05-14-19 10:25 PM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar
    A phone with a crappy camera is not acceptable at the $400 level.
    Unless it has a PKB
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    05-11-19 08:55 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    This article is one of many similar:

    https://medium.com/@techoutofthebox/...r-d788f2b2b942

    The point is for only $400 you are getting a phone with a good camera. Apple / Samsung may be forced to respond.
    Galaxy A8+ ?

    $399

    https://m.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?...&idPhone2=9408
    05-11-19 10:39 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Google needed to stem the losses.

    A phone with a crappy camera is not acceptable at the $400 level.
    "Good" vs. "Crappy" is just too subjective to me. My KEYone camera is "excellent" as far as I'm concerned. But that's just another subjective term.

    What's not acceptable to you might not matter to me, and neither of us speak for anyone but ourselves.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    misterabrasive likes this.
    05-12-19 12:26 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    "Good" vs. "Crappy" is just too subjective to me. My KEYone camera is "excellent" as far as I'm concerned. But that's just another subjective term.

    What's not acceptable to you might not matter to me, and neither of us speak for anyone but ourselves.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    There are all sorts of tests that can be brought to bear to determine how good a camera is. Not unlike battery tests or performance tests. Taking a good picture in low light is not subjective. Then too there are camera features that only the most expensive phones have. The market is smart enough to recognize a phone that has a better camera.

    They tech community are referring to the 3a as a “flagship lite”. It has a really good camera and screen but no wireless charging. At $400 it is a bargain.

    The LE only exists in the market because of the PKB . Few would buy a slab version of the LE if it were made. The problem being the BlackBerry tax .

    TCL has aspirations of making phones that could compete with a 3a but that will be difficult. First they must not be burden by a tax and secondly they must compete with phone makers who have spent a ton of money on R&D. TCL is partnering with Xiaomi and perhaps they may be able to share with Xiaomi’s knowledge.

    The BlackBerry’s are niche phones whereas Google is appealing to a much larger pool of buyers. It is too bad that BlackBerry has no competition in the PKB market.
    05-12-19 09:23 AM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    There are all sorts of tests that can be brought to bear to determine how good a camera is. Not unlike battery tests or performance tests. Taking a good picture in low light is not subjective. Then too there are camera features that only the most expensive phones have. The market is smart enough to recognize a phone that has a better camera.

    They tech community are referring to the 3a as a “flagship lite”. It has a really good camera and screen but no wireless charging. At $400 it is a bargain.

    The LE only exists in the market because of the PKB . Few would buy a slab version of the LE if it were made. The problem being the BlackBerry tax .

    TCL has aspirations of making phones that could compete with a 3a but that will be difficult. First they must not be burden by a tax and secondly they must compete with phone makers who have spent a ton of money on R&D. TCL is partnering with Xiaomi and perhaps they may be able to share with Xiaomi’s knowledge.

    The BlackBerry’s are niche phones whereas Google is appealing to a much larger pool of buyers. It is too bad that BlackBerry has no competition in the PKB market.
    LOL, if there's any competition in the PKB space, the category would die completely.
    05-12-19 09:27 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There are all sorts of tests that can be brought to bear to determine how good a camera is. Not unlike battery tests or performance tests. Taking a good picture in low light is not subjective. Then too there are camera features that only the most expensive phones have. The market is smart enough to recognize a phone that has a better camera.

    They tech community are referring to the 3a as a “flagship lite”. It has a really good camera and screen but no wireless charging. At $400 it is a bargain.

    The LE only exists in the market because of the PKB . Few would buy a slab version of the LE if it were made. The problem being the BlackBerry tax .

    TCL has aspirations of making phones that could compete with a 3a but that will be difficult. First they must not be burden by a tax and secondly they must compete with phone makers who have spent a ton of money on R&D. TCL is partnering with Xiaomi and perhaps they may be able to share with Xiaomi’s knowledge.

    The BlackBerry’s are niche phones whereas Google is appealing to a much larger pool of buyers. It is too bad that BlackBerry has no competition in the PKB market.
    I wouldn't have a problem with comparing objective measurements of camera performance. I'm just tried of the black/white thinking where the BlackBerry cameras are "horrible" and the other OEMs are "perfect.".

    I have a decent eye, and I don't see dramatic differences between phones for most photos taken in most conditions. My opinion is that we're talking about the difference between a 7 and a 9 on a ten point scale most of the time.
    the_boon likes this.
    05-12-19 09:49 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    LOL, if there's any competition in the PKB space, the category would die completely.
    I get what you are saying. The niche being too small. Both would fail.

    The LE is no 3a but it is still a decent enough phone that happens to have a PKB. If I was using a Passport or Classic , I would not hesitate.

    Hopefully, TCL with update their phones at least once before the licence agreements are over.
    05-12-19 09:54 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I get what you are saying. The niche being too small. Both would fail.

    The LE is no 3a but it is still a decent enough phone that happens to have a PKB. If I was using a Passport or Classic , I would not hesitate.

    Hopefully, TCL with update their phones at least once before the licence agreements are over.
    The recent sales figure release with TCL having a decent ranking, suggests if something is probable successful, we could see it from them.
    05-12-19 10:01 AM
  9. misterabrasive's Avatar
    That's the way it should be. You can compare all the technical aspects of a dozen different phone cameras and come to whatever conclusions that the so called experts tell you is the best. But in the end, as long as what you see with your own eyes is acceptable to you, that's all that matters.
    I wouldn't have a problem with comparing objective measurements of camera performance. I'm just tried of the black/white thinking where the BlackBerry cameras are "horrible" and the other OEMs are "perfect.".

    I have a decent eye, and I don't see dramatic differences between phones for most photos taken in most conditions. My opinion is that we're talking about the difference between a 7 and a 9 on a ten point scale most of the time.
    05-12-19 11:41 AM
  10. Avenzuno's Avatar
    Google saw a business opportunity at the $400 pricepoint, read what buyers' priorities are, and decided to build the Pixel 3a and 3a XL around the wonderful Sony camera. Google wants to sell as many phones as they can, thereby getting more users hooked into the Google ecosystem. Other Android OEMs and Apple are now forced to compete. It's great for consumers to prioritize their wants and choose accordingly.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    05-12-19 11:46 AM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I wouldn't have a problem with comparing objective measurements of camera performance. I'm just tried of the black/white thinking where the BlackBerry cameras are "horrible" and the other OEMs are "perfect.".

    I have a decent eye, and I don't see dramatic differences between phones for most photos taken in most conditions. My opinion is that we're talking about the difference between a 7 and a 9 on a ten point scale most of the time.
    On a nice day with good light conditions perhaps the BlackBerry is acceptable. Good enough for a phone that is purchased just for the PKB. Not good enough for your average consumer who wants low light pictures or portraits or pictures of little kids doing what they do in motion.

    Perhaps became to value a decent camera after a trip to Asia. I had my Z10 and my wife had her iPhone 5. I took a picture with her camera and mine. The picture on my Z10 was unusable but on the iPhone the picture was fine. BlackBerry owners accept camera's that are only adequate because there are no other choices and they value the PKB more.

    As Conite says beggars can not be choosers. On one hand TCL is keeping the brand alive and relevant but on the other hand their phones are handicapped the fees paid by TCL to BlackBerry. They are what they are.

    TCL will need to up their game if they hope to sell $400 all touch phones. Their TV success suggests that they might be able to do that.
    elfabio80 and IceCreamPlz like this.
    05-12-19 11:51 AM
  12. bh7171's Avatar
    That's the way it should be. You can compare all the technical aspects of a dozen different phone cameras and come to whatever conclusions that the so called experts tell you is the best. But in the end, as long as what you see with your own eyes is acceptable to you, that's all that matters.


    One of my favorite watches in regards to phone cameras. The best aspect to me is the blind nature of the test and everyday users choices. Enjoy and share often.
    05-12-19 12:00 PM
  13. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar


    One of my favorite watches in regards to phone cameras. The best aspect to me is the blind nature of the test and everyday users choices. Enjoy and share often.
    I'd like to see that repeated, but with the original photos in full resolution. I'm fairly certain it would have a different outcome.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    05-12-19 02:36 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It is taking pictures in poor conditions that makes the difference. Portraits and kids also. Instagram favours over saturated colours and you do not post what does not turn out in the first place.

    For the Android all touch market having a Pixel level camera phone at $400 is something new.

    If BlackBerry tried to make a Motion 2 , the camera would likely be an issue.
    05-12-19 02:50 PM
  15. bh7171's Avatar
    Watch the video again and see where votes were taken. Instagram for 5 million votes and Twitter for another almost million. It's 100 percent NOT about full resolution. It's about where 99 percent of users and people view pictures taken by mobile phones and their choices in those formats. It cracks me up how many people just can't get the results. If media and tech pundits tell people things enough they just can't shake when results don't match their selling points in video and written reviews. I personally love the BlackBerry KeyOne shocking the pundits and kicking some ***.
    I'd like to see that repeated, but with the original photos in full resolution. I'm fairly certain it would have a different outcome.
    05-12-19 03:36 PM
  16. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Watch the video again and see where votes were taken. Instagram for 5 million votes and Twitter for another almost million. It's 100 percent NOT about full resolution. It's about where 99 percent of users and people view pictures taken by mobile phones and their choices in those formats. It cracks me up how many people just can't get the results. If media and tech pundits tell people things enough they just can't shake when results don't match their selling points in video and written reviews. I personally love the BlackBerry KeyOne shocking the pundits and kicking some ***.
    Why watch it again? It doesn't change what I said.
    05-12-19 04:03 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It is taking pictures in poor conditions that makes the difference. Portraits and kids also. Instagram favours over saturated colours and you do not post what does not turn out in the first place.

    For the Android all touch market having a Pixel level camera phone at $400 is something new.

    If BlackBerry tried to make a Motion 2 , the camera would likely be an issue.
    I don't take many photos for personal use on my phone, as I prefer to use a DSLR, but i've taken a bunch of sports photos and videos with my KEYone, including action shots, and have been happy with the results.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-12-19 04:14 PM
  18. bh7171's Avatar
    People didn't view or vote on the photos posted for the test in full resolution. They picked what they viewed as the the better or best mobile photo image captured and posted in two of the applications people view most images online. (Instagram and Twitter) Phones that were/are considered lessor "photo quality" phones handily beat others pundits fall all over themselves in reviews. You can argue "if's" if that pleases you but it does not change the outcome of this particular test and which mobile camera was deemed better or worse in regards to images posted.
    Why watch it again? It doesn't change what I said.
    05-12-19 04:37 PM
  19. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    People didn't view or vote on the photos posted for the test in full resolution. They picked what they viewed as the the better or best mobile photo image captured and posted in two of the applications people view most images online. (Instagram and Twitter) Phones that were/are considered lessor "photo quality" phones handily beat others pundits fall all over themselves in reviews. You can argue "if's" if that pleases you but it does not change the outcome of this particular test and which mobile camera was deemed better or worse in regards to images posted.
    Could you decide which performance vehicle you want to buy in a blind test on NYC streets? Sure, and that may in fact be where you spend most of your time in it, but...
    you would probably make a different choice if you could take each on an open road, where their performance could properly be judged.
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    05-12-19 08:55 PM
  20. IceCreamPlz's Avatar
    I don't take many photos for personal use on my phone, as I prefer to use a DSLR, but i've taken a bunch of sports photos and videos with my KEYone, including action shots, and have been happy with the results.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    BB cameras consistently (except PRIV) fail me when I'm trying to snap receipts to submit for an expense report (not always well lit).

    My opinion is that cameras are now a must for a business-focused device.
    05-12-19 09:29 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BB cameras consistently (except PRIV) fail me when I'm trying to snap receipts to submit for an expense report (not always well lit).

    My opinion is that cameras are now a must for a business-focused device.
    Yes, receipts, parking locations, snapshots of preexisting damage on rental cars, etc. Are part of the daily work of a business phone. I'm sorry to hear you've had problems. My KEYone has been pretty much perfect for these functions.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-13-19 04:04 PM
  22. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    People didn't view or vote on the photos posted for the test in full resolution. They picked what they viewed as the the better or best mobile photo image captured and posted in two of the applications people view most images online. (Instagram and Twitter) Phones that were/are considered lessor "photo quality" phones handily beat others pundits fall all over themselves in reviews. You can argue "if's" if that pleases you but it does not change the outcome of this particular test and which mobile camera was deemed better or worse in regards to images posted.
    I know what they voted and why they voted. It doesn't change the fact that this wasn't a true shootout that would let each camera show its full potential and abilities. I'd be pissed if I was someone who based my phone buying decision using that video thinking there wasnt much difference and found out later the device I'd chosen had a crap camera.
    05-14-19 01:12 AM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The blind test is good for people whose primary need for a camera is to post pictures on social media. Instagram rewards punchy colours and high contrast. Still, ultimately the best cameras can take pictures in all light conditions . The blind test should eliminate phones from the competition if they do not work well for nighttime or low light situations.

    The blind test does not look past the product. I like using the iPhone software for taking pictures and the way it interacts with Instagram etc. I really like Google Photos and I store all my photos there . If you sent out a group of average users with a certain phone vs another phone perhaps ease of use and other factors may influence the final product.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 05-14-19 at 09:45 AM.
    05-14-19 09:15 AM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The blind test is good for people whose primary need for a camera is to post pictures on social media. Instagram rewards punchy colours and high contrast.
    TVs in a showroom are always set on Vivid even though you would never want to actually use it that way - but most people comparing TVs side to side will pick the TV with the highest saturation and contrast as "the best". It's the same thing.

    Still, ultimately the best cameras can take pictures in all light conditions . The blind test should eliminate phones from the competition if they do not work well for nighttime or low light situations.
    Absolutely. A daytime static shot is fine to establish a baseline, but low-light and motion shots are what really separates a mediocre camera from a great camera.

    The blind test does not look past the product. I like using the iPhone software for taking pictures and the way it interacts with Instagram etc. I really like Google Photos and I store all my photos there . If you sent out a group of average users with a certain phone vs another phone perhaps ease of use and other factors may influence the final product.
    While I do agree with you, to be fair, this would be beyond the scope of most camera tests, or would represent a small percentage of the overall score, so I don't really fault them for not including it.

    But if you can't take pictures of your kids or the dog playing in the park (because the constant movement confuses the camera's focus) or you can't get decent pictures in lower light situations (most indoor shots), then you don't have much of a camera.
    05-14-19 10:25 PM
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