07-29-17 11:54 AM
53 123
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  1. h16's Avatar
    K1 bought from clove UK.
    Boxing date is 7 May 2017.

    Last night I've made an experiment:
    K1 in my oven, set to ventilated, 55 C.
    Pic attached (the doors was closed, its opened in the photo to better show the scene).

    Duration of the experiment: 4 1/2 hours.

    I've made an error though, i.e. on the beginning, for some minutes, the detected temperature has been over 60 C: approx 64, then lowering.

    Then, 4 1/2 hours ranging from 49 to 55.

    Just after the "cooking", I made the suction cup test.
    I've been able to lift effortlessy the side of the screen not facing the oven's fan, i.e. the side where the heat was greater.

    On this side there was evidence of glue, and it melted.
    The color of the melted / disintegrated glue was brownish.
    The other side was still firmly attached.

    Today I brought the K1 at the repair shop here, they have put some glue on the detaching side, charged nothing for the repair, now the screen is again 100% firm.
    Btw, the guy at the shop told me that in these weeks he reattached a few lifted screens (not K1 of course) due to glue melting because of direct sunlight heat.

    What I've learned is that, likely, past 60 C my K1 glue starts to melt.
    Or, that it starts to melt after more than 4 hours at 50-55 C.
    I dont know if that means that this glue is defective, and a proper glue should start to melt at a higher temperature...

    Anyway, I'm more than happy, because now I know that my K1 _has_ glue.
    I'll be careful to not put it on an oven at more than 60 C, or, to be conservative, also under direct summertime sunlight for many hours.

    UPDATE [27 Jul 2017]
    Some additional infos about the yesterday's experiment:

    1] During the long 4 1/2 hourstest, for at least 90% of the whole duration, the temperature has been <= 52 C.

    2] The guy at the repair shop told me today that the glue he has put yesterday on the detached side of the screen was, so to speak, a temporary glue, in the likely possibility that also the other side will lift.

    3] An interesting thing about the melting process of the glue, is that after some hours the glue disintegrated in little pieces, and so felt out when I lifted for the 2nd time the screen.

    4] This morning I've made a little experiment:
    I've put the K1, face down, on a metallic table under direct sunlight [31.5 C here today this morning].
    After some minutes, grabbed the phone, and I think it was a little bit warmer than the yesterday experiment at 50/55 C.
    Usual msg on the screen about excessive heat.
    I've not tried immediately the suction cup test.

    Now for the update:
    Some hours after the "metallic table" experiment I was ready to make a 2nd test in the oven.
    I tried, just to have all documented, to lift the screen again with the suction cup, and bam!, the screen lifted with little effort also from the side that yesterday was firmly attached [see 1st pic, the order has been inverted].

    So, my hypothesis is that on the first batch there was not (or at least not only) an issue of missing glue, but that the problem was the glue type, not withstanding a prolonged heat exposure, being this heat exposure possible in summertime i.e.

    Now at the repair shop the guy gave me the choice of using a 3m adhesive or
    a proper glue... he said that with a proper glue the screen will be more firmly attached, only issue will be that in case of repair, it will be needed some heat to again detach it.
    I chose the 2nd option.


    UPDATE [29 Jul 2017]
    Temperature here now is 30.5 C.
    Put the thermometer's sensor in a dark bag (see pic).
    After 5 minutes, the reading is 61 C.
    Attached Thumbnails Oven experiment: glue starts to melt past 60 C (but the phone stayed also 4 1/2 hours at 50-55 C)-k1_detached0.jpg   Oven experiment: glue starts to melt past 60 C (but the phone stayed also 4 1/2 hours at 50-55 C)-img_0139-01.jpg   Oven experiment: glue starts to melt past 60 C (but the phone stayed also 4 1/2 hours at 50-55 C)-img_0120-01.jpg   Oven experiment: glue starts to melt past 60 C (but the phone stayed also 4 1/2 hours at 50-55 C)-img_20170726_1654519-01.jpg  
    Last edited by h16; 07-29-17 at 06:59 AM.
    Uzi, ce71, joewoo and 3 others like this.
    07-26-17 12:39 PM
  2. falbo's Avatar
    Well that's handy to know in case someone drops their K1 into the oven when cooking and doesn't notice they have.
    07-26-17 12:50 PM
  3. o4liberty's Avatar
    Wow never thought anyone would try that I guess I was wrong!,
    07-26-17 01:15 PM
  4. Lobwedgephil's Avatar
    What in the world?
    07-26-17 01:16 PM
  5. tnewton3's Avatar
    Please just lock these threads, they have zero useful information in them. CB Kevin did the all the real world testing we need to see. Why cook your phone?
    Azumarill likes this.
    07-26-17 01:49 PM
  6. brookie229's Avatar
    Nice way to damage your battery also.
    07-26-17 01:56 PM
  7. JeBe4's Avatar
    Gotta love science - I mean I would never go through all this for a cellphone, especially when TCFail can simply state if my IMEI has glue or not - but thank you for your efforts!
    07-26-17 02:02 PM
  8. thurask's Avatar
    07-26-17 02:03 PM
  9. h16's Avatar
    Well that's handy to know in case someone drops their K1 into the oven when cooking and doesn't notice they have.
    Cooking something at 55 C is a bit weird though.

    Jokes apart, it would be interesting to understand if some of the screen lifting issues are due to improper, as well as missing, glue, meaning that the glue starts to melt at a low temperature, so in this case it would be enough to put the K1 under direct sunlight for some time, for the screen lifting to happen...
    Or maybe 55-60 C is an ok thresold, I dont know.

    Anyway, it has been really nice to have a controlled screen lifting case.

    No more paranoia for me.

    I was hoping also to give an example of how to check for glue ok / not ok, and preemptive fix, seen the now big number of the lifting cases.

    About the battery damage, I will see, but I dont think it has been damaged, not at this temperature and for this time.

    And, about the need of locking this thread, my opinion is that having some measuraments instead of conjectures is always a good thing.

    If on the other hand the mods, or people, here, think that seeing a pic of a K1 in an oven can corrupt the crackberry users minds to the point of making them really cook their phones, I' m completely ok with it, delete this thread,
    I could'nt care less in this case.
    FF22, itsFirhan and elfabio80 like this.
    07-26-17 02:28 PM
  10. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    K1 bought from clove UK.
    Boxing date is 7 May 2017.

    Last night I've made an experiment:
    K1 in my oven, set to ventilated, 55 C.
    Pic attached (the doors was closed, its opened in the photo to better show the scene).

    Duration of the experiment: 4 1/2 hours.

    I've made an error though, i.e. on the beginning, for some minutes, the detected temperature has been over 60 C: approx 64, then lowering.

    Then, 4 1/2 hours ranging from 49 to 55.

    Just after the "cooking", I made the suction cup test.
    I've been able to lift effortlessy the side of the screen not facing the oven's fan, i.e. the side where the heat was greater.

    On this side there was evidence of glue, and it melted.
    The color of the melted / disintegrated glue was brownish.
    The other side was still firmly attached.

    Today I brought the K1 at the repair shop here, they have put some glue on the detaching side, charged nothing for the repair, now the screen is again 100% firm.
    Btw, the guy at the shop told me that in these weeks he reattached a few lifted screens (not K1 of course) due to glue melting because of direct sunlight heat.

    What I've learned is that, likely, past 60 C my K1 glue starts to melt.
    Or, that it starts to melt after more than 4 hours at 50-55 C.
    I dont know if that means that this glue is defective, and a proper glue should start to melt at a higher temperature...

    Anyway, I'm more than happy, because now I know that my K1 _has_ glue.
    I'll be careful to not put it on an oven at more than 60 C, or, to be conservative, also under direct summertime sunlight for many hours.
    Question!? Why would you use your hard earned cash and bake you key One in the oven!?
    Last edited by cellphonejunkey; 07-26-17 at 04:25 PM.
    07-26-17 02:29 PM
  11. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Thank you, I guess?
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    07-26-17 02:39 PM
  12. joewoo's Avatar
    I like it...
    07-26-17 02:40 PM
  13. hjc73734's Avatar
    60C is a bit high isn't it?

    But thanks for the experiment. Curious to ask why you didn't bother detaching the entire screen for the repair since it was going to the shop anyways.
    07-26-17 02:52 PM
  14. FF22's Avatar
    Hey, nothing wrong with some experimentation. As indicated, a dash in a car can get very hot on a sunny day. While there are sometimes instructions not to leave things on the dash, it can sometimes happen. Actually, I'm sure that my leather seats can also hit those temps on a hot day.

    By the way, 55C is approx 131F.
    07-26-17 02:56 PM
  15. krazyatom's Avatar
    Thanks for testing this out. My keyone usually stays indoor most of time.

    Posted via CB10
    07-26-17 02:56 PM
  16. heyjohnnybravo's Avatar
    Please just lock these threads, they have zero useful information in them. CB Kevin did the all the real world testing we need to see. Why cook your phone?
    Because phones were still popping off after durability tests and nobody's given a reasonable explanation regarding the glue.
    hjc73734 likes this.
    07-26-17 03:01 PM
  17. mrsimon's Avatar
    he didnt bake or cook his phone. he exposed it to heat. why is anyone surprised on here. Crackberry is aptly named.
    CBK 's video is entertaining but nothing else. Dropping causes other damage.
    Constant heat from the battery through usage is what has been affecting the screens.
    In the K1's case, the glue and / the casing deforms or is affected through heat over time and causes the screen to fall.
    Hopefully, the casing and the glue have been corrected to take this into account.
    So, a strange experiment for a private buyer but should've been carried out by the manufacturer.
    FF22 likes this.
    07-26-17 03:30 PM
  18. h16's Avatar
    60C is a bit high isn't it?

    But thanks for the experiment. Curious to ask why you didn't bother detaching the entire screen for the repair since it was going to the shop anyways.
    Yes 60 was too much, my mistake (only some minutes btw), also if this error gave the 60 C thresold hypothesis.

    About the other side: the interesting thing is that it was really strongly attached, no sign of degraded glue like on the side not facing the fan, so didnt want to force it too much.

    The next experiment I'll do will be to put the K1 in the oven again, at 62 C for a few minutes, sides reverted, to check if approx 60 C is exactly the thresold for the glue to instantly, completely melt.
    Or maybe it has been the prolonged 50-55 C time...
    either way, the experiment will need to be only one of the 2 scenarios.
    itsFirhan likes this.
    07-26-17 04:05 PM
  19. stlabrat's Avatar
    OP, why you cook your device? the temperature you used is equivalent to the aging test of electronics (60C). I am not sure about the K1. The LCD usually comes with spec, operation temp -10 to + 45 C I believe, with short duration of temperature >55 C... As aging process, you degraded solder joints inside the handset, microprocessor, or other devices (such as gyro, accelerometer, speaker, etc. etc.). you can check the std test condition for consumer/industry/military or aerospace... the consumer product - the handset usually does not required components capable operating at high temperature, i believe you squeesed few month of your handset life out of it if not a year... please don't do it again... (TCL or BBM do high temperature aging test, thermal cycle test, etc. as part of reliability assessment for carrier qualification, but not intend for you to do that... those test unit ually dischard after test - as end of life fault (see what kind of behavior occur at end of handset life) - it called accelerated life test... you can google it... I am so sorry you cooked your device... BAD MOVE. IMHO.
    FF22 likes this.
    07-26-17 05:38 PM
  20. whatsever's Avatar
    Thanks , nice experiment love it .
    07-26-17 05:42 PM
  21. Mercuryuser's Avatar
    I'm not convinced. I want the op to boil his keyone.
    07-26-17 05:46 PM
  22. anon(9188202)'s Avatar
    It's summer and I prefer my KEYone grilled on the BBQ with a few Apples.
    deiop likes this.
    07-26-17 06:52 PM
  23. FF22's Avatar
    I'm not convinced. I want the op to boil his keyone.
    In Mercury, no doubt.

    There's this really neat Mercury Fountain in the Joan Miro Museum in Barcelona. Designed by Calder, if I recall.
    07-26-17 09:32 PM
  24. h16's Avatar
    OP, why you cook your device? the temperature you used is equivalent to the aging test of electronics (60C). I am not sure about the K1. The LCD usually comes with spec, operation temp -10 to + 45 C I believe, with short duration of temperature >55 C... As aging process, you degraded solder joints inside the handset, microprocessor, or other devices (such as gyro, accelerometer, speaker, etc. etc.). you can check the std test condition for consumer/industry/military or aerospace... the consumer product - the handset usually does not required components capable operating at high temperature, i believe you squeesed few month of your handset life out of it if not a year... please don't do it again... (TCL or BBM do high temperature aging test, thermal cycle test, etc. as part of reliability assessment for carrier qualification, but not intend for you to do that... those test unit ually dischard after test - as end of life fault (see what kind of behavior occur at end of handset life) - it called accelerated life test... you can google it... I am so sorry you cooked your device... BAD MOVE. IMHO.
    As I've stated more than one time, 60 C has been an error, and the duration few minutes.
    I've been careful to never go beyond 55 C in the long test.

    Perhaps I've shortened the life of my K1 by some weeks/months, but I prefer knowledge and maybe an anticipation of some weeks in the next buy, over the same weeks (as the previous, in this case) inhabited by fear and constant terror of screen lifting and cable breaking.

    About TCL/BBM doing high temperature aging tests at 60 C on the K1s, they should have been completely blind, to not notice the glue melting...

    All this story of lifting screens, the vague acknowledgments by BBM about the "adhesive", has made me curious, thats all.

    As a side note, perhaps I' ve shortened by some weeks the life of my K1, but better than having suddenly the phone unfixable because of a tore cable, waiting months for a replacement, or anyway having the separated screen collecting dust into the way of the LCD layers because you're somewhere without the proper tools / repair shops to reattach the screen.
    I use a lot this phone for my work, so I need it to be reliable.

    @Mercuryuser
    About boiling... some years ago I've had the proof of a faulty pickup on my bike thanks to a pot of boiling water and an ohmmeter.
    Never underestimate the power of cooking tools!
    FF22 and itsFirhan like this.
    07-26-17 09:53 PM
  25. CBKevin's Avatar
    Please just lock these threads, they have zero useful information in them. CB Kevin did the all the real world testing we need to see. Why cook your phone?
    Yes I did all the real world testing. My first phone came apart while on this forum.

    Signed,
    Kevin
    07-26-17 10:18 PM
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