10-02-17 06:55 AM
56 123
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  1. joker333's Avatar
    I guess this is the real question from a lot of BlackBerry 10 users, and not only. Since so many people ask "What's so special in a device secured by BlackBerry, if it's running android anyway?". And this is a fair question, to which at least I don't have an honest answer I'd believe in.

    All that effort that BlackBerry does to protect us from external "dangers" like DTEK, Privacy Shade, encryption and all that is fine. But I really think google can do it's job to protect all of android smartphones itself. Sure it's better to have these too, but they aren't that critical, in my opinion. So BlackBerry is "helping Google" to protect blackberry-android users from external dangers, that'd be the formula we have right now.

    But since we know "what google does for living", that being data collection and advertising (at least that's what we can know) how is BlackBerry gonna protect us from that?
    Can BlackBerry build a secure ecosystem on top of android? (I think this would be the perfect option)
    To what extent can BlackBerry change android infrastructure in order to obtain the control and at the same time to have all the android functionality work?
    Wmsi, duncan86, BbClassic and 1 others like this.
    09-23-17 08:50 AM
  2. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I guess this is the real question from a lot of BlackBerry 10 users, and not only. Since so many people ask "What's so special in a device secured by BlackBerry, if it's running android anyway?". And this is a fair question, to which at least I don't have an honest answer I'd believe in.

    All that effort that BlackBerry does to protect us from external "dangers" like DTEK, Privacy Shade, encryption and all that is fine. But I really think google can do it's job to protect all of android smartphones itself. Sure it's better to have these too, but they aren't that critical, in my opinion. So BlackBerry is "helping Google" to protect blackberry-android users from external dangers, that'd be the formula we have right now.

    But since we know "what google does for living", that being data collection and advertising (at least that's what we can know) how is BlackBerry gonna protect us from that?
    Can BlackBerry build a secure ecosystem on top of android? (I think this would be the perfect option)
    To what extent can BlackBerry change android infrastructure in order to obtain the control and at the same time to have all the android functionality work?
    This is the tradeoff for using Google services for free. And it's what you agree to in the terms when you use an Android phone. It is your choice whether you use it.

    Posted via CB10
    Deckerp2 and MikeX74 like this.
    09-23-17 08:56 AM
  3. joker333's Avatar
    This is the tradeoff for using Google services for free. And it's what you agree to in the terms when you use an Android phone. It is your choice whether you use it.
    Yeah that's unfortunately the strategy Google uses in every service of theirs. They first build top-notch apps/software and then make you depend on them (gmail, google drive, analytics, translation... and so on.)

    Ok, say we accept all their "terms", we get a gmail to sign in and then we also use a BlackBerry ID to sign into an ecosystem built on top of their interface that wouldn't communicate with their services. How possible would that be? Or if google would spot this, do you think they'd "ban" us?

    Android is build on Java, and we could use this language to secure our ecosystem in any way we'd want (theoretically).
    09-23-17 09:07 AM
  4. bobshine's Avatar
    Is there a way for BB to scramble the data before handing them to google? The idea is not to render the data useless, au contraire, it’s to keep their usefulness while making it impossible to trace it back to the source
    joker333 and Heavens1 like this.
    09-23-17 09:14 AM
  5. Ecm's Avatar
    Google is very clear about their privacy policy and how data is used. https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html

    Google services are integral to a fully functioning Android device. It boils down to the fact that if you can't or won't accept their terms, close all google accounts and go to iOS. Though Apple collects data about you as well...
    09-23-17 09:15 AM
  6. mbirth's Avatar
    Google services are integral to a fully functioning Android device.
    Actually, no. You can use the "Android" part of the phone without handing over your data to Google. Android itself is open-source and doesn't contain any code to secretly send over your data to Google. At most, some anonymous(!) data is collected for the Android team to analyse which features people actually use.

    Only when you connect your phone to a Google account, there are various things you could send to Google. But you get asked for each and every one and whether you accept to send them. And of course you can deny those requests.
    09-23-17 10:43 AM
  7. Ecm's Avatar
    Actually, no. You can use the "Android" part of the phone without handing over your data to Google. Android itself is open-source and doesn't contain any code to secretly send over your data to Google. At most, some anonymous(!) data is collected for the Android team to analyse which features people actually use.

    Only when you connect your phone to a Google account, there are various things you could send to Google. But you get asked for each and every one and whether you accept to send them. And of course you can deny those requests.
    I said "fully functional". We likely just have different opinions on the definition, lol.
    brian4591 and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    09-23-17 10:56 AM
  8. mbirth's Avatar
    I said "fully functional". We likely just have different opinions on the definition, lol.
    It's probably because you confuse Googles ecosystem and Android, the operating system.

    As an operating system, Android IS fully functional without Google's apps. It's just that you don't have the "Google experience" with Google Now, the Assistant, Maps and all the other stuff. But these are all apps and don't have anything to do with the operating system.

    If you don't feel like giving anything to Google like OP said, just don't use Google's apps. It's that easy. No need for BlackBerry to do anything.
    09-23-17 11:01 AM
  9. Ecm's Avatar
    This is getting off the thread topic. Let's just accept we have differing opinions and move on.
    09-23-17 11:07 AM
  10. jfalkingham's Avatar
    Get rid of Google Play Store and services? Sure thing, download your apps from browsers or one off stores! That’ll show ‘em lol
    09-23-17 11:26 AM
  11. mbirth's Avatar
    Get rid of Google Play Store and services? Sure thing, download your apps from browsers or one off stores! That’ll show ‘em lol
    Well, there's Aptoide and F-Droid which are both well-known and sources. And sites like APKMirror also verify the APKs against the original signatures from the Play Store.
    zodmode247 likes this.
    09-23-17 12:20 PM
  12. zodmode247's Avatar
    The main issue here is that your most popular, apps are using more of Google services to even work. You're not going to get the complete "google experience" without accepting all the terms and agreement. But what android gives you is the ability to use a large variety of devices to customized it the way you want it. You want more security? There's options out there. Every popular app you can get in the play store there's a open source alternative for it

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-17 12:35 PM
  13. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    But since we know "what google does for living", that being data collection and advertising (at least that's what we can know) how is BlackBerry gonna protect us from that?
    Can BlackBerry build a secure ecosystem on top of android? (I think this would be the perfect option)
    To what extent can BlackBerry change android infrastructure in order to obtain the control and at the same time to have all the android functionality work?
    This is totally within the user's control. The fact is, that most users willfully give up their privacy to Google and other data mining companies when they sign up for them in the first place. If you use Google Chrome's browser on your PC, have a gmail account, or a facebook account, then you have already opted in on them collecting all of this data. Regardless of what device you are using.

    I, personally, don't see how it is BlackBerry's responsibility to "protect" users when it is out of their own free will that they are choosing to provide access of their information.

    It's the world that we're living in now. Really impossible to share in the use of all of the apps and services available without sacrificing some privacy.
    offroadflow and app_Developer like this.
    09-23-17 01:52 PM
  14. jfalkingham's Avatar
    Well, there's Aptoide and F-Droid which are both well-known and sources. And sites like APKMirror also verify the APKs against the original signatures from the Play Store.
    Right and forget about those play services. Look I get it you can roll your own but modern apps are going to be relying on google’s implementation of services. If managing rogue app sources is your thing have at it. Majority just want it to work oob.
    09-23-17 02:32 PM
  15. joker333's Avatar
    This is totally within the user's control.
    Not quite sure about that. Can't actually uninstall or force stop all google apps.
    I've disable Chrome, for example, and yet it reopens whenever it wants. So I have to continuously click "Forced stop" over and over, once every few days. This has became a routine for me.
    And google play saves all settings I set, except "Do not auto-update all apps". This option turns on every time I reboot my phone. This is ridiculous. I have always to keep in control all these things.
    When have I had to worry about such things when I was using my BB q10?!...
    duncan86 and brian4591 like this.
    09-23-17 05:57 PM
  16. mbirth's Avatar
    I've disable Chrome, for example, and yet it reopens whenever it wants.
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't just pop up without you doing anything. And as with all apps, once it's disabled (Settings --> Apps --> Chrome --> Disable), it can't just enable itself again. So there's clearly something fishy going on with your phone.


    And google play saves all settings I set, except "Do not auto-update all apps". This option turns on every time I reboot my phone.
    Same here. I've just tried it. I've set it to "Do not auto-update apps" and rebooted my phone. After the reboot, it was still set. So yeah, I'd factory reset your phone if I were you.
    offroadflow likes this.
    09-23-17 06:20 PM
  17. joker333's Avatar
    Same here. I've just tried it. I've set it to "Do not auto-update apps" and rebooted my phone. After the reboot, it was still set. So yeah, I'd factory reset your phone if I were you.
    Thanks for double checking that. Unfortunately I've already factory reset it 3 or 4 times :/
    09-23-17 06:36 PM
  18. mbirth's Avatar
    Thanks for double checking that. Unfortunately I've already factory reset it 3 or 4 times :/
    Then probably try an Autoloader to reflash the firmware. Also maybe try to update your Play Store from here: https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/google...le-play-store/ . Or you maybe have some other app in use that interferes here?
    offroadflow likes this.
    09-23-17 07:56 PM
  19. Deckerp2's Avatar
    I'm not a fan! I prefer my own Desktop software
    09-24-17 12:55 PM
  20. Deckerp2's Avatar
    It sickens me I have no more control over mirror imaging backing up my own device on a daily basis. To be able to browse files, pics and folders extracting or deleting unwanted items is over. Sad day for BlackBerry in my book turning all control over to Google
    joker333 likes this.
    09-24-17 12:59 PM
  21. johnsliderbb's Avatar

    I, personally, don't see how it is BlackBerry's responsibility to "protect" users when it is out of their own free will that they are choosing to provide access of their information.
    Well, remember the Priv advert on "most Private" or words like that?

    In that respect its very odd at first start-up you aren't remembered you actually dont't need a gmail account. Neither is data collection option toggled "off" in all setting and apps by default. Nor is there an app "delete all google apps". Actually quite some finding out, effort and time is required to set all switches to off.

    If a company advertises with Privacy, the least it could do is to set all switches on private.

    Guess there will be some openhandset rule ons this. Explanations welcome.

    And I guess others will reiterate its your own choice to buy an android phone. Sure.

    Is K1 having Privacy advertisements as well?

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-17 06:11 PM
  22. Deckerp2's Avatar
    I feel its Blackberry that should monitor what's safe to download on Google play store and what's questionable. Since they merged with Google I feel they should assume some responsibility to protect their clients.
    09-24-17 06:45 PM
  23. mbirth's Avatar
    In that respect its very odd at first start-up you aren't remembered you actually dont't need a gmail account. Neither is data collection option toggled "off" in all setting and apps by default. Nor is there an app "delete all google apps". Actually quite some finding out, effort and time is required to set all switches to off.
    Do you really need a person from BlackBerry holding the magnifying glasses and pointing out the "SKIP" button on the setup screen?

    Also the data collection options are presented to you before they're going live. So you have the chance to switch them off before they get active. The default position is "on" because a lot more users actually use these features and thus want to keep it on.

    And finding all Google apps isn't that hard as they mostly have "Google" in their name. And yes, since it's a completely new system if you're coming from BB10, of course, some research is required. In the same way you can't drive a car when all you know is how to drive a motorcycle.

    (And those switch settings are Android defaults. BB has nothing to do with them. Sure, they *could* patch the Android code to make the switches the other way, but they'd probably lose the license to bundle Google's apps - and thus the Play Store. And we'd all have to wait a bit longer for monthly updates as that would be another change they have to apply to each and every update of the Android system.)
    offroadflow likes this.
    09-24-17 06:49 PM
  24. joker333's Avatar
    Well, remember the Priv advert on "most Private" or words like that?

    In that respect its very odd at first start-up you aren't remembered you actually dont't need a gmail account. Neither is data collection option toggled "off" in all setting and apps by default. Nor is there an app "delete all google apps". Actually quite some finding out, effort and time is required to set all switches to off.

    If a company advertises with Privacy, the least it could do is to set all switches on private.

    Guess there will be some openhandset rule ons this. Explanations welcome.

    And I guess others will reiterate its your own choice to buy an android phone. Sure.

    Is K1 having Privacy advertisements as well?
    I so understand you. I've been saying something similar in a post, somewhere. I don't know about BB LTD, and their thoughts on this controversy, but people here on crackberry are so often "jumping" from one boat to another that I don't get it anymore. If someone says that BB on android isn't secure enough they say "put the aluminum foil on" or "get a BB10 device". But If someone asks in a thread about the benefits of a BlackBerry android over any other android device then one of the "pros" ofc is "security and privacy".

    Things should be called their names and BlackBerry should be advertised for what it is. And in my opinion, at this time BB is adding very little to Privacy and Security on android-powered devices. I'd like to see from BB some real 90 degrees changes on these fields and I'm sure people will be willing to pay even more than $549 per device. But until then, how can we even advertise this brand to our friends as more secure? When they ask why, I'm like well... because I don't have an honest answer I'd believe in, and I wouldn't lie to any of my friends, just to make few bucks to BlackBerry. I did that with BB10 though, my household was full of BB10s and some of my friends.

    If building another private ecosystem on top of android is impossible (against google's terms of use) then how can we talk about privacy here? By the way, maybe BB could work on the Tizen open source OS? A lot of companies are trying to build it up, samsung included. Maybe we should aim that direction? What are your thoughts on this? Cheers!
    elfabio80 and CrackPriv like this.
    09-24-17 07:03 PM
  25. donnation's Avatar
    The simple answer is that BlackBerry isn't interested in protecting your privacy from Google, because they can't. Why do you think that no Google Apps are scanned by DTEK? Its no coincidence that those apps which are accessing your location, contacts, etc. aren't picked up by DTEK because BlackBerry can't stop Google from doing it if they want to use the Android OS.
    09-24-17 07:07 PM
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