Yesterday 08:12 AM
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  1. dendron01's Avatar
    I'm simply making a point about using NIAP as a gauge for security. That's NOT what it's about.
    For you maybe. Then, there is the real world...and the government purchasing departments that need verifiable, certified security solutions - not pomp and circumstance tied to midrange specs and keyboards.
    Crusader03 likes this.
    05-02-19 05:30 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    For you maybe. Then, there is the real world....
    Well, that didn't take long. Too bad.
    05-02-19 05:33 PM
  3. dendron01's Avatar
    What part of the assessment is shallow?
    Jailbreaking an iPhone is the Apple equivalent of rooting. You can also root an NIAP certified Samsung. Big deal.

    Conite accusing NIAP being about no more than "jumping through administrative hoops" is both short-sighted and naive. It is incumbent upon lT professionals and the like to see past fanboy interests, and select products that are both proven and guarantee to perform as advertised.

    Stringent government certification procedures exist for a reason, and shortcuts around them have consequences. Just ask any pilot of a 737 Max.
    Crusader03 and elfabio80 like this.
    05-02-19 05:41 PM
  4. dendron01's Avatar
    Well, that didn't take long. Too bad.
    I was merely referring to your obvious, BlackBerry-biased position on the subject. Try seeing it from the perspective of a professional purchaser tasked with ordering certified, secure devices (that isn't a die-hard BlackBerry fan) for a large government or corporate client, not their own personal use. Would you put your reputation on the line ordering hundreds, even thousands of devices that weren't certified to be secure?
    Crusader03 likes this.
    05-02-19 05:44 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Jailbreaking an iPhone is the Apple equivalent of rooting. You can also root an NIAP certified Samsung. Big deal.

    Conite accusing NIAP being about no more than "jumping through administrative hoops" is both short-sighted and naive. It is incumbent upon lT professionals and the like to see past fanboy interests, and select products that are both proven and guarantee to perform as advertised.

    Stringent government certification procedures exist for a reason, and shortcuts around them have consequences. Just ask any pilot of a 737 Max.
    Obtaining a root on an Android devices can lead to all kinds of elevated privileges that could completely compromise the security of the device and the data on it - not to mention any information coming in or going out.
    Jake2826 likes this.
    05-02-19 05:48 PM
  6. dendron01's Avatar
    Obtaining a root on an Android devices can lead to all kinds of elevated privileges that could completely compromise the security of the device and the data on it - not to mention any information coming in or going out.
    And once you root a Samsung, you flip a security switch with a red flag, and void the warranty. Hmmm. Who's got all the conspiracies now? LOL.
    05-02-19 05:52 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    And once you root a Samsung, you flip a security switch with a red flag, and void the warranty. Hmmm. Who's got all the conspiracies now? LOL.
    That's what is supposed to happen, yes. But typically it doesn't happen until the next boot. What damage can be done between rooting and flagging?

    I'm less interested in what people USE a NIAP-certified list for, as I am in what it actually IS.

    Nor am I trying to disparage Knox or Apple - I'm not. I think they are both very good. I'm just saying that NIAP isn't the gauge you are looking for.
    Last edited by conite; 05-02-19 at 06:08 PM.
    05-02-19 05:54 PM
  8. dendron01's Avatar
    I'm just saying that NIAP isn't the gage you are looking for.
    Actually it is, thank you very much. One of many, in fact. And I'm sorry if it sounds disparaging, but NIAP not being relevant seems to be the gauge [sic] you need to justify that BlackBerry's self-laudatory security is quantifiably equal, or better. Perhaps the facts on this one are too inconveniently and annoyingly against BlackBerry's favour for your liking.

    But thanks for the entertaining discussion all the same!
    05-02-19 06:07 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I'm not saying anything of the sort. From where did you infer that?

    We don't know anything about what they are planning to do. Nor do we know anything of the deal between BBMo and Google.

    BlackBerry has nothing to do with any of it - they just do what their customers pay them to do, according to whatever contract exists between them.
    What did you mean or implying when you say:

    "At the end of the day, BlackBerry has to get paid for it. There is nothing more BlackBerry can gain from doing it for themselves." - Conite
    05-02-19 06:08 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    What did you mean or implying when you say:

    "At the end of the day, BlackBerry has to get paid for it. There is nothing more BlackBerry can gain from doing it for themselves." - Conite
    I know what I said, but I don't see the connection to your post.

    BBMo decides how they wish to handle any deal they have with Google.

    BBMo decides how many patches they wish to purchase from BlackBerry.
    05-02-19 06:10 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    "At the end of the day, BlackBerry has to get paid for it. There is nothing more BlackBerry can gain from doing it for themselves." - Conite

    What did you mean by the above statement . Please elaborate ...
    05-02-19 06:13 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    "At the end of the day, BlackBerry has to get paid for it. There is nothing more BlackBerry can gain from doing it for themselves." - Conite

    What did you mean by the above statement . Please elaborate ...
    Only BBMo stands to gain from whitepapers or audits or certifications regarding BlackBerry Android, so it would be up to them to make the business decision to pay BlackBerry for them.
    05-02-19 06:14 PM
  13. dendron01's Avatar
    Only BBMo stands to gain from whitepapers or audits or certifications regarding BlackBerry Android, so it would be up to them to make the business decision to pay BlackBerry for them.
    Translation: smoke and mirrors (until proven otherwise).
    Crusader03 likes this.
    05-02-19 06:16 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Translation: smoke and mirrors (until proven otherwise).
    Since BB doesn't sell devices anymore, why spend money on mobile. That's whole point of licensing the brand to someone else.

    There's several licensed brands that exist in name only in other retail items. The licensee is literally agreeing to and paying terms originally determined.

    As far as how good BBAndroid is security-wise, it's not focal point outside the niche already supporting the mobile products.
    05-02-19 07:25 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    FYI.... BlackBerry Android Secure, is a failed product that BlackBerry doesn't care about at this point.

    BBMo is about the PKB.... if you want a PKB then you'll get Android Secure too (and pay for it). But clearly enterprise didn't buy into Android Secure. What the future holds... we don't know.

    Was it a bad product no, it suffered from the stumbling that BB Ltd did with the PRIV and the DETK along with the BB10 fiasco that burn many in enterprise that bought in. Add then to a Chinese company taking on the task of reselling branded devices... BlackBerry's Android Secure really had no hope. Not because of what it was, but because of who was trying to offer it.... lack of trust.

    Can a device be rooted and information pulled from it... from what I have seen the answer is no. Can a device be rooted without a users knowledge than rebooted without them noticing anything... it would be very tough to set everything back up - but maybe. Can it be rooted and joined to a protected network.... not if the UEM is set up correctly. To me no root access really a big plus. If things go like they "appear" to be... going to be a lot of folks wishing they had root access.
    05-03-19 08:38 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    FYI.... BlackBerry Android Secure, is a failed product that BlackBerry doesn't care about at this point.

    BBMo is about the PKB.... if you want a PKB then you'll get Android Secure too (and pay for it). But clearly enterprise didn't buy into Android Secure. What the future holds... we don't know.

    Was it a bad product no, it suffered from the stumbling that BB Ltd did with the PRIV and the DETK along with the BB10 fiasco that burn many in enterprise that bought in. Add then to a Chinese company taking on the task of reselling branded devices... BlackBerry's Android Secure really had no hope. Not because of what it was, but because of who was trying to offer it.... lack of trust.

    Can a device be rooted and information pulled from it... from what I have seen the answer is no. Can a device be rooted without a users knowledge than rebooted without them noticing anything... it would be very tough to set everything back up - but maybe. Can it be rooted and joined to a protected network.... not if the UEM is set up correctly. To me no root access really a big plus. If things go like they "appear" to be... going to be a lot of folks wishing they had root access.
    Certainly the brand identification is with the PKB, But I don't know that a KEYone from TCL without BlackBerry's security credentials would have sold half as many units. I can say there is no way in Hell I would have bought a Chinese Android without the guarantee that BlackBerry provided regarding OS integrity.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Jake2826 likes this.
    05-03-19 09:17 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Certainly the brand identification is with the PKB, But I don't know that a KEYone from TCL without BlackBerry's security credentials would have sold half as many units. I can say there is no way in Hell I would have bought a Chinese Android without the guarantee that BlackBerry provided regarding OS integrity.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Thing is are current levels, profitable for both TCL and BlackBerry?
    05-09-19 08:53 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Thing is are current levels, profitable for both TCL and BlackBerry?
    It doesn't seem so to me, but I don't know that a lower-priced PKB device without security would even sell as many devices. BBMo probably has the market research to decide.

    I know many people here would be happy with a PKB with generic Android. I'd rather have a slab with BlackBerry software, including their version of Android and DTEK.

    I would be happiest if Google did everything without a need for BlackBerry:

    1) locked down Android properly (including more user-friendly global permissions reporting and management; Blackberry-style boot protection; built in security audit that would flag bad OEM configurations, etc.)

    2) tamed the damned notification tray with much more detailed notification management and profiles

    3) beefed up thumb-swipe gestures so that I never needed the buttons

    So long as a phone meets my needs, I don't care who makes it. I don't believe in brand loyalty.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-09-19 11:36 AM
  19. Since2007's Avatar
    Any word if the security patches are done on KeyOne's?
    Yesterday 08:12 AM
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