[cbvinh]

Give me a break with the keyboard, the cost of it is marginal, screen is smaller, so less cost on this part, and have you already open a blackberry ? I open I guess more than 500 since blackberry 8700 and it is very cheap cost.

I didn't say the keyboard was expensive to make. I'm saying that the keyboard isn't an option *at all* with the companies you cite. Okay, you could use that stupid looking keyboard cover on the Samsung, but really, is it something you'd settle for as a flagship?

Xiaomi Mi 6 coming soon with SD835 for 289$ with 4gb ram and 32gb, TCL is a chinese company like xiaomi, but TCL is 7 times bigger so stop comparing with flagship of samsung and apple and LG and google, at 549$ USD, K1 will never sell to consumers and companies have already switched to other secured solutions

Why isn't Xiaomi bigger than Samsung, Apple, LG, Google or even TCL? They have the better product, right?

Few people argue it is way cheaper than iPhone 7 and Galaxy 7, but you have mid range specs and the highest price for this category
If you compare with other Chinese manufacturers like TCL, you see they are making a mistake in marketing.

As I said a few times, k1 seems a good phone but marketing and price are a disaster as no sales team and overpriced compared to all phones available in 2017, we are not in 2009 anymore with 10 different models, more than 100s models to choose from for way cheaper

Unfortunately there's a choice paradox you're not considering. There were a ton of computer operating systems. People settled upon mainly two. There were a bunch of mobile ecosystems. People settled upon mainly two. There are a bunch of mobile phone brands, yet Samsung and Apple dominate. Yeah, choice is out there, but that does not mean people will take advantage of it.

As for marketing, we haven't seen it yet and there's no point until the KEYone is available and in stores. As for pricing, it's a lot easier to drop the price than raise it.

[yessuz]

So, talking about overprices KEYone

Xiaomi Redmi Note 4X - Full phone specifications SD 625, 3 gb ram, 32 rom.
Price - 159$ @ banggood at the moment
Very nice quality full metal body, and if I didn't need PKB - that would be the one to go for.

Let that price for the specs to sink in.

TCL is chinese company as well... right? there are reasons, why it is that expensive. but really?

I mean - yeah, I will buy KEYone. But trying to say that it is not overpriced - as a bit of a stretch guys...

[yessuz]

Why isn't Xiaomi bigger than Samsung, Apple, LG, Google or even TCL? They have the better product, right?

To be honest, I believe Xiaomi is bigger and sells much more phones than TCL

[cbvinh]

To be honest, I believe Xiaomi is bigger and sells much more phones than TCL

Well then, I suppose they'll take over soon, overtaking Samsung, Apple, LG, etc. by supplying cheap flagships. Perhaps this will be the next evolution in the mobile industry where current giants collapse, only to be replaced with new ones.

[yessuz]

Well then, I suppose they'll take over soon, overtaking Samsung, Apple, LG, etc. by supplying cheap flagships. Perhaps this will be the next evolution in the mobile industry where current giants collapse, only to be replaced with new ones.

To be honest, I am sure, in 5 years max, you will forget that you used to pay 1000 USD for flagship device...

Xiaomi is called China's apple. Only thing is, they do not have proper distribution channels now. but that's for now. They are opening one in Poland, and this is going to be the first centre outside China. for there - you'll see.

there's gazillions of various manufacturers, producing quite good quality low priced devices. some better, some worse.

[guygardner73]

My last 5 phones have been over £500 including the Z10. So, whatever. It's what i'm used to paying.

Posted via CB10

[whatsever]

Xiaomi is like those cheap motherboard brands , so they are cheaper then other device, but be sure that brands like moto, Samsung asking 250-300 euro for the same in april,may with also new devices. BlackBerry has there own apps, security, monthly update and keyboard. We can''t compare it with the pixel but 599 euro is to stretch out in price when it will come out in april.

If it was november 2016 they could had ask 599,00 but when it will come out in April . NO .

[anon(1052990)]

Actually it's because the screen is smaller that it costs a bit more. No one else (so far) uses that aspect ratio so TCL has to special order it for just one phone. Scales of economy. You have one model that uses the 4.5" 3:2 1080p screen, there are a bajillion other phones and even some knockoffs using the 5.5" 16:9 1080p screen.

When a company produce more than 100 000 units, all hardware cost are the cheapest possible, look at salary in China... I met some people working at 50 cents by hour in Starbucks there... I guess you know nothing about manufacturing costs and process and China's labor...

[anon(1052990)]

Xiaomi is like those cheap motherboard brands , so they are cheaper then other device, but be sure that brands like moto, Samsung asking 250-300 euro for the same in april,may with also new devices. BlackBerry has there own apps, security, monthly update and keyboard. We can''t compare it with the pixel but 599 euro is to stretch out in price when it will come out in april.

If it was november 2016 they could had ask 599,00 but when it will come out in April . NO .

My 2 sons still use they xiaomi mi 3 and Meizu note1 from 3 4 years ago.... Cheap does not mean bad quality, xiaomi is one of the biggest, but they have even more than 50 other local cheaper brands, 2 more years before industry will come back to fair price for the consumers.

IBM sold its hardware division long time ago...

Samsung Galaxy 7 is now at 349$ at AT&T...

[anon(1052990)]

Flagships cost €800 not €600.


Posted via CB10

It is funny to see when you are not part of the majority how people can use bad comparisons at their advantage...
At their last presentation, it is blackberry which uses the word flagship, with the specs of k1, just compare k1 to same CPU gpu battery, material etc...

I am using an axon 7, it was top specs july 2016, I paid 299$ on special launch price, now back to 399
Sd820 5.5 screen amoled 540ppi, stereo Dolby speakers, 4gb ram 64gb, all metal, fingerprint, 20mpx back, 8mpx front, dual sim, nougat updated, and 3250 mah battery 83% in 30 min, they even add free extra clear tpu case and screen protector!

TCL is full Chinese company so compare it with other full Chinese companies

Manufacturing cost of top flagship iPhone 7, galaxy s7 and pixel are less than 250$ including marketing cost...

So why few people are stubborn to admit k1 is way overpriced? So for 600 euros, they could have give the best specs possible and even when you see the back of k1 they could have come back to removable battery! And lot of new consumers would have been convinced

Unfortunately blackberry is repeating same mistakes since 2009, open your eyes

[ToniCipriani]

When a company produce more than 100 000 units, all hardware cost are the cheapest possible, look at salary in China... I met some people working at 50 cents by hour in Starbucks there... I guess you know nothing about manufacturing costs and process and China's labor...

I don't know... since you are such an expert with costing, maybe you should go and ask BlackBerry why they can justify charging so much for licensing then.

[fschmeck]

While I'm firmly in the "overpriced" camp, I do not think you can simply compare to Xiami or other brands on specs alone. IPod's were over priced too back in the day, and there were tons of competitors offering better and cheaper. It isn't about that. It is about pricing for quality, and at what the market will support.

I do think at 400 US/500 Cdn you'd have a winner here, but to say one can get an off-brand for $200 ignores all the reasons TCL licensed the BlackBerry name.

Posted via CB10

[ToniCipriani]

I do think at 400 US/500 Cdn you'd have a winner here, but to say one can get an off-brand for $200 ignores all the reasons TCL licensed the BlackBerry name.

Posted via CB10

This, right here.

[anon(1052990)]

I don't know... since you are such an expert with costing, maybe you should go and ask BlackBerry why they can justify charging so much for licensing then.

Because they take their chance, it is business, TCL has huge different way of revenues and blackberry is now a software company, they did not think about consumers, they think at this price it can be OK, but how many shareholders of corporations make mistakes? They do not think like normal average person...

When the bold came out, I was dreaming of Android layer to get access of all the apps and blackberry continued to believe and die with their 100% is, you want I talk about the playbook?

[fschmeck]

you want I talk about the playbook?

Playbook is whole other thing. It's a bit off topic, but I have sat through enough phone calls and presentations to see at least some of what lead to that failure, at least in the consumer space. It isn't quite the same as where things are today though...



Posted via CB10

[cbvinh]

It is funny to see when you are not part of the majority how people can use bad comparisons at their advantage...
At their last presentation, it is blackberry which uses the word flagship, with the specs of k1, just compare k1 to same CPU gpu battery, material etc...

I am using an axon 7, it was top specs july 2016, I paid 299$ on special launch price, now back to 399
Sd820 5.5 screen amoled 540ppi, stereo Dolby speakers, 4gb ram 64gb, all metal, fingerprint, 20mpx back, 8mpx front, dual sim, nougat updated, and 3250 mah battery 83% in 30 min, they even add free extra clear tpu case and screen protector!

TCL is full Chinese company so compare it with other full Chinese companies

Manufacturing cost of top flagship iPhone 7, galaxy s7 and pixel are less than 250$ including marketing cost...

So why few people are stubborn to admit k1 is way overpriced? So for 600 euros, they could have give the best specs possible and even when you see the back of k1 they could have come back to removable battery! And lot of new consumers would have been convinced

Unfortunately blackberry is repeating same mistakes since 2009, open your eyes

Why aren't you over at the Axon forums congratulating everyone on what a great deal they got? What a party you could be having, instead of mulling on CrackBerry and complaining.

Until one of those Chinese manufacturers put out a physical keyboard phone like the KEYone, the KEYone is it. If someone wants a physical keyboard, there isn't a cheaper device. It's going to come down to a value judgement. For some, iOS is worth the extra cost over getting a cheap flagship Android. For some, Google phones are the only way to go because of quick updates or as stock Android as they can get.

As much as you say the KEYone is overpriced, you still want one, which means those Chinese flagships don't satisfy 100% what you want/need. At some point, the price will be right for you, just not at launch and there's no reason for you to have it at launch.

[krazyatom]

I wasn't aware Apple had ever delivered a powerful phone but I will concede that they are expensive. ;-)

Posted with my trusty Z10

Actually, iPhone 7 is currently most powerful phone in the market. We have to compared with snapdragon 835 later this year but for now iPhone A10 chipset is most powerful cpu for smartphone.

[world traveler and former ceo]

To be honest, I am sure, in 5 years max, you will forget that you used to pay 1000 USD for flagship device...

Xiaomi is called China's apple. Only thing is, they do not have proper distribution channels now. but that's for now. They are opening one in Poland, and this is going to be the first centre outside China. for there - you'll see.

there's gazillions of various manufacturers, producing quite good quality low priced devices. some better, some worse.

More reason to not buy Apple and Samsung?.....

KeyOne stands out on its own...

Posted via CB10

[bobshine]

I think you guys have to understand that pricing is not all about how comparable product sells on the market... but how you want to position yourself compared to competitors.

If you position yourself too low, you will be going head on vs those chinese manufacturers and I don't think BB wants that was competitors. If you position yourself to high, then you go head on with the S7 or iPhone 7.

[cbvinh]

I think you guys have to understand that pricing is not all about how comparable product sells on the market... but how you want to position yourself compared to competitors.

If you position yourself too low, you will be going head on vs those chinese manufacturers and I don't think BB wants that was competitors. If you position yourself to high, then you go head on with the S7 or iPhone 7.

Also, TCL is making a play to move upward, where there are better margins. If BlackBerry doesn't deliver the margins, then there's no point in producing the brand. They can stick to Alcatel.

[anon(1052990)]

Why aren't you over at the Axon forums congratulating everyone on what a great deal they got? What a party you could be having, instead of mulling on CrackBerry and complaining.

Until one of those Chinese manufacturers put out a physical keyboard phone like the KEYone, the KEYone is it. If someone wants a physical keyboard, there isn't a cheaper device. It's going to come down to a value judgement. For some, iOS is worth the extra cost over getting a cheap flagship Android. For some, Google phones are the only way to go because of quick updates or as stock Android as they can get.

As much as you say the KEYone is overpriced, you still want one, which means those Chinese flagships don't satisfy 100% what you want/need. At some point, the price will be right for you, just not at launch and there's no reason for you to have it at launch.

Last iPhone is the most powerful phone when out last year, you get what you pay for
Top flagship androids with real best specs from chinese 300$ to the roof with pixel and s7
Blackberry brand is dead, so going with mid range specs with flagship prices, will not bring customers

Even if the keyboard is awesome, it will not bring a plus for customers who are all used to full-screen phones at a much aggressive pricing and people with money, geeks, companies will go for new iPhone, galaxy S, Nokia 8, and note 8 will come back big for business people after the fiasco of last year

K1 is already dead before available!

[BB-JAM215]

...
K1 is already dead before available!

But when it is available, everyone who buys one will get a live one.

[cbvinh]

Last iPhone is the most powerful phone when out last year, you get what you pay for

You get what you pay for. Exactly. If you want a quality physical keyboard, you get a KEYone. Apple isn't going to get you that. Samsung isn't going to get you that. Axon isn't going to get you that.

Top flagship androids with real best specs from chinese 300$ to the roof with pixel and s7

^ This sentence makes no sense.

Blackberry brand is dead, so going with mid range specs with flagship prices, will not bring customers

As pointed out, the pricing is still within the mid-range, not the high-end.

Even if the keyboard is awesome, it will not bring a plus for customers who are all used to full-screen phones at a much aggressive pricing and people with money, geeks, companies will go for new iPhone, galaxy S, Nokia 8, and note 8 will come back big for business people after the fiasco of last year

K1 is already dead before available!

All you're saying here is that there's no market for physical keyboard phones. There is one, just not a huge one. You can bet that TCL/BlackBerry Mobile already knows this and isn't trying to compete directly with Apple, Samsung, etc., which they would be if they produced a more expensive KEYone.

[sidtek50]

People just like to complain about something, anything!

If the phone was $459 they'd complain that the screen is not AMOLED or that they can get a One Plus with more RAM or that.............

The same tantrums happen with every phone except Apple and Samsung. For some odd reason those 2 companies can get away with doing and charging whatever they want.

Look at the Google Pixel forums over on AC.. Man o man it makes you shake your head @ the tantrums over Google charging a flagship price for a flagship phone..

Meh... Let the haters hate, the complainers complain and the tantrums happen.. I view those types of posts as comic relief and in a twisted kind of way, enjoy reading them..

Me? I think it's fairly priced and will be ordering day one!

Well $459 would have been a fantastic price. I'd have bought it on day 1 at that price.

$459 = £377. Except, it's not £377, it's £499 on launch. However you work it out and whatever maths you apply, £499 is a huge, huge amount for the spec. It just is. It can't really be argued that it isn't.

If you truly place value in a PKB and regular security updates, then that £499 may be worth it. If you're after a phone based on specs, you can buy a phone for £200 with the same specs (minus the PKB of course).

But yes, it has been absolutely beaten to death in previous threads, with the end result being: PKB phones don't sell to the masses. Then you get people saying "BB isn't seeking the masses!". So why on earth would they make this phone?? To appeal to the niche market? Can BB survive by releasing phones to an ever shrinking niche market?

I'm truly excited to see how KEYOne does in the market. I've made my predictions, and I think it will sell similarly to the Priv (i.e not extremely well, but well enough to keep TCL / BB afloat).

[anon(1052990)]

You get what you pay for. Exactly. If you want a quality physical keyboard, you get a KEYone. Apple isn't going to get you that. Samsung isn't going to get you that. Axon isn't going to get you that.



^ This sentence makes no sense.



As pointed out, the pricing is still within the mid-range, not the high-end.



All you're saying here is that there's no market for physical keyboard phones. There is one, just not a huge one. You can bet that TCL/BlackBerry Mobile already knows this and isn't trying to compete directly with Apple, Samsung, etc., which they would be if they produced a more expensive KEYone.

you are part of the 104 addicts from this forum who will pay the full price, not the average consumer or not the president of a company who needs secure servers and need productive tools.

This thread is about the K1 overpriced, which has been quite well documented to prove this K1 is overpriced, not about the people who love PKB, there are a lot of other threads to satisfy you.

There has been the failure in 2009 with stubbornness to stay with Blackberry OS and full keyboard, then 2012 the fiasco of the playbook, the fiasco in 2012 with the first full only touchscreen phone with the z10 and no android, then the fiasco of the passport in 2014 still no android and awkward design, the priv in 2015 was the light in the sky but blackberry decided to leave the hardware branch, and soon the fiasco of the K1...