[dollface]

A seller listed the phone on Amazon for $544.



https://www.amazon.com/BlackBerry-Ke...UvbUpU12899347

I'm thinking that might be a developers' phone, why would you sell it for less than you paid?

[ray689]

If you think stock-outs are an absolute indication of fail, then are you on Apple and Samsung sites to complain there too? Oh, when they do it, it's appropriate marketing strategy? Limit supply to produce artificial demand?

The KEYone is a niche product, agreed? The number of people buying them are much fewer than Apple or Samsung, agreed? Distribution is worldwide. Of course there's going to be limited supply. Further, they're not going to produce a ton of product all at once. They'll spread the manufacturing over time.

When the tweet said that the delay was due to building stock to prevent a stock-out, I posted that I felt it was marketing spin.

Okay, your turn. What did you post that they did right?

First of all, what part of what you just said is showing how the launch has gone right? You are just making assumptions as to what you think they did. Second of all, keeping up with demand for a niche product is not the same as keeping up with demand for a product that parts manufacturers can't even make parts for fast enough isn't even a comparison.

[ray689]

When did I say anything about this launch not being mishandled? I don't think any of us think that this launch has gone off smoothly, unless that one guy who said he thought it was wasn't joking, lol. The difference is those of us who think it's because Cistulli and everyone else for whatever reason didn't want to sell this phone and be successful and was intentionally trying to screw everything up, or that they are all incompetent and the folk here on CB obviously knows how to run a large business better than they do, and those of us who recognize that there could be more than what we completely understand about all of this and that it's foolish to simply jump to conclusions because your emotions tell you to. And equally foolish to assume which group out-number the other. The fact is, people are more likely to post in forums when things are going wrong than when things are going right. You think the few dozen people you see posting here are all of the people actually reading this. There are a whole lot of people who are reading this and do not share your opinion that simply don't care to reply. While pretty much everyone who is up in arms is here actively commenting. So while I am never the one to claim that majority opinion is more valid than a minority opinion (if I did I'd be using a Samsung or iPhone...), I think maybe you need to pump the brakes a little bit before being so 100% sure of your assessment of how much people actually care about this...

Don't get me wrong, I actually like that some people care, but it's like "hey look, another thread started by one of the people who have started 15 of the other threads about the same thing, yipee."

Nobody ever said Steve or anyone purposely did this. But they can screw up, make mistakes and mishandle and miscalculate a lot of things. As for your first point that people never said this launch has not been mishandled, what do you expect people to think their opinion on it is when any time BlackBerry mobile is criticized someone jumps in with an explanation that in no way holds BlackBerry mobile accountable for anything.
I'll give an example. Yesterday Steve tweeted that a CDMA unlocked version would be available today. When this was brought up, the response was " Verizon likely put pressure on them not sell it" (not sure if exact quote but context is). So what people are supposed to believe Verizon big wigs looked on amazon last night and saw a CDMA version and made a quick call to stop it all lol. This person's explanation came even after people confirmed with Amazon that they never even had that variant to begin with.
By the way, not saying it was you who said all this. All I'm saying is when this is the type of response consistently when people are critical then naturally it would lead one to think that those making the response don't have issue with the launch process.

[cbvinh]

First of all, what part of what you just said is showing how the launch has gone right? You are just making assumptions as to what you think they did. Second of all, keeping up with demand for a niche product is not the same as keeping up with demand for a product that's parts manufacturers can't even make parts for fast enough isn't even a comparison.

They said in late April that Canada would have pre-orders starting in the middle of May. Happened. They said deliveries would start May 31st. Happened. They said U.S. sales would start on May 31st. Happened. Apple, Samsung, etc. are considered to have delivered if they met those criteria, even when they have stock-outs on release day.

[SeanSolo]

Wow what a crazy thread this has become

[donnation]

They said in late April that Canada would have pre-orders starting in the middle of May. Happened. They said deliveries would start May 31st. Happened. They said U.S. sales would start on May 31st. Happened. Apple, Samsung, etc. are considered to have delivered if they met those criteria, even when they have stock-outs on release day.

Yes, but let's take Apple for example. If they are releasing a phone and give a date for said phone and then come back and say "Due to the overwhelming demand of this phone we are delaying it because we don't want to have any stock outs." If they then released the phone on the delayed date but still had stock outages they would be crushed for it.

We are also talking way different scales here. There wouldn't' be more than maybe a few thousand people who actually knew this device was available on May 31st, because TCL has done zero marketing for the phone. Not having that small of an amount pretty much speaks volumes to what they actually had prepared.

[ray689]

They said in late April that Canada would have pre-orders starting in the middle of May. Happened. They said deliveries would start May 31st. Happened. They said U.S. sales would start on May 31st. Happened. Apple, Samsung, etc. are considered to have delivered if they met those criteria, even when they have stock-outs on release day.

Yes and those are things I mentioned. If you consider 700 phones at the end of April and who knows how many on may 31st (likely not many more then a few thousand) as delivering then yes that has gone right. But to compare a few thousand to 20 million over a weekend or whatever it is apple sells is really just out to lunch.

[cbvinh]

Yes, but let's take Apple for example. If they are releasing a phone and give a date for said phone and then come back and say "Due to the overwhelming demand of this phone we are delaying it because we don't want to have any stock outs." If they then released the phone on the delayed date but still had stock outages they would be crushed for it.

We are also talking way different scales here. There wouldn't' be more than maybe a few thousand people who actually knew this device was available on May 31st, because TCL has done zero marketing for the phone. Not having that small of an amount pretty much speaks volumes to what they actually had prepared.

Apple be crushed for it? They would just spin it and say that even with the utmost effort to have no stock-outs, demand even exceeded their wildest estimates. If BlackBerry Mobile said that, many would be laughing. For Apple, the spin would work even if they did nothing extra to increase supply. Apple is judged on their past history. BlackBerry Mobile is judged on BlackBerry's past history. That's why you would laugh at one and not the other.

They either produced whatever they could, whatever they projected or whatever was ordered by carriers and retailers. The first would be a limitation of what resources they're willing to commit. The second is a judgement call. The third is a judgement call by others.

Side question: Since supply was limited and they knew it, would it make sense for them to advertise at the levels some people have been demanding? Or did they make the right call?

[cbvinh]

Yes and those are things I mentioned. If you consider 700 phones at the end of April and who knows how many on may 31st (likely not many more then a few thousand) as delivering then yes that has gone right. But to compare a few thousand to 20 million over a weekend or whatever it is apple sells is really just out to lunch.

Both companies are producing product to the scale of their respective market.

[donnation]

Apple be crushed for it? They would just spin it and say that even with the utmost effort to have no stock-outs, demand even exceeded their wildest estimates. If BlackBerry Mobile said that, many would be laughing. For Apple, the spin would work even if they did nothing extra to increase supply. Apple is judged on their past history. BlackBerry Mobile is judged on BlackBerry's past history. That's why you would laugh at one and not the other.

They either produced whatever they could, whatever they projected or whatever was ordered by carriers and retailers. The first would be a limitation of what resources they're willing to commit. The second is a judgement call. The third is a judgement call by others.

Side question: Since supply was limited and they knew it, would it make sense for them to advertise at the levels some people have been demanding? Or did they make the right call?

In response to your first question, my reason for posting that is that Apple wouldn't make such a statement. They give a release date and however many they have, that's what they have. TCL couldn't have been any dumber to delay the device and make the statement they made.

Side question answer: I can see this will be the new spin for why there hasn't been any advertising. That may or may not be true, but I'll be shocked if they suddenly start advertising for this phone even when they have stock. I could be wrong, but I'm not counting on it.

[mrhobbsworth]

For those who missed out on what seems to be a limited release, you have every right to be disappointed. It's difficult to imagine that any company would purposely fall this short in bringing anything to market. One has to wonder if producing this device was much more challenging than what was anticipated.

[ray689]

Apple be crushed for it? They would just spin it and say that even with the utmost effort to have no stock-outs, demand even exceeded their wildest estimates.

Didn't BlackBerry Mobile actually already say this? Initially demand exceeded their expectations that they required a one month delay. Today they tweeted that demand is amazing and they are working with partners to get devices out.

[cbvinh]

In response to your first question, my reason for posting that is that Apple wouldn't make such a statement. They give a release date and however many they have, that's what they have. TCL couldn't have been any dumber to delay the device and make the statement they made.

Side question answer: I can see this will be the new spin for why there hasn't been any advertising. That may or may not be true, but I'll be shocked if they suddenly start advertising for this phone even when they have stock. I could be wrong, but I'm not counting on it.

When I first heard the stock-out tweet, I thought it was spin and posted as such. As some have said, probably a save face measure after Chen blurted the delay during the BlackBerry company meeting. We have no idea how the delay would have been announced if BlackBerry Mobile were allowed to announce on their own terms/timing.

Well, realistically, advertising is bought in advance, so advertising may just start because they didn't think they'd sell out so fast. The timing will be off. They can control the website, tweets, etc. but again, that timing will be off. People will just point out that there was a tweet saying availability but there isn't any, for example, not noting the timing.

The CDMA version should have been excluded from the press release. That's a definite mistake. The unlocked for Canada May 31st wasn't mentioned in the press release, only carriers. Perhaps there was a tweet about it? I haven't seen.

[cbvinh]

For those who missed out on what seems to be a limited release, you have every right to be disappointed. It's difficult to imagine that any company would purposely fall this short in bringing anything to market. One has to wonder if producing this device was much more challenging than what was anticipated.

Maybe not a challenge, but they have to manage resources for a niche market.

For example, do you pay your employees overtime for a week or spread the work over two weeks and pay regular time? That's 1x + 1.5x instead of 1x + 1x.

[cbvinh]

Didn't BlackBerry Mobile actually already say this? Initially demand exceeded their expectations that they required a one month delay. Today they tweeted that demand is amazing and they are working with partners to get devices out.

Working with partners to get more devices out ASAP is much more humble than saying "exceeded their wildest estimates" or some such. Read some Apple press releases.

[ray689]

Working with partners to get more devices out ASAP is much more humble than saying "exceeded their wildest estimates" or some such. Read some Apple press releases.

I'm not defending Apple. They are full of it a lot of the time too. But BlackBerry Mobile did say demand has exceeded expectations. As for the unlocked in Canada, they did tweet that yes.

[Jose Vazquez5]

Ordered from bestbuy today around noon est. Got the shipping notification around 4pm. Then right after I see bestbuy is sold out.

I ordered mine from bestbuy around 8:30 a.m. but I chose pickup in store. Mine is sitting in "Preparing" I wonder if they will have it before the estimated date of Saturday. Did you choose the 2 day shipping?

[Mtro]

Yes I chose the 2 day shipping and i think it changed the pick up in store only option to my home address. Regular shipping I only had the ship to store option. I think?

[ltoncb]

It's just what it says on Amazon. I'm sure meaning a BlackBerry from BlackBerry. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e8a427bd85.jpg

No. On Amazon's site and apps "by XYZ" means that XYZ is the manufacturer of the item. It is not necessarily the seller or the shipper.

On the website it will typically have something of the follow format under the price amount:

" in (or out of ) stock "
< some shipping estimate >
sold by ABC ships from DEF "

if seller an shipper are the same it may say "sold and shipped by ABC".

On the apps you have to actually go into the entry. Typically the same layout under the price. Then a "sold by" and "ships from" notification. That #1 seller on Amazon is a "sold and sihip from Amazon" item. That $819 is not.

Amazon can warehouse items for folks ( and even sell out of the same storage bins that Amazon uses ) so can see "shipped by Amazon" if they are actually doing the warehouse/shipping work.

[Tim-ANC]

https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...l#post12899827

France had their release today. Reported similar problems. Their BBMo page still shows "pre-register"

[stlabrat]

Well, the may 30/31 shall be "a night to remember" for all the NA CB. (I was lucky enough to secure one, many Thx for the CB sharp eyes buddy put on the alart). Well documented (on the cb forum) marketing case study. Too bad it repeated in other places... should be unique and one offs.

Posted via CB10

[roba5263]

I feel bad for those of you that missed the first wave. This thing is such an upgrade over the PRIV! Night and day!

[hoytbowhunter]

So I emailed the seller on amazon who has the KEYone in Stock, he's the one who has raised the price, but I was curious to see if he actually had them in stock. This is his reply to me, now he may be saying this to get me to order, but who knows.

[GLAT]

This is turning into the Nintendo Classic.

[Luke Beauchamp]

Good thing I preordered mine.