03-01-17 09:07 PM
50 12
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  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello Everyone,

    I look at the Mercury/Keyone and can't get over the fact that I'm looking at about 2 rows worth of wasted space that could have been screen real estate.
    I'm sure some people might like the traditional Blackberry Keyboard, but in my view, they've missed a huge opportunity to utilize the Passport style keyboard (or even a variant with a 4th Row Spacebar.

    The Hardware/Software supplement Keyboard is just so useful. I love it.

    But all That said--I can see why some people might like the old-style keyboard, but the physical dedicated Android Keys--that's just pure garbage. Why not simply allow the user to utilize the Programmable keys for those functions in hardware keys if they want them?

    I do like the programmable keys and LOVE the touch-sensitive keyboard allowing for all that functionality, but otherwise, this feels like a lot of wasted space.

    I'll look forward to trying this out, when the price drops.

    KAM
    javelin likes this.
    02-25-17 01:05 PM
  2. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    They would need to spread the device out to accomodate having the keys remain the same size, and then it would merely be an Android Passport.
    02-25-17 02:45 PM
  3. Nathan Conley's Avatar
    They would need to spread the device out to accomodate having the keys remain the same size, and then it would merely be an Android Passport.
    And that isn't possible as android doesn't support a 1:1 screen ratio.
    02-25-17 02:46 PM
  4. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    And that isn't possible as android doesn't support a 1:1 screen ratio.
    Precisely.
    02-25-17 03:04 PM
  5. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello,

    Why would it need to be as wide as a Passport?
    Are you not familiar with how the Passport keyboard works? There are 2 Rows of 10 Keys (exact same as top two rows of Mercury), and the 3rd row with 8 keys and the space bar between two sets of 4.
    Same On-screen functionality with the touch-sensitive track pad keys.

    I'm not sure what's not being understood about what I'm suggesting. But I guess it doesn't matter. They've dumped that innovation, in favor of having a bar of android buttons which of course shouldn't be needed with any sort of decent gesture function, but...well, that's Android.

    KAM
    02-27-17 01:26 PM
  6. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    Hello Everyone,

    I look at the Mercury/Keyone and can't get over the fact that I'm looking at about 2 rows worth of wasted space that could have been screen real estate.
    I'm sure some people might like the traditional Blackberry Keyboard, but in my view, they've missed a huge opportunity to utilize the Passport style keyboard (or even a variant with a 4th Row Spacebar.

    The Hardware/Software supplement Keyboard is just so useful. I love it.

    But all That said--I can see why some people might like the old-style keyboard, but the physical dedicated Android Keys--that's just pure garbage. Why not simply allow the user to utilize the Programmable keys for those functions in hardware keys if they want them?

    I do like the programmable keys and LOVE the touch-sensitive keyboard allowing for all that functionality, but otherwise, this feels like a lot of wasted space.

    I'll look forward to trying this out, when the price drops.

    KAM
    I, like many others, would not get KEYone if it had the Passport style keyboard. The KEYone is the first legitimate successor to the BlackBerry Classic because of the iconic keyboard.

    Posted with my  Classic
    delanyinspiron6400 likes this.
    02-27-17 01:33 PM
  7. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    The Hardware/Software supplement Keyboard is just so useful. I love it.
    You do know that "software supplement keyboard" exists on the Priv right? Just swipe down on the 4-row.

    I much prefer ALT+ for symbols though.
    02-27-17 01:33 PM
  8. KAM1138's Avatar
    I, like many others, would not get KEYone if it had the Passport style keyboard. The KEYone is the first legitimate successor to the BlackBerry Classic because of the iconic keyboard.

    Posted with my  Classic
    Well, I can't speak for anyone other than myself of course, but I prefer the Passport style. I can see how others prefer the older style that was designed at a time when they didn't have touch-screens, but I find it cumbersome. Not BAD, just not as good as the passport.

    KAM
    02-27-17 01:39 PM
  9. KAM1138's Avatar
    You do know that "software supplement keyboard" exists on the Priv right? Just swipe down on the 4-row.

    I much prefer ALT+ for symbols though.
    I didn't know that about the Priv. I have never actually used one (although I do have a DTEK 50). The only store I found that had one didn't even have it powered up.

    But what it sounds like you are saying is that perhaps the on-screen supplement keys is possible to implement on the KeyOne? At least theoretically.
    Of course, with those Android Keys taking up a whole row of space, having to reach over them might make it very awkward.

    Oh well--perhaps a future model could remove those hard Android keys.

    I could work with the more traditional blackberry physical keyboard with the on-screen supplement. But those android keys are a show-stopper I think.

    KAM
    02-27-17 01:44 PM
  10. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    I didn't know that about the Priv. I have never actually used one (although I do have a DTEK 50). The only store I found that had one didn't even have it powered up.

    But what it sounds like you are saying is that perhaps the on-screen supplement keys is possible to implement on the KeyOne? At least theoretically.
    Of course, with those Android Keys taking up a whole row of space, having to reach over them might make it very awkward.

    Oh well--perhaps a future model could remove those hard Android keys.

    I could work with the more traditional blackberry physical keyboard with the on-screen supplement. But those android keys are a show-stopper I think.

    KAM
    The Android soft-keys shouldn't matter if you're using the Passport keyboard with the primary use case: swipe down and pressing the corresponding hard key instead of pressing on screen. That's how the Passport was designed to function, you shouldn't need to reach for it.
    02-27-17 01:57 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    The Android soft-keys shouldn't matter if you're using the Passport keyboard with the primary use case: swipe down and pressing the corresponding hard key instead of pressing on screen. That's how the Passport was designed to function, you shouldn't need to reach for it.
    Actually the 4th Row (glass) keys that show up (depending on context) right above the Passport keyboard is what I'm thinking of. Those are the ones I use most.

    Not saying that the larger one on screen wouldn't be welcome on the KeyOne. I didn't catch that in the launch event video. Is that there?

    Regardless--I'm seeing no benefit of having the hard android keys, especially given the KeyOne touting the ability to program keys.

    Additionally, the first review (hands on really) noted how easy it is to hit the android keys while using the keyboard for scrolling. That's not good.

    KAM
    02-27-17 02:06 PM
  12. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Actually the 4th Row (glass) keys that show up (depending on context) right above the Passport keyboard is what I'm thinking of. Those are the ones I use most.

    Not saying that the larger one on screen wouldn't be welcome on the KeyOne. I didn't catch that in the launch event video. Is that there?

    Regardless--I'm seeing no benefit of having the hard android keys, especially given the KeyOne touting the ability to program keys.

    Additionally, the first review (hands on really) noted how easy it is to hit the android keys while using the keyboard for scrolling. That's not good.

    KAM
    There is a workaround for the last issue: install a glass screen protector. When you scroll you feel a "step" and you'll stop.

    Also, that 4th row also exist on the Priv, but it also appears ABOVE the Android buttons. The PlayStation buttons only disappear if an app signals to be a full screen app, like a video player.

    Sorry, but you'll just have to get used to ALT+ if those buttons bother you so much.
    booker1953 likes this.
    02-27-17 02:15 PM
  13. KAM1138's Avatar
    There is a workaround for the last issue: install a glass screen protector. When you scroll you feel a "step" and you'll stop.

    Also, that 4th row also exist on the Priv, but it also appears ABOVE the Android buttons. The PlayStation buttons only disappear if an app signals to be a full screen app, like a video player.

    Sorry, but you'll just have to get used to ALT+ if those buttons bother you so much.
    Well, there's another solution. I simply won't spend my money on a phone that burns valuable screen real-estate for keys that aren't needed, while creating other difficulties that I have to work around. It is in my view an unforced error. It seems like plenty of phones work just fine with the on-screen android keys. Not sure why this one required the hard keys.

    I do however, appreciate you telling me how the Priv keyboard works. It's possible it would work for me (and wouldn't feel cumbersome)--I'd have to try it out to see.

    KAM
    02-27-17 02:20 PM
  14. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Good luck with that.

    PS: I'm in the camp where I dislike the Passport 3-row, so...
    02-27-17 02:30 PM
  15. KAM1138's Avatar
    Good luck with that.

    PS: I'm in the camp where I dislike the Passport 3-row, so...
    Sure, everyone has their own preferences. As I said--I could take the 4 Row option (although again, screen space), but the Android Keys...is that something you actually like--compared to software ones?

    Do you think those hard android keys are needed on a Phone that specifically features programmable hardware Keys?

    KAM
    03-01-17 09:43 AM
  16. delanyinspiron6400's Avatar
    Regarding the 'physical' Android keys, my guess is that without them, BlackBerry would have to deal with a weird screen aspect ratio, right now its 3:2 and maybe this works better for them!
    I personally favour the 4-row keyboard, wasn't to stoked on the passports keyboard, but it probably would have been nice to have virtual Android controls!
    03-01-17 09:49 AM
  17. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Sure, everyone has their own preferences. As I said--I could take the 4 Row option (although again, screen space), but the Android Keys...is that something you actually like--compared to software ones?

    Do you think those hard android keys are needed on a Phone that specifically features programmable hardware Keys?

    KAM
    I don't hate or like them, that's just how Android works. I need the back key to go back, I need the home screen key to to minimize, and I need the task button to switch apps.

    You have to remember this isn't BB10 anymore. You don't swipe up to minimize.
    03-01-17 09:54 AM
  18. RPCBlackberry's Avatar
    Regarding the 'physical' Android keys, my guess is that without them, BlackBerry would have to deal with a weird screen aspect ratio, right now its 3:2 and maybe this works better for them!
    I personally favour the 4-row keyboard, wasn't to stoked on the passports keyboard, but it probably would have been nice to have virtual Android controls!
    Bingo! You wouldn't have more screen real estate if the android keys were gone, the phone would have simply been shorter so they could keep a usable screen ratio. And while I'm sure you would have preferred that, 80% of people use Android and BlackBerry is trying to make the experience seamless for them, therefore you have the hard Android keys. Using the keyboard for shortcuts is only appealing for older BlackBerry fans, not the current Android users. I converted with the Priv, and now that I've gotten used to Android, it would be weird to not have the android keys available because I'm so used to it.
    zensen likes this.
    03-01-17 10:08 AM
  19. KAM1138's Avatar
    I don't hate or like them, that's just how Android works. I need the back key to go back, I need the home screen key to to minimize, and I need the task button to switch apps.

    You have to remember this isn't BB10 anymore. You don't swipe up to minimize.
    '

    Yeah, I'm painfully aware of that. I'm not trying to say that the functions of the Android Button's aren't needed, but rather to ask whether you prefer hardware vs software buttons.
    It just seems to me that the KeyOne offers (or could) offer a hardware option via the programmable keys.
    03-01-17 10:29 AM
  20. KAM1138's Avatar
    Bingo! You wouldn't have more screen real estate if the android keys were gone, the phone would have simply been shorter so they could keep a usable screen ratio. And while I'm sure you would have preferred that, 80% of people use Android and BlackBerry is trying to make the experience seamless for them, therefore you have the hard Android keys. Using the keyboard for shortcuts is only appealing for older BlackBerry fans, not the current Android users. I converted with the Priv, and now that I've gotten used to Android, it would be weird to not have the android keys available because I'm so used to it.
    Are you sure about that? I heard that this phone is quite narrow--with wider phones being well accepted. So, it seems it could have been somewhat wider (also allowing for slightly bigger keys) and then gaining potentially significantly more vertical space--eliminating the hardware keys, and potentially a 4th row. Maintaining the 3:2 ratio.

    Or perhaps they could have gotten to a 4:3 ratio adding only to height. Is 4:3 used in Android?

    Ah...doesn't matter what could have been. It is what it is now I guess.

    KAM
    03-01-17 10:37 AM
  21. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    '

    Yeah, I'm painfully aware of that. I'm not trying to say that the functions of the Android Button's aren't needed, but rather to ask whether you prefer hardware vs software buttons.
    It just seems to me that the KeyOne offers (or could) offer a hardware option via the programmable keys.
    It doesn't matter, because your argument was the Android bar gets in the way when you try to use the upper portion. That bar is there whether it's software like the Priv, or hardware like the KEYone.

    In the case of the Priv, software makes sense because the bar can fit without losing significant screen estate, and on the KEYone silkscreened makes sense as otherwise you would need a longer non-standard screen or a shorter device while losing screen estate, like delaney explained.
    03-01-17 11:12 AM
  22. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Are you sure about that? I heard that this phone is quite narrow--with wider phones being well accepted. So, it seems it could have been somewhat wider (also allowing for slightly bigger keys) and then gaining potentially significantly more vertical space--eliminating the hardware keys, and potentially a 4th row. Maintaining the 3:2 ratio.

    Or perhaps they could have gotten to a 4:3 ratio adding only to height. Is 4:3 used in Android?

    Ah...doesn't matter what could have been. It is what it is now I guess.

    KAM
    I'd like to see a source for this. I've never heard of "wider is better" outside of Passport owners, and given the Passport was not "well accepted", there's no way that statement is true.

    "Bigger screens is well accepted" is true, but is not the same thing as your statement.
    03-01-17 11:13 AM
  23. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'd like to see a source for this. I've never heard of "wider is better" outside of Passport owners, and given the Passport was not "well accepted", there's no way that statement is true.

    "Bigger screens is well accepted" is true, but is not the same thing as your statement.
    Well, I never said "Wider is Better." Further, are you really saying that you're not aware of there being wider phones?

    KeyOne Width: 2.8"
    Priv: 3.04"
    DTEK50: 2.85"
    DTEK60: 2.97"
    iphone7 Plus: 3.07"

    So, to be very clear--I'm saying that a slightly width for a phone isn't a problem--because millions upon millions of people use wider phones. Not sure why that's a controversial claim.

    KAM
    03-01-17 11:24 AM
  24. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Well, I never said "Wider is Better." Further, are you really saying that you're not aware of there being wider phones?

    KeyOne Width: 2.8"
    Priv: 3.04"
    DTEK50: 2.85"
    DTEK60: 2.97"
    iphone7 Plus: 3.07"

    So, to be very clear--I'm saying that a slightly width for a phone isn't a problem--because millions upon millions of people use wider phones. Not sure why that's a controversial claim.

    KAM
    Yes, the Priv is wider, but I never saw it as an advantage like you make out to be. It's just wider, that's it.
    03-01-17 11:27 AM
  25. KAM1138's Avatar
    It doesn't matter, because your argument was the Android bar gets in the way when you try to use the upper portion. That bar is there whether it's software like the Priv, or hardware like the KEYone.

    In the case of the Priv, software makes sense because the bar can fit without losing significant screen estate, and on the KEYone silkscreened makes sense as otherwise you would need a longer non-standard screen or a shorter device while losing screen estate, like delaney explained.
    How exactly are you losing screen Real-estate by removing hardware keys?

    But the underlying reality is that Android OS is still using dated buttons requiring buttons (either hard or soft) that take up space, and do not take advantage of things like swipes.

    Blackberry has this really nice touch-capable hardware keyboard that's not being fully utilized, because Android is dated. Perhaps you enjoy it, but I see it as lack of innovation. Blackberry already had this issue worked out, and have gone backwards as I see it.

    KAM
    03-01-17 11:33 AM
50 12

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