1. raggededge's Avatar
    Nice little review by the Tickerguy:

    KeyOne - Uh, Yeah in [Market-Ticker]
    Diana Melamet and knightfall like this.
    06-19-17 04:49 PM
  2. bakron1's Avatar
    Nice review and thanks for sharing.
    06-19-17 04:58 PM
  3. tickerguy's Avatar
    Thank you! :-)
    Geselskap likes this.
    06-19-17 05:05 PM
  4. Geselskap's Avatar
    "Nice review" agreed!

    Wealth of tasty bits of info. And relevant. I read the whole of it.
    06-19-17 05:31 PM
  5. Geselskap's Avatar
    @tickerguy, please share when you do decide to get a K1, or not. Will be appreciated.
    06-19-17 05:32 PM
  6. slagman5's Avatar
    I guess I'm a fool because I never use cases for any of my phones. Never shattered a single screen and sell most of my phones without a scratch on them. And all the while I got to use the phone the way it was meant to be without being overly bulky and without hiding the nice materials they were made with. Yep, I'm so foolish... :-D
    curtxxx, zephyr613, Jrox74 and 1 others like this.
    06-19-17 06:18 PM
  7. anon(4297019)'s Avatar
    Nice review and thanks for sharing.
    Did you get your KEYone yet? If not I hope it will be soon!
    06-19-17 06:26 PM
  8. tickerguy's Avatar
    @tickerguy, please share when you do decide to get a K1, or not. Will be appreciated.
    The gating factor for me is likely whether the "Verizon" model will work properly on T-Mobile (and AT&T, less of course WiFi calling.) Compatibility to jump carriers is important to me on a device that I would expect to last more than 2 years, and this would be one of those given the battery endurance. Replacement on that device would likely be driven by band additions that aren't in the phone, which ALWAYS happens but the gating date on that is probably 3+ years out.

    Since AT&T refuses to support WiFi calling and VoLTE on anything they don't sell and our government's odds of enforcement of existing law that makes this behavior quite-arguably felonious approach zero the odds of me being an AT&T customer in the future also approach zero. There are persistent rumors that Sprint and T-Mobile may merge, which adds even more of a point to the question of compatibility of the -3 model.

    Best Buy says "Verizon only", but I suspect that's not true. I'm not about to spend $550 to find out though.
    06-20-17 01:32 PM
  9. DolemiteDONS's Avatar
    [QUOTE=slagman5;12931152]I guess I'm a fool because I never use cases for any of my phones. Never shattered a single screen and sell most of my phones without a scratch on them. And all the while I got to use the phone the way it was meant to be without being overly bulky and without hiding the nice materials they were made with. Yep, I'm so foolish... :

    Haha, so am I, as this is exactly my experience as well.
    06-20-17 01:44 PM
  10. simon williams4's Avatar
    excellent review..
    06-20-17 01:58 PM
  11. zephyr613's Avatar
    I'm sorry - pretty excellent review but this is where it went off the rails for me: "Grab the phone with a paper bag wrapped around it (so there's no electrical contact with your fingers) and the problem instantly disappears."
    06-20-17 03:26 PM
  12. tickerguy's Avatar
    I guess the question Zephyr is rather simple: When you run into a reported issue are you interesting in throwing blame around and hollering or do you adopt a diagnostic approach in an attempt to get to the bottom of the report? In short do you wish to know if it's real and whether there's a viable workaround, or not?

    There is an issue. It's not really all that unexpected either once you figure out where they coupled the antenna system to the outside of the phone (necessary with a metal-framed device.) That it's coupled there on the bottom has both a logical reason (SAR emission limits) and unfortunately means that your body can change the resonance when in direct contact with it, and thus degrade the signal.

    Grabbing the phone with a bag was intended to prove up whether the issue was one of proximity (in which case you CAN'T fix it) or direct contact. It turns out it's the latter, which means putting a case on the phone should resolve it.

    Anyone who run their phones cased should not have a problem. Those who run them "naked" might, depending on how they hold it. If using a case is unacceptable and the way you hold the phone causes you problems then you're at high risk of being unhappy with reception in other than strong signal areas, considering that I was able to shift the signal strength by as much as 6dBm depending on how I held the device and made contact with the bottom sections.
    DolemiteDONS and zephyr613 like this.
    06-20-17 06:55 PM
  13. DolemiteDONS's Avatar
    I guess the question Zephyr is rather simple: When you run into a reported issue are you interesting in throwing blame around and hollering or do you adopt a diagnostic approach in an attempt to get to the bottom of the report? In short do you wish to know if it's real and whether there's a viable workaround, or not?

    There is an issue. It's not really all that unexpected either once you figure out where they coupled the antenna system to the outside of the phone (necessary with a metal-framed device.) That it's coupled there on the bottom has both a logical reason (SAR emission limits) and unfortunately means that your body can change the resonance when in direct contact with it, and thus degrade the signal.

    Grabbing the phone with a bag was intended to prove up whether the issue was one of proximity (in which case you CAN'T fix it) or direct contact. It turns out it's the latter, which means putting a case on the phone should resolve it.

    Anyone who run their phones cased should not have a problem. Those who run them "naked" might, depending on how they hold it. If using a case is unacceptable and the way you hold the phone causes you problems then you're at high risk of being unhappy with reception in other than strong signal areas, considering that I was able to shift the signal strength by as much as 6dBm depending on how I held the device and made contact with the bottom sections.
    Although I use a naked KeyONE without any hiccups, I luv your thought process. Although not with this reported issue, I've read so many instances over the past 3 weeks where immediate tantrums and blame are a preferred response, and often related to user-created scenarios.
    06-20-17 07:15 PM
  14. tickerguy's Avatar
    Don't get me wrong, this isn't a "user-created" scenario. It's a function of the fact that the phone is metal-cased, and metal is a great RF shield. So if you're going to metal-case a phone you HAVE TO couple the antenna system to the case SOMEWHERE or you have created a faraday cage and of course then nothing works.

    I understand WHY TCL did what they did -- the top would be better, since if you split the top metal (as they did the bottom) and used the two pieces as part of the resonant system people would probably *not* grab it there. But then you've just put the emitting parts of the device right up against the user's head when they hold it to their ear, and since there are LEGAL restrictions on tissue exposure (especially to the brain!) this becomes a real problem.

    So they put it on the bottom. Ok, but now if you grab the phone you *might* change the resonance and impair reception.

    I don't know what you do about this if you're a TCL RF engineer, honestly, and I don't know what sort of investigation they did on alternatives, if any. But I sure do understand the problem, having a decent background in RF.

    In any event what I found is that you shouldn't have trouble if you use a case. If you don't, you MIGHT have trouble, and if that's an issue for you there's not much you can do about it.
    zephyr613 likes this.
    06-20-17 11:47 PM
  15. mrisad's Avatar
    I guess I'm a fool because I never use cases for any of my phones. Never shattered a single screen and sell most of my phones without a scratch on them. And all the while I got to use the phone the way it was meant to be without being overly bulky and without hiding the nice materials they were made with. Yep, I'm so foolish... :-D
    You and me both man. You just have to be mindful of the phone in the vicinity. Most people I find couldn't be arsed to be mindful though, they want to use it rough. I'm probably like you in the sense that I buy and sell phones in perfect condition after use - that way we get to test and play with all the greatest tech without breaking the bank, but I think I'll be sticking with my K1 until K2 comes out.
    06-21-17 10:12 AM
  16. zephyr613's Avatar
    I guess the question Zephyr is rather simple: When you run into a reported issue are you interesting in throwing blame around and hollering or do you adopt a diagnostic approach in an attempt to get to the bottom of the report? In short do you wish to know if it's real and whether there's a viable workaround, or not?

    There is an issue. It's not really all that unexpected either once you figure out where they coupled the antenna system to the outside of the phone (necessary with a metal-framed device.) That it's coupled there on the bottom has both a logical reason (SAR emission limits) and unfortunately means that your body can change the resonance when in direct contact with it, and thus degrade the signal.

    Grabbing the phone with a bag was intended to prove up whether the issue was one of proximity (in which case you CAN'T fix it) or direct contact. It turns out it's the latter, which means putting a case on the phone should resolve it.

    Anyone who run their phones cased should not have a problem. Those who run them "naked" might, depending on how they hold it. If using a case is unacceptable and the way you hold the phone causes you problems then you're at high risk of being unhappy with reception in other than strong signal areas, considering that I was able to shift the signal strength by as much as 6dBm depending on how I held the device and made contact with the bottom sections.
    Please don't get me wrong as I would never question you, the methodology or the testing and results. I just have some serious concerns about paying over $500 for a device that we as consumers would need some sort of hermetically sealed bag (pun intended) to get better or decent reception. I do understand the limitations of placing the antennae where it is and the process of manufacturing to make the device aesthetically good looking to the eye, I just can't fathom using those design techniques at the sake of performance.
    06-21-17 10:35 AM
  17. tickerguy's Avatar
    Everything is a balance.

    I personally would have aimed for the TOP bezel for the coupled parts of the body from an RF perspective, but I suspect the reason it's on the bottom is SAR limits which are real and if you fail testing on that basis you have no device at all.

    I like metal-cased devices in the general sense; there are several metal alloys that provide materially superior strength to engineered plastics while consuming less size and, frequently, less mass. They also tend to be more durable. Metal in unavoidable places (e.g. backing for the display) creates RF issues; antenna design in modern phones is quite a feat, all things considered.

    It's not surprising at all that occasionally things like this happen -- the question is whether or not it's fatal to the device's usability. Having read people complaining I sought to figure out why it was happening (if indeed it was other than a sample flaw -- individual defective units) and whether it was easily mitigated or not.
    06-21-17 10:55 AM
  18. kbz1960's Avatar
    What about those that use a case and say they still have reception issues?
    06-21-17 11:29 AM
  19. tickerguy's Avatar
    I can only report on what I can observe and test.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-21-17 11:47 AM
  20. kbz1960's Avatar
    Got that right. Mileage may vary I suppose.
    06-21-17 12:15 PM
  21. zephyr613's Avatar
    It would be interesting to test with a rubber bumper type case around the device.
    06-21-17 02:37 PM
  22. tickerguy's Avatar
    I don't have an Incipio DualPro for THIS device but I do have one for my DTEK60 (which fit it "sort of") and with the phone in it I was not able to shift the reception quality by holding the device (as was also the case when I used a piece of paper to pick it up.)

    The DualPro is not very thick but it does provide sufficient protection so neither the screen or camera lens cover protrudes, which is IMHO "minimalist."
    06-21-17 02:49 PM
  23. tickerguy's Avatar
    BTW the person who sent me the device for review -- and who had reception problems -- just reported to me that he put a thin "silicone-style" case on his KeyOne and the reception problem problem he was having disappeared.

    Gee, fancy that....
    06-23-17 06:05 PM

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