07-23-17 11:59 PM
28 12
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  1. anon(10252394)'s Avatar
    To what extent are the complaints of screen popping and software foibles and track feature of the keyboard inconsistencies and other difficulties with the keyone device statistically significant or actually not so? That is to say what percentage of these devices actually demonstrate troubles with hardware and software or both? Is it a less than substantial segment of the sold devices or is it most? Do we know that?
    07-20-17 06:40 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    That is to say what percentage of these devices actually demonstrate troubles with hardware and software or both? Is it a less than substantial segment of the sold devices or is it most? Do we know that?
    Would need to how many were sold in order to account for it. The long and short of it, no one knows (Except TCL and even then it's likely not real time data) and everything thus far is based on speculation and user accounts.
    07-20-17 06:47 PM
  3. early2bed's Avatar
    Statistically speaking, if you have closed bucket full of beans, representing CrackBerry KeyOne owners, and you reach in blindly to grab a handful to find that they are mostly fresh but a dozen of them are spoiled (broken screens), there isn't really much doubt about what the rest of bucket looks like.
    07-20-17 07:07 PM
  4. evodevo69's Avatar
    Statistically speaking, if you have closed bucket full of beans, representing CrackBerry KeyOne owners, and you reach in blindly to grab a handful to find that they are mostly fresh but a dozen of them are spoiled (broken screens), there isn't really much doubt about what the rest of bucket looks like.
    Well if there are 100 reports on crackberry and 300 owners on crackberry - that is a skewed statistic it is said, because we don't know how many total k1's were sold.

    Nevermind that we don't know the total number of defective units either - apparently that isn't significant because most of the defects are reported on crackberry already...everyone knows to come here to report.

    Instead - you'd have to look at CBK's 4 Keyones in the video plus the 10 or so friends you know who also have KEYones that have no issues. So you know 14 people who have no issues and that is statistically sound to the point where you can extrapolate this to the global population of KEYone owners...



    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    stanfordprof likes this.
    07-20-17 07:21 PM
  5. nycspaces.'s Avatar
    How do we account for the poor putz who is not on crackberry who drops his phone and the screen falls out and thinks the failure was do their action not just a poorly assembled phone.

    TCL should really release the ID's or assembly dates of gluegate phones vs KEYglue phones.
    07-20-17 07:34 PM
  6. anon(4297019)'s Avatar
    Statistically speaking, if you have closed bucket full of beans, representing CrackBerry KeyOne owners, and you reach in blindly to grab a handful to find that they are mostly fresh but a dozen of them are spoiled (broken screens), there isn't really much doubt about what the rest of bucket looks like.
    That supposition is getting tired. Try Jelly Beans next pull.
    modifier likes this.
    07-20-17 08:40 PM
  7. evodevo69's Avatar
    How do we account for the poor putz who is not on crackberry who drops his phone and the screen falls out and thinks the failure was do their action not just a poorly assembled phone.

    TCL should really release the ID's or assembly dates of gluegate phones vs KEYglue phones.
    You don't - you need to account only for all the people outside of crackberry who bought K1's and never had a problem.

    The poor putz you describe is rare - the vast majority of people with issues come to CB...the vast majority of owners with no problems are out in the wild, unaccounted for. The vast majority of people with problems, are already accounted for here at CB.

    Makes sense yet? lol



    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    07-20-17 09:20 PM
  8. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    To what extent are the complaints of screen popping and software foibles and track feature of the keyboard inconsistencies and other difficulties with the keyone device statistically significant or actually not so? That is to say what percentage of these devices actually demonstrate troubles with hardware and software or both? Is it a less than substantial segment of the sold devices or is it most? Do we know that?
    Those that would give you a percentage probably don't know, and those that know probably ain't telling.

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.3.2049
    07-20-17 09:34 PM
  9. mtdyson's Avatar
    The problem was big enough to warrant a change in production. I don't think that is an insignificant amount of users. Also CBK and others mentioned ( excluding then ten friends that also have Keyones?) had preproduction or models that their quality department went over with a fine toothed comb. I work in automotive production and we build 1500 cars a day in 16 hours, the company knows where these cars are going and if the car is going for a review or VIP then that unit is quality checked every step of the way and documented as I'm sure the phones are that are going to end up being reviewed. I'm certain they just didn't pull a phone off the line, throw it in a box and mail it off to be reviewed.
    07-20-17 10:18 PM
  10. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    That supposition is getting tired. Try Jelly Beans next pull.
    Agrees that analogy was really bad!
    07-21-17 05:39 AM
  11. early2bed's Avatar
    If you limit your analysis to CrackBerry users who were here talking about the KeyOne before the release, you can still get a valid statistical sample. If you think that there are just a couple of hundred affected units based on what you see here then you’re dreaming. It’s basic statistical sampling.
    07-21-17 12:05 PM
  12. rx8er's Avatar
    To what extent are the complaints of screen popping and software foibles and track feature of the keyboard inconsistencies and other difficulties with the keyone device statistically significant or actually not so? That is to say what percentage of these devices actually demonstrate troubles with hardware and software or both? Is it a less than substantial segment of the sold devices or is it most? Do we know that?
    Unfortunately, if you own a KEYone, like me (from 29th of April) and after a period of over two months reading the reports of these screen failures etc., it mattered not a jot that the screen on my KEYone never showed any signs of falling out. It wasn't until mine fell out and the ensuing terrible customer support (joke), that the numbers began to matter.

    In other words, unless it happens to 'your' KEYone, it's not an issue and you can talk all the bs you want about 'low numbers affected', 'warranty will sort it' etc.

    Once your KEYone becomes a statistic and it turns out that the warranty is written on toilet paper, every thing changes....
    07-21-17 06:39 PM
  13. anon(10252394)'s Avatar
    But the probability of single occurrences in large groups is possible to calculate what one needs to have some statistics. I would be able to evaluate my chances of receiving a faulty K one item if I knew how many K1 items are faulty as compared to the whole universe of K1 phones. The problem is there is no way to evaluate and this crackberry forum only addresses a tiny proportion of the Blackberry owner device world because most people don't subscribe to this blog. I think the lack of any other choice of physical keyboard phone makes one sit in a universe where there is only one device available. That's that. Inasmuch as there is no other choice, the fact that the customer service is terrible is inconsequential. The decision must be made without reference to that established experience.
    07-22-17 09:12 AM
  14. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    All we have to go on is empirical data, and at some point you will have to draw your own conclusion. With every thread you look for reasons to not purchase, while obviously continuing to desire it. What is the statistical truth you want a KEYᵒⁿᵉ? What anecdotal CrackBerry evidence will nudge you off the fence?
    the lack of any other choice of physical keyboard phone makes one sit in a universe where there is only one device available. That's that. Inasmuch as there is no other choice
    I'll do some CrackBerry math, for craps and giggles. The KEYᵒⁿᵉ has been available for 147 days. It soft launched at Selfridges and unsubstantiated rumors put the first day sales around 700. Global availability has expanded greatly since then, so I'll speculate average daily sales of 200 would be a fairly low-ball number to use. That's 29,400 units sold to date. The other guestimate needed is failure rate. Around 100 remote screen enhancements have been posted, and probably about as many more misc hardware instances. If only a quarter of the total posted on CrackBerry, then there have been 800 warranty claims. While 2.7% failure rate sounds high I think my numbers are skewed to the bad, and not out of the norm...
    https://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspection.../ucm072912.htm
    07-22-17 11:02 AM
  15. anon(10252394)'s Avatar
    So another interesting question that comes to mind is what exactly holds the screen in the phone in the unimproved original model that is subject to screen popping or lifting? Is it clips or some kind of structural item that can break or get weakened? Is it crummy quality or incorrectly or incompletely glue that comes loose like the case was for passport? What is the real cause? If the original unimproved model is intact at the origin and never bent or moved or squeezed or otherwise subjected to any edge shear traction pressures, would one expect the screen never to pop or does the screen pop with the device just sitting there untouched?
    07-22-17 11:51 AM
  16. dag99's Avatar
    "TCL should really release the ID's or assembly dates of gluegate phones vs KEYglue phones."

    I completely agree with this suggestion. My phone is loaded with confidential information. Reports of those with the screen falling off state that often the phone cannot be used which means you might have to send the phone in for service or replacement loaded with sensitive data.

    If I knew that my phone was produced in the batch with defective adhesive I would want it fixed proactively before the screen falls off. I would be willing to pay shipping if necessary but frankly the manufacturer should eat it, as the product should be recalled.
    07-22-17 12:54 PM
  17. dag99's Avatar
    One more thing . . . if I have to run android I'd rather use the K1 with the physical keyboard than another device, however, if my screen turns out to be defective I will not return a phone containing personal data and will never buy a BB again (this is my 5th BB).
    07-22-17 12:58 PM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    "TCL should really release the ID's or assembly dates of gluegate phones vs KEYglue phones."
    That's great in theory, but most likely it's a random issue. If it could be pinpointed to one or a few batches, why BBMo would have stated they changed the production, instead of changing quality control, to ensure no future problems.

    if my screen turns out to be defective I will not return a phone containing personal data and will never buy a BB again
    Considering you'd be buying from the new production, I suspect you have just as much potential the phone gets stolen.
    07-22-17 04:39 PM
  19. dag99's Avatar
    I highly doubt this is a random event. Many have described a lack of adhesive which means either the person responsible for applying the adhesive is not doing his/her job or the adhesive is defective or the machine that applies the adhesive is not working properly. Those are not random events - all indicate failure of process. If this were random then statistically there would be an equal change of this happening or not happening and that's certainly not the case.

    In today's computer driven manufacturing world, they should know the lot number, date, times and likely the workers involved. My concern is that the problem is bigger than we think which could have significant business implications like the Samsung battery issue.
    07-23-17 10:43 AM
  20. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I highly doubt this is a random event. Many have described a lack of adhesive which means either the person responsible for applying the adhesive is not doing his/her job or the adhesive is defective or the machine that applies the adhesive is not working properly. Those are not random events - all indicate failure of process. If this were random then statistically there would be an equal change of this happening or not happening and that's certainly not the case.

    In today's computer driven manufacturing world, they should know the lot number, date, times and likely the workers involved. My concern is that the problem is bigger than we think which could have significant business implications like the Samsung battery issue.
    I think folks are expecting to find a gooey substance, when that's not what's used.

    https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/...e#answer238393

    I believe it a little less rare than this.
    07-23-17 11:18 AM
  21. evodevo69's Avatar
    I think folks are expecting to find a gooey substance, when that's not what's used.

    https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/...e#answer238393

    I believe it a little less rare than this.
    You believe it is less rare than the screen lifting on the iphone 5 that were occurring 3 years after they were launched?

    How many iphone 5's were sold and how many reports of screen lifting again? And at what point in its life span did these lifts occur?

    Anybody else seeing this? You honestly believe a screen lift issue on the iphone 5 was more common than the one happening right now on the KEYone...

    Smh...this guy loll



    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    Bbnivende likes this.
    07-23-17 11:57 AM
  22. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    You believe it is less rare than the screen lifting on the iphone 5 that were occurring 3 years after they were launched?

    How many iphone 5's were sold and how many reports of screen lifting again? And at what point in its life span did these lifts occur?

    Anybody else seeing this? You honestly believe a screen lift issue on the iphone 5 was more common than the one happening right now on the KEYone...

    Smh...this guy loll



    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comm...t_seems_to_be/

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6553994?tstart=0

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...g-out.1644336/

    I said the iPhone issues are not as common, from what can be construed, but just like the KEYᵒⁿᵉ, we never will know the true statistics.
    07-23-17 12:14 PM
  23. mtdyson's Avatar
    I think folks are expecting to find a gooey substance, when that's not what's used.

    https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/...e#answer238393

    I believe it a little less rare than this.
    You have to look at how many were produced by both too. You are comparing an apple launch to a blackberry launch. Hundreds of thousands of phones compared to a few thousand. I agree the defect percent may be the same or close between the Apple and Blackberry but the fact remains that TCL nor Blackberry will release affected phone manufacturing dates because people will within those dates will want their phones replaced. It's pretty easy to assume that it was not a couple days of production that were affected but probably every phone since start of production. TCL and Blackberry agreed to make changes to how the phones were produced due to the number of reported problems and after an investigation of their production process realized that it was not an actual production error but an engineering process error ( using the minimum amount of adhesive thought to be sufficient). Although it looks like they are responding rapidly to please the customers in reality they are withholding information ( lot numbers affected) hoping most phones hold together until the Warranty expires. I'm sorry but it does not give me the feel goods or give me faith in TCL. I would add Blackberry onto that but I'm sure Blackberry has little to do with the phones other than software since TCL designs and produces them.
    07-23-17 01:45 PM
  24. super_rigel's Avatar
    I bought two 'first batch' KeyONE's. No issues whatsoever. I'm not saying it's not happening, just stating that mine are in excellent working order.
    07-23-17 10:10 PM
  25. mtdyson's Avatar
    I bought two 'first batch' KeyONE's. No issues whatsoever. I'm not saying it's not happening, just stating that mine are in excellent working order.
    For now and hopefully stay that way.
    super_rigel and BigBadWulf like this.
    07-23-17 10:54 PM
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