera. But here you have premium build quality, a physical keyboard, BB Security and a nice front and rear cam. And also android 7.1.1 out of the box

    Sent from my  BlackBerry Passport™
    murphy_thom likes this.
    04-30-17 06:49 AM
  19. murphy_thom's Avatar
    Over 500USD for Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB is overpriced.
    In Indonesia, it will be over 700USD on tax.
    That's an issue with your government and taxes.

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-17 06:53 AM
  20. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Over 500USD for Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB is overpriced.
    And if I bolt that Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB in to a Porsche, and sell it to you for $500? Is it still overpriced?

    You can look at ANY individual specification and declare Part A to be "better" than Part B simply because it has some higher number on some random measurement scale. That doesn't mean that System A, which includes Part A, is better than Part B for any given set of tasks.
    04-30-17 06:54 AM
  21. BBEIGHT's Avatar
    I think the media have been pushing the 'Blackberry in trouble' line for a number of years now and people therefore expected any new phone, regardless of specs, premium materials, ability to fetch you a coffee etc etc would be priced at mid-range level.

    Given that iPhones are around £500 and the market leader I guess there is an argument for a lower-priced KEYone that would tempt people away from Apple.

    Equally though, maybe there's enough demand out there for a PKB to justify the higher price.

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-17 06:55 AM
  22. murphy_thom's Avatar
    Over 500USD for Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB is overpriced.
    In Indonesia, it will be over 700USD on tax.
    You can't buy the compete package for $500/$550 USD in the US. The mass market doesn't care about specs but instead does a phone have a good camera access to apps to post selfies.

    The KEYone is a niche product for the niche buyer (1%) that still want a PKB. Specs mean little if the tech is optimized to to operate efficiently and has more functions to make users more productive.

    The conversation about pricing is ridiculous when Samsung and Apple have model pushing 1,000 US. If you feel it is priced to high go buy a low grade slab or the Priv of off Ebay for less than $300

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-17 07:02 AM
  23. chain13's Avatar
    That's an issue with your government and taxes.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, that's what keeping me or other indonesian from buying blackberry nowadays. If only the base price could be more reasonable.
    04-30-17 09:37 PM
  24. chain13's Avatar
    And if I bolt that Snapdragon 625/3GB/32GB in to a Porsche, and sell it to you for $500? Is it still overpriced?

    You can look at ANY individual specification and declare Part A to be "better" than Part B simply because it has some higher number on some random measurement scale. That doesn't mean that System A, which includes Part A, is better than Part B for any given set of tasks.
    It is. Porsche design, special edition etc etc are just marketing ways to sell same device with higher price.

    What set of tasks? Oh don't say typing.
    Last edited by chain13; 05-01-17 at 01:06 AM.
    04-30-17 09:41 PM
  25. chain13's Avatar
    You can't buy the compete package for $500/$550 USD in the US. The mass market doesn't care about specs but instead does a phone have a good camera access to apps to post selfies.

    The KEYone is a niche product for the niche buyer (1%) that still want a PKB. Specs mean little if the tech is optimized to to operate efficiently and has more functions to make users more productive.

    The conversation about pricing is ridiculous when Samsung and Apple have model pushing 1,000 US. If you feel it is priced to high go buy a low grade slab or the Priv of off Ebay for less than $300

    Posted via CB10
    It does care, good camera is a bonus. What make people buy a (android) phone are its specs and reasonable price. Good spec means better performance to handle tasks you're working on.

    Samsung and apple has good aftersales support, quality products, living ecosystems and services, they also do advertising, so I'm not wondering why their products are a bit higher price. Blackberry don't but always price their devices like they're premium.
    04-30-17 09:46 PM
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